Todays reading asks whether we are justified in getting angry with a person who is in an alcoholic fog.
It is suggested that if we do get angry we are not accepting the "truth" that alcoholism is a disease.
Outbursts and accusations do not improve the situation and in fact increase our frustration. There are
times that we may need to express to the alcoholic that they crossed an important line, but confronting
them when they are in the midst of drinking is especially not an appropriate time.
Our feelings of outrage may momentarily relieve our pent-up emotions, but it actually just makes matters
worse because it just perpetuates the alcoholic's feelings of failure and sets up a vicious cycle of despair
for the both of us. This is where minding our own business comes into play and working the program so
that we can accept that our own happiness comes from within ourselves and not from the alcoholic we
are trying to change. Accepting that the alcoholic is responsible for their own sobriety is a difficult task
because we love that person, but we did not cause, nor can we control or cure them.
Todays Reminder:
I will pause and think before I say anything, lest my anger turns back upon me and makes my difficulties
even greater. I will know that well-times silence can give me command of the situation as angry reproaches
never can.
Quotes:
Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamour and evil speaking be put away from you." (Ephesians)
A soft answer turneth away wrath but grievous words stir up anger. (Proverbs)
My ESH:
I know that if I confront AH, actually at anytime, it feeds his need to perpetuate, what he views as his dominance.
There are issues of passive/aggression and narcissism within his personality, which are exacerbated when he is
drinking. I have learned to sit back and look at all of this in awe, because Im looking at one very tortured
human being. To say anything to him is like trying to have a conversation with a drunk in a bar, it just isnt
constructive. His reasoning is too askew, because there is so much deep-seated fear.
I have learned to stay away from his triggers and move on with my life. I chose to stay with him because I
do love him, and with the help of Al-Anon/MIP/HP I can see the disease and detach with love and compassion.
I do not need to have everything my own way and am grateful for what I do have instead of what I do not.
Wishing you all peace and light.
Lyne said
Apr 15, 2021
{{{Debb}}} Thanks for your service and what inspiring ESH. I used to try and try to talk to my A with logic, rational thinking, and yes, sometimes lots of anger but not in a mean or abusive manner. I've come full circle now more on the lines of what you do--with peace and love I'm trying to have a realistic attitude towards my A and not engage in useless battles. I just led a Tradition 4 meeting on my zoom F2F last week. Tradition 4 says that on a personal level, we cannot try to force our beliefs, actions, etc. on our A or others. We must treat them with dignity and respect and allow them to be who they are. I get to do me, my way. It hasn't come without a lot of work, but ODAT things keep getting better.
Maresie888 said
Apr 15, 2021
It is real hard not to be angry. However it is possible to be #regulated#
Around certain qualifiers I stop.taking care of myself
The issue is of course you are angry but what di you do with it. In al anon I learned to Channel that anger
Without al anon it was not pretty
SunnyFrogs said
Apr 15, 2021
Good evening
I think it's normal to get angry but I agree with Maresie,it's what you do with it that matters.
Sometimes it's hard to control my anger and not lash out but with the help of this program it is getting much better.
Iamhere said
Apr 15, 2021
Happy Thursday MIP. Thank you Debb for your service and the daily. Thank you all for your shares and ESH. I tend to sit with my feelings, especially those which want to pull me to the dark side. My sponsor has been a great help with my anger, and I believe, for me, it's been my go-to reaction for so many things for so many years that I can't just 'stop' processing with, "I am angry."
If I am willing to sit with my feelings, and remember I am a person in recovery who wants to be/do/act better & healthier, more often than not, my anger is a secondary response to fear or disappointment. When my A(s) or others are acting in a way that's crossing boundaries (unacceptable), I am grateful that Al-Anon has given me choices. I have had to figure out that others are going to be who they are, and when I am hurt, angry, mad, disappointed, let down, etc. that's entirely on me. I am choosing to take personally the ramblings of another who has a disease, or is having a bad day, or a bad moment, etc.
Both of my grandmothers had dementia. My mother has it now. To this point, my mother is not mean, yet both of my grandma's were. They would lash out, say mean things, be grumpy, ungrateful, etc. Most of which was contrary to the loving person I had grown up to know. I did not take it personally as I truly believed I would probably be grumpy too if I couldn't remember life, names, dates, faces, foods, etc. I actually did all that I could to make the visit as pleasant as possible, just in case it would be the last time I'd spend time with them.
I treat my alcoholics no different. They have a disease, a thinking, emotion-changing, personality-changing disease. When I expect them to behave my way or a certain way, I'm setting myself up for disappointment. While I try to be a loving person, kind person, thoughtful person, etc. I am NOT all the time. We are all humans and when we sit in judgement of another, we've stepped sideways of our progress and program.
I am grateful that this program gives me tools to help me deal with others in my life, one of which is unconditional acceptance and love. I love my people deeply, yet can hate this disease. When I sit with my feelings, and examine the reality, it is in looking at myself where I find my solutions (with the help of my HP & sponsor).
I played golf twice today. I'm a tired gal. Hope everyone had a great day!!
DavidG said
Apr 15, 2021
Good topic, Debbs, Lyne, Sunny and IAm.
Feelings- emotions came up at my very first Alanon meeting. It sowed a seed.
I called my anger out- for what it was- rage, Livid rage... ...something I found
was impossible to escape- because everywhere I went it went with me!
I think that group sharing is the best palliative- more so than the steps themselves.
Because I saw and sensed the same in others. Made me feel less alone. And I suppose,
slowly... I began to articulate the pain that anger bought me.
Anger- fear- are desired emotions- in moderate doses. They enable us to survive-
or so I learned. And joy, happiness, love, and other good stuff is found in the same
area. The saddest hopeless part- is that this gets buried. Lost. Trampled on.
Someone once described the drinker as an india-rubber ball. We try to get close-
we try to connect; make contact. But in a drinking state we just bounce off- this
is- if any ever bounced off of a brick wall!
Loving, caring detachment- much easier said than done! ...
Ileana said
Apr 16, 2021
Thank you Debb for your service and to everyone who shared, I got a lot from your shares.
I am the kind who bottles anger up then it turns into resentment.
I guess I need to be more in touch with my anger, acknowledge it and channel it like you sayd ...
mamalioness said
Apr 20, 2021
Dear Debb. I am not sure I agree with the author on this, I think anger is a sign that I need to set a boundary, take care of myself, its not the anger that is the bad emotion it is how I respond to it or in my case, too many times I act out and that is not good. Anger is OK and it needs to be acknowledged and accepted and recognized for what it is and then I do I step 10 on the origins of it and what is causing me to be so angry and is it old stuff coming up or is it new stuff and then Ill stop and I ask myself OK what can I do? What can I do to take care of me? What is the next right thing to do to take care of me? But I definitely believe that anger can be a sign, a good sign, that we are at least feeling our emotions but how we respond is the big key. I still have to work on this because I , Still can go into acting out mode real quick. So my self training has been to stop and breathe and wait until my brain is all regulated together and then sit down and figure out what I can do but I must release the emotion and the only way Im going to release it is to acknowledge it and allow it to pass through Me
PosiesandPuppies said
Apr 20, 2021
I spent all my life trying to repress any anger I was feeling. I felt guilty for being angry.
I still haven't unpacked why that is.
Anger helped me to take action when I needed to most.
Anger also turns to resentments if I am not careful - ie: if I try and push it down/pack it away. I am working on how to handle anger in a more productive way for me.
I am finding that Gratitude helps me to combat feeling angry.
Thank you all for your shares on this topic...things to ponder when I need them...
&
Maresie888 said
Apr 20, 2021
Dear De
I.most certainly am.abe to get to a point.of being to look at an alcoholic and see how they hurt themselves. That is without intervening. It is not my job to fix them. I resigned from that one!
I have to set lots of boundaries these days. That is one Core issue with codependency that I have been addressing. Those of us who are codependent are notoriously poor at boundaries. I have to set my own boundaries in not helping people unless they ask.and even then weighing whether zi have the ba width to do that
I
Of course one way to feel better is to help.someone else but they have to want to be heloed. In the case of many alcoholics of course they do my want helo at all much of the time. Help.is always available.
In addition in trauma bonding we bond with people with similar traumas. I most definitely bonded with the qualifier regarding his mother. However that bond is not necessarily healthy.
Being around people who are emotionally dysregulated is never healthy. They lash out at a moment's notice and it is extremely unpleasant. Then afterwards they want to pretend nothing happened or claim their profound victimization justifies their actions.
I know I have dealt with many people who behave comoletely inappropriately and now I have limits on how and when I will tolerate it.
Certainly for me seeing the addict in technicolor helos because then I can give up the notion that so can somehow helo them
I have a great deal of solace from being able to detach enough to see certain people in technicolor because of course then I can see myself in technicolor and that is extremely useful
Maresie
-- Edited by Maresie888 on Tuesday 20th of April 2021 10:16:59 PM
Todays reading asks whether we are justified in getting angry with a person who is in an alcoholic fog.
It is suggested that if we do get angry we are not accepting the "truth" that alcoholism is a disease.
Outbursts and accusations do not improve the situation and in fact increase our frustration. There are
times that we may need to express to the alcoholic that they crossed an important line, but confronting
them when they are in the midst of drinking is especially not an appropriate time.
Our feelings of outrage may momentarily relieve our pent-up emotions, but it actually just makes matters
worse because it just perpetuates the alcoholic's feelings of failure and sets up a vicious cycle of despair
for the both of us. This is where minding our own business comes into play and working the program so
that we can accept that our own happiness comes from within ourselves and not from the alcoholic we
are trying to change. Accepting that the alcoholic is responsible for their own sobriety is a difficult task
because we love that person, but we did not cause, nor can we control or cure them.
Todays Reminder:
I will pause and think before I say anything, lest my anger turns back upon me and makes my difficulties
even greater. I will know that well-times silence can give me command of the situation as angry reproaches
never can.
Quotes:
Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamour and evil speaking be put away from you." (Ephesians)
A soft answer turneth away wrath but grievous words stir up anger. (Proverbs)
My ESH:
I know that if I confront AH, actually at anytime, it feeds his need to perpetuate, what he views as his dominance.
There are issues of passive/aggression and narcissism within his personality, which are exacerbated when he is
drinking. I have learned to sit back and look at all of this in awe, because Im looking at one very tortured
human being. To say anything to him is like trying to have a conversation with a drunk in a bar, it just isnt
constructive. His reasoning is too askew, because there is so much deep-seated fear.
I have learned to stay away from his triggers and move on with my life. I chose to stay with him because I
do love him, and with the help of Al-Anon/MIP/HP I can see the disease and detach with love and compassion.
I do not need to have everything my own way and am grateful for what I do have instead of what I do not.
Wishing you all peace and light.
Around certain qualifiers I stop.taking care of myself
The issue is of course you are angry but what di you do with it. In al anon I learned to Channel that anger
Without al anon it was not pretty
I think it's normal to get angry but I agree with Maresie,it's what you do with it that matters.
Sometimes it's hard to control my anger and not lash out but with the help of this program it is getting much better.
If I am willing to sit with my feelings, and remember I am a person in recovery who wants to be/do/act better & healthier, more often than not, my anger is a secondary response to fear or disappointment. When my A(s) or others are acting in a way that's crossing boundaries (unacceptable), I am grateful that Al-Anon has given me choices. I have had to figure out that others are going to be who they are, and when I am hurt, angry, mad, disappointed, let down, etc. that's entirely on me. I am choosing to take personally the ramblings of another who has a disease, or is having a bad day, or a bad moment, etc.
Both of my grandmothers had dementia. My mother has it now. To this point, my mother is not mean, yet both of my grandma's were. They would lash out, say mean things, be grumpy, ungrateful, etc. Most of which was contrary to the loving person I had grown up to know. I did not take it personally as I truly believed I would probably be grumpy too if I couldn't remember life, names, dates, faces, foods, etc. I actually did all that I could to make the visit as pleasant as possible, just in case it would be the last time I'd spend time with them.
I treat my alcoholics no different. They have a disease, a thinking, emotion-changing, personality-changing disease. When I expect them to behave my way or a certain way, I'm setting myself up for disappointment. While I try to be a loving person, kind person, thoughtful person, etc. I am NOT all the time. We are all humans and when we sit in judgement of another, we've stepped sideways of our progress and program.
I am grateful that this program gives me tools to help me deal with others in my life, one of which is unconditional acceptance and love. I love my people deeply, yet can hate this disease. When I sit with my feelings, and examine the reality, it is in looking at myself where I find my solutions (with the help of my HP & sponsor).
I played golf twice today. I'm a tired gal. Hope everyone had a great day!!
Feelings- emotions came up at my very first Alanon meeting. It sowed a seed.
I called my anger out- for what it was- rage, Livid rage... ...something I found
was impossible to escape- because everywhere I went it went with me!
I think that group sharing is the best palliative- more so than the steps themselves.
Because I saw and sensed the same in others. Made me feel less alone. And I suppose,
slowly... I began to articulate the pain that anger bought me.
Anger- fear- are desired emotions- in moderate doses. They enable us to survive-
or so I learned. And joy, happiness, love, and other good stuff is found in the same
area. The saddest hopeless part- is that this gets buried. Lost. Trampled on.
Someone once described the drinker as an india-rubber ball. We try to get close-
we try to connect; make contact. But in a drinking state we just bounce off- this
is- if any ever bounced off of a brick wall!
Loving, caring detachment- much easier said than done!
...
I am the kind who bottles anger up then it turns into resentment.
I guess I need to be more in touch with my anger, acknowledge it and channel it like you sayd ...
I still haven't unpacked why that is.
Anger helped me to take action when I needed to most.
Anger also turns to resentments if I am not careful - ie: if I try and push it down/pack it away. I am working on how to handle anger in a more productive way for me.
I am finding that Gratitude helps me to combat feeling angry.
Thank you all for your shares on this topic...things to ponder when I need them...
Dear De
I.most certainly am.abe to get to a point.of being to look at an alcoholic and see how they hurt themselves. That is without intervening. It is not my job to fix them. I resigned from that one!
I have to set lots of boundaries these days. That is one Core issue with codependency that I have been addressing. Those of us who are codependent are notoriously poor at boundaries. I have to set my own boundaries in not helping people unless they ask.and even then weighing whether zi have the ba width to do that
I
Of course one way to feel better is to help.someone else but they have to want to be heloed. In the case of many alcoholics of course they do my want helo at all much of the time. Help.is always available.
In addition in trauma bonding we bond with people with similar traumas. I most definitely bonded with the qualifier regarding his mother. However that bond is not necessarily healthy.
Being around people who are emotionally dysregulated is never healthy. They lash out at a moment's notice and it is extremely unpleasant. Then afterwards they want to pretend nothing happened or claim their profound victimization justifies their actions.
I know I have dealt with many people who behave comoletely inappropriately and now I have limits on how and when I will tolerate it.
Certainly for me seeing the addict in technicolor helos because then I can give up the notion that so can somehow helo them
I have a great deal of solace from being able to detach enough to see certain people in technicolor because of course then I can see myself in technicolor and that is extremely useful
Maresie
-- Edited by Maresie888 on Tuesday 20th of April 2021 10:16:59 PM