So, last week we told our daughter she had to leave if she wouldn't get help. We talked and she actually said she wanted to go and had a safe place to stay. All was peaceful - until yesterday! She called her father and asked to come home, he told her yes if she would follow the rules. She came home, I typed up an expectation contract which was really not extreme at all - she took exception to random drug tests, not coming into our home smelling like weed and no guys in her bedroom. Told her they were not negotiable and that she would have to find other accommodations if she wouldn't sign. I know I am doing the right thing, but now she is texting me non-stop how she is going to live in her car and nobody loves her or cares about her and she just wants to die - she prays that she never wakes up. My gut is telling me this is manipulation, but my heart is breaking. Am I wrong here?
Iamhere said
Mar 11, 2021
There's never a right/wrong way to set boundaries. I have been where you are (more than once) and what I know from my experience is mine will try everything/anything, when active in this disease, to 'have their cake and eat it too'. I feel your heartbreak and know it all too well. It took me being consistent with my boundaries for my guys to finally understand that No means No, not maybe.
The dance of this disease often has all members of the family doing things they would not do in a normal mind set. I know that retraining my guys for what is/is not acceptable was painful, hard and gut wrenching. Yet, I am were I am today and they are where they are today because of consistency.
Before recovery, I would 'try' to impose boundaries. I was not well-versed, and most were punishing instead of personal for self-preservation. Needless to say, I was not consistent before either and could be swayed. Whatever your boundaries are or need to be work much better with being consistent.
I'm not a label person so try not to wonder why mine are doing what they're doing. Instead, I just try to focus on what I need, and what I need to do for a peaceful moment, day, life, etc. Hang in there and keep coming back - you're not alone!
mamamary1964 said
Mar 11, 2021
I have no choice but to be consistent here. I cannot allow her to manipulate the situation. She made her choice to leave after deciding she doesn't want rules. That is on her not me, but I still feel empty inside. My expectations were not extreme at all and are very necessary for harmony in my home. My son and husband are both recovered addicts "new creations in Christ" and I cannot have her darkness looming over our light. I love my daughter with all my heart, but she wants what she wants and isn't willing to waver. She came home yesterday and her clothes and bags are thrown all over the house, her bedroom that i cleaned out is a pigsty once again. I can't live this way. I missed her, but was at peace. Thank you for your words
serenity47 said
Mar 11, 2021
I know all to well the heartache of an addicted daughter. When she was active in her disease, there was nobody or nothing that we said or did that changed her behaviour.
I had a huge false belief that I had some kind of control or influence over her and dragged myself literally through the trenches on a rescue mission of sorts.
She manipulated , she lied, she stole from us and on and on. I lived in a state of fear and disbelief for a couple of years worried about the outcomes of her life.
It honestly never occurred to me that as her mother I had any other choice. I felt a huge sense of responsibility, misplaced guilt etc for another adults life. She was young (17) when it all began .
Fast forward to today and she is living a life that I always dreamed she would be. Happy, successful, and we have a very good healthy relationship.
The thing is I could have saved myself a lot of pain and anguish if I had dropped my end of the rope sooner and sought help for myself instead of trying to fix/save someone else who did not want to be fixed/saved at that time.
I learned to stand back and allow her the dignity to experience her own consequences. No more bailouts, loans, solutions etc. What a relief but it was not easy and it was not well received initially lol.
My life is just as important as the rest of my family and for a long long while i put myself on the back burner as i thought that is what a good mother did. I am thankful that I learned another way.
mamamary1964 said
Mar 11, 2021
Serenity47 thank you for those words of encouragement. I dream of the day my daughter stops blaming everybody else for her problems and decides to take control of her own life. As parents we are not perfect, but we love the best way we know how. She knows we love her although she says differently. I have to come to terms that she belongs to God and He is the one who can change her NOT me. So thank you, I pray for the day when my daughter and I have a loving relationship without mental illness and drugs.
DavidG said
Mar 11, 2021
I have a friend who is a hotshot in AA- who still smokes weed. Not all day and every day, mind you.
I know people who rate weed along with smack [heroin] and speed [meth]. It is my personal view that alcohol causes much more harm than weed, overall.
I think that respecting your standards in your home is a no brainer.
When I was growing up- 16 to 18 year sold was the time to cut the apron strings. 21 was the magical age when we could get rotten drunk legally. Most males especially had been sly drinking for four years. But a 21st birthday party was a big rite of passage- where a lad was expected to drink from a yard glass.
At my age of 21 i lost two uncles to suicide- and that cast a long shadow over the year.
Today people say that our kids fully mature at 30 [daughters] and 33 [sons]!
Both our daughters live fairly close- and we have constant contact with grand-kids- so growing up and moving on has been much less disruptive. Our son lives a long way away- close to his partners folks.
A lot of us in Alanon are suffering from generational trends- so no-on in particular is at fault.
I believe that church culture is a great back-up and support.
And it is a place where everyone pitches in. We are all involved.
My beliefs come from Europe, middle east- and a little from the far east. My family values stem from this, along with the culture of Polynesia.
I was at my Alanon meeting last night. 5 members. Up until now there have only been 2 or 3 of us.
Our whole country is due to come out of lock-down today- which is a relief!
I am out the door today- for two weeks holiday... so looking forward to the change. ...
Take care, Mama...
...I am continuing to pray for your situation... and as you read this, would you kindly spare a thought for me?
Thanks... ...
mamamary1964 said
Mar 11, 2021
Service Worker - thank you for your words. I fall into the "weed" is a drug that I don't want in my home category. I know socially it is much more acceptable now than ever before; however, I have noticed the weed of today is NOT the weed of my day the 70's - it is quite addictive and IMHO a gateway drug. That being said, we are a Christian home and my daughter wants to live a secular life under my roof - I cannot have that. She refuses to follow my rules; no guys in her room, random drug testing and changing out of her weed stinking clothing before entering the house, They are very lenient expectations - I will not bend. I am standing behind 2 Chronicles 20:17 Take your positions (my boundries) then stand still and watch the Lord's victory.
Maresie888 said
Mar 11, 2021
The smell of weed is really terrible
Setting boundaries is a hard one
One of the people I know is currently testing my boundaries. I am not moving on that
There are other options for people with substance abuse programs they can go to rehab
Whatever way the current situation is entirely her doing
mamamary1964 said
Mar 11, 2021
Maresie888 exactly! I told her we would help her get into a good facility, she cried "all you want to do is get rid of me and send me away" she doesn't want help and I am not going to sit idly by and watch her destroy herself and my family in the process. She knows we love her she is choosing this route she can always come home if she agrees to abide by the rules of my home.
a4l said
Mar 11, 2021
I think the expectations are reasonable. The delivery though is a bit strange in a signed contract form. It feels controlling. Of course we are controlling as homeowners. But do we need to extend that in our approach to our families? Just my opinion. God knows I'd probably unlawfully lock my adult children in a safe room if they turned out to suffer addiction and i know even that wouldn't work. Hard road.
mamamary1964 said
Mar 12, 2021
I don't consider it controlling at all. My daughter has ALWAYS rebelled against rules, having it written out and signed is a reminder to her that we are serious. Maybe that wouldn't work for some, but for her it is necessary. This is MY home and she has "hidden" guys in her bedroom only to come out when we go to work. She has dealt drugs out of my home, her brother was beaten up when he went to "rescue" her from a deal gone wrong - I went through a summer of hell, so yes, a written document is absolutely necessary - she needs to know who is "in contro" of this house. either way, she has decided not to sign and to move out (which was my hope believe it or not).
pinkchip said
Mar 12, 2021
I wouldn't take A41's comment as criticism. The point is, Alanon will teach the 3 C's which is - You can't control, cure, and didn't cause this. So, basically a contract is a boundary but it's for you and not the addict - As long as you know when you set boundaries whether written or oral, they are for you and not the addict. Addicts will do what they do. No contract will stop them or change their behavior unless they want to do it. I guess it's a bit of a semantics thing. You set forth your boundaries for your home and what you will do if boundaries aren't respected....which they usually aren't by an active addict. And like you said...she wasn't about to start respecting your boundaries anyhow....
mamamary1964 said
Mar 12, 2021
Yes, I realize i didn't cause it can't control or cure it, but the contract is for MY benefit and the rest of the family. Something tangible we can justify if breached. At any rate she's out so that takes a weight off my shoulders. She did get pulled over twice today, once just got a ticket the second time got arrested for weed (in PA where she apparently is it is not legal) she is still indifferent and I told her it's her problem figure it out. It is liberating to step away from her chaos, but I still do worry about what she is doing to her future. Oh well, she is 21 years old, knows right from wrong and will have to pay the consequences of her actions.
Iamhere said
Mar 12, 2021
I recall the many days/nights of extensive worry and anxiety over the disease raging in my sons. I lost sleep, friends, sanity, and much, much more concerned for them, their lives, their futures, etc. At some point after being in Al-Anon for a while, I woke up with the thoughts/mantra that, "It was not healthy for me to worry about another - health, sanity, future - more than they do!"
This truly helped me realize how powerless I was over what they did, said, etc. I even felt guilty when they landed in jail until I realized I slept so much better knowing where they were. I really, really had to just let go of any expectations of normal when the disease was active and trust my HP as best I know/knew how.
In my case, I did have to remind myself over and over that I did my job as best I knew how. I did teach my kids right from wrong, etc. The disease doesn't care about any of that and it's far more powerful than I. I will share that we were advised in a couple of treatment centers to have written contracts for rules, expectations, etc. and they never did work around here.
Hang in there mama - be gentle with you and know you're not alone!
Maresie888 said
Mar 13, 2021
Well the addiction is working for her right now. I want life on my terms too don't you?
mamamary1964 said
Mar 13, 2021
I use to think I wanted life on my terms, but I really want life according to God's will. Obviously she isn't there yet. I love her but I have to put her in His hands. Psalm 46:10
a4l said
Mar 14, 2021
Dear Mary, It definitely wasn't my intention to criticize or offend you. It's very stressful having a loved one in the throes of active addiction. Take good care of you, with prayers for your family.
mamamary1964 said
Mar 15, 2021
a4l - I wasn't offended, I'm just exhausted. Nothing works with this kid. I know she needs to be gone (we changed the locks yesterday) - it's just hard she is literally going to be 21 in 2 weeks I never thought I'd be putting my baby girl out on the street. I'm leaving it in His hands, trying not to pick up the phone and call her, it's hard, but I'm taking it one hour at a time.
So, last week we told our daughter she had to leave if she wouldn't get help. We talked and she actually said she wanted to go and had a safe place to stay. All was peaceful - until yesterday! She called her father and asked to come home, he told her yes if she would follow the rules. She came home, I typed up an expectation contract which was really not extreme at all - she took exception to random drug tests, not coming into our home smelling like weed and no guys in her bedroom. Told her they were not negotiable and that she would have to find other accommodations if she wouldn't sign. I know I am doing the right thing, but now she is texting me non-stop how she is going to live in her car and nobody loves her or cares about her and she just wants to die - she prays that she never wakes up. My gut is telling me this is manipulation, but my heart is breaking. Am I wrong here?
The dance of this disease often has all members of the family doing things they would not do in a normal mind set. I know that retraining my guys for what is/is not acceptable was painful, hard and gut wrenching. Yet, I am were I am today and they are where they are today because of consistency.
Before recovery, I would 'try' to impose boundaries. I was not well-versed, and most were punishing instead of personal for self-preservation. Needless to say, I was not consistent before either and could be swayed. Whatever your boundaries are or need to be work much better with being consistent.
I'm not a label person so try not to wonder why mine are doing what they're doing. Instead, I just try to focus on what I need, and what I need to do for a peaceful moment, day, life, etc. Hang in there and keep coming back - you're not alone!
I know all to well the heartache of an addicted daughter. When she was active in her disease, there was nobody or nothing that we said or did that changed her behaviour.
I had a huge false belief that I had some kind of control or influence over her and dragged myself literally through the trenches on a rescue mission of sorts.
She manipulated , she lied, she stole from us and on and on. I lived in a state of fear and disbelief for a couple of years worried about the outcomes of her life.
It honestly never occurred to me that as her mother I had any other choice. I felt a huge sense of responsibility, misplaced guilt etc for another adults life. She was young (17) when it all began .
Fast forward to today and she is living a life that I always dreamed she would be. Happy, successful, and we have a very good healthy relationship.
The thing is I could have saved myself a lot of pain and anguish if I had dropped my end of the rope sooner and sought help for myself instead of trying to fix/save someone else who did not want to be fixed/saved at that time.
I learned to stand back and allow her the dignity to experience her own consequences. No more bailouts, loans, solutions etc. What a relief but it was not easy and it was not well received initially lol.
My life is just as important as the rest of my family and for a long long while i put myself on the back burner as i thought that is what a good mother did. I am thankful that I learned another way.
I know people who rate weed along with smack [heroin] and speed [meth]. It is my personal view that alcohol causes much more harm than weed, overall.
I think that respecting your standards in your home is a no brainer.
When I was growing up- 16 to 18 year sold was the time to cut the apron strings. 21 was the magical age when we could get rotten drunk legally. Most males especially had been sly drinking for four years. But a 21st birthday party was a big rite of passage- where a lad was expected to drink from a yard glass.
At my age of 21 i lost two uncles to suicide- and that cast a long shadow over the year.
Today people say that our kids fully mature at 30 [daughters] and 33 [sons]!
Both our daughters live fairly close- and we have constant contact with grand-kids- so growing up and moving on has been much less disruptive. Our son lives a long way away- close to his partners folks.
A lot of us in Alanon are suffering from generational trends- so no-on in particular is at fault.
I believe that church culture is a great back-up and support.
And it is a place where everyone pitches in. We are all involved.
My beliefs come from Europe, middle east- and a little from the far east. My family values stem from this, along with the culture of Polynesia.
I was at my Alanon meeting last night. 5 members. Up until now there have only been 2 or 3 of us.
Our whole country is due to come out of lock-down today- which is a relief!
I am out the door today- for two weeks holiday... so looking forward to the change.
...
Take care, Mama...
...I am continuing to pray for your situation... and as you read this, would you kindly spare a thought for me?
Setting boundaries is a hard one
One of the people I know is currently testing my boundaries. I am not moving on that
There are other options for people with substance abuse programs they can go to rehab
Whatever way the current situation is entirely her doing
I think the expectations are reasonable. The delivery though is a bit strange in a signed contract form. It feels controlling. Of course we are controlling as homeowners. But do we need to extend that in our approach to our families? Just my opinion. God knows I'd probably unlawfully lock my adult children in a safe room if they turned out to suffer addiction and i know even that wouldn't work. Hard road.
This truly helped me realize how powerless I was over what they did, said, etc. I even felt guilty when they landed in jail until I realized I slept so much better knowing where they were. I really, really had to just let go of any expectations of normal when the disease was active and trust my HP as best I know/knew how.
In my case, I did have to remind myself over and over that I did my job as best I knew how. I did teach my kids right from wrong, etc. The disease doesn't care about any of that and it's far more powerful than I. I will share that we were advised in a couple of treatment centers to have written contracts for rules, expectations, etc. and they never did work around here.
Hang in there mama - be gentle with you and know you're not alone!