Why do I feel guilty when I know I am being manipulated and say no? My situation is making me sick to my stomach. I cannot seem to get it through my daughter's head that the gravy train is derailed! When I say no, she keeps telling me I never help her and curses at me and threatens to start doing illegal things to get money to pay for the car and the insurance that she could not afford when she went off an bought it. I don't care what kind of trouble she gets herself into, I am just so tired of being the punching bag - and it is literally making me sick. I mean to the point where my stomach is a mess and my head is pounding. she destroyed my son's wedding weekend with her rants (over text) saying she wasn't coming bla bla bla when I ignored her, she showed up a hot mess and was quite the embarrassment. She doesn't see it. Again, I know I can't and am not giving into her demands for money, but she is attacking me through texts and I cannot concentrate at work. I seriously just want her out of my life at this point, is that horrible? I want no part of her and don't even want to see or talk to her ever again. I have to take her to court 2 hours away tomorrow because they are going to take her license but I am the bad guy here. Don't get it and just don't care anymore
Debb said
May 18, 2021
Mamamary1964, I have iterated this a few times, but it seem poignant now to say again.
"If you do not want someone to get your goat, do not tell them where you tied it up."
She knows that she is upsetting you.
The slogan T H I N K
When I find my-self in a situation with anybody, possibly something is being said or done that I dont like I apply this slogan. Stop and THINK.
The T stands for Thoughtful!
The H stands for Helpful! Honest!
The I stands for Intelligent!
The N stands for Necessary!
The K stands for Kind!
In other words I ask my-self, is a reply NECESSARY? If yes than I need to say something THOUGHTFUL, HELPFUL, INTELLIGENT, or KIND.
If no, then it is best for me not to say anything.
That is how I Mind My Own Business; and keep the Focus on my-self.
PosiesandPuppies said
May 18, 2021
Huge hugs here!!!!
You are in the place of "bad guy" b/c you are changing the dynamic she is used to... that allows her to function as an addict. It is obvious from your description of your health that it is high time you make YOU are priority. I can certainly relate to just being "done" with all the addict drama/chaos.
One thing that helped me tremendously when my Ex was active in his disease (I could not block b/c he is the father of our child). I used "silent mode" for his number. That way I didn't get sound/banner alerts whenever he would text/rant & I could look at them at my leisure when I was strong.
Good luck tomorrow... stay strong with your boundaries.
mamamary1964 said
May 18, 2021
Thanks guys! I am praying they throw her in jail tbh, although that is highly unlikely. I'm puzzled because on Easter Sunday she called me and told me she needed to go to rehab because she was done with the chaos, she gets out on Wednesday and buys weed on Friday. She's back to the same old attitude and everybody needs to help her just until she gets a paycheck. I know the game and refuse to play. I want her out of my house and quite frankly, jail would be the best place for her.
Daffodils said
May 18, 2021
Sorry for the deep anguish you are experiencing mammary. I learned to apply T.H.I.N.K as suggested and it was very helpful. Also, I heard that sometimes the N( is it necessary) meant it didn't necessarily have to be me. Please bear in mind I am not a seasoned Al-Anon or a mother so my ESH is limited. I will keep you and your daughter in my prayers.
Iamhere said
May 18, 2021
(((Mary))) - I am so, so sorry for the madness this disease is bringing. When I've been near your place, I have to keep reminding myself that I love my child, I hate this disease. I have to remember they are not bad, they are sick. Every single Al-Anon slogan or tool I've ever heard about comes into play....and no matter what we do, we will be on the receiving end of brutal words/actions simply because we're no longer enabling the disease or diseased.
For what it's worth, I have blocked my boys so they can't reach me with their texts/calls/voicemails. I have also dropped my boys at court, and took off allowing them to fend for themselves (not in the same location). I have also dropped them in a car at a detox, asking a friend to come and get me and returning later to pick up the car.
There is no right/wrong way to respond to the insanity of this disease. There is no OSFA (One Size Fits All) solution, tool, slogan, etc. Find a way to take good care of you; it's not easy. (((Hugs)))
mamamary1964 said
May 18, 2021
Iamhere - I am close to shutting her phone off and throwing her out in the street. I will not be subjected to her venom any longer. Honestly, I am seething and really don't care what happens to her at this point Yes, I love her but I cannot stand the person she has become. She is tearing the family apart and calling us toxic! She has to get out of my house because we are all toxic and triggers - don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya! I am done and I don't even feel bad about it. I am taking your advise and allowing her to fend for herself.
Maresie888 said
May 19, 2021
Mary Hack
I certainly know where you are coming from
The god thing about al anon is the more you practice detaching the better it gets
I had to endure a pretty prickly co worker today. I have one more say to go through. Normally I would be on the ceiling..
I would be ranting abdvraving. Then my primary job cut my hours without even talking to me. In fact for the next 5 days I have zero from them. Lucky for me I have not one but TWO back up jobs
Iwhen you can anticipate what is coming around the corner it really help. Bit really absolutely I would be on the ceiling crying poor ne under normal circumstances. The program has made me very strong resilient and resourceful
I know the program can give you a lot of strength
Switching your phone off helps. At one time when the former qualifier was harassing me I put it on aeroplanes mode. Of course that had its problems because no one else can get through either. However it short circuits the ability of that person to punish you
I.most certainly got to dislike ths qualifier. There are other people I dislike. These days I do not spend that much time disliking them. I spend more time detaching from them
Living with someone who is on an intense self destructive phase is very difficult. Nevertheless the al anon tools of detaching, staying calm and focusing on yourself are so so helpful. The issue is they take practice so you have to be patient enough to practice when you are in dire need of tools.
Containment is a huge issue when someone is acting out of control. In the former qualifiers realm I stopped paying up. I let the electric be shut off. The wireless was shut off too. I refused to step in.
I stopped paying close attention to what he was s doing. Needless to say he got himself into some disasters
I have to say I went back and forth a lot. I felt terrible for him. I felt terrible for those around him. I felt obligated
Then I really worked on separating out my interests then ot hot easier
The qualifier certainly ended up getting into hot water. He continues to do that. I am no longer around to cushion the fall
As one of my recovery friends mentions often a child is a whole different proposition. The bond with a child is naturally protective
Nevertheless al anon has tools that can help. Every time you can bring some of the chaos down a notch is really helpful. Then you get the space to plan ahead
I am.glad you are looking for support and feedback. You deserve to be heard and known
Maresie
JerryF said
May 20, 2021
Wow Mary this brings back where I learned about my addiction to the alcoholic/addict I was married to. The program and the fellowship that stood with me and shared their ESHs and my sponsor and college showed me the addiction I was caught up in. She was addicted to alcohol and drugs and I was addicted to her.
The First Step practiced revealed to me "I am addicted to the addict/alcoholic...and my life had become unmanageable." That was/is exactly true. One of the events that helped me change it was my sponsors name and favorite slogan. His name is Don.T and his favorite slogan was "STOP!!"
I use the slogans daily holding my Higher Power's hand.
Keep up the practice Mary...you're getting closer. ((((hugs))))
mamamary1964 said
May 20, 2021
I am so pissed off - the judge dropped all the charges against my daughter - once again she walks away. They dropped the possession of a controlled substance, possession of Paraphernalia and the reckless driving ticket - knocked the speeding ticket down from 108 in a 55 to 65 in a 55! I don't get it, she keeps getting away with it! Praying she learned a lesson, but expecting the next "arrest" to be coming
JerryF said
May 20, 2021
It might be helpful that in the future the judge and the jury would find themselves going to meetings also. Pray that!!
SunnyFrogs said
May 21, 2021
I'm sorry you're dealing with this mamamary.
My son got kicked out of rehab and has been in jail since then. I'm not sure what will happen next. A family member told me his HP would have helped him if he had just listened and let him. I told this person "how do you know his HP didn't help him?". The person became quiet for a bit and then said maybe I was right,we don't know what his HP wants for him.
I hold onto that thought,that although I may wish things to be a specific way maybe they are the way they are for a reason. It was actually my first thought when I found out he went to jail.
Although you may not see it maybe things could be happening with your daughter for a reason
-- Edited by SunnyFrogs on Friday 21st of May 2021 12:32:29 PM
mamamary1964 said
May 21, 2021
SunnyFrogs - funny you should say that (well not literally funny) - my pastor always says, "be careful who's blessing you" that being said, I don't know why she "got off", either she is going to have an epiphany and straighten out her life or she's just going to continue to screw up until she is flat on her back with no place to look but up. I don't know and quite frankly, I am done "worrying" about it. She is 21 years old and an adult (or so she tells me until she needs money) - I have to let her figure it out. I just pray that she finds somewhere else to live because her being in my home is stressing everybody out. On a happy note, she went to work 2 days in a row! (Or so she says)
SunnyFrogs said
May 21, 2021
2 days in a row of work is an accomplishment. Baby steps,right?
It's hard when they are living in the home. It's hard to let go and detach and not get caught up in the chaos.
I hope things calm down soon
Iamhere said
May 22, 2021
Prayers for all continue Mama. Active disease within the home/family is maddening, at least in my experience. Take good care of you!
serenity47 said
May 23, 2021
Love the person hate the disease.
When my daughter was at her very worst, I really did not like her very much, although I loved her immensely. She brought a lot of drama and chaos to the family.
However, I had a part, and when I learned to drop my end of the rope, my life improved.
This did not occur quickly nor was it easy. I was certain that I was going to be able to "save" someone whom clearly at the time did not want to be "saved" It was a hellish experience.
It was something that I had to go through though in order to make the changes necessary, so that I could learn to survive in spite of what she did or did not do.
I did not stop the rescuing, the interfering, the advice giving, the unhealthy dance with her disease of addiction until I literally could not function anymore. At that point, I surrendered and although I still felt heart broken, I also felt a great sense of relief.
Eventually, she changed her life and today we have a very good relationship once again. I am grateful. It was the principles of the 12 step program that got me through some very tough times.
-- Edited by serenity47 on Monday 24th of May 2021 12:06:44 PM
mamalioness said
May 23, 2021
Hey Mary, I would re-read what Debbie said over and over about if you do not want somebody getting your goat, dont tell them where are you tied it up. And the rest of her post was spot on
You can love someone but you dont have to have them so close to your circle that they can do you harm. Like you could temporarily until she gets under recovery, block her phone number or mute her texts or just erased them and dont answer them. The big thing is if its getting to you that badly , Her communications, its time to mute or block or whatever if you cant just erase. You are of no use to anybody if you cannot take care of yourself. I know it sounds selfish but Al-Anon teaches us to take care of ourselves and to take care of our needs first and then, if we have some left over, gladly share it with safe others and I stress the word SAFE
She is not safe to be around anymore. And she could get physical. You dont know. If this were me and believe me Ive been there with my own and I have had to distance myself from her lots and lots and now she has kicked me to the curb because I insist on keeping my program so that makes me a weak person in her mind because she does not need the program anymore. She has graduated. She is cured. Well I pray she stays sober but you know what? She is what you call a dry addict. Shes sober but she is still with the addict thanking. Nasty, entitled, doesnt care about other people, my girlfriend lives real close to her and she keeps an eye on everything and lets me know what she is doing and everything and I told my girlfriend who doesnt even want to speak with this girl, of course I think my girlfriend for the progress reports but you know? I told my girlfriend that if she does not want me, meaning my daughter, Im OK. It hurts and I cried and cried for a long time but then I finally just made my peace with it and thought you know what? My mental health and my serenity and my peace and my being treated with respect comes first. And if someone cannot do that? I can still love them and feel compassion for them but I do not have to have them in my face hurting me and treating me like crap
That is where I am at now but it took a lot of working this program to get me to that place where I could detach from her and even disconnect in the interest of my serenity and my mental health. If she should get back into the program and work it and be sincere and show good fruit for a sustained period, of course we could reestablish connections but I am not holding my breath. I have my family of choice. I deserve to be loved and respected as I love and respect the people in my life
Please keep coming back because this program truly works if you work it
Why do I feel guilty when I know I am being manipulated and say no? My situation is making me sick to my stomach. I cannot seem to get it through my daughter's head that the gravy train is derailed! When I say no, she keeps telling me I never help her and curses at me and threatens to start doing illegal things to get money to pay for the car and the insurance that she could not afford when she went off an bought it. I don't care what kind of trouble she gets herself into, I am just so tired of being the punching bag - and it is literally making me sick. I mean to the point where my stomach is a mess and my head is pounding. she destroyed my son's wedding weekend with her rants (over text) saying she wasn't coming bla bla bla when I ignored her, she showed up a hot mess and was quite the embarrassment. She doesn't see it. Again, I know I can't and am not giving into her demands for money, but she is attacking me through texts and I cannot concentrate at work. I seriously just want her out of my life at this point, is that horrible? I want no part of her and don't even want to see or talk to her ever again. I have to take her to court 2 hours away tomorrow because they are going to take her license but I am the bad guy here. Don't get it and just don't care anymore
"If you do not want someone to get your goat, do not tell them where you tied it up."
She knows that she is upsetting you.
The slogan T H I N K
When I find my-self in a situation with anybody, possibly something is being said or done that I dont like I apply this slogan. Stop and THINK.
The T stands for Thoughtful!
The H stands for Helpful! Honest!
The I stands for Intelligent!
The N stands for Necessary!
The K stands for Kind!
In other words I ask my-self, is a reply NECESSARY? If yes than I need to say something THOUGHTFUL, HELPFUL, INTELLIGENT, or KIND.
If no, then it is best for me not to say anything.
That is how I Mind My Own Business; and keep the Focus on my-self.
You are in the place of "bad guy" b/c you are changing the dynamic she is used to... that allows her to function as an addict. It is obvious from your description of your health that it is high time you make YOU are priority. I can certainly relate to just being "done" with all the addict drama/chaos.
One thing that helped me tremendously when my Ex was active in his disease (I could not block b/c he is the father of our child). I used "silent mode" for his number. That way I didn't get sound/banner alerts whenever he would text/rant & I could look at them at my leisure when I was strong.
Good luck tomorrow... stay strong with your boundaries.
For what it's worth, I have blocked my boys so they can't reach me with their texts/calls/voicemails. I have also dropped my boys at court, and took off allowing them to fend for themselves (not in the same location). I have also dropped them in a car at a detox, asking a friend to come and get me and returning later to pick up the car.
There is no right/wrong way to respond to the insanity of this disease. There is no OSFA (One Size Fits All) solution, tool, slogan, etc. Find a way to take good care of you; it's not easy. (((Hugs)))
Mary Hack
I certainly know where you are coming from
The god thing about al anon is the more you practice detaching the better it gets
I had to endure a pretty prickly co worker today. I have one more say to go through. Normally I would be on the ceiling..
I would be ranting abdvraving. Then my primary job cut my hours without even talking to me. In fact for the next 5 days I have zero from them. Lucky for me I have not one but TWO back up jobs
Iwhen you can anticipate what is coming around the corner it really help. Bit really absolutely I would be on the ceiling crying poor ne under normal circumstances. The program has made me very strong resilient and resourceful
I know the program can give you a lot of strength
Switching your phone off helps. At one time when the former qualifier was harassing me I put it on aeroplanes mode. Of course that had its problems because no one else can get through either. However it short circuits the ability of that person to punish you
I.most certainly got to dislike ths qualifier. There are other people I dislike. These days I do not spend that much time disliking them. I spend more time detaching from them
Living with someone who is on an intense self destructive phase is very difficult. Nevertheless the al anon tools of detaching, staying calm and focusing on yourself are so so helpful. The issue is they take practice so you have to be patient enough to practice when you are in dire need of tools.
Containment is a huge issue when someone is acting out of control. In the former qualifiers realm I stopped paying up. I let the electric be shut off. The wireless was shut off too. I refused to step in.
I stopped paying close attention to what he was s doing. Needless to say he got himself into some disasters
I have to say I went back and forth a lot. I felt terrible for him. I felt terrible for those around him. I felt obligated
Then I really worked on separating out my interests then ot hot easier
The qualifier certainly ended up getting into hot water. He continues to do that. I am no longer around to cushion the fall
As one of my recovery friends mentions often a child is a whole different proposition. The bond with a child is naturally protective
Nevertheless al anon has tools that can help. Every time you can bring some of the chaos down a notch is really helpful. Then you get the space to plan ahead
I am.glad you are looking for support and feedback. You deserve to be heard and known
Maresie
Wow Mary this brings back where I learned about my addiction to the alcoholic/addict I was married to. The program and the fellowship that stood with me and shared their ESHs and my sponsor and college showed me the addiction I was caught up in. She was addicted to alcohol and drugs and I was addicted to her.
The First Step practiced revealed to me "I am addicted to the addict/alcoholic...and my life had become unmanageable." That was/is exactly true. One of the events that helped me change it was my sponsors name and favorite slogan. His name is Don.T and his favorite slogan was "STOP!!"
I use the slogans daily holding my Higher Power's hand.
Keep up the practice Mary...you're getting closer. ((((hugs))))
It might be helpful that in the future the judge and the jury would find themselves going to meetings also. Pray that!!
I'm sorry you're dealing with this mamamary.
My son got kicked out of rehab and has been in jail since then. I'm not sure what will happen next. A family member told me his HP would have helped him if he had just listened and let him. I told this person "how do you know his HP didn't help him?". The person became quiet for a bit and then said maybe I was right,we don't know what his HP wants for him.
I hold onto that thought,that although I may wish things to be a specific way maybe they are the way they are for a reason. It was actually my first thought when I found out he went to jail.
Although you may not see it maybe things could be happening with your daughter for a reason
-- Edited by SunnyFrogs on Friday 21st of May 2021 12:32:29 PM
It's hard when they are living in the home. It's hard to let go and detach and not get caught up in the chaos.
I hope things calm down soon
Love the person hate the disease.
When my daughter was at her very worst, I really did not like her very much, although I loved her immensely. She brought a lot of drama and chaos to the family.
However, I had a part, and when I learned to drop my end of the rope, my life improved.
This did not occur quickly nor was it easy. I was certain that I was going to be able to "save" someone whom clearly at the time did not want to be "saved" It was a hellish experience.
It was something that I had to go through though in order to make the changes necessary, so that I could learn to survive in spite of what she did or did not do.
I did not stop the rescuing, the interfering, the advice giving, the unhealthy dance with her disease of addiction until I literally could not function anymore. At that point, I surrendered and although I still felt heart broken, I also felt a great sense of relief.
Eventually, she changed her life and today we have a very good relationship once again. I am grateful. It was the principles of the 12 step program that got me through some very tough times.
-- Edited by serenity47 on Monday 24th of May 2021 12:06:44 PM
You can love someone but you dont have to have them so close to your circle that they can do you harm. Like you could temporarily until she gets under recovery, block her phone number or mute her texts or just erased them and dont answer them. The big thing is if its getting to you that badly , Her communications, its time to mute or block or whatever if you cant just erase. You are of no use to anybody if you cannot take care of yourself. I know it sounds selfish but Al-Anon teaches us to take care of ourselves and to take care of our needs first and then, if we have some left over, gladly share it with safe others and I stress the word SAFE
She is not safe to be around anymore. And she could get physical. You dont know. If this were me and believe me Ive been there with my own and I have had to distance myself from her lots and lots and now she has kicked me to the curb because I insist on keeping my program so that makes me a weak person in her mind because she does not need the program anymore. She has graduated. She is cured. Well I pray she stays sober but you know what? She is what you call a dry addict. Shes sober but she is still with the addict thanking. Nasty, entitled, doesnt care about other people, my girlfriend lives real close to her and she keeps an eye on everything and lets me know what she is doing and everything and I told my girlfriend who doesnt even want to speak with this girl, of course I think my girlfriend for the progress reports but you know? I told my girlfriend that if she does not want me, meaning my daughter, Im OK. It hurts and I cried and cried for a long time but then I finally just made my peace with it and thought you know what? My mental health and my serenity and my peace and my being treated with respect comes first. And if someone cannot do that? I can still love them and feel compassion for them but I do not have to have them in my face hurting me and treating me like crap
That is where I am at now but it took a lot of working this program to get me to that place where I could detach from her and even disconnect in the interest of my serenity and my mental health. If she should get back into the program and work it and be sincere and show good fruit for a sustained period, of course we could reestablish connections but I am not holding my breath. I have my family of choice. I deserve to be loved and respected as I love and respect the people in my life
Please keep coming back because this program truly works if you work it