I'm just curious,do you guys practice detachment on a full time basis with an A or just as needed?
I'm getting much better at detaching when AH is in a funk. He does have good days and can be quite charming,fun,kind,etc. On those days I've been engaging.
The thing is though, I am finding myself feeling resentful on the bad days. I don't expect things to always be good but my gosh, I wish the good ones lasted longer and happened more often.
I am wondering whether detaching all the time would be better. It seems like it would be kind of, I don't know, like punishing him because I don't like the disappointment of the bad days. Or like what's the point of being in a relationship if I detach all the time.
Esh wanted please.
DavidG said
Mar 1, 2021
Sunny- my goal was to move away- from detaching from this or that person; this situation, or that situation; and just have that boundary inside of myself. To live in the present moment. And not to be stuck- between the "what ifs" and the "if only".
So know if I am succeeding I have to mix with other people- and I do this online and face to face.
Debb said
Mar 1, 2021
Sunny, I found that detaching from, on a permanent basis, from all those specific triggers with AH works the best.
Your AH's triggers are probably much different than my AH's, but whatever they are those are the ones to avoid.
I find that keeping to myself, my personal situation is best for me, because AH really does not want to listen to or
deal with my thoughts and feelings. I learned that not engaging AH under certain circumstances or asking him any
questions works best for me as well.
SunnyFrogs said
Mar 1, 2021
Thanks David and Debbie, I appreciate your thoughts.
Sometimes I just get tired of Jeckyl and Hyde and never knowing which yo expect.
Daffodils said
Mar 1, 2021
Thank you SunnyFrogs. You articulated my thoughts/feelings so well . Thank you David and Debb. My HP always sends messages through people. Daffodils (favorites)are the flowers for March-symbolizing rebirth and new beginnings. I am grateful to have MIP in my recovery garden. Have a fantastic day.
Debb said
Mar 1, 2021
Sunny and Daffodils, the Dr. Jeckyl & Hyde syndrome is very classic for alcoholics.
I dealt with that all the time. It is disappointing because it comes at you out of
nowhere. That is why knowing those triggers, avoiding them and detaching is
a great way to regain your sanity/peace/serenity! {SMILES}
SunnyFrogs said
Mar 1, 2021
Thanks Daffodils. I didn't know that daffodils are the flowers for March. Thanks for sharing that.
Debbie,can you explain what you mean a little better? Are you saying that you just make sure you don't say or do anything you know will set off your AH? Are you avoiding his triggers or your own? Or maybe both?
Debb said
Mar 1, 2021
Sunny, the best way for me to detach with love, is to avoid those statements, looks, questions and actions that I know will set AH off.
For example, I know that when I talk about myself or ask a question about himself or I try to talk to him while he is at his computer,
at the kitchen counter making something to eat, or in his bedroom I am going to get Dr. Jekyll. So yes in essence I am maintaining
my peace and serenity by avoiding the places and things that I know will elicit negativity. Let me know if you need more!!
SunnyFrogs said
Mar 1, 2021
Ah,I getcha. Thanks.
Maybe I'm not even talking about detaching,IDK. Maybe it's just not engaging with him at all at times when I know any little thing will set him off.
I don't think that's the same as detaching,is it?
Daffodils said
Mar 1, 2021
This thread was timely and helpful. AH was frustrated because he couldn't get a Revenue Canada agent on the line without a long wait. No surprise to me. Covid...hello. Long story short, after 2 hours of trying to explain reasons, offering alternate ways to get answers he needs...a light bulb went off. Slogans. W.A.I.T. (why am I talking) and H.A.L.T. (we had missed lunch). I prepared some food (which I slightly burned) and we BOTH calmed down. History has taught me, the more logic I throw his way, the more irrational he becomes. So next time, I will zip it and do some self care...a walk perhaps. I used to walk on eggshells when he got this irate. Today I was calm knowing I have MIP and my HP. Thanks again and have a good night.
Iamhere said
Mar 1, 2021
Great discussion, great shares and great question....I believe that there's no right/wrong answer. When I was newer in recovery, I too found comfort in being able to detach at all, esp. when there was chaos/drama. I can totally relate to what you share SF - mine can also be engaging, funny, kind, etc.
I would also get resentments or feel disappointed when things felt so good, and moments later, there was attitude, nastiness, etc. It is hurtful when one you love lashes out. I don't care if the disease is involved or not; it's hurtful. It took me continual practice and a QTIP in my pocket for almost 2 years to learn to Quit Taking It Personally. My sponsor suggested this is how we learn what boundaries we need - when another human acts 'the fool' and we somehow, someway, decide to absorb it, own it, feel it, etc. we are not honoring self and need to explore a tool, a boundary, etc.
I love what Daffodils shares (about the March flower) as well as using the slogans to take action which changed the dynamics. What has happened for me over time is I am faster to realize it's not about me, it's about them and I don't need to point it out, throw blame/shame/other - I just need to take any/all necessary action to get me back to my center.
It is in recovery that I've come to understand expectations and how some of mine weren't super healthy. Every person is different, every relationship is different and more is revealed to me every darn day. My AH and I will celebrate 30 years of marriage in April of this year, and just during this pandemic with planning our groceries/meals, did he share that Coconut Cream Pie is his favorite. Who knew? Every holiday, special time for pie around here, he's asked for Cherry or Apple - Pumpkin once in a while. Who Knew? Certainly not me!!
I tend to avoid labels, names, etc. I know I have many moments where I am less than 'stellar' - grumpy, quiet, sad, disconnected, etc. So many others, my AH included, leave me to it - knowing there will be a bounce. I try to do the same without judging, blaming, shaming, naming it and there's something to be said for time and healing. If you would have asked me 15 years ago if I would be married to this man for 30 years, I would have not just said No, but probably a He!! No!
With 3 A(s) as my only immediate family, I've really had to flip my thinking around. I try every day with my gratitude list and my daily review to focus on what went well or what's working better today vs. what's broken or not working. I do try to stay present and enjoy the best of times and know that this too shall pass - the good and the bad. I was one of those people that could let a spilled beverage in the morning affect my mood all or most of the day BR (Before Recovery). Today, I just clean it up and move on - it's just a spilled beverage, not the end of the world.
Happy March all - can't believe we're already in the 3rd month of 2021....time really seems to fly as I age!!
Bettertomorrow said
Mar 2, 2021
Hi SunnyFrogs,
What a great question!
I personally struggled with detaching when things were not Ok, but engaging when they were not, because initially I felt that my life was revolving around his mood - but I realised this was just another version of me letting alcoholism control my life and I was not acknowledging and respecting my own needs.
My AH is fully active, so the times when he was engaging dwindled to a few minutes a day and I personally decided this was not how I wanted to live my life. I live in the UK and in quite a small house where there is only one main room downstairs, so I (and the children) had to physically detach by spending alot of time in our bedrooms which just wasn't healthy for us.
I have now fully detached physically and he lives somewhere else, still actively drinking, which I respect is his choice. This has also helped me to detach emotionally and lose my resentment, but retain compassion which I struggled with when living with him in the same house.
For me personally there were too many triggers which would set him off - hey sometimes I just had to walk in the room and it would start. I had to ask myself is this how I want to live my life and for me the answer was no, but I appreciate we are all on our own unique journeys.
Best wishes to you for your own journey (())
Debb said
Mar 2, 2021
I think that it is all detachment when we set the boundaries and stay in our own space.
It is about find the answers to live in peace and I believe we all have different circumstances
that drive what we need to do. The main thing is how to avoid the Dr. Jekyll (chaos) and for each of
us it is different. Detaching from the alcoholics disease and their business to do so is what
is the goal, with love and empathy. {{HUGS}}
-- Edited by Debb on Tuesday 2nd of March 2021 08:19:14 AM
SunnyFrogs said
Mar 2, 2021
Thanks for all the thoughts, opinions and different perspectives, I really appreciate it.
I think maybe what I have been doing, engaging on AH's good days and detaching(ignoring,avoiding,etc) on bad days, is what I will continue doing for now. I do enjoy the good days, they're fun and he can be so kind,charming,etc. I could completely close myself and my heart off to try to prevent the disappointment and hurt from when the bad days happen but I don't really wanna do that. As I said before, what's the point in being in a relationship at all if I stay in a detached state at all times.
It hurts regardless if I try to pretend it doesn't or no matter how much I will ever try to convince myself it doesn't. That's where the resntment comes in, because when it's good it's really good, and I want more of that.
I woke up to Jekyl this morning and now suddenly he is Hyde again within a matter of a couple of hours. I think I will just enjoy this day with him, or at least until Jekyl pops out again. Maybe that's progress for me, IDK, but I do know just a few months ago waking up to Jekyl would have thrown my entire day off and I would have held a grudge and had a crappy day and would not have been able to let go of it.
Maresie888 said
Mar 3, 2021
Disappointment is z huge trigger for ms. Catavlysmic
Maresie
SunnyFrogs said
Mar 14, 2021
I decided to come back to this thread. After days of Hyde and laughing,having fun and actually feeling really happy Jeckyl popped back in. I sure didn't handle it well at all and ended up having a meltdown and yelling, crying and throwing things. I'm ashamed of my behavior and I did apologize and now I will pick myself up and move forward.
I have decided though, that I do need to detach full time. This is too painful and I'm doing this to myself. AH isn't doing this to me,I am literally doing it to MYSELF.
Honestly, I was gonna just pack my bags and leave rather than keep repeating the same cycle. But leave to where? I don't even have a job and I have no where to go. So instead I am going to detach full time and stop setting myself up for disappointment.
I'm typing it here to hold myself accountable. Practice practice practice is what I need to do.
-- Edited by SunnyFrogs on Sunday 14th of March 2021 08:38:35 PM
WendyP said
Mar 14, 2021
SunnyFrogs, Detachment is one of the hardest slogans to do and to get, you are doing fine. Try to remember how cunning, baffling, and insidious this Disease is.The Disease is very good at what it does. It needs people to get your attention. . You are Human Being, not a Human Doing all the time. Give yourself a hug, and pat on the back when you can, and when it gets you again, just say to yourself. "Oh, it's only the Disease".
Don't give it anymore power than it already has. Bring it back to One Day At A Time, or Just For Today.
Love WendyP.
Daffodils said
Mar 15, 2021
Good Morning SunnyFrogs. Sorry to hear you're hurting. The dramatic change is unsettling. As Wendy suggested, I take it one day at a time (sometimes an hour or moment). I found my expectations set me up for frustration and disappointment. When AH acted more stable , fun and loving, I would slip expecting him to stay that way permanently (or a decent length of time). The quick changes left me drained. I now try to have zero expectations. I focus on mini self improvements within. It is tough feeling you have no where to go. I will keep you in my prayers. I quit my job pre pandemic for all the wrong reasons which has limited my options. By relying on my HP, focusing more on myself, using AlAnon tools and member experience, I have tapped into " hidden" resources. I don't love my AH any less, I just love myself more. Your presence has opened my mind and heart which has enriched my journey. I pray your day is filled with wonderful surprises. ((HUGS))
SunnyFrogs said
Mar 15, 2021
Thanks wendy and daffodils,I appreciate your input.
It's a new week and a new start and I woke up feeling a bit more hopeful.
It's hard,for everyone I think, trying to do what we need during this pandemic especially. It's also disheartening because when we most need the person we are closest to during this, someone who makes us feel safe and secure in an unsafe world they are just not reliable.
I am scheduled for my first dose of the vaccine this week. Although I am scared because of all the bad things I have heard and read,I am grateful to be getting it. I am hoping that by the end of next month I can feel a little safer going out. I know I will still need to take precautions but I can hopefully start doing more than just grocery shopping. I miss being around people.
It's tough always being around the same person whether they're an A or not.
Debb said
Mar 15, 2021
SunnyFrogs, I would like to add to WendyP and Daffodils ESH and say that I struggled for
years with the Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde syndrome and have better success detaching when I
learned what vocal tones/facial expressions/verbal statements are the triggers. AH
cannot be asked certain questions in certain places and circumstances. He cannot be
approached when he is at his computer or when he is making something to eat in the
kitchen, he cannot be spoken to when he first gets home from work. I avoid any
questions about this family, etc. (I think you get it). When I detach and avoid his
triggers, keep to myself and handle situations I know are his triggers, I now, very
rarely have to experience those Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde episodes.
SunnyFrogs said
Mar 15, 2021
Thanks Deb.
I'm just gonna be honest with you,posts like what you wrote used to irk me. It would make me think what's the point of even being in a marriage if I do that.
Guess what though? I truly appreciate your consistency in saying what you doo. I may not have been able to fully absorb it or appreciate it before but I sure do now.
All it took was asking AH a question. It was a necessary one about one of our kids. And boom,there was an instant switch in him and he's been absolutely intolerable since then. Had I absorbed your words sooner I would have chosen a different time to ask.
Thanks for your ESH
-- Edited by SunnyFrogs on Monday 15th of March 2021 09:10:03 AM
Debb said
Mar 15, 2021
SunnyFrogs, happy to share what I found works. {{HUGS}}
Iamhere said
Mar 15, 2021
(((SF))) - so, so sorry that the disease 'won the day'. I do love that upon awakening, you realize it's a new day and you've got 'new hope' or a changed outlook. I vividly recall when 'things' shifted here - sometimes with no notice, discussion, questions, etc. It just happens.
I would sit and wonder what I did or what I could do differently to 'avoid' 'this'. What time has taught me is trying to predict what may/may not trigger another is more wasted time. I am best, and we do best when I just focus on me, don't ask questions but instead offer solutions and just move forward.
For me, this was detaching. I had in my mind that as a 'married person' I needed to consult and confer on most/all things for harmony and equality. PFFFFT - no, I don't. I am an intelligent person, capable of making decisions that will benefit me/us and I no longer ask permission, instead, just share outcomes.
It would be nice if we split everything 50/50 - chores, bills, maintenance, etc. - we do not. I do 90% of it all and do so gladly. I am able, it keeps me busy, it helps me learn new things and prepares me to be more independent than I already am. I am not suggesting this is the path for you or anyone - just sharing that when I stopped seeking approval/permission/equality, I felt more free and it worked well here.
My best tools when chaos returns is the serenity prayer, full form or abbreviated (Bless Him, Change Me). I literally repeat this to myself until I can accept that whatever is going on has nothing to do with me, and isn't worth my serenity. When I struggle, as it's personal, I will remove myself from the room, the home, etc. as/if needed. Hopefully, before I engage, not always.
I can remember feeling I had no place to go. I did start a 'cash stash' when I started recovery. I also had (still have) a bag packed in case I needed to go. My AH is not abusive, just mean when he doesn't get his way so that bag is not to escape him but rather to save, protect or preserve my serenity. I asked a few close friends if I could spend the night if I ever needed to. I got yes answers and didn't have to explain in detail why.
So - detaching takes many forms - and, there's no shame in reacting to the chaos once in a while. It's when we slip that we realize we don't want to 'be like that' and we continue to chase change/growth. It's all about practice, practice, practice and progress...hang in there SF - you got this!!
JerryF said
Mar 15, 2021
Our program is a full time spiritual and behavioral condition for me after I learned it would have to be partly in order that I reduce the number of mistakes I made and would make in daily life. I lessen the number of mistakes I made with increased practice day by day. One of the most important characteristics of recovery for me is "progress not perfecton" yet perfection is considered the most desired condition which is part and parcel of my qualification for membership. I experience perfection only by miracles which come by the hand of my Higher Power.
I have, like others experienced miracles during my time in program both with service being done for me and service being done for others. Miracles were a far fetched idea when I first agreed to surrender to my HP and it's Al-Anon program and then I realized I could and would not ever experience miracles without the surrender the program and this family shares with me...I believe and often re-believe when HP tells me "Let's re-examine Your/The journey".
I have come to realize and accept what I have been taught and shown here as a Miracle In "Continuous" Progress.
I will keep coming back. Miracles are AWESOME!!!! (((((Hugs)))))
SunnyFrogs said
Mar 16, 2021
Thanks iamhere. Reading your share was helpful and a perspective I hadn't really thought about.
I do spend much time trying to figure out and avoid what's going to trigger AH. And tbh it feels mentally exhausting after awhile because it makes me feel like I'm walking on eggshells.. Until I can figure out or practice a different way it's what I need to do for right now.
This last time he turned into Jeckyl was very triggering for me and my PTSD symptoms are still in high gear. I just can't even really look at him or talk to him right now without my heart pounding,surges of adrenaline through my body and thoughts that I have to escape.
My point in sharing that is your share made me realize that my PTSD and my triggers and how I react are my responsibility. It's not anyone else's job to learn what triggers me and try to avoid them . So hmmm...that's food for thought once my symptoms lessen and I can think more clearly.
I don't ask AH for permission before making decisions but I do run things by him almost all the time. I do ask his thoughts and what he would do,what he think would be best,etc. Not that I go by his opinion but rather because it seems like the 'marriedly' (I dont think that's a real word) thing to do. That's more food for thought,doing that. I didn't have to ask the question about our child that set him off. I felt like I should but in actuality,no I didn't need to. I would have been better off not asking anyway.
I do have a bag thatI keep packed,just in case.And stashed cash. In reality I do have places I could go temporarily if needed. I guess it's emotionally I feel I have no where to go when I've been triggered.
I appreciate your share. It reminds me I need to work towards being more independent. And actually,I have started therapy again to help me with all of this. Something nice about coming here is members have real world experience whereas my therapist doesn't.
Thanks for your share too Jerry. You made me think of my sister with your positivity .She is not an Alanon member but she relies on her HP to get her through all the storms in her life. She has completely turned her life around and is so successful. To me it seemed like she worked so hard to get where she is. To hear her talk about it, she makes it sound so effortless and like it was her HP that did all the work and all she did was trust the process.
I wish I could be more trusting of not just my HP but also this program. It still feels like much,much hard work to me.
Freetime said
Mar 16, 2021
Sunny, I just want to share that I can relate to a lot of what you wrote. I remember that feeling of not wanting to look at or talk to my late AH, of being triggered just by his being in the same room. I had definite opinions of what married life should look like, and felt guilty when I did not -- could not -- measure up to my self-imposed standard. You are not alone in this.
I am so happy to hear that you have a bag packed, some cash, and places to go. I found it so helpful to have those things, too, regardless of if I ever used them. And so glad you have a therapist, too. I also had a great therapist, who had book-learning but not actual experience with addiction, so the combination with Al-Anon was really effective.
And about your sister, who seems to effortlessly get through the storms of life -- it reminds me of something I once heard. When we see a swan gliding across the lake, it looks like she is just smoothly floating along, but in reality, she is paddling like hell underneath. I certainly had to do the legwork to get to where I am today. It did not happen quickly, but it did happen. Just keep paddling!
Iamhere said
Mar 16, 2021
(((SF))) - I hear you and can so relate. I try to not discuss mental health here as it's considered an outside issue. It's fine to do so - it's just a personal boundary for me that I try to keep focus on recovery strategies vs. other strategies. I will tell you that seeking outside help of every/any kind is a great choice when needed.
When I got to Al-Anon, I had anxiety so bad which triggered panic attacks that kept me from driving. I could not predict what would trigger them, and my body would shut down - faint, black-out, pass-out, etc. Some days were constant and other days, all was well. The perpetual stress I imposed on myself living with 3 actives A(s) was truly too much for me. I did counseling and sought outside help which was healing for me.
What my experience has been (over time and embracing this program) is when I am not putting myself first, I'm not being authentic and it just leaves me less joyful. I had to learn from a professional how to tell my family that I wasn't feeling well and would prefer to talk later. All of my A(s) are male and my males are truly very, very different from me - thinking, processing, priorities, etc. Some of this may be disease related and some of it may be gender related. I really don't know and have just come to accept that focusing on my needs and being true to me keeps me grounded more than trying to figure out what's a good time to ............................... or when should I ask ..................................
I have to share that as I've become more independent, authentic and self-assured, my guys all like me better, treat me better and tend to come find me for things. We've had some major flip-flopping as I've embraced recovery. I can tell you that countless times in the last 10+ years, I've opted to just let go, let God and keep my mouth shut in the face of sarcasm, cruelty, etc. and when I just allow things to unfold, all truly is well. 2 of my 3 guys not only want to be around and have real dialogue, they apologize when wrong without being told they are wrong.
I still have a physical response to the chaos/insanity this disease brings. I can feel it starting from within and my best tool at that moment is to just pause long enough to pray before I proceed. More often than not, if it involves active disease, my proceed 'action' is no response at all. I have actually sat in my front room, in front of the TV, pushed pause, allowed my A to scream, rage, etc. and not responded. Mine tend to bore easily when I don't react, so off they go and I un-pause. I am not unaffected; these events are absolutely devastating, frightening, maddening, sad and disappointing! Yet, I know deep down that I am completely powerless and anything I do, say, suggest, scream, cry - in that moment - will not help or calm anything.
So - do whatever works for you to keep you grounded and calm. My daily goal is just to find and keep my joy and my serenity. It's a goal, so if I get sad or mad or ________________ - it's OK - I'm human. I try to start my day over and will do this again and again if need be. We matter and I have found that calm self advocacy in any form is far better for me than trying to read the mind of another or project timing for anything! Keep doing what you're doing and you'll continue to find improvement. It's all about progress, not perfection and a bad day is not a failure or even a set-back - it's just a bad day!!
(((Hugs))) - great thread, lovely shares & exactly how it all works - sharing ESH with each other...
-- Edited by Iamhere on Tuesday 16th of March 2021 06:04:59 PM
DavidG said
Mar 16, 2021
Still following this thread. Imo the sharing hear as just as good as the ones inner readers... really...
Honestly what I missed most in the alcoholic situation was the adult to adult conversation. I picked
up a bit of it- but only just... just enough to get by. But I see it here- with breadth and depth.
I'm just curious,do you guys practice detachment on a full time basis with an A or just as needed?
I'm getting much better at detaching when AH is in a funk. He does have good days and can be quite charming,fun,kind,etc. On those days I've been engaging.
The thing is though, I am finding myself feeling resentful on the bad days. I don't expect things to always be good but my gosh, I wish the good ones lasted longer and happened more often.
I am wondering whether detaching all the time would be better. It seems like it would be kind of, I don't know, like punishing him because I don't like the disappointment of the bad days. Or like what's the point of being in a relationship if I detach all the time.
Esh wanted please.
So know if I am succeeding I have to mix with other people- and I do this online and face to face.
Your AH's triggers are probably much different than my AH's, but whatever they are those are the ones to avoid.
I find that keeping to myself, my personal situation is best for me, because AH really does not want to listen to or
deal with my thoughts and feelings. I learned that not engaging AH under certain circumstances or asking him any
questions works best for me as well.
Sometimes I just get tired of Jeckyl and Hyde and never knowing which yo expect.
I dealt with that all the time. It is disappointing because it comes at you out of
nowhere. That is why knowing those triggers, avoiding them and detaching is
a great way to regain your sanity/peace/serenity! {SMILES}
Debbie,can you explain what you mean a little better? Are you saying that you just make sure you don't say or do anything you know will set off your AH? Are you avoiding his triggers or your own? Or maybe both?
For example, I know that when I talk about myself or ask a question about himself or I try to talk to him while he is at his computer,
at the kitchen counter making something to eat, or in his bedroom I am going to get Dr. Jekyll. So yes in essence I am maintaining
my peace and serenity by avoiding the places and things that I know will elicit negativity. Let me know if you need more!!
Maybe I'm not even talking about detaching,IDK. Maybe it's just not engaging with him at all at times when I know any little thing will set him off.
I don't think that's the same as detaching,is it?
I would also get resentments or feel disappointed when things felt so good, and moments later, there was attitude, nastiness, etc. It is hurtful when one you love lashes out. I don't care if the disease is involved or not; it's hurtful. It took me continual practice and a QTIP in my pocket for almost 2 years to learn to Quit Taking It Personally. My sponsor suggested this is how we learn what boundaries we need - when another human acts 'the fool' and we somehow, someway, decide to absorb it, own it, feel it, etc. we are not honoring self and need to explore a tool, a boundary, etc.
I love what Daffodils shares (about the March flower) as well as using the slogans to take action which changed the dynamics. What has happened for me over time is I am faster to realize it's not about me, it's about them and I don't need to point it out, throw blame/shame/other - I just need to take any/all necessary action to get me back to my center.
It is in recovery that I've come to understand expectations and how some of mine weren't super healthy. Every person is different, every relationship is different and more is revealed to me every darn day. My AH and I will celebrate 30 years of marriage in April of this year, and just during this pandemic with planning our groceries/meals, did he share that Coconut Cream Pie is his favorite. Who knew? Every holiday, special time for pie around here, he's asked for Cherry or Apple - Pumpkin once in a while. Who Knew? Certainly not me!!
I tend to avoid labels, names, etc. I know I have many moments where I am less than 'stellar' - grumpy, quiet, sad, disconnected, etc. So many others, my AH included, leave me to it - knowing there will be a bounce. I try to do the same without judging, blaming, shaming, naming it and there's something to be said for time and healing. If you would have asked me 15 years ago if I would be married to this man for 30 years, I would have not just said No, but probably a He!! No!
With 3 A(s) as my only immediate family, I've really had to flip my thinking around. I try every day with my gratitude list and my daily review to focus on what went well or what's working better today vs. what's broken or not working. I do try to stay present and enjoy the best of times and know that this too shall pass - the good and the bad. I was one of those people that could let a spilled beverage in the morning affect my mood all or most of the day BR (Before Recovery). Today, I just clean it up and move on - it's just a spilled beverage, not the end of the world.
Happy March all - can't believe we're already in the 3rd month of 2021....time really seems to fly as I age!!
Hi SunnyFrogs,
What a great question!
I personally struggled with detaching when things were not Ok, but engaging when they were not, because initially I felt that my life was revolving around his mood - but I realised this was just another version of me letting alcoholism control my life and I was not acknowledging and respecting my own needs.
My AH is fully active, so the times when he was engaging dwindled to a few minutes a day and I personally decided this was not how I wanted to live my life. I live in the UK and in quite a small house where there is only one main room downstairs, so I (and the children) had to physically detach by spending alot of time in our bedrooms which just wasn't healthy for us.
I have now fully detached physically and he lives somewhere else, still actively drinking, which I respect is his choice. This has also helped me to detach emotionally and lose my resentment, but retain compassion which I struggled with when living with him in the same house.
For me personally there were too many triggers which would set him off - hey sometimes I just had to walk in the room and it would start. I had to ask myself is this how I want to live my life and for me the answer was no, but I appreciate we are all on our own unique journeys.
Best wishes to you for your own journey (())
I think that it is all detachment when we set the boundaries and stay in our own space.
It is about find the answers to live in peace and I believe we all have different circumstances
that drive what we need to do. The main thing is how to avoid the Dr. Jekyll (chaos) and for each of
us it is different. Detaching from the alcoholics disease and their business to do so is what
is the goal, with love and empathy. {{HUGS}}
-- Edited by Debb on Tuesday 2nd of March 2021 08:19:14 AM
I think maybe what I have been doing, engaging on AH's good days and detaching(ignoring,avoiding,etc) on bad days, is what I will continue doing for now. I do enjoy the good days, they're fun and he can be so kind,charming,etc. I could completely close myself and my heart off to try to prevent the disappointment and hurt from when the bad days happen but I don't really wanna do that. As I said before, what's the point in being in a relationship at all if I stay in a detached state at all times.
It hurts regardless if I try to pretend it doesn't or no matter how much I will ever try to convince myself it doesn't. That's where the resntment comes in, because when it's good it's really good, and I want more of that.
I woke up to Jekyl this morning and now suddenly he is Hyde again within a matter of a couple of hours. I think I will just enjoy this day with him, or at least until Jekyl pops out again. Maybe that's progress for me, IDK, but I do know just a few months ago waking up to Jekyl would have thrown my entire day off and I would have held a grudge and had a crappy day and would not have been able to let go of it.
Disappointment is z huge trigger for ms. Catavlysmic
Maresie
I decided to come back to this thread. After days of Hyde and laughing,having fun and actually feeling really happy Jeckyl popped back in. I sure didn't handle it well at all and ended up having a meltdown and yelling, crying and throwing things. I'm ashamed of my behavior and I did apologize and now I will pick myself up and move forward.
I have decided though, that I do need to detach full time. This is too painful and I'm doing this to myself. AH isn't doing this to me,I am literally doing it to MYSELF.
Honestly, I was gonna just pack my bags and leave rather than keep repeating the same cycle. But leave to where? I don't even have a job and I have no where to go. So instead I am going to detach full time and stop setting myself up for disappointment.
I'm typing it here to hold myself accountable. Practice practice practice is what I need to do.
-- Edited by SunnyFrogs on Sunday 14th of March 2021 08:38:35 PM
SunnyFrogs, Detachment is one of the hardest slogans to do and to get, you are doing fine. Try to remember how cunning, baffling, and insidious this Disease is.The Disease is very good at what it does. It needs people to get your attention. . You are Human Being, not a Human Doing all the time. Give yourself a hug, and pat on the back when you can, and when it gets you again, just say to yourself. "Oh, it's only the Disease".
Don't give it anymore power than it already has. Bring it back to One Day At A Time, or Just For Today.
Love WendyP.
It's a new week and a new start and I woke up feeling a bit more hopeful.
It's hard,for everyone I think, trying to do what we need during this pandemic especially. It's also disheartening because when we most need the person we are closest to during this, someone who makes us feel safe and secure in an unsafe world they are just not reliable.
I am scheduled for my first dose of the vaccine this week. Although I am scared because of all the bad things I have heard and read,I am grateful to be getting it. I am hoping that by the end of next month I can feel a little safer going out. I know I will still need to take precautions but I can hopefully start doing more than just grocery shopping. I miss being around people.
It's tough always being around the same person whether they're an A or not.
years with the Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde syndrome and have better success detaching when I
learned what vocal tones/facial expressions/verbal statements are the triggers. AH
cannot be asked certain questions in certain places and circumstances. He cannot be
approached when he is at his computer or when he is making something to eat in the
kitchen, he cannot be spoken to when he first gets home from work. I avoid any
questions about this family, etc. (I think you get it). When I detach and avoid his
triggers, keep to myself and handle situations I know are his triggers, I now, very
rarely have to experience those Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde episodes.
Thanks Deb.
I'm just gonna be honest with you,posts like what you wrote used to irk me. It would make me think what's the point of even being in a marriage if I do that.
Guess what though? I truly appreciate your consistency in saying what you doo. I may not have been able to fully absorb it or appreciate it before but I sure do now.
All it took was asking AH a question. It was a necessary one about one of our kids. And boom,there was an instant switch in him and he's been absolutely intolerable since then. Had I absorbed your words sooner I would have chosen a different time to ask.
Thanks for your ESH
-- Edited by SunnyFrogs on Monday 15th of March 2021 09:10:03 AM
I would sit and wonder what I did or what I could do differently to 'avoid' 'this'. What time has taught me is trying to predict what may/may not trigger another is more wasted time. I am best, and we do best when I just focus on me, don't ask questions but instead offer solutions and just move forward.
For me, this was detaching. I had in my mind that as a 'married person' I needed to consult and confer on most/all things for harmony and equality. PFFFFT - no, I don't. I am an intelligent person, capable of making decisions that will benefit me/us and I no longer ask permission, instead, just share outcomes.
It would be nice if we split everything 50/50 - chores, bills, maintenance, etc. - we do not. I do 90% of it all and do so gladly. I am able, it keeps me busy, it helps me learn new things and prepares me to be more independent than I already am. I am not suggesting this is the path for you or anyone - just sharing that when I stopped seeking approval/permission/equality, I felt more free and it worked well here.
My best tools when chaos returns is the serenity prayer, full form or abbreviated (Bless Him, Change Me). I literally repeat this to myself until I can accept that whatever is going on has nothing to do with me, and isn't worth my serenity. When I struggle, as it's personal, I will remove myself from the room, the home, etc. as/if needed. Hopefully, before I engage, not always.
I can remember feeling I had no place to go. I did start a 'cash stash' when I started recovery. I also had (still have) a bag packed in case I needed to go. My AH is not abusive, just mean when he doesn't get his way so that bag is not to escape him but rather to save, protect or preserve my serenity. I asked a few close friends if I could spend the night if I ever needed to. I got yes answers and didn't have to explain in detail why.
So - detaching takes many forms - and, there's no shame in reacting to the chaos once in a while. It's when we slip that we realize we don't want to 'be like that' and we continue to chase change/growth. It's all about practice, practice, practice and progress...hang in there SF - you got this!!
Our program is a full time spiritual and behavioral condition for me after I learned it would have to be partly in order that I reduce the number of mistakes I made and would make in daily life. I lessen the number of mistakes I made with increased practice day by day. One of the most important characteristics of recovery for me is "progress not perfecton" yet perfection is considered the most desired condition which is part and parcel of my qualification for membership. I experience perfection only by miracles which come by the hand of my Higher Power.
I have, like others experienced miracles during my time in program both with service being done for me and service being done for others. Miracles were a far fetched idea when I first agreed to surrender to my HP and it's Al-Anon program and then I realized I could and would not ever experience miracles without the surrender the program and this family shares with me...I believe and often re-believe when HP tells me "Let's re-examine Your/The journey".
I have come to realize and accept what I have been taught and shown here as a Miracle In "Continuous" Progress.
I will keep coming back. Miracles are AWESOME!!!! (((((Hugs)))))
I do spend much time trying to figure out and avoid what's going to trigger AH. And tbh it feels mentally exhausting after awhile because it makes me feel like I'm walking on eggshells.. Until I can figure out or practice a different way it's what I need to do for right now.
This last time he turned into Jeckyl was very triggering for me and my PTSD symptoms are still in high gear. I just can't even really look at him or talk to him right now without my heart pounding,surges of adrenaline through my body and thoughts that I have to escape.
My point in sharing that is your share made me realize that my PTSD and my triggers and how I react are my responsibility. It's not anyone else's job to learn what triggers me and try to avoid them . So hmmm...that's food for thought once my symptoms lessen and I can think more clearly.
I don't ask AH for permission before making decisions but I do run things by him almost all the time. I do ask his thoughts and what he would do,what he think would be best,etc. Not that I go by his opinion but rather because it seems like the 'marriedly' (I dont think that's a real word) thing to do. That's more food for thought,doing that. I didn't have to ask the question about our child that set him off. I felt like I should but in actuality,no I didn't need to. I would have been better off not asking anyway.
I do have a bag thatI keep packed,just in case.And stashed cash. In reality I do have places I could go temporarily if needed. I guess it's emotionally I feel I have no where to go when I've been triggered.
I appreciate your share. It reminds me I need to work towards being more independent. And actually,I have started therapy again to help me with all of this. Something nice about coming here is members have real world experience whereas my therapist doesn't.
Thanks for your share too Jerry. You made me think of my sister with your positivity .She is not an Alanon member but she relies on her HP to get her through all the storms in her life. She has completely turned her life around and is so successful. To me it seemed like she worked so hard to get where she is. To hear her talk about it, she makes it sound so effortless and like it was her HP that did all the work and all she did was trust the process.
I wish I could be more trusting of not just my HP but also this program. It still feels like much,much hard work to me.
I am so happy to hear that you have a bag packed, some cash, and places to go. I found it so helpful to have those things, too, regardless of if I ever used them. And so glad you have a therapist, too. I also had a great therapist, who had book-learning but not actual experience with addiction, so the combination with Al-Anon was really effective.
And about your sister, who seems to effortlessly get through the storms of life -- it reminds me of something I once heard. When we see a swan gliding across the lake, it looks like she is just smoothly floating along, but in reality, she is paddling like hell underneath. I certainly had to do the legwork to get to where I am today. It did not happen quickly, but it did happen. Just keep paddling!
(((SF))) - I hear you and can so relate. I try to not discuss mental health here as it's considered an outside issue. It's fine to do so - it's just a personal boundary for me that I try to keep focus on recovery strategies vs. other strategies. I will tell you that seeking outside help of every/any kind is a great choice when needed.
When I got to Al-Anon, I had anxiety so bad which triggered panic attacks that kept me from driving. I could not predict what would trigger them, and my body would shut down - faint, black-out, pass-out, etc. Some days were constant and other days, all was well. The perpetual stress I imposed on myself living with 3 actives A(s) was truly too much for me. I did counseling and sought outside help which was healing for me.
What my experience has been (over time and embracing this program) is when I am not putting myself first, I'm not being authentic and it just leaves me less joyful. I had to learn from a professional how to tell my family that I wasn't feeling well and would prefer to talk later. All of my A(s) are male and my males are truly very, very different from me - thinking, processing, priorities, etc. Some of this may be disease related and some of it may be gender related. I really don't know and have just come to accept that focusing on my needs and being true to me keeps me grounded more than trying to figure out what's a good time to ............................... or when should I ask ..................................
I have to share that as I've become more independent, authentic and self-assured, my guys all like me better, treat me better and tend to come find me for things. We've had some major flip-flopping as I've embraced recovery. I can tell you that countless times in the last 10+ years, I've opted to just let go, let God and keep my mouth shut in the face of sarcasm, cruelty, etc. and when I just allow things to unfold, all truly is well. 2 of my 3 guys not only want to be around and have real dialogue, they apologize when wrong without being told they are wrong.
I still have a physical response to the chaos/insanity this disease brings. I can feel it starting from within and my best tool at that moment is to just pause long enough to pray before I proceed. More often than not, if it involves active disease, my proceed 'action' is no response at all. I have actually sat in my front room, in front of the TV, pushed pause, allowed my A to scream, rage, etc. and not responded. Mine tend to bore easily when I don't react, so off they go and I un-pause. I am not unaffected; these events are absolutely devastating, frightening, maddening, sad and disappointing! Yet, I know deep down that I am completely powerless and anything I do, say, suggest, scream, cry - in that moment - will not help or calm anything.
So - do whatever works for you to keep you grounded and calm. My daily goal is just to find and keep my joy and my serenity. It's a goal, so if I get sad or mad or ________________ - it's OK - I'm human. I try to start my day over and will do this again and again if need be. We matter and I have found that calm self advocacy in any form is far better for me than trying to read the mind of another or project timing for anything! Keep doing what you're doing and you'll continue to find improvement. It's all about progress, not perfection and a bad day is not a failure or even a set-back - it's just a bad day!!
(((Hugs))) - great thread, lovely shares & exactly how it all works - sharing ESH with each other...
-- Edited by Iamhere on Tuesday 16th of March 2021 06:04:59 PM
Honestly what I missed most in the alcoholic situation was the adult to adult conversation. I picked
up a bit of it- but only just... just enough to get by. But I see it here- with breadth and depth.