In the reading for Monday, 5/31, the author questions whether we should create a crisis for the alcoholic to help them come to their senses? They go on to say this idea is misunderstood and wrongly applied. They say further that it is not our job to interfere with the drinkers activities, plan pitfalls, or punish, thinking it is for their own good. It is not our job to decide what is for anyone elses goodwe must leave that to HP. Instead, it is suggested that our role is to allow the inevitable consequences and not try to prevent them. Part of the quote says: Scheming to outwit the addicted person is doomed to failure.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Had I read this page when I was new to alanon I would have thought, well you just dont know my A! Oh did I run interference anyway and anytime I could. Did I mention my A was drinking and driving? That was probably the hardest part at all, since it involved the health and safety of other people. And it could (and often does) have a deadly outcome. It took me some time to Live and let live and let go and let God. Im not exactly sure when this particular behavior of my As slowed down and stopped, because surely the drinking went on for some time. But all my attempts to stop, prohibit, force solutions, etc., only made me a mental wreck. I needed my sponsor, and this board, and my F2F meetings, and eventually it all made sense. What is that sayingtime takes time.
Debb said
May 30, 2021
Thank you Lyne for your service, reading and ESH!
I can remember trying to impress upon AH that his drinking was causing this verbally abusive chaos that was driving
me out of the marriage and of course it was met with not only indifference but with distain that how dare I suggest
that there was a problem. I learned very quickly why I should not do that ever again and why I got the response
that I did. Very grateful to Al-Anon/MIP/HP!
JerryF said
May 30, 2021
I have no doubt today that this program works and works very well after reading the ESH of the fellowship as they express it having happened whether the outcomes were/are positive or negative. I don't know how things are supposed to or will come out unless I stay within and on top of the program as it is offered me to work.
I was and am still impressed how errored I was about my part in it and how it was coming about. I was and still could be so wrong. My thinking was so very far away from how it was supposed to be and come out.
I remembered coming to the awareness that I was living within miracles for the alcoholic/addict and for the family and myself. Truly I didn't know and didn't know that I didn't know and should then rely upon acceptance on my part on how life was coming out. I was sooo wrong and that was a miracle for her and for me and for others involved. Leave it alone Jerry!! and my prayer to my Higher Power simply became "Place me where YOU want me...Tell me what to do." I have learned to act upon and behave what I am being told. By doing this I discovered I was actually loving my Alcoholic/Addict and every one else affected. I learned to smile and be supportive and be a therapist without taking the opportunity for telling others what to do. I learned how to make suggestions and then later ask the question, "So how did that come out for you"? We experience peace of mind and serenity which is evidence that I was getting sane and healing.
This program works for me and while at times I experience failure the experience alone examples that the program is working.
Keep on keeping on and passing your experiences back to the fellowship. That is how recovery gets to work; especially for this member. Thanks for letting me share. ((((Hugs))))
PosiesandPuppies said
May 31, 2021
I interfered by "running point," by covering up, by trying to mitigate the bad consequences. I also downplayed the effects a lot. TBH, it wasn't until I realized what I was doing and began to stop doing these things that the union became unbearable. But there was no way I could keep all that up forever! My health was at stake.
"Let go or be dragged" is indeed a truthful slogan!
Remebering my FIL today. He served in the Korean War. I hate all wars and everything to do with war. I am not overly fond of war history (although I find history fascinating), and I do not like watching war movies, war documentaries, etc. BUT, I am grateful beyond measure for the life I lead, and a am fully aware that my liberties/pleasures in life came about from the sacrifice of others during times of war/conflict. So today, I tip my hat, say a prayer of thanks, take a moment.... whatever is needed to thank those who have lost a loved one to the service of our country.
&
Maresie888 said
May 31, 2021
There are certain issues that I do live and let go with. One of my neighbors is autistic. He cannot even speak except he definitely understands what others say His aunt is taking care of him because his mother has pretty th much abdicated. His father has never really been in the picture. His aunt has major physical problems. For some reason Inam very accepting of his parents.
I most certaiy do whatever I can to help out. I do not go out of my way. I walk the line of not getting too involved in what needs to be done. However whenever I have spare food I give it to him.
I had to negotiate a similar path with the qualifier. I took a cry much hands off approach. They were times when I helped him. Then there were times I stopped helping him I had to take it one day at a time
-- Edited by Maresie888 on Monday 31st of May 2021 10:48:38 AM
Iamhere said
May 31, 2021
Thank you Lyne for your service and the daily. Thank you all for your shares and ESH. I do wish all a lovely Monday, for me, just for today, that is secondary to the deep gratitude I feel for those who paid the ultimate price for our freedoms and liberties. I am reminded of family who've served as well as a lovely gentleman who took his own life last year on Memorial Day. He had served and was so afraid of the VA hospital that he opted instead to take his life, leaving behind his partner of more than 40 years.
In spite of my own place today and my effort to feel and heal, I did as I always do - I took time this morning to reach out to those who have survived the loss of one willing to defend our country, paying the ultimate sacrifice. This is what I was called to do when I began my day aligning with the will of my HP.
When I first came to recovery and heard of boundaries, I was intrigued. Of course, I had no idea what I was doing so they were far from intended - self protection - resulting in punitive measures towards those with this disease and others I felt were 'toxic'. I had to put the brakes on, digest more of this program, lean into my HP and then try again. My sponsor helped me create boundaries that truly were about protecting my serenity and sanity and not painful/punitive towards others. Over and over again as we worked on this, I was reminded to check my own feelings and motives and to not judge others.
At some point, I had an Aha moment - each person I come in contact with also has a right to boundaries, spoken or not, written or not, etc. As I've focused more on me vs. what I think is done 'to me', I've come to use that pause to try and put myself into the shoes of another, and then consider if I would say what I was going to say or do what I was going to do, how would I feel? It is this very exercise that's brought me to a place of realizing how controlling and manipulating I was/can be when I ask questions, manage appointments, intrude on space, etc.
It is really, really hard for me to sit on the sidelines and watch those I love hurt themselves and suffer the pain/consequences of their actions when this disease is active. Yet, I try to do just that as I know it is healthier for me and for them. At any point that I think I need to intervene, I've set aside the will of my HP for my own and it just never, ever goes well. I just keep focusing on trying to be of service instead of enabling or ignoring and I have learned how to love from across the street.
It remains my intent to keep being of maximum service to self and others no matter what's going on around me. It's a blessing to take a moment or a day to reflect and honor all who've passed in service to our country and way of life. Counting my blessings, one day at a time.
SunnyFrogs said
May 31, 2021
Good evening.
I so appreciate all that participate and share. It always helps me so much.
That being said,today AH purposely picked an argument with me and I fell for it and played right into it. He had been doing that all day,trying to pick one. I knew it would be used as an excuse to drink but fell for it anyway.
I thought it would be best to let him know I was on to him and his tactics,which didn't go well.
To make a long story short, I stopped in my tracks,walked away, got busy doing other things and things have been peaceful since.
Silly me,LOL,like trying to call him out on what he was doing would make a difference.
I'm so grateful to be a member. I am learning one day at a time.
-- Edited by SunnyFrogs on Monday 31st of May 2021 06:32:16 PM
DavidG said
May 31, 2021
Thanks Lyne... and y'all...
I might have read today's reading- and thought- this does not apply to me...
...but early on-I was taught- look for the similarities, and not the differences.
I heart goes out to the parents of alcoholics and addicts the most- in a way.
Then we have friends and workmates of- and partners, or ex-partners of.
Quite complex crew- from the outside looking in- but inside- as we begin to
share and compare, things begin to gel.
I am not headlining this posting- and plan to get to the topic, as I go along.
For some years i kept to the tried and trusted topics that came up in meetings.
But, after a time, I often resented group meetings that didn't allow time for ESH.
On the other hand- there are some times on the journey- Where I seemed to need
4 or 5 meetings a week. Not available here. That is- in my own home town. On MIP Alanon,
of course we go get heaps of sharing time here.
I am writing this from an airport, having spent the weekend at a tangi. {Funeral}
This had a strong AA and Alanon component- and I recited the serenity prayer during
my tribute to our departed friend. During the weekend there was an enormous amount of sharing-
much of this was upright and frank- that same As we might find in a well established meeting.
There was tears too- and a certain amount of singing and laughter.
We all slept together on the floor- on mattresses, of course!
Not to everybody's taste. Some of us do not see each other often at all. This may be my last trip
to this massive city. I find the driving there really daunting.
My AA friend is the patriarch of the family now. I could see his gentle influence. But at one
stage on Saturday he was gaslighting me badly. I used to knuckle under when this happened.
It had been a pattern for my whole life. [As I write this I can reflect on a whole raft of
memories that underline this one!]
But this time- a gently just held my ground- until we actually found common ground.
He went away for a while- and texted me back a Step 10. Whether he reflected- or contacted
his sponsor- I need not know. All I need to know is that the breach was healed.
I know now that we cannot cruise through life without this happening. Progress- not perfection.
The point of the reading- is that I did not at all try to get oo the case of the A.
I managed to act in a way- so that he got onto his own case. kind loving detachment- from me.
Thanks for the share. ...
-- Edited by DavidG on Monday 31st of May 2021 07:34:37 PM
mamalioness said
Jun 5, 2021
Hey Lyne.
Dont know how I missed such a good post but this was a very good reading thank you for sharing it
And I am guilty as charged as I would try to sort of help the energy teach the alcoholic the lesson he needed but interfering with HP just doesnt work. So I just backed off and figure it OK if he ends up in jail or whatever Im gonna let him sit there. I wasnt in recovery so I made a lot of mistakes but Ive got to give myself one Kudo and that is the fact that I did not prevent him from suffering the consequences of his deeds.
Back then it wasnt about Al-Anon because I didnt know about it at the time, back then it was about my just being tired of bailing him out and calling in sick for him and I just decided nope--I am not going to lift a finger.
My second alcoholic husband was in the Navy and he did have a care about not driving his truck while drunk because he knew he could kill somebody so he would call me to come get him and then we would get his truck the next day. And I admit that I did it because I did not want him driving and possibly killing somebody else.
I dont have any alcoholics in my close circle anymore except my brother and he is in another state and I remember him asking me and this was after I was in recovery for a while. He wanted me to write to the court to try and get his punishment lessened and I refused to do it I told him whatever the court deemed necessary to teach him a lesson I was not going to stand in the way and interfere. We talked about that afterwards. He was sentenced to three months and had to do alcoholic anonymous meetings which he did he lost his license for I think 90 days which coincided with his compulsory meetings and he did attend and did get the card signed by the room monitor that he was there and I prayed that he would stay but is soon as his 90 days was over with the probation and the loss of license and court ordered AA meetings, as soon as it was over with and he had his license in his hand, there went to meetings.
Its a good thing I didnt have very high expectations. He has not been to a meeting since but he still remembers a lot of the things about it and sometimes we talk about steps eight and nine and other parts of the program but now if he gets into trouble, I will let him suffer the consequences just like I did with the DUI and I dont know about Massachusetts but here in Texas? If you get caught drinking and driving even first offense I heard its about $12,000 to get out of trouble or you do jail time. And it really should be that way because nobody should get behind the wheel of a 2000 pound vehicle and drive while drunk because they put everybody on the road with them in jeopardy
In the reading for Monday, 5/31, the author questions whether we should create a crisis for the alcoholic to help them come to their senses? They go on to say this idea is misunderstood and wrongly applied. They say further that it is not our job to interfere with the drinkers activities, plan pitfalls, or punish, thinking it is for their own good. It is not our job to decide what is for anyone elses goodwe must leave that to HP. Instead, it is suggested that our role is to allow the inevitable consequences and not try to prevent them. Part of the quote says: Scheming to outwit the addicted person is doomed to failure.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Had I read this page when I was new to alanon I would have thought, well you just dont know my A! Oh did I run interference anyway and anytime I could. Did I mention my A was drinking and driving? That was probably the hardest part at all, since it involved the health and safety of other people. And it could (and often does) have a deadly outcome. It took me some time to Live and let live and let go and let God. Im not exactly sure when this particular behavior of my As slowed down and stopped, because surely the drinking went on for some time. But all my attempts to stop, prohibit, force solutions, etc., only made me a mental wreck. I needed my sponsor, and this board, and my F2F meetings, and eventually it all made sense. What is that sayingtime takes time.
I can remember trying to impress upon AH that his drinking was causing this verbally abusive chaos that was driving
me out of the marriage and of course it was met with not only indifference but with distain that how dare I suggest
that there was a problem. I learned very quickly why I should not do that ever again and why I got the response
that I did. Very grateful to Al-Anon/MIP/HP!
I have no doubt today that this program works and works very well after reading the ESH of the fellowship as they express it having happened whether the outcomes were/are positive or negative. I don't know how things are supposed to or will come out unless I stay within and on top of the program as it is offered me to work.
I was and am still impressed how errored I was about my part in it and how it was coming about. I was and still could be so wrong. My thinking was so very far away from how it was supposed to be and come out.
I remembered coming to the awareness that I was living within miracles for the alcoholic/addict and for the family and myself. Truly I didn't know and didn't know that I didn't know and should then rely upon acceptance on my part on how life was coming out. I was sooo wrong and that was a miracle for her and for me and for others involved. Leave it alone Jerry!! and my prayer to my Higher Power simply became "Place me where YOU want me...Tell me what to do." I have learned to act upon and behave what I am being told. By doing this I discovered I was actually loving my Alcoholic/Addict and every one else affected. I learned to smile and be supportive and be a therapist without taking the opportunity for telling others what to do. I learned how to make suggestions and then later ask the question, "So how did that come out for you"? We experience peace of mind and serenity which is evidence that I was getting sane and healing.
This program works for me and while at times I experience failure the experience alone examples that the program is working.
Keep on keeping on and passing your experiences back to the fellowship. That is how recovery gets to work; especially for this member. Thanks for letting me share. ((((Hugs))))
I interfered by "running point," by covering up, by trying to mitigate the bad consequences. I also downplayed the effects a lot. TBH, it wasn't until I realized what I was doing and began to stop doing these things that the union became unbearable. But there was no way I could keep all that up forever! My health was at stake.
& 
"Let go or be dragged" is indeed a truthful slogan!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remebering my FIL today. He served in the Korean War. I hate all wars and everything to do with war. I am not overly fond of war history (although I find history fascinating), and I do not like watching war movies, war documentaries, etc.
BUT, I am grateful beyond measure for the life I lead, and a am fully aware that my liberties/pleasures in life came about from the sacrifice of others during times of war/conflict.
So today, I tip my hat, say a prayer of thanks, take a moment.... whatever is needed to thank those who have lost a loved one to the service of our country.
There are certain issues that I do live and let go with. One of my neighbors is autistic. He cannot even speak except he definitely understands what others say
His aunt is taking care of him because his mother has pretty th much abdicated. His father has never really been in the picture.
His aunt has major physical problems. For some reason Inam very accepting of his parents.
I most certaiy do whatever I can to help out. I do not go out of my way. I walk the line of not getting too involved in what needs to be done. However whenever I have spare food I give it to him.
I had to negotiate a similar path with the qualifier. I took a cry much hands off approach. They were times when I helped him. Then there were times I stopped helping him
I had to take it one day at a time
-- Edited by Maresie888 on Monday 31st of May 2021 10:48:38 AM
In spite of my own place today and my effort to feel and heal, I did as I always do - I took time this morning to reach out to those who have survived the loss of one willing to defend our country, paying the ultimate sacrifice. This is what I was called to do when I began my day aligning with the will of my HP.
When I first came to recovery and heard of boundaries, I was intrigued. Of course, I had no idea what I was doing so they were far from intended - self protection - resulting in punitive measures towards those with this disease and others I felt were 'toxic'. I had to put the brakes on, digest more of this program, lean into my HP and then try again. My sponsor helped me create boundaries that truly were about protecting my serenity and sanity and not painful/punitive towards others. Over and over again as we worked on this, I was reminded to check my own feelings and motives and to not judge others.
At some point, I had an Aha moment - each person I come in contact with also has a right to boundaries, spoken or not, written or not, etc. As I've focused more on me vs. what I think is done 'to me', I've come to use that pause to try and put myself into the shoes of another, and then consider if I would say what I was going to say or do what I was going to do, how would I feel? It is this very exercise that's brought me to a place of realizing how controlling and manipulating I was/can be when I ask questions, manage appointments, intrude on space, etc.
It is really, really hard for me to sit on the sidelines and watch those I love hurt themselves and suffer the pain/consequences of their actions when this disease is active. Yet, I try to do just that as I know it is healthier for me and for them. At any point that I think I need to intervene, I've set aside the will of my HP for my own and it just never, ever goes well. I just keep focusing on trying to be of service instead of enabling or ignoring and I have learned how to love from across the street.
It remains my intent to keep being of maximum service to self and others no matter what's going on around me. It's a blessing to take a moment or a day to reflect and honor all who've passed in service to our country and way of life. Counting my blessings, one day at a time.
Good evening.
I so appreciate all that participate and share. It always helps me so much.
That being said,today AH purposely picked an argument with me and I fell for it and played right into it. He had been doing that all day,trying to pick one. I knew it would be used as an excuse to drink but fell for it anyway.
I thought it would be best to let him know I was on to him and his tactics,which didn't go well.
To make a long story short, I stopped in my tracks,walked away, got busy doing other things and things have been peaceful since.
Silly me,LOL,like trying to call him out on what he was doing would make a difference.
I'm so grateful to be a member. I am learning one day at a time.
-- Edited by SunnyFrogs on Monday 31st of May 2021 06:32:16 PM
I might have read today's reading- and thought- this does not apply to me...
...but early on-I was taught- look for the similarities, and not the differences.
I heart goes out to the parents of alcoholics and addicts the most- in a way.
Then we have friends and workmates of- and partners, or ex-partners of.
Quite complex crew- from the outside looking in- but inside- as we begin to
share and compare, things begin to gel.
I am not headlining this posting- and plan to get to the topic, as I go along.
For some years i kept to the tried and trusted topics that came up in meetings.
But, after a time, I often resented group meetings that didn't allow time for ESH.
On the other hand- there are some times on the journey- Where I seemed to need
4 or 5 meetings a week. Not available here. That is- in my own home town. On MIP Alanon,
of course we go get heaps of sharing time here.
I am writing this from an airport, having spent the weekend at a tangi. {Funeral}
This had a strong AA and Alanon component- and I recited the serenity prayer during
my tribute to our departed friend. During the weekend there was an enormous amount of sharing-
much of this was upright and frank- that same As we might find in a well established meeting.
There was tears too- and a certain amount of singing and laughter.
We all slept together on the floor- on mattresses, of course!
Not to everybody's taste. Some of us do not see each other often at all. This may be my last trip
to this massive city. I find the driving there really daunting.
My AA friend is the patriarch of the family now. I could see his gentle influence. But at one
stage on Saturday he was gaslighting me badly. I used to knuckle under when this happened.
It had been a pattern for my whole life. [As I write this I can reflect on a whole raft of
memories that underline this one!]
But this time- a gently just held my ground- until we actually found common ground.
He went away for a while- and texted me back a Step 10. Whether he reflected- or contacted
his sponsor- I need not know. All I need to know is that the breach was healed.
I know now that we cannot cruise through life without this happening. Progress- not perfection.
The point of the reading- is that I did not at all try to get oo the case of the A.
I managed to act in a way- so that he got onto his own case. kind loving detachment- from me.
Thanks for the share.
...
-- Edited by DavidG on Monday 31st of May 2021 07:34:37 PM
Dont know how I missed such a good post but this was a very good reading thank you for sharing it
And I am guilty as charged as I would try to sort of help the energy teach the alcoholic the lesson he needed but interfering with HP just doesnt work. So I just backed off and figure it OK if he ends up in jail or whatever Im gonna let him sit there. I wasnt in recovery so I made a lot of mistakes but Ive got to give myself one Kudo and that is the fact that I did not prevent him from suffering the consequences of his deeds.
Back then it wasnt about Al-Anon because I didnt know about it at the time, back then it was about my just being tired of bailing him out and calling in sick for him and I just decided nope--I am not going to lift a finger.
My second alcoholic husband was in the Navy and he did have a care about not driving his truck while drunk because he knew he could kill somebody so he would call me to come get him and then we would get his truck the next day. And I admit that I did it because I did not want him driving and possibly killing somebody else.
I dont have any alcoholics in my close circle anymore except my brother and he is in another state and I remember him asking me and this was after I was in recovery for a while. He wanted me to write to the court to try and get his punishment lessened and I refused to do it I told him whatever the court deemed necessary to teach him a lesson I was not going to stand in the way and interfere. We talked about that afterwards. He was sentenced to three months and had to do alcoholic anonymous meetings which he did he lost his license for I think 90 days which coincided with his compulsory meetings and he did attend and did get the card signed by the room monitor that he was there and I prayed that he would stay but is soon as his 90 days was over with the probation and the loss of license and court ordered AA meetings, as soon as it was over with and he had his license in his hand, there went to meetings.
Its a good thing I didnt have very high expectations. He has not been to a meeting since but he still remembers a lot of the things about it and sometimes we talk about steps eight and nine and other parts of the program but now if he gets into trouble, I will let him suffer the consequences just like I did with the DUI and I dont know about Massachusetts but here in Texas? If you get caught drinking and driving even first offense I heard its about $12,000 to get out of trouble or you do jail time. And it really should be that way because nobody should get behind the wheel of a 2000 pound vehicle and drive while drunk because they put everybody on the road with them in jeopardy