Hi peeps. Mel here. I was a member of this forum a few years ago, and the fellowship of this board helped me to leave an abusive relationship. I've been doing OK since- my kid is doing great and I feel like I am thriving. I come here today to talk about my brother Jimmy. My mother has just expressed to me that she thinks he might kill her in her sleep. and she confirmed that she was not joking. A little history- we were abused as kids. Our mother was a child herself when she spawned us and she didn't take very good care of us. However, in her later years, she has really compensated. My siblings and I have forgiven her and have a close relationship with her. I really respect my mother for her ability to adapt and learn. I think she really loves us and she turns herself inside out nowdays to do things for us- she is making up for the past and that can get pretty co-dependent. Nonetheless, we have all moved on. Except Jimmy. Jimmy is very ill. He still lives at home and blames our mother for everything. He drinks 24-7 and basically, at the age of 37, acts like an old man in a nursing home. He's never had a relationship or launched his life in any way. he just gets drunk, watches sport, and abuses my parents. And to be fair, they low-key deserve it. They were shi**y parents. he is kind of right when he says they f***ed him up. They really did. He is obsessed with our mother tho. My brother Peter got sober a few years ago and now he's doing a PHD in medical research. I'm so excited for him but he calls me regularly to discuss what we should do about Jimmy. I just learned that he is moving back home tomorrow to help my parents deal with Jim. That's not fair. Peter has only been sober for 2 years- he doesn't need this level of responsibility. He's doing so well. I'm angry that my parents lack of action might f*** up Pete's life. I'm angry that my parents are so weak. I'm angry that they didn't intervene earlier and get help for Jimbo. I don't think "detach" is ok because my siblings are taking action. I tried talking to my mother tonight and she just wants to complain. She says she is scared Jim will kill her, but she wont do anything. She will let Pete move home to protect her, but she wont do anything. I could use some feedback. I'm angry.
Edited for language.
-- Edited by Iamhere on Friday 5th of March 2021 01:53:45 PM
Debb said
Mar 5, 2021
Youknowme, welcome back, happy that you and your children are now safe and happy.
I do not see how you can force anyone to do what they do not want to do. I totally
understand your angst and fears. We do learn, under these types of alcoholic
circumstances, in Al-Anon, that minding our own business and leaning on our HP
are the best tools to use. Are you attending face to face meetings locally, because
that would give you the support that you need right now.
Freetime said
Mar 5, 2021
Welcome, {{{{Mel,}}} I most certainly remember you -- I was thinking of you recently. I am sorry for what brings you back here. Anger and fear -- I can relate!
As I read your sharing, one thing that comes to my mind is the page in How Al-Anon Works, that speaks to Anyone Confronted with Violence. It says "There are times when, in order to work through especially challenging circumstances, we may need more specialized support from mental, spiritual, physical, or legal advisors." Where I live, there is something called Adult Protective Services that is supposed to look into situations where elders may be in danger of abuse or neglect.
Is there a possibility that your family does not have to handle this alone? I don't know, and I'm in no position to give advice. But I do know your feelings are real. When faced with such frightening situations, the slogan One Day At A Time has helped me get through. It also helps me to imagine my loved ones in the care of their own Higher Power.
All the best to you -- I hope you will keep coming back.
Maresie888 said
Mar 5, 2021
Enmeshment is really hard to he around. When I last visited my family it was all enmeshment, crisis and which was the bigger victim.
Then it was dressed up to be all okay
One of my core issues has been I never got to have the functional family. Crisis was the norm in my family . Rescue was also the norm in my family. The more heroic the better. For some of us the way we feel better is about helping others. Want to feel better: help.another.
However in al anon we learn to negotiate as to what the boundary is in #helping#
I can really relate to your anger, consternation and fear.
One way that I can neutralize how awful I feel about others drowning in front of me is to put the focus back on ne. That is establishing a more secure base for myself.
This is a great place to come and be heard and be known.
Maresie
DavidG said
Mar 8, 2021
Hi Mel... nice to see y'all back here.
Not a good situation! Back to square one for me. I hear you ma'am...
Enigmatic said
Mar 14, 2021
Hey Mel, good to hear from you!
I feel for you, that is a tough, tough situation...I think that watching someone close to you go through avoidable suffering, especially when you know it may actually involve death, is one of the most difficult things to make peace with. I never even came close until I found AlAnon, and even then it was extremely difficult...
I page I have underlined, highlighted, and just shy of tattooed on my skin is page 203 in Courage to Change. It starts off "The people I love won't take care of themselves, so I have to do it. How will they survive unless I...?"
I always had the moxy to dive in, the drive to 'make things happen', and the stubbornness to exert my will on others (always temporary, always unintended and usually undesirable outcomes).
P. 203 talks about the 'natural order to life - a chain of events that a Higher Power has in mind.' I don't believe in an active hand of god directing things, only cause and effect: I don't believe that everything happens FOR a reason, but I believe that there IS a reason that everything happens.
People do what they are moved to do in that moment based on the entire collection of events and experiences in their lives. I may convince them temporarily to make a short term adjustment, but the much larger weight of their life experiences will always, always move them in their own direction. Sometimes that direction is tragic, always that direction is difficult to stand by and watch.
Yet I think about how long it took me to reach a point where I felt the need to change and realize that I wasn't ready to change until I was, well, ready to change. It didn't need to take that long, but that's how long it took ME. When I saw it on my own time, however, it was powerful.
C2C p. 124 was really helpful for me, as was ODAT p. 128 also very powerful reminder:
' ...I will not interfere with the life of anyone else, even though I am motivated only by a desire to help.' "There is a dnger in taking on another's duty - danger that we may neglect our own, and that we may deprive them of what they may learn from finding their own solutions."
I heard somewhere that recovery is not for the faint of heart, and that is so true...Also, that doing the right thing is not always easy, also true. The rewards of both, however, are so worth it.
I just know that if it were not for the wisdom and reminders of AlAnon, I would still be thinking that I knew what should or shouldn't happen in the life of others, interfering with other people's lives, and still without a shred of peace or serenity in my own life. I am very grateful for the lessons I was allowed to learn that brought me here, only because of the incredible blessings for me and those that had to deal with me
Hang in there You, good to see you here, keep coming back
Youknowme said
Mar 17, 2021
Thank you everyone. It's lovely to connect with you all again.
I know I have been pretty erratic popping in with drama and disappearing again over the last couple of years.
I suppose once I got free of my terrible relationship I wanted to stop thinking about it, and that worked for me for a while.
And of course, bit by bit, all the old isms are creeping back in; I'm so reactionary and irritable and obsessive about what others are doing again; I gained so much when I worked this program with you all back then, and isn't it funny that I kept saying that it would be a "lifelong journey" but somehow I forgot about that when life was calm again.
Just recently it's occurred to me that it's time to come back to the program and pick up where I left off and I really appreciate the welcome back! This time around I am looking for local meetings instead of trying to do it all online and avoid people- and of course irony abounds; most meetings have moved online because of covid! Still, if I connect with some local groups it'll be easier for me when f2f meetings restart; I'm still pretty shy irl.
Just a little funny- during our lockdowns last year (most of the year) I actually thrived; I'm not a very sociable person and when all of the university courses moved online I took up a writing/editing diploma as well as counselling and my old bachelor and started working on all of them at once. I'm still at it now and almost finished, which is a wonderful feeling. Anyway as part of the writing diploma, my class is producing the university's magazine and I am assistant editor. (Seriously, what fun- I feel so privilleged to be able to study something so fun). ANYWAY I was chatting to one of the other students today about the fact that I live far away and I mostly have to join the team meetings on zoom. And I meant to type "Oh well, I guess I am the foreign correspondent" but instead sent the message "Oh well, I guess I am the foreign codependent". That gave me a pretty good giggle
I haven't heard much from my family about my brother and I'm resisting the urge to ask. I have my own teenage entourage to care about including a daughter who is of age and has decided nightclubs are the next best thing. And here I was thinking she'd been provided enough cautionary examples! Well they've all just finished high school, reached nightclub age and come out of lockdown, and they've certainly gone hard the few times they have gone out. I had this crazy idea that I'd worry about her less as she got older. Ha. Out till 7:30am on the most recent occasion. Now THERE is a good reason to get back on program! She's a good kid and doing well at everything else so I'd be crazy to start trying to micromanage her but my eyes and ears are certainly open.
Anyway, thanks again for the welcomes back. I'm grateful to have this group as a reconnection point with al-anon.
sunmustshine said
Mar 20, 2021
Mel great to see you again. So glad you are doing great at school and still writing. So glad youre daughter is doing well too.
I was did the same thing for a long time, saving Alanon for when my world collapses. Ive figured out (hopefully on a permanent basis) I like smoothing things out checking in more often than the peeks and valleys. What Ive realized is Alanon for me, is more than a bandaid for my bruises.
sunmustshine said
Mar 20, 2021
Mel great to see you again. So glad you are doing great at school and still writing. So glad youre daughter is doing well too.
I was did the same thing for a long time, saving Alanon for when my world collapses. Ive figured out (hopefully on a permanent basis) I like smoothing things out checking in more often than the peeks and valleys. What Ive realized is Alanon for me, is more than a bandaid for my bruises.
Hi peeps.
Mel here. I was a member of this forum a few years ago, and the fellowship of this board helped me to leave an abusive relationship. I've been doing OK since- my kid is doing great and I feel like I am thriving.
I come here today to talk about my brother Jimmy. My mother has just expressed to me that she thinks he might kill her in her sleep. and she confirmed that she was not joking.
A little history- we were abused as kids. Our mother was a child herself when she spawned us and she didn't take very good care of us. However, in her later years, she has really compensated. My siblings and I have forgiven her and have a close relationship with her. I really respect my mother for her ability to adapt and learn. I think she really loves us and she turns herself inside out nowdays to do things for us- she is making up for the past and that can get pretty co-dependent. Nonetheless, we have all moved on.
Except Jimmy. Jimmy is very ill.
He still lives at home and blames our mother for everything. He drinks 24-7 and basically, at the age of 37, acts like an old man in a nursing home. He's never had a relationship or launched his life in any way. he just gets drunk, watches sport, and abuses my parents. And to be fair, they low-key deserve it. They were shi**y parents. he is kind of right when he says they f***ed him up. They really did.
He is obsessed with our mother tho. My brother Peter got sober a few years ago and now he's doing a PHD in medical research. I'm so excited for him but he calls me regularly to discuss what we should do about Jimmy.
I just learned that he is moving back home tomorrow to help my parents deal with Jim. That's not fair. Peter has only been sober for 2 years- he doesn't need this level of responsibility. He's doing so well.
I'm angry that my parents lack of action might f*** up Pete's life. I'm angry that my parents are so weak. I'm angry that they didn't intervene earlier and get help for Jimbo.
I don't think "detach" is ok because my siblings are taking action. I tried talking to my mother tonight and she just wants to complain. She says she is scared Jim will kill her, but she wont do anything. She will let Pete move home to protect her, but she wont do anything.
I could use some feedback. I'm angry.
Edited for language.
-- Edited by Iamhere on Friday 5th of March 2021 01:53:45 PM
I do not see how you can force anyone to do what they do not want to do. I totally
understand your angst and fears. We do learn, under these types of alcoholic
circumstances, in Al-Anon, that minding our own business and leaning on our HP
are the best tools to use. Are you attending face to face meetings locally, because
that would give you the support that you need right now.
As I read your sharing, one thing that comes to my mind is the page in How Al-Anon Works, that speaks to Anyone Confronted with Violence. It says "There are times when, in order to work through especially challenging circumstances, we may need more specialized support from mental, spiritual, physical, or legal advisors." Where I live, there is something called Adult Protective Services that is supposed to look into situations where elders may be in danger of abuse or neglect.
Is there a possibility that your family does not have to handle this alone? I don't know, and I'm in no position to give advice. But I do know your feelings are real. When faced with such frightening situations, the slogan One Day At A Time has helped me get through. It also helps me to imagine my loved ones in the care of their own Higher Power.
All the best to you -- I hope you will keep coming back.
Then it was dressed up to be all okay
One of my core issues has been I never got to have the functional family. Crisis was the norm in my family . Rescue was also the norm in my family. The more heroic the better. For some of us the way we feel better is about helping others. Want to feel better: help.another.
However in al anon we learn to negotiate as to what the boundary is in #helping#
I can really relate to your anger, consternation and fear.
One way that I can neutralize how awful I feel about others drowning in front of me is to put the focus back on ne. That is establishing a more secure base for myself.
This is a great place to come and be heard and be known.
Maresie
Not a good situation! Back to square one for me. I hear you ma'am...
Hey Mel, good to hear from you!
I feel for you, that is a tough, tough situation...I think that watching someone close to you go through avoidable suffering, especially when you know it may actually involve death, is one of the most difficult things to make peace with. I never even came close until I found AlAnon, and even then it was extremely difficult...
I page I have underlined, highlighted, and just shy of tattooed on my skin is page 203 in Courage to Change. It starts off "The people I love won't take care of themselves, so I have to do it. How will they survive unless I...?"
I always had the moxy to dive in, the drive to 'make things happen', and the stubbornness to exert my will on others (always temporary, always unintended and usually undesirable outcomes).
P. 203 talks about the 'natural order to life - a chain of events that a Higher Power has in mind.' I don't believe in an active hand of god directing things, only cause and effect: I don't believe that everything happens FOR a reason, but I believe that there IS a reason that everything happens.
People do what they are moved to do in that moment based on the entire collection of events and experiences in their lives. I may convince them temporarily to make a short term adjustment, but the much larger weight of their life experiences will always, always move them in their own direction. Sometimes that direction is tragic, always that direction is difficult to stand by and watch.
Yet I think about how long it took me to reach a point where I felt the need to change and realize that I wasn't ready to change until I was, well, ready to change. It didn't need to take that long, but that's how long it took ME. When I saw it on my own time, however, it was powerful.
C2C p. 124 was really helpful for me, as was ODAT p. 128 also very powerful reminder:
' ...I will not interfere with the life of anyone else, even though I am motivated only by a desire to help.' "There is a dnger in taking on another's duty - danger that we may neglect our own, and that we may deprive them of what they may learn from finding their own solutions."
I heard somewhere that recovery is not for the faint of heart, and that is so true...Also, that doing the right thing is not always easy, also true. The rewards of both, however, are so worth it.
I just know that if it were not for the wisdom and reminders of AlAnon, I would still be thinking that I knew what should or shouldn't happen in the life of others, interfering with other people's lives, and still without a shred of peace or serenity in my own life. I am very grateful for the lessons I was allowed to learn that brought me here, only because of the incredible blessings for me and those that had to deal with me
Hang in there You, good to see you here, keep coming back
I know I have been pretty erratic popping in with drama and disappearing again over the last couple of years.
I suppose once I got free of my terrible relationship I wanted to stop thinking about it, and that worked for me for a while.
And of course, bit by bit, all the old isms are creeping back in; I'm so reactionary and irritable and obsessive about what others are doing again; I gained so much when I worked this program with you all back then, and isn't it funny that I kept saying that it would be a "lifelong journey" but somehow I forgot about that when life was calm again.
Just recently it's occurred to me that it's time to come back to the program and pick up where I left off and I really appreciate the welcome back! This time around I am looking for local meetings instead of trying to do it all online and avoid people- and of course irony abounds; most meetings have moved online because of covid! Still, if I connect with some local groups it'll be easier for me when f2f meetings restart; I'm still pretty shy irl.
Just a little funny- during our lockdowns last year (most of the year) I actually thrived; I'm not a very sociable person and when all of the university courses moved online I took up a writing/editing diploma as well as counselling and my old bachelor and started working on all of them at once. I'm still at it now and almost finished, which is a wonderful feeling. Anyway as part of the writing diploma, my class is producing the university's magazine and I am assistant editor. (Seriously, what fun- I feel so privilleged to be able to study something so fun). ANYWAY I was chatting to one of the other students today about the fact that I live far away and I mostly have to join the team meetings on zoom. And I meant to type "Oh well, I guess I am the foreign correspondent" but instead sent the message "Oh well, I guess I am the foreign codependent". That gave me a pretty good giggle
I haven't heard much from my family about my brother and I'm resisting the urge to ask. I have my own teenage entourage to care about including a daughter who is of age and has decided nightclubs are the next best thing. And here I was thinking she'd been provided enough cautionary examples! Well they've all just finished high school, reached nightclub age and come out of lockdown, and they've certainly gone hard the few times they have gone out. I had this crazy idea that I'd worry about her less as she got older. Ha. Out till 7:30am on the most recent occasion. Now THERE is a good reason to get back on program! She's a good kid and doing well at everything else so I'd be crazy to start trying to micromanage her but my eyes and ears are certainly open.
Anyway, thanks again for the welcomes back. I'm grateful to have this group as a reconnection point with al-anon.