I wouldn't have said that my caregiving of others was an issue except I have had to look at my role in the relationship with the qualifier. My caregiving of him. That is in particular the financial caregiving took ne to the point of bankruptcy. In fact my credit was ruined for over 7 years
Nevertheless despite being left all but penniless I still saw Ky caregiving as a god thing. In fact towards the end of our relationship when the qualifier stole $10,000 of mine I was stil engaging with him. But not for long....
He had no scruples about taking that money knowing I had very little
In fact up until recently I felt my concern for others was stil a good thing. I put everyone before myself. If someone said they needed something I jumped
Now when people hit ne with the #help me# manipulation I do not feel that pull. I no longer think the ground will fall out from under me if I do not step up
In fact since my main priority is myself I don't have the energy anymore to make myself last on the list
What I thought was an asset was a real deficit that contributed to great distress in my life
Lyne said
Jul 22, 2021
There are two ideas that have grown in me since my time here in program:
1. I resigned from the doormat club.
2. NO is a complete sentence.
Hugs. :)
Freetime said
Jul 22, 2021
{{{Maresie}}} and {{{Lyne}}}, I think this is such an important topic. When does my behavior cross the line from asset to liability? For me, it used to be challenging to know where the line is between helping someone else, and harming myself.
Program and sponsors have helped me. When I heard the phrase "Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm" -- that really woke me up. It made me see that burning myself up was not helping anyone.
Maresie888 said
Jul 22, 2021
I certainly had to take care of others as a child. Now I do not need to be hypervigilant in that way
It is incredibly painful to look.at being taken advantage of
That is why I now have such a fine tune for people who are abusive
Anyone who lashes out at others I.just don't have time for it bvb anymore. They may apologize but if you are an adult you have to be accountable
That accountability means sometimes you lose people.
If someone calls be names if I have the option I will never speak to them again. The trust issue went out the window
There are some issues that are irreconcilable
Now I am more conscious if I have a choice I really steer clear of anyone who us extremely angry. They may gave good reason to be angry. I am just not prepared to be around people who are out of control
They can find someone else to put up with them. The people who are out of control who I do have to deal with are kept at really serious arms length
Maresie
DM2021 said
Jul 22, 2021
Maresie and FT {{HUGS}}
So grateful to Al-Anon!!!
Iamhere said
Jul 22, 2021
Great topic - thank you Maresie and all for your input and shares. I to have resigned from the doormat team and love that Al-Anon taught me that No (and Yes) are complete sentences.
In my world where I am in 2 recovery programs and have a large family active in this disease, I've had to get 'smart' about how I 'give' to others. My boundaries are smart and help me greatly. Detaching is pure gold for me when the insanity happens and it will always happen just by the nature of who I am and how my life unfolds. What has also been really important for me is to allow the other to define how I can be of service. In other words, open ended 'giving' is no longer on my menu for others.
When another is forced to consider what they think I can do in support, it gives me clarity for using Yes and No. Enabling an A to me is vastly different than being a care-giver...I suppose it's all about how we define the terms and expectations...
a4l said
Jul 22, 2021
Hugs Maresie. I can definitely relate to having my kindness exploited. And realising well after what had happened and then feeling angry and hurt by it. What I learned here in programme was to make amends to myself first and foremost. Step 4 work regarding deficits, well Betty taught me a 4th step was one of kindness not self shaming. Assets and gratitude was how we'd start. She left us a lot of good stuff; I myself am going back through a lot of it now for it's practical wisdom. What I have come to understand around giving is that there are two types of people I can give to. Those who take and those who receive. There's a difference between the two. Taking is a one way street. Receiving always has a tangible gratitude given back in response to the giving. Today I know it is safe for me to give only to those who know how to receive.
Maresie888 said
Aug 1, 2021
I had an issue this weekbwuth someone just blowing up my boundaries. Then they apologized.
When it comes to adults especially in any adult situation the standard of behavior is way off .
Thete are certain people who are narcissists who feel blowing up people's boundaries is their right on a daily basis
That is what I grew up with people who.trampled and bullied others. Bullying comes in many forms. Don't get what they want they are capable of being extremely vindictive
Then they have this infuriating idea that saying #sorry# means something when they say it daily
If people who lash out any time they feel like it keep doing it they are not sorry ..
The irony is that this person said #I want to do what I want#
That pretty much sums up a narcissist. They hurt people deliberately then they act sorry. Hiwever they are not remotely sorry because they lash out in a second. They are just calling the shots
How many years I put up with spiteful vengeful people who thought they could dress up treating other people like dirt
Being respectful is not in their vocabulary
There are certain people when set a boundary they respond by acting:
A) Like a victim #what do you want from me' how about go dump on someone else
B) Like a bull in a China shop or a pitbull they charge through your boundaries
C) Like they live in a Princess world where everything Iis forgivable. One minute it is you #are the greatest# next minute it is you are totally discarded. They treat people like toys
Narcissists are also of course immensely charming. However they have to take up every ounce of oxygen in the room.
Let it begin with me is their mantra because there is no other #me# Every thing is theirs every diagnosis, every problem, every idea, every thought arises solely from them. No one else exists. Whatever you have next minute they have too. If you come up with a rare disease next minute they have it too. Abd they were diagnosed by a fluke years ago. How uncanny
Either they are the greatest or the worst victim. They are never a worker among workers. In fact they spend their whole lives trying to figure out how to get #over#. How can I get someone to do my job and take credit for it.
I have had to look long and hard at my association with such people. I don't want to be around people who.are the #greatest# one minute and the biggest victim the next. I don't have the band width for that any more. They are simply not worth my time or energy.
So I.have to choose carefully how I respond when I respond and what my limits are. My limits are all about my recovery
The irony is I like normality. I like being away from chaos and most of all I value my serenity
Narcissists are good at acting #as if# they have a life
In fact they don't have a shred of morality in their soul and they are incapable of being authentic on any level whatsoever
They are experts at #pretending#
I no longer #pretend# in my life. I live it one day at a time
I wouldn't have said that my caregiving of others was an issue except I have had to look at my role in the relationship with the qualifier. My caregiving of him. That is in particular the financial caregiving took ne to the point of bankruptcy. In fact my credit was ruined for over 7 years
Nevertheless despite being left all but penniless I still saw Ky caregiving as a god thing. In fact towards the end of our relationship when the qualifier stole $10,000 of mine I was stil engaging with him. But not for long....
He had no scruples about taking that money knowing I had very little
In fact up until recently I felt my concern for others was stil a good thing. I put everyone before myself. If someone said they needed something I jumped
Now when people hit ne with the #help me# manipulation I do not feel that pull. I no longer think the ground will fall out from under me if I do not step up
In fact since my main priority is myself I don't have the energy anymore to make myself last on the list
What I thought was an asset was a real deficit that contributed to great distress in my life
1. I resigned from the doormat club.
2. NO is a complete sentence.
Hugs. :)
Program and sponsors have helped me. When I heard the phrase "Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm" -- that really woke me up. It made me see that burning myself up was not helping anyone.
It is incredibly painful to look.at being taken advantage of
That is why I now have such a fine tune for people who are abusive
Anyone who lashes out at others I.just don't have time for it bvb anymore. They may apologize but if you are an adult you have to be accountable
That accountability means sometimes you lose people.
If someone calls be names if I have the option I will never speak to them again. The trust issue went out the window
There are some issues that are irreconcilable
Now I am more conscious if I have a choice I really steer clear of anyone who us extremely angry. They may gave good reason to be angry. I am just not prepared to be around people who are out of control
They can find someone else to put up with them. The people who are out of control who I do have to deal with are kept at really serious arms length
Maresie
So grateful to Al-Anon!!!
In my world where I am in 2 recovery programs and have a large family active in this disease, I've had to get 'smart' about how I 'give' to others. My boundaries are smart and help me greatly. Detaching is pure gold for me when the insanity happens and it will always happen just by the nature of who I am and how my life unfolds. What has also been really important for me is to allow the other to define how I can be of service. In other words, open ended 'giving' is no longer on my menu for others.
When another is forced to consider what they think I can do in support, it gives me clarity for using Yes and No. Enabling an A to me is vastly different than being a care-giver...I suppose it's all about how we define the terms and expectations...
I had an issue this weekbwuth someone just blowing up my boundaries. Then they apologized.
When it comes to adults especially in any adult situation the standard of behavior is way off .
Thete are certain people who are narcissists who feel blowing up people's boundaries is their right on a daily basis
That is what I grew up with people who.trampled and bullied others. Bullying comes in many forms. Don't get what they want they are capable of being extremely vindictive
Then they have this infuriating idea that saying #sorry# means something when they say it daily
If people who lash out any time they feel like it keep doing it they are not sorry ..
The irony is that this person said #I want to do what I want#
That pretty much sums up a narcissist. They hurt people deliberately then they act sorry. Hiwever they are not remotely sorry because they lash out in a second. They are just calling the shots
How many years I put up with spiteful vengeful people who thought they could dress up treating other people like dirt
Being respectful is not in their vocabulary
There are certain people when set a boundary they respond by acting:
A) Like a victim #what do you want from me' how about go dump on someone else
B) Like a bull in a China shop or a pitbull they charge through your boundaries
C) Like they live in a Princess world where everything Iis forgivable. One minute it is you #are the greatest# next minute it is you are totally discarded. They treat people like toys
Narcissists are also of course immensely charming. However they have to take up every ounce of oxygen in the room.
Let it begin with me is their mantra because there is no other #me# Every thing is theirs every diagnosis, every problem, every idea, every thought arises solely from them. No one else exists. Whatever you have next minute they have too. If you come up with a rare disease next minute they have it too. Abd they were diagnosed by a fluke years ago. How uncanny
Either they are the greatest or the worst victim. They are never a worker among workers. In fact they spend their whole lives trying to figure out how to get #over#. How can I get someone to do my job and take credit for it.
I have had to look long and hard at my association with such people. I don't want to be around people who.are the #greatest# one minute and the biggest victim the next. I don't have the band width for that any more. They are simply not worth my time or energy.
So I.have to choose carefully how I respond when I respond and what my limits are. My limits are all about my recovery
The irony is I like normality. I like being away from chaos and most of all I value my serenity
Narcissists are good at acting #as if# they have a life
In fact they don't have a shred of morality in their soul and they are incapable of being authentic on any level whatsoever
They are experts at #pretending#
I no longer #pretend# in my life. I live it one day at a time
Maresie