As you all know whenever I have an opportunity I try to go to classes on recovery
I have always struggled with boundaries because of course there were none in my family of origin. Thete were no.boundaryes to protect me and my siblings
One of the core issues in my family of origin across the board is enmeshment
That is there was a lack of differentiation between mother/daughter/siblings. Therefore my mother didn't always identify herself as a mother but often acted like a competitor. Needs of course were a real problem in my family of origin. That is why when I as seriously sick in the hospital my family resented me tremendously. Thete was no capacity for empathy. Moreover the relationship between my mother and my older sibling was completely reversed. My elder sister assuming many of the adult roles in the family which needless to say she exploited
This model of seeing everyone as an extension of self has been disastrous for me. When the qualifier blamed me for everything I assumed the blame. After all I was seen as an extension of him. When I have encountered people struggling I felt it was my duty to help them even when it hurt me. There were no limits to the qualifiers expectations. After s number of years he recently contacted me because of course he had no sense of time or propriety. I simply did not answer the call. I have not seen or heard from him in years. He has absolutely no capacity for empathy at all.
When there were issues at my job. I stepped up without regard to my personal limits. After all as we were all viewe as extensions of each other where were my limits
So therefore in enmeshment everything is my responsibility and there is no personal responsibility
One of my neighbors has over the past few years always insisted nothing was her fault that is because there is no #I # in the equation. She only exists within an enmeshed arrangement.
Needless to say trying to hold my neighbor accountable is certainly impossible
Nothing is her fault and she denies any personal responsibility whatsoever.
I have certainly been in enmeshed relationships ny while life. My entire family is thoroughly enmeshed. Staying innanymof their homes is an impossibility because of the sbject chaos that is there is
They can of course function on certain levels
The hard thing of course is that being codependent in certain settings was welcomed. Certainly never saying no went down real well at work. It certainly had an endearing quality in a relationship I would do far beyond any reasonable expectation
Going to any lengths for myself is a new phenomenon. It is hard going. However my new light bulb moment about enmeshmebt has helped me immensely. I.believe it has also enabled me to forgive myself for not knowing any other way of being
I look forward to hearing your thoughts
Maresie
-- Edited by Maresie888 on Tuesday 15th of June 2021 05:07:44 PM
-- Edited by Maresie888 on Tuesday 15th of June 2021 05:18:18 PM
DavidG said
Jun 15, 2021
From enmeshment to re-traumatisation is the story of my life, Maresie.
Right in the here and now- being present is a good possie. ...
I did not know what boundaries were, let alone what they were about!
So I think we create them ourselves- through rituals of encounter.
[I think we just summon these up- and make them up, as we go along!]
I go along with ACA too. Set piece groups- with a fixed schedule- and an egg timer on the table
serve well to uplift information. But i really think that we could create time and space to swap notes
and to share ESH. And we do need some sort of formula to enter into this safe arena, and also to exit it.
Enmeshment, gaslighting, asian whispers. And even worse bullying. Are horrible things- far worse than
annoying. More like destroying. I was the oldest of five sibs.
Maresie888 said
Jun 15, 2021
David. I.am grateful that right now on this site we can discuss issues outside conference approved literature
I am most certainly not in a place where I can say what will facilitate boundaries
As I have disclosed I had a boyfriend who was extremely active in AA. No amount of meetings changed his enmeshed family
No amount of meetings persuaded him to address many issues. Yet he stayed sober. He was viewed by many in AA as a great success story. In some ways he was but he was not at all empathic which is an essential for me.
Moving to a place where one addresses codependency is not an easy task. Codependency including intense #fawning,# behaviors feel the norm for certain people. So does boundarylessness. Fawning is indeed all they know and it feels pretty okay to them. They view fawning as an asset rather than a merging of boundaries.
I once worked at a movie theater. One of the programs we had about the origin of AA. The entire recovery community descended onto the theater. Certain sponsors brought an enormous amount of sponsor's. Therefore we are talking about people with long term sobriety. They all had tickets that were all over the place
I worked at that theater for 5 years. I encountered numerous groups of people there. By and large this group from AA were the most dysfunctional I have ever encountered. They could not organize a system where they got together beforehand
The idea of who had what ticket and how to get itntonthem was seen as a crisis and an emergency. Their exoectations of staff were completely off the wall. In other words they had very little organization.
On reflection I don't know where I got the expectations from that certain people in recovery will want to grow and develop
For some of them not drinking was the only.boundary
Needless to say after that chaotic encounter my boss never showed another recovery film again.
I am sure there are many people in recovery that grow and excel. I have met many.of them
However for many people including my own family becoming inenmeshed is never a goal.
Maresie
-- Edited by Maresie888 on Tuesday 15th of June 2021 07:16:51 PM
SunnyFrogs said
Jun 16, 2021
AH's family is so enmeshed I can hardly bear to be around any of them if I'm totally honest.
And my own FOO, an alcoholic father and a pill addicted mother,well of course there wasn't such a thing as boundaries.
Needless to say AH and I together is like a tornado of chaos and drama. But hopefully with hard work on myself things can change.
Maresie888 said
Jun 17, 2021
Sunnyfrogs
I think the issue is enmeshment felt normal to me. Being an extension of another person was interpreted by me as #love,#
When we love we give but do not get.
I have a far clearer idea of my boundaries. I most certainly had that
The irony of course is being enmeshed hurt. Inwas desperately lonely . I felt completely hollow
As you all know whenever I have an opportunity I try to go to classes on recovery
I have always struggled with boundaries because of course there were none in my family of origin. Thete were no.boundaryes to protect me and my siblings
One of the core issues in my family of origin across the board is enmeshment
That is there was a lack of differentiation between mother/daughter/siblings. Therefore my mother didn't always identify herself as a mother but often acted like a competitor. Needs of course were a real problem in my family of origin. That is why when I as seriously sick in the hospital my family resented me tremendously. Thete was no capacity for empathy. Moreover the relationship between my mother and my older sibling was completely reversed. My elder sister assuming many of the adult roles in the family which needless to say she exploited
This model of seeing everyone as an extension of self has been disastrous for me. When the qualifier blamed me for everything I assumed the blame. After all I was seen as an extension of him. When I have encountered people struggling I felt it was my duty to help them even when it hurt me. There were no limits to the qualifiers expectations. After s number of years he recently contacted me because of course he had no sense of time or propriety. I simply did not answer the call. I have not seen or heard from him in years. He has absolutely no capacity for empathy at all.
When there were issues at my job. I stepped up without regard to my personal limits. After all as we were all viewe as extensions of each other where were my limits
So therefore in enmeshment everything is my responsibility and there is no personal responsibility
One of my neighbors has over the past few years always insisted nothing was her fault that is because there is no #I # in the equation. She only exists within an enmeshed arrangement.
Needless to say trying to hold my neighbor accountable is certainly impossible
Nothing is her fault and she denies any personal responsibility whatsoever.
I have certainly been in enmeshed relationships ny while life. My entire family is thoroughly enmeshed. Staying innanymof their homes is an impossibility because of the sbject chaos that is there is
They can of course function on certain levels
The hard thing of course is that being codependent in certain settings was welcomed. Certainly never saying no went down real well at work. It certainly had an endearing quality in a relationship I would do far beyond any reasonable expectation
Going to any lengths for myself is a new phenomenon. It is hard going. However my new light bulb moment about enmeshmebt has helped me immensely. I.believe it has also enabled me to forgive myself for not knowing any other way of being
I look forward to hearing your thoughts
Maresie
-- Edited by Maresie888 on Tuesday 15th of June 2021 05:07:44 PM
-- Edited by Maresie888 on Tuesday 15th of June 2021 05:18:18 PM
Right in the here and now- being present is a good possie.
...
I did not know what boundaries were, let alone what they were about!
So I think we create them ourselves- through rituals of encounter.
[I think we just summon these up- and make them up, as we go along!]
I go along with ACA too. Set piece groups- with a fixed schedule- and an egg timer on the table
serve well to uplift information. But i really think that we could create time and space to swap notes
and to share ESH. And we do need some sort of formula to enter into this safe arena, and also to exit it.
Enmeshment, gaslighting, asian whispers. And even worse bullying. Are horrible things- far worse than
annoying. More like destroying. I was the oldest of five sibs.
David. I.am grateful that right now on this site we can discuss issues outside conference approved literature
I am most certainly not in a place where I can say what will facilitate boundaries
As I have disclosed I had a boyfriend who was extremely active in AA. No amount of meetings changed his enmeshed family
No amount of meetings persuaded him to address many issues. Yet he stayed sober. He was viewed by many in AA as a great success story. In some ways he was but he was not at all empathic which is an essential for me.
Moving to a place where one addresses codependency is not an easy task. Codependency including intense #fawning,# behaviors feel the norm for certain people. So does boundarylessness. Fawning is indeed all they know and it feels pretty okay to them. They view fawning as an asset rather than a merging of boundaries.
I once worked at a movie theater. One of the programs we had about the origin of AA. The entire recovery community descended onto the theater. Certain sponsors brought an enormous amount of sponsor's. Therefore we are talking about people with long term sobriety. They all had tickets that were all over the place
I worked at that theater for 5 years. I encountered numerous groups of people there. By and large this group from AA were the most dysfunctional I have ever encountered. They could not organize a system where they got together beforehand
The idea of who had what ticket and how to get itntonthem was seen as a crisis and an emergency. Their exoectations of staff were completely off the wall. In other words they had very little organization.
On reflection I don't know where I got the expectations from that certain people in recovery will want to grow and develop
For some of them not drinking was the only.boundary
Needless to say after that chaotic encounter my boss never showed another recovery film again.
I am sure there are many people in recovery that grow and excel. I have met many.of them
However for many people including my own family becoming inenmeshed is never a goal.
Maresie
-- Edited by Maresie888 on Tuesday 15th of June 2021 07:16:51 PM
And my own FOO, an alcoholic father and a pill addicted mother,well of course there wasn't such a thing as boundaries.
Needless to say AH and I together is like a tornado of chaos and drama. But hopefully with hard work on myself things can change.
Sunnyfrogs
I think the issue is enmeshment felt normal to me. Being an extension of another person was interpreted by me as #love,#
When we love we give but do not get.
I have a far clearer idea of my boundaries. I most certainly had that
The irony of course is being enmeshed hurt. Inwas desperately lonely . I felt completely hollow
Maresie