I found this reading for Monday, 7/5, to be of interest. Its looking at the As treatment from the non-alcoholic, recognizing that the A is in a vulnerable position. The A is often on guard realizing they bring trouble to the family, and that also leaves the A open to criticism. The writer says the A is often lashing themself all the time, and suggests that we non As not add to it.
Reminder: I will try to understand how desperately the alcoholic suffers from guilt. I will not yield to the impulse to kick him when he is down. We both suffer in different ways from the alcoholism. I, who have Gods gift of sobriety, must be the one to realize his dissatisfaction with himself, no matter how defiant and defensive he may appear.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am guilty of treating my A very poorly before program, and for the first few years of program. I was so hurt, angry, resentful, disappointed, etc., that I was trying to force solutions and stop the destruction of the marriage. It took me a couple years to develop pausing, thinking, compassion, letting go and letting God, etc. And the ironic part is that since I have truly stopped all my negative behaviors towards my A, I see progress happening with my spouse. I also have made amends to my A, for my hurtful behaviors, both times I have done the steps. The first time I made amends I did it more for my sponsor perhaps, but the second time I really got how awful I was some of the time. I try now to use actions and behaviors that bring me self-respect. Hurting others hurts me. Its not part of who I want to be.
Freetime said
Jul 4, 2021
Lyne, thank you for this share and for your service. I think kindness and empathy are certainly called for when dealing with my loved ones -- alcoholic or not. I am sure that is how a loving higher power would want me to behave.
It was very hard to find that kindness when there was active alcoholism in my loved one. Sometimes I was able to fake it. After my pain was reduced by coming to Al-Anon, it was a bit easier to act with some true compassion.
There is a very interesting point in this reading. It says, "If you apply more lashes [anger], you're inviting him to transfer some of his guilt to you. This can keep him from reaching his bottom..." I certainly experienced this when my anger came out at my loved one. It did not change him, it just splashed back onto me.
Lyne, I think what you wrote is so true -- hurting others hurts me. And that's definitely not who I want to be.
a4l said
Jul 4, 2021
Thank you for your service Lyne and the shares above. Sometimes I wonder in exasperation if these topics and suggestions will ever cease to have relevance for me! I have a case of the irritated poor me's at the moment over the As in my life. Even as I have moved on to a new phiolosphy or am at least checking it out spiritually speaking, I get so frustrated. My new paradigm is around vibration, and shifting out of old ones and into new ones or at least trying very hard to. I feel stuck and tethered by the alcoholic vibration. I'm not sure if I kick them when they are down as per the reading. But i find it very hard to withhold my irritation. I hate this disease. I hate it. Just for today I will try to remember compassion and understanding for the A's.
mamalioness said
Jul 4, 2021
Lyne
Thank you for your share and your service. My alcoholic brother called me tonight, full of guilt and recriminations because he doesnt keep in touch with me and I had to keep telling him over and over that I am not angry with him that I am not mad and that I do not hate him and to please take it easy on himself because I practice the art of detachment with lots of love so no worries, just call me when you can and I had to spend about 15 minutes convincing him that I was not mad and that I did not hate him and that I was Glad he was OK. they beat themselves up enough. I was not going to add to it
DavidG said
Jul 4, 2021
Thanks Lyne, Freetime, Mama and A41 ...
From the get-go I found it easier to blame the disease. The anger and the hurt and the pain.
I had no need to know the exact nature of the disease. I did not try to fix it. Other emotions
took the place of the old ones. Joy and gratitude. Moments of happiness, anyway. Gratitude.
Bbrave said
Jul 5, 2021
Thank you, Lyne, for sharing this reading and your ESH. I have so much compassion for my AH...until he hurts ME! Then I pull out all my weapons. I want to make sure he is hurt as badly or worse than I am hurting. YIKES - not a great recipe for sane living or marriage for that matter. I know the unfairness of it all comes down to the disease....I know this! Today I will look for more compassion in my own heart (for both of us, no matter what the circumstances).
I will, I will, I will (with my HPs help)!
PosiesandPuppies said
Jul 5, 2021
Thank you Lyne for your service.
What wonderful shares from all!
I am here to say that sometimes, true compassion cannot be forced. For me, it didn't happen until I was away from the chaos... the constant negative consequences. But it was important at the time, for me to remind myself daily that no one starts off wanting to be controlled/consumed by addictions. The reading in this post was a good reminder that the addicted person already "lashes out" at themselves, and we - as non-addicted loved ones - can try and find compassion. This was not easy for me while living with my qualifier. I am not a perfect person, nor did I always "behave in the Al-Anon way."
Today I can find compassion and dare I say, even love my qualifier from afar. It is what I chose, and It is what works for me.
Today is a rare day off for me! So I am going to find my Joy and bask in it!! I hope you do too!
&
Daffodils said
Jul 5, 2021
Thank you Lyne for your service/ ESH and all the enlightening shares. Thankfully, I have arrived at a place where I don't beat myself up too much for my actions prior to Al-Anon. Each day I take an action to put values such as kindness and compassion into practice (rather than just paying lipservice to them). The more effort I put into Step 4, the easier it becomes to accept my A and focus more on his good qualities. The occurrences of damaging thoughts, words and deeds on my part are less frequent. It's a slow process, but I'm glad to be moving in the right direction.
Have a wonderful day.
Enigmatic said
Jul 6, 2021
Powerful page, thank you for your service and the shares above.
When I look honestly, I 'lash' when I have elevated myself to a judgement position, a role fit for a higher power only. I forget my place and condition: equal.
Alanon principles, when used, help me see myself in others: the fear, defensiveness, loss of serenity, and the opportunity I have to contribute to the solution rather than fuel the meltdown.
JerryF said
Jul 6, 2021
Enigmatic wrote:
Powerful page, thank you for your service and the shares above.
When I look honestly, I 'lash' when I have elevated myself to a judgement position, a role fit for a higher power only. I forget my place and condition: equal.
Alanon principles, when used, help me see myself in others: the fear, defensiveness, loss of serenity, and the opportunity I have to contribute to the solution rather than fuel the meltdown.
-- Edited by JerryF on Tuesday 6th of July 2021 11:37:08 AM
JerryF said
Jul 6, 2021
I guess this is very good enough yet the reply I authored and thought I had sent fully disappeared. Might be it is/was a better amends to my alcoholic/addict than I had made years ago. I am grateful Higher Power intervened and she is still alive. Keep coming back Family. ((((Hugs))))
Maresie888 said
Jul 6, 2021
My focus was on trying to find out ways to make the qualifier feel better. That did not helo.me .
When I fivused on attending to myself ny life got better .
Certainly in my current struggles with co workers and supervisors ny ficus cannot be in them. My ficus had tone on myself
Indeed in some ways for ne being comoassionate to the alcoholic is taking the bait. Therefore taking the bait Ibngafed in unreasonable expectations. Those expectations got me in a lot of trouble.
So my current mandate with myself is to take care of myself FIRST. The qualifier felt that my taking care of myself was some form of withholding from him.
Certain codependency experts state that not permitting others to tahe responsibility for themselves is out of line m.
#guilting# is certainly a phenomenal manipulation technique. The more I understand how the alcoholic #guilred# me the more I understand how few boundaries I had
Seahorse7 said
Jul 6, 2021
Thank you. I needed to hear this. I carry so much resentment I keep it bottled up to avoid ugliness. Every weekend the AH drinks, and it affects me in so many ways. So hard not to speak with anger about it. It stays inside me and festers. But AH must surely be able to sense it even though I say nothing. I will strive to balance compassion for him with caring for myself. Not sure what to do with the overwhelming sadness about it though. I have a lot to think about.
JerryF said
Jul 6, 2021
What finally helped me the most was adding an experience sponsor to my recovery and then listening, listening, listening and then, practicing a lot whether it seemed I would be getting my way or not.
My best sponsor before he passed away use to question me about how I felt about how my actions were getting me and he use to preface the questions with asking for "honesty". He had solid recovery so I knew I couldn't put anything by him. He had solid recovery and I did not yet. Our sessions were growth sessions and he welcomed questions from me also. He would respond as he wanted me to. Thank you God.
He taught me "Honest Recovery" and I still practice the method. I treated my alcoholic/addict as I would like to be treated. I wasn't hard it was loving over time.
Keep coming back this works when we work it.
Maresie888 said
Jul 7, 2021
My obsession with helping others was certainly how I got to survive my childhood. After all to deflect aggression if you start being emphatic and kind to the a sort they generally back off .
So now I have had to lay down the mantle of kind giving always available person. I do that by subtle means. That doesn't mean that I am rude or obnoxious. I just do not pick up the bait
Someone with an addiction is no longer my work project I am certainly nice and kind to my neighbors but I do not assume roles for them
I am also very boundaried with my co workers. That doesn't mean I am not empathic
It is just these days my primary empathy is for me . It is for my goals. I have to meet them. It is for my needs i cannot subjugate them any more. Most of all it is about my resentment. If someone is acting out around me it is essential I monitor my resentment level. It I'd esential I monitor my boundaries and most of all it is essential I monitor my self soothing
I can most cetainly understand why I became this person who was all giving. Now I have to change that persona
Boundaries are experienced by some people like a red flag so then I have had to find other ways to be less confrontational about them
No can be said in many many subtle ways No does not have to be a round by round fight. No can become the sole focal point of my life. My focal point is myself No I am not going to answer the phone when I am sleeping No I am not going to help someone if it means hurting me (not of I can help it) No I no longer need to be polite to rude obnoxious people. They can be rude and obnoxious without me .
-- Edited by Maresie888 on Wednesday 7th of July 2021 12:30:43 PM
a4l said
Jul 10, 2021
Belated Thanks for the share re: lashing. Humility strikes again. Not to be confused with the fire and brimstone version of old religious doctrine where shame is a necessary companion. I have definitely gotten caught up in myself lately. Frustrated with what I see as straightforward: If life sucks change it. Not everyone can. Sigh. I'm still human.
I found this reading for Monday, 7/5, to be of interest. Its looking at the As treatment from the non-alcoholic, recognizing that the A is in a vulnerable position. The A is often on guard realizing they bring trouble to the family, and that also leaves the A open to criticism. The writer says the A is often lashing themself all the time, and suggests that we non As not add to it.
Reminder: I will try to understand how desperately the alcoholic suffers from guilt. I will not yield to the impulse to kick him when he is down. We both suffer in different ways from the alcoholism. I, who have Gods gift of sobriety, must be the one to realize his dissatisfaction with himself, no matter how defiant and defensive he may appear.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am guilty of treating my A very poorly before program, and for the first few years of program. I was so hurt, angry, resentful, disappointed, etc., that I was trying to force solutions and stop the destruction of the marriage. It took me a couple years to develop pausing, thinking, compassion, letting go and letting God, etc. And the ironic part is that since I have truly stopped all my negative behaviors towards my A, I see progress happening with my spouse. I also have made amends to my A, for my hurtful behaviors, both times I have done the steps. The first time I made amends I did it more for my sponsor perhaps, but the second time I really got how awful I was some of the time. I try now to use actions and behaviors that bring me self-respect. Hurting others hurts me. Its not part of who I want to be.
It was very hard to find that kindness when there was active alcoholism in my loved one. Sometimes I was able to fake it. After my pain was reduced by coming to Al-Anon, it was a bit easier to act with some true compassion.
There is a very interesting point in this reading. It says, "If you apply more lashes [anger], you're inviting him to transfer some of his guilt to you. This can keep him from reaching his bottom..." I certainly experienced this when my anger came out at my loved one. It did not change him, it just splashed back onto me.
Lyne, I think what you wrote is so true -- hurting others hurts me. And that's definitely not who I want to be.
Thank you for your share and your service. My alcoholic brother called me tonight, full of guilt and recriminations because he doesnt keep in touch with me and I had to keep telling him over and over that I am not angry with him that I am not mad and that I do not hate him and to please take it easy on himself because I practice the art of detachment with lots of love so no worries, just call me when you can and I had to spend about 15 minutes convincing him that I was not mad and that I did not hate him and that I was Glad he was OK. they beat themselves up enough. I was not going to add to it
From the get-go I found it easier to blame the disease. The anger and the hurt and the pain.
I had no need to know the exact nature of the disease. I did not try to fix it. Other emotions
took the place of the old ones. Joy and gratitude. Moments of happiness, anyway. Gratitude.
Thank you, Lyne, for sharing this reading and your ESH. I have so much compassion for my AH...until he hurts ME! Then I pull out all my weapons. I want to make sure he is hurt as badly or worse than I am hurting. YIKES - not a great recipe for sane living or marriage for that matter. I know the unfairness of it all comes down to the disease....I know this! Today I will look for more compassion in my own heart (for both of us, no matter what the circumstances).
I will, I will, I will (with my HPs help)!
Thank you Lyne for your service.
& 
What wonderful shares from all!
I am here to say that sometimes, true compassion cannot be forced. For me, it didn't happen until I was away from the chaos... the constant negative consequences. But it was important at the time, for me to remind myself daily that no one starts off wanting to be controlled/consumed by addictions. The reading in this post was a good reminder that the addicted person already "lashes out" at themselves, and we - as non-addicted loved ones - can try and find compassion. This was not easy for me while living with my qualifier. I am not a perfect person, nor did I always "behave in the Al-Anon way."
Today I can find compassion and dare I say, even love my qualifier from afar. It is what I chose, and It is what works for me.
Today is a rare day off for me! So I am going to find my Joy and bask in it!! I hope you do too!
When I look honestly, I 'lash' when I have elevated myself to a judgement position, a role fit for a higher power only. I forget my place and condition: equal.
Alanon principles, when used, help me see myself in others: the fear, defensiveness, loss of serenity, and the opportunity I have to contribute to the solution rather than fuel the meltdown.
-- Edited by JerryF on Tuesday 6th of July 2021 11:37:08 AM
I guess this is very good enough yet the reply I authored and thought I had sent fully disappeared. Might be it is/was a better amends to my alcoholic/addict than I had made years ago. I am grateful Higher Power intervened and she is still alive. Keep coming back Family. ((((Hugs))))
My focus was on trying to find out ways to make the qualifier feel better. That did not helo.me .
When I fivused on attending to myself ny life got better .
Certainly in my current struggles with co workers and supervisors ny ficus cannot be in them. My ficus had tone on myself
Indeed in some ways for ne being comoassionate to the alcoholic is taking the bait. Therefore taking the bait Ibngafed in unreasonable expectations. Those expectations got me in a lot of trouble.
So my current mandate with myself is to take care of myself FIRST. The qualifier felt that my taking care of myself was some form of withholding from him.
Certain codependency experts state that not permitting others to tahe responsibility for themselves is out of line m.
#guilting# is certainly a phenomenal manipulation technique. The more I understand how the alcoholic #guilred# me the more I understand how few boundaries I had
What finally helped me the most was adding an experience sponsor to my recovery and then listening, listening, listening and then, practicing a lot whether it seemed I would be getting my way or not.
My best sponsor before he passed away use to question me about how I felt about how my actions were getting me and he use to preface the questions with asking for "honesty". He had solid recovery so I knew I couldn't put anything by him. He had solid recovery and I did not yet. Our sessions were growth sessions and he welcomed questions from me also. He would respond as he wanted me to. Thank you God.
He taught me "Honest Recovery" and I still practice the method. I treated my alcoholic/addict as I would like to be treated. I wasn't hard it was loving over time.
Keep coming back this works when we work it.
My obsession with helping others was certainly how I got to survive my childhood. After all to deflect aggression if you start being emphatic and kind to the a sort they generally back off .
So now I have had to lay down the mantle of kind giving always available person. I do that by subtle means. That doesn't mean that I am rude or obnoxious. I just do not pick up the bait
Someone with an addiction is no longer my work project
I am certainly nice and kind to my neighbors but I do not assume roles for them
I am also very boundaried with my co workers. That doesn't mean I am not empathic
It is just these days my primary empathy is for me .
It is for my goals. I have to meet them. It is for my needs i cannot subjugate them any more.
Most of all it is about my resentment. If someone is acting out around me it is essential I monitor my resentment level. It I'd esential I monitor my boundaries and most of all it is essential I monitor my self soothing
I can most cetainly understand why I became this person who was all giving. Now I have to change that persona
Boundaries are experienced by some people like a red flag so then I have had to find other ways to be less confrontational about them
No can be said in many many subtle ways
No does not have to be a round by round fight.
No can become the sole focal point of my life. My focal point is myself
No I am not going to answer the phone when I am sleeping
No I am not going to help someone if it means hurting me (not of I can help it)
No I no longer need to be polite to rude obnoxious people. They can be rude and obnoxious without me .
-- Edited by Maresie888 on Wednesday 7th of July 2021 12:30:43 PM