I am struggling and looking for ESH please as I feel like I am walking through a minefield that is still miles long.
So I have been separated from my AH the last 9 months. I have always maintained the stance that while he is not actively drunk that he is welcome to see the children and he manages this once every 2 weeks or so for a couple of hours.
I have also said that if / when he seeks recovery himself, I would also be willing to reconsider our relationship, but without that I wish him well but our paths are different. I have also explained what recovery means to me - i.e. taking responsibility to come over to the house more often, while 'sober', spending quality time with us and ideally working a program - the last bit I would like, but I know is not mine to control. The first part is that anyone who lives in this house (not just him) needs to be sober, clean and a responsible member of the family.
The problem is he keeps phoning and crying and begging me to let him come back to the house. He swears he is not drinking and I don't even have those discussions with him. I suspect he has depression as he has no support network, no friends, no family (as he originally came to live here from abroad) and has certainly struggled through Covid lockdown which is only just lifting here,
I am struggling with his crying. I have suggested he may be unwell and to phone a support helpline Samaritans or see a Doctor.
I know that I could put a boundary in not to answer his phone calls, but I am struggling with the concept of religion and the Good Samaritan and I feel like I am leaving him in his despair (and particularly that it might be depression, as many people with depression don't recognise how ill they are and won't see a doctor). I am struggling to stay on my side of the street and leave him to his own HP.
I would appreciate your ESH,
Thank you
DavidG said
May 14, 2021
Better- this is a dire situation... and must be approached sensitively. This view point is entirely my own-
and you might take anything you like and leave the rest. You may leave it all, if you wish. But this is my heartfelt ESH.
I have been through a period of weeping this week. I time of transition for me. And I am weeping in deep gratitude.
I think- in the situation like this- someone might want to run up and fix it. Wanting the person to stop and mop up.
In another situation it might be a sign of personal disintegration- and the beginning of the end?
A time for professional help, if that is available?
But, for me, on my journey weeping, and even more, has been a
sign of change and healing.
Take care, my friend.
Skorpi said
May 14, 2021
Better - I hear in your share how much you care.
I wonder, when he calls and is weeping, is he sober? (My AW and I were separated for a time, and I experienced both drunk and sober weeping. Some of it she remembers, some of it she does not. Some of it was genuine, some of it was manipulative. Each call was different, and required from me a different response.)
Your situation is your own, and it is important to listed to your HP, and decide what is best for you.
In a similar situation, I said "I would be happy to consider having you over more often when you are sober are able to prove to me that you are actively engaged in your recovery." (I did not define what "actively engaged" meant - I let her define that for herself.) In my wife's case, she sought professional help and showed me the papers from her group sessions as proof that she was actively engaged. (I let her move back in a few years ago, and her active engagement has lapsed. Depression is something she struggles with on a daily basis, so while she is still sober for the most part, she also doesn't tend to move from the sofa very often, with the exception of getting into her car and driving around randomly while she listens to music or podcasts. I've opted to carry on with my life, and do what I would do if she were not here, and recently, she's been talking about asking her doctor to change her meds to something that might work better for her.)
In my case, my response made it clear that it was in her power to change her situation, and she had action items: 1. be sober. 2. be active in her own recovery. That made it easier for me to point to what she needed to do, and be supportive while maintaining my boundaries and not enabling her. I'd say something like "It sounds like you are lonely and sad. I know you miss me and the pets, and we miss you too. It would be really nice to see you more often. Have you taken steps to seek recovery today?"
Take good care
Debb said
May 14, 2021
{{Bettertomorrow}} so sorry you are feeling anxious about AH and his begging to come back.
It is so so difficult to do to detach with love and compassion when one is under stress, but he
will not have an incentive to seek help if you give in. Like Skorpi said, putting the power to
change in his lap will take the anxiety out of yours!!
mamalioness said
May 14, 2021
Hello! I am sorry you are going through this but I smell that he is trying to manipulate you into letting him come back and it will be the same old same old if you do
This is just my take, and please use what you can and leave the rest. But alcoholics will cry and beg, I know because I went through that with my first one and they will cry and beg and promise but if theyre not in a program going to meetings every single day and working the steps and the slogans with a sponsor every single day, youre just going to have the same old Mary go round and it will never stop because he wont have the incentive
I just hate it when people would throw religion at me too, all you have to be forgiving and the good Samaritan and all of that well what about being a good Samaritan to myself? What about taking care of me and my needs???
As a child I had to forsake myself but I do not have to do it now. I can feel love and compassion and still say no no is a one word sentence and if it is too tempting, I would just not take his phone calls. One has the show sustained good fruit if they are really turning away from this debilitating disease that impacts everybody around it. They are really good at using emotions and manipulation to get what they want without having to do the work. If he keeps facing the consequences for his deeds, maybe just maybe he will get into serious program with a sponsor and to me he would have to be sober five years before I even considered living with him again and you know? Now that I am finally free from living with that, I would never go back. I would not even date someone who has an addiction history because they can slip back. This is just my take, please use what you can and leave the rest
Lyne said
May 14, 2021
{{{BT}}}, big hugs to you. One thing I tried with my spouse is that we attended counseling together, with an addictions counselor. The counselor may stress the importance of AH getting into recovery, but at the least, we had a neutral ground for communication with a professional who gets recovery and alcoholism. We went for about a year and a half, and a very painful year and a half it was. We did not reap any benefits then, but now, there is slight progress going on. And any improvement is welcome in my book. I tried to force solutions and set boundaries and all that did was make me nuts. Best of luck and keep coming back.
Iamhere said
May 14, 2021
(((BT))) - so very, very sorry for the pain and chaos the disease is bringing. In my experience, my boundaries made all the difference. I wasn't good at boundaries and am still learning but I know that making them about self-protection and not punitive helps greatly. When my A(s) were active, I had to be very specific with my boundaries as they could and would try all kinds of ways to cross the line. Their motives may have been selfish and self-serving; I don't know as I truly try to stay on my side of the street. It's not an easy place to be in...I know that.
I do know that each time I provided a safe place or soft landing, I interfered with their journey and possibly prolonged their pain. I had to work closely with my sponsor who knew me well and knew my circumstances to figure out healthy boundaries. I will say that I know my A(s) better than most others so also knew deep down when they were clean/sober vs. when they were active. There was no need to ask or pry.
My best suggestion is when in doubt, don't. Keep leaning into your program and your recovery and trust your HP and his plan for you.
Bettertomorrow said
May 14, 2021
Thank you all for your shares. They have all lifted my spirit.
I feel more resolved to maintain my boundaries, offer some support to find medical help if he asks for it and tell him we miss him and he is welcome when he is sober and in recovery. I can't go back to where I was and recognise this as a wobble that I can get through.
Thank you all once again for your messages. (())
Maresie888 said
May 14, 2021
Dear Better tomorrow
I have been reading a lot on how alcohol changes the brain and who is predisposed to addiction
I learned that somehow what happens is alcohol hijacks the parts of the brain that are concerned with survival. So the alcoholism becomes part of the survival issue. Then evebtiakky as they progress that alcohol is at the too of the list in front of everything else
I have also been reading a lot in self care. Sleep.is an essential. It is pretty hard to sleep around a active alcohol. Last year I spent 4 months in the living with an active alcoholic
He rarely slept although he spent a lot of time in the bedroom
He had no restorative rest.
Sleep deprivation is definitely part of what killed Prince
I sincerely doubt you are getting much restorative rest with this #protest# behavior
Indeed setting limits around an active alcoholic is indeed a formidable task
I don't know if your phone does not have a ringer.
In some ways for those of us who are around an alcoholic being needed feels safe and reassuring
Being out on my own feels like being at sea with no chartered course.
Saying no.does not mean we are uncaring
Saying no but we wish you well is indeed an art of discipline a d kindness
For me a
round an active alcoholic boy exhibiting anger is indeed an act of kindness. It is acknowledging they are unwell.
In order to be around an other person I.do nkt need to be in discomfort too.
Indeed I believe being able to.see an alcoholic without reacting is the act of the good samaritan.
That is indeed detachment with love. That is the acknowledgement they are their own person with the choices that go along with being human.
My life is very very challenging. Living with a. Alcoholic outside in the red zone. I may be able to do a great deal of detachment. I may be able to do a lot of self love. However being in direct proximity to someone living in chaos is a real strain. My self care is a precarious job
Balancing all the things I need to do is a uphill task
Getting the right combination is a challenge every day
If I put an active alcoholic in the equation ( as I had last year) then it affects my environment, my pace and my ability to test and restore myself
I am worthy of self care. Going without self care does not help another person be inspired to take care of themselves. Going without self care is no longer the way I show love to others.
Mutual aid is indeed part of the self help process. I am glad you are able to reach out and ask for reassurance.
Dear friends,
I am struggling and looking for ESH please as I feel like I am walking through a minefield that is still miles long.
So I have been separated from my AH the last 9 months. I have always maintained the stance that while he is not actively drunk that he is welcome to see the children and he manages this once every 2 weeks or so for a couple of hours.
I have also said that if / when he seeks recovery himself, I would also be willing to reconsider our relationship, but without that I wish him well but our paths are different. I have also explained what recovery means to me - i.e. taking responsibility to come over to the house more often, while 'sober', spending quality time with us and ideally working a program - the last bit I would like, but I know is not mine to control. The first part is that anyone who lives in this house (not just him) needs to be sober, clean and a responsible member of the family.
The problem is he keeps phoning and crying and begging me to let him come back to the house. He swears he is not drinking and I don't even have those discussions with him. I suspect he has depression as he has no support network, no friends, no family (as he originally came to live here from abroad) and has certainly struggled through Covid lockdown which is only just lifting here,
I am struggling with his crying. I have suggested he may be unwell and to phone a support helpline Samaritans or see a Doctor.
I know that I could put a boundary in not to answer his phone calls, but I am struggling with the concept of religion and the Good Samaritan and I feel like I am leaving him in his despair (and particularly that it might be depression, as many people with depression don't recognise how ill they are and won't see a doctor). I am struggling to stay on my side of the street and leave him to his own HP.
I would appreciate your ESH,
Thank you
and you might take anything you like and leave the rest. You may leave it all, if you wish. But this is my heartfelt ESH.
I have been through a period of weeping this week. I time of transition for me. And I am weeping in deep gratitude.
I think- in the situation like this- someone might want to run up and fix it. Wanting the person to stop and mop up.
In another situation it might be a sign of personal disintegration- and the beginning of the end?
A time for professional help, if that is available?
But, for me, on my journey weeping, and even more, has been a
sign of change and healing.
Take care, my friend.
I wonder, when he calls and is weeping, is he sober? (My AW and I were separated for a time, and I experienced both drunk and sober weeping. Some of it she remembers, some of it she does not. Some of it was genuine, some of it was manipulative. Each call was different, and required from me a different response.)
Your situation is your own, and it is important to listed to your HP, and decide what is best for you.
In a similar situation, I said "I would be happy to consider having you over more often when you are sober are able to prove to me that you are actively engaged in your recovery." (I did not define what "actively engaged" meant - I let her define that for herself.) In my wife's case, she sought professional help and showed me the papers from her group sessions as proof that she was actively engaged. (I let her move back in a few years ago, and her active engagement has lapsed. Depression is something she struggles with on a daily basis, so while she is still sober for the most part, she also doesn't tend to move from the sofa very often, with the exception of getting into her car and driving around randomly while she listens to music or podcasts. I've opted to carry on with my life, and do what I would do if she were not here, and recently, she's been talking about asking her doctor to change her meds to something that might work better for her.)
In my case, my response made it clear that it was in her power to change her situation, and she had action items: 1. be sober. 2. be active in her own recovery. That made it easier for me to point to what she needed to do, and be supportive while maintaining my boundaries and not enabling her. I'd say something like "It sounds like you are lonely and sad. I know you miss me and the pets, and we miss you too. It would be really nice to see you more often. Have you taken steps to seek recovery today?"
Take good care
It is so so difficult to do to detach with love and compassion when one is under stress, but he
will not have an incentive to seek help if you give in. Like Skorpi said, putting the power to
change in his lap will take the anxiety out of yours!!
This is just my take, and please use what you can and leave the rest. But alcoholics will cry and beg, I know because I went through that with my first one and they will cry and beg and promise but if theyre not in a program going to meetings every single day and working the steps and the slogans with a sponsor every single day, youre just going to have the same old Mary go round and it will never stop because he wont have the incentive
I just hate it when people would throw religion at me too, all you have to be forgiving and the good Samaritan and all of that well what about being a good Samaritan to myself? What about taking care of me and my needs???
As a child I had to forsake myself but I do not have to do it now. I can feel love and compassion and still say no no is a one word sentence and if it is too tempting, I would just not take his phone calls. One has the show sustained good fruit if they are really turning away from this debilitating disease that impacts everybody around it. They are really good at using emotions and manipulation to get what they want without having to do the work. If he keeps facing the consequences for his deeds, maybe just maybe he will get into serious program with a sponsor and to me he would have to be sober five years before I even considered living with him again and you know? Now that I am finally free from living with that, I would never go back. I would not even date someone who has an addiction history because they can slip back. This is just my take, please use what you can and leave the rest
I do know that each time I provided a safe place or soft landing, I interfered with their journey and possibly prolonged their pain. I had to work closely with my sponsor who knew me well and knew my circumstances to figure out healthy boundaries. I will say that I know my A(s) better than most others so also knew deep down when they were clean/sober vs. when they were active. There was no need to ask or pry.
My best suggestion is when in doubt, don't. Keep leaning into your program and your recovery and trust your HP and his plan for you.
Thank you all for your shares. They have all lifted my spirit.
I feel more resolved to maintain my boundaries, offer some support to find medical help if he asks for it and tell him we miss him and he is welcome when he is sober and in recovery. I can't go back to where I was and recognise this as a wobble that I can get through.
Thank you all once again for your messages. (())
Dear Better tomorrow
I have been reading a lot on how alcohol changes the brain and who is predisposed to addiction
I learned that somehow what happens is alcohol hijacks the parts of the brain that are concerned with survival. So the alcoholism becomes part of the survival issue. Then evebtiakky as they progress that alcohol is at the too of the list in front of everything else
I have also been reading a lot in self care. Sleep.is an essential. It is pretty hard to sleep around a active alcohol. Last year I spent 4 months in the living with an active alcoholic
He rarely slept although he spent a lot of time in the bedroom
He had no restorative rest.
Sleep deprivation is definitely part of what killed Prince
I sincerely doubt you are getting much restorative rest with this #protest# behavior
Indeed setting limits around an active alcoholic is indeed a formidable task
I don't know if your phone does not have a ringer.
In some ways for those of us who are around an alcoholic being needed feels safe and reassuring
Being out on my own feels like being at sea with no chartered course.
Saying no.does not mean we are uncaring
Saying no but we wish you well is indeed an art of discipline a d kindness
For me a
round an active alcoholic boy exhibiting anger is indeed an act of kindness. It is acknowledging they are unwell.
In order to be around an other person I.do nkt need to be in discomfort too.
Indeed I believe being able to.see an alcoholic without reacting is the act of the good samaritan.
That is indeed detachment with love. That is the acknowledgement they are their own person with the choices that go along with being human.
My life is very very challenging. Living with a. Alcoholic outside in the red zone. I may be able to do a great deal of detachment. I may be able to do a lot of self love. However being in direct proximity to someone living in chaos is a real strain. My self care is a precarious job
Balancing all the things I need to do is a uphill task
Getting the right combination is a challenge every day
If I put an active alcoholic in the equation ( as I had last year) then it affects my environment, my pace and my ability to test and restore myself
I am worthy of self care. Going without self care does not help another person be inspired to take care of themselves. Going without self care is no longer the way I show love to others.
Mutual aid is indeed part of the self help process. I am glad you are able to reach out and ask for reassurance.
Maresie