Todays reading talks to us about when we are asked to forgive someone who has hurt us. The author suggests that unless we have not
already condemned or judged the person asking for forgiveness, that there would be no reason for us to forgive them. Instead we would
have to forgive ourselves for judging to begin with.
A Scripture says: Judge not that ye be not judged. If we do judge - no matter how great the injury or how premeditated we are at fault.
The author goes on to say that we can forgive only ourselves and in doing so we also forgive the person whose actions we have been hurt by.
Todays Reminder:
Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, says me I must first make peace with myself before I can learn to love others. I must remind myself
constantly that I can never know any other persons motives and conditioning; I must, for my own sake, accept them as they are. A large
ingredient of that acceptance is to have loving tolerance.
Quotes:
Father forgive them, for they know not what they do (Luke)
And forgive me for judging and retaliating. Help me to forgive myself; I know this is the first step toward spiritual security.
My ESH has to do with learning to forgive the alcoholic in my life. Losing that resentment and judgment was so very important for me to gain my life and peace back.
As long as I sat in anger and judgment I could not move forward, to forgive the alcoholic or myself. The anger and resentment was so uncomfortable and am so happy
that Al-Anon gave me the answers to lift those burdens. Grateful member.
Wishing you all a wonderful day today!!
(Quick note, I do put quote marks in where appropriate, but when I post to the forum they disappear)!!
SunnyFrogs said
Apr 29, 2021
Good morning.
Forgiveness is still a touchy subject for me that I'm still working on. It's something I think I need to delve into on a deeper level in therapy tbh.
I think more than anything I need to find a way to forgive myself before I can truly forgive others. That's something I learned from Deepak Chopra actually,that one can't fully forgive others and shouldn't even try to until they first come to forgive theirself. And I do believe he's right for so many different reasons.
It's a dreary,rainy day here. I kinda like it because it gives me an excuse to be lazy and take it easy. I don't really need an excuse and can do that if I want but feel better having an excuse.
Debb said
Apr 29, 2021
I think that you are doing great SunnyFrogs, have a wonderful day today, it is good to be good to yourself!
mamalioness said
Apr 29, 2021
Dear Debbie
Thank you for your share on this. My stance is that some crimes are not forgivable. The crimes my sperm donor did against me were not forgivable and also he was not sorry for what he did. He felt entitled to destroy lives and so my job is not to struggle to forgive him but to struggle to forgive me for being so young and so powerless and so helpless during all of that evil. I think when people throw the scripture at me I tell them that if they look further HP has requirements for forgiveness and one of them is, to confess, to take responsibility for their wrongs, to make amends, to turn from the evil behavior, and then to ask for forgiveness, none of which my offender did
I struggled with this for a long time and felt inferior because I cannot forgive such evil but what I did do is ask my higher power to remove and to heal the hate and the bitterness and the resentment I have felt towards this evil entity I had the atrocious bad luck to be sired by. I focus on me and taking care of me and removing any resentment and bitterness is because it only hurts me. Please take what you can use and leave the rest
Debb said
Apr 29, 2021
Mamalioness, so sorry for what happened to you and am glad that your HP helped with that resentment and bitterness.
Maresie888 said
Apr 29, 2021
Debbie
In trauma services one of the key terms is developing a #,window of tolerance# I think that might be more apt in dealing with an alcoholic. The other issue of course I being able to.#hold the joy and the broken#. The window of tolerance being related to being able to.see the full picture in technicolor. That is no easy task
My qualifier at one time brought me joy. One another level he brought intense brokenness and disarray. I had to be able to manage holding both at the same time. Despite the sacrifice involved the pets we gathered (who I had to take full responsibility for on our separation) brought me immense joy.
I most certainly do not think about forgiveness. I consider acceptance. Acceptance that certain people are mired in addiction for me these days involves boundaries
For me recovery did not occur in #islands of isolation#.
I recover as part of a tribe. I was not able to recover within my family origin. I most certainly could not recover within the confines of my relationship with the qualifier. I most ceryainkydo recover within the confines of my tribe. I.do that every day all day. As a result of recovery I can certainly have empathy for the alcoholic. However my.empsthy has boundaries and no longer extends to anything remotely related to n.v sacrifice of myself on any terms
Maresie
Lyne said
Apr 29, 2021
Debb, thanks so much for your service and ESH. I struggled with forgiveness most of my life, and into early recovery. It's taken a lot of work and Betty was a tremendous help. For the most part I do forgive myself for all the mistakes and poor judgement I have used. I have for the most part forgiven my older brother for years of abuse, and I try to forgive those who have hurt me outside of my family circle. Forgiving my A has been the biggest challenge, but I have made great progress in this dept. Nothing is perfect so I cannot be in 100% forgiveness mode 24/7, but the majority of my time and thinking does wish to be free of anger, resentment, and hostility towards others. As I accomplish this goal, I find it to be a very freeing experience for me. And that's who this recovery is for, ME!
Debb said
Apr 29, 2021
One day at a time we are miracles in progress!!
Missing Betty for sure and just know she is smiling down on us!
{{SMILE}}
Debb said
Apr 29, 2021
TT thank you for your ESH, I like that forgiveness does not mean that I am superior.
I think that if I did feel superiority over anyone, I would be very uncomfortable and sad.
Like you, I also like that I will always be a work in progress.
Freetime said
Apr 29, 2021
Thank you, Debb, and everyone who has shared. This is such an important topic for me! Debb, your signature line is one of my favorites, and gives me so much clarity on forgiveness.
I have worked a lot on forgiveness. I have a favorite quote, which I found somewhere -- maybe here on MIP, I don't remember -- that turned on the light for me: "Forgiveness is releasing someone from a debt they can never repay."
I may still have to do my own work to recover from the debt, the loss someone left me with -- but if I can let go of the obsession, I can more easily move on. And I totally agree, in my experience, that self-forgiveness is the foundation.
Have a blessed day, everyone!
Iamhere said
Apr 29, 2021
Happy Thursday family....I started my day at the golf course and I have to admit that there is just something so refreshingly peaceful about being outside, in spring, after a rain, in a quiet place like the golf course. Last year when the pandemic began, I traveled to care for my parents and thus missed out on joining any golf leagues. I have joined 2 this year - Tuesday & Thursday and am really enjoying meeting new gals and playing. This morning, I fondly remembered that when I returned last year, I went to the golf course every morning and golfed alone (not really....HP was with me) some days. I realized today, that recovery has given me peace, joy and serenity no matter the company I keep (including self).
I would NEVER have had the courage to go to a golf course and golf alone before recovery. It's just not something I would have even considered, let alone tried/did. Recovery gave me the courage to try new things, have confidence in what I decide to do and to embrace the joy in this life. After a string of losses, Betty included, it has become so, so obvious to me that YOLO really, really is true - You Only Live Once. I am so, so grateful I've been able to work hard enough in recovery to really try to just seize the day - this day - and find and keep my joy.
I do believe that forgiveness is not optional; it's necessary. I too love Debb's signature line and it has spoken to me from her first day here. I spent so much of my life and my energy obsessed at times with justified anger. Our program tells me there is no such thing. I could not separate my anger from judging others, and for me, this cycle blocked me from inner peace and serenity. I battled for a long while because there were people and things I did not want to forgive and every person with more ESH in recovery kept suggesting I find a way - including outside help if necessary.
The steps helped greatly with self-forgiveness, forgiveness of others and amends. Yet, there were still some lingering people and things I felt I could never let go of or forgive. As with how I arrived at recovery, I found a way - when the pain of holding onto that negative energy and space in my heart became great enough. I do believe that each stage/phase of my life, journey and recovery has been divinely inspired and when I fight or impose my will long enough, I'll be led to the solution stage.
I love the analogy of the cat, by the tail, and who gets scratched. The only person I am hurting when I am holding onto anger and resentments and sitting in judgement of others is me. Those who harmed me are not loosing serenity over my hurt nor are they loosing sleep. It is I who suffers until/unless I find a way to get to the other side.
Today, I choose to be happy instead of right-fighting. I choose my serenity and peace over anger and resentments. Forgiveness really does not excuse bad behavior - it just frees my internal resources up for positive energy instead of negative. I am grateful for this program, all who came before me and all who continue to share ESH so I can keep growing, changing and becoming. I'm thrilled with progress today; perfection is overrated!! (((Hugs)))
Todays reading talks to us about when we are asked to forgive someone who has hurt us. The author suggests that unless we have not
already condemned or judged the person asking for forgiveness, that there would be no reason for us to forgive them. Instead we would
have to forgive ourselves for judging to begin with.
A Scripture says: Judge not that ye be not judged. If we do judge - no matter how great the injury or how premeditated we are at fault.
The author goes on to say that we can forgive only ourselves and in doing so we also forgive the person whose actions we have been hurt by.
Todays Reminder:
Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, says me I must first make peace with myself before I can learn to love others. I must remind myself
constantly that I can never know any other persons motives and conditioning; I must, for my own sake, accept them as they are. A large
ingredient of that acceptance is to have loving tolerance.
Quotes:
Father forgive them, for they know not what they do (Luke)
And forgive me for judging and retaliating. Help me to forgive myself; I know this is the first step toward spiritual security.
My ESH has to do with learning to forgive the alcoholic in my life. Losing that resentment and judgment was so very important for me to gain my life and peace back.
As long as I sat in anger and judgment I could not move forward, to forgive the alcoholic or myself. The anger and resentment was so uncomfortable and am so happy
that Al-Anon gave me the answers to lift those burdens. Grateful member.
Wishing you all a wonderful day today!!
(Quick note, I do put quote marks in where appropriate, but when I post to the forum they disappear)!!
Forgiveness is still a touchy subject for me that I'm still working on. It's something I think I need to delve into on a deeper level in therapy tbh.
I think more than anything I need to find a way to forgive myself before I can truly forgive others. That's something I learned from Deepak Chopra actually,that one can't fully forgive others and shouldn't even try to until they first come to forgive theirself. And I do believe he's right for so many different reasons.
It's a dreary,rainy day here. I kinda like it because it gives me an excuse to be lazy and take it easy. I don't really need an excuse and can do that if I want but feel better having an excuse.
Thank you for your share on this. My stance is that some crimes are not forgivable. The crimes my sperm donor did against me were not forgivable and also he was not sorry for what he did. He felt entitled to destroy lives and so my job is not to struggle to forgive him but to struggle to forgive me for being so young and so powerless and so helpless during all of that evil. I think when people throw the scripture at me I tell them that if they look further HP has requirements for forgiveness and one of them is, to confess, to take responsibility for their wrongs, to make amends, to turn from the evil behavior, and then to ask for forgiveness, none of which my offender did
I struggled with this for a long time and felt inferior because I cannot forgive such evil but what I did do is ask my higher power to remove and to heal the hate and the bitterness and the resentment I have felt towards this evil entity I had the atrocious bad luck to be sired by. I focus on me and taking care of me and removing any resentment and bitterness is because it only hurts me. Please take what you can use and leave the rest
Debbie
In trauma services one of the key terms is developing a #,window of tolerance# I think that might be more apt in dealing with an alcoholic. The other issue of course I being able to.#hold the joy and the broken#. The window of tolerance being related to being able to.see the full picture in technicolor. That is no easy task
My qualifier at one time brought me joy. One another level he brought intense brokenness and disarray. I had to be able to manage holding both at the same time. Despite the sacrifice involved the pets we gathered (who I had to take full responsibility for on our separation) brought me immense joy.
I most certainly do not think about forgiveness. I consider acceptance. Acceptance that certain people are mired in addiction for me these days involves boundaries
For me recovery did not occur in #islands of isolation#.
I recover as part of a tribe. I was not able to recover within my family origin. I most certainly could not recover within the confines of my relationship with the qualifier. I most ceryainkydo recover within the confines of my tribe. I.do that every day all day. As a result of recovery I can certainly have empathy for the alcoholic. However my.empsthy has boundaries and no longer extends to anything remotely related to n.v sacrifice of myself on any terms
Maresie
Missing Betty for sure and just know she is smiling down on us!
{{SMILE}}
I think that if I did feel superiority over anyone, I would be very uncomfortable and sad.
Like you, I also like that I will always be a work in progress.
I have worked a lot on forgiveness. I have a favorite quote, which I found somewhere -- maybe here on MIP, I don't remember -- that turned on the light for me: "Forgiveness is releasing someone from a debt they can never repay."
I may still have to do my own work to recover from the debt, the loss someone left me with -- but if I can let go of the obsession, I can more easily move on. And I totally agree, in my experience, that self-forgiveness is the foundation.
Have a blessed day, everyone!
I would NEVER have had the courage to go to a golf course and golf alone before recovery. It's just not something I would have even considered, let alone tried/did. Recovery gave me the courage to try new things, have confidence in what I decide to do and to embrace the joy in this life. After a string of losses, Betty included, it has become so, so obvious to me that YOLO really, really is true - You Only Live Once. I am so, so grateful I've been able to work hard enough in recovery to really try to just seize the day - this day - and find and keep my joy.
I do believe that forgiveness is not optional; it's necessary. I too love Debb's signature line and it has spoken to me from her first day here. I spent so much of my life and my energy obsessed at times with justified anger. Our program tells me there is no such thing. I could not separate my anger from judging others, and for me, this cycle blocked me from inner peace and serenity. I battled for a long while because there were people and things I did not want to forgive and every person with more ESH in recovery kept suggesting I find a way - including outside help if necessary.
The steps helped greatly with self-forgiveness, forgiveness of others and amends. Yet, there were still some lingering people and things I felt I could never let go of or forgive. As with how I arrived at recovery, I found a way - when the pain of holding onto that negative energy and space in my heart became great enough. I do believe that each stage/phase of my life, journey and recovery has been divinely inspired and when I fight or impose my will long enough, I'll be led to the solution stage.
I love the analogy of the cat, by the tail, and who gets scratched. The only person I am hurting when I am holding onto anger and resentments and sitting in judgement of others is me. Those who harmed me are not loosing serenity over my hurt nor are they loosing sleep. It is I who suffers until/unless I find a way to get to the other side.
Today, I choose to be happy instead of right-fighting. I choose my serenity and peace over anger and resentments. Forgiveness really does not excuse bad behavior - it just frees my internal resources up for positive energy instead of negative. I am grateful for this program, all who came before me and all who continue to share ESH so I can keep growing, changing and becoming. I'm thrilled with progress today; perfection is overrated!! (((Hugs)))