Ive been trying very hard not to engage when AH is drinking. This holiday season went as usual: He has multiple days off and all of them are spent getting drunk. Im trying to accept that he does this, to take care of myself and leave him be to do what he wants. Detach and do my own thing. Sure enough tonight he lashed out for no reason, accused me of being controlling in every way (am I? Im trying SO HARD to leave him be), but could not give me a single concrete example of how I control him. Something nonsensical about food and I dont know what Else. And hes not sure if we should stay together. It made no sense and made me wonder if his brain is now being affected. He blacks out every day that he drinks, I cant have any conversation with him that I want him to remember, he doesnt remember TV shows we watch together, he doesnt remember anything important that happens when hes drunk.
So when this started I tried very hard to not respond but it was so confusing and hurtful as to what brought it on out of nowhere, he even walkEd away muttering go fk yourself under his breath, and came back and just stared at me until I had to say something to defend my self. And down hill from there. I lost my resolve not to engage.
it is so very hard. I failed and I just needed to vent this somewhere, I know you all understand, no one else in my life, not one single soul, knows what I go through. Hes a great when not drunk. I grieve for what appears to be slipping away. maybe I should just encourage him to leave me when he says hes thinking about it. Get it over with.
I need a hug and theres no one to hug. Feeling very alone and sorry for myself.
Maresie888 said
Jan 1, 2021
Dear Seahorse 7
Al.anon.does not have a pass/,fail meter. i am so very glad I discovered that.
The ability to.detach is indeed a very big skill. Detaching takes oractice lots of practice.
Even after years of oractice the abilty to detach is not something we can just call up. When I am able to detach as I have been lately jt is a cimbination of a lot of elements. Being exhausred us not one of them. Two weeks ago I had signs i was getting irritable and close to overload. I cut back and immediateky revised my agenda
When I lived with the qualifier I spent months if not years on sheer 24/7 overlosd. When I cane to al.anon it took.a lot for me to trust that I could lighten the load.
When we come into al.anon.many of us are in deep.distress. The tools and suggestions in Al anon are of course heloful but we are trying to use them when we are under seige. That is indeed a doubke bind. I find everydsy life challenging. Life with an active alcoholic is extremeky challenging
I have soent the greater part of the last year feelimg extremely trigggered. Moving through that has been very difficult. However recently I have come to a place of greater oeace and hope. Hope is indeed a welcome relief.
I am grateful that I am moving into.a place where I am npt triggered as much
Some of us who end up in partnershio woth an alcoholic have s highly developed inner critic. We are unbelievably hard on ourselves. I have worked really hard to lessen my inner critic's influence
One of the al anon slogans is Live and let live thst applies to is as well. I can get off ounishment these days.
Whenever I was in a relationship the holidays brought up a lot. There are a lot of issues associated with the holidays. I felt every year that I had failed. My expectations were way way off
Now I do not have that many expectations. I am certainly still triggered but I no longer have wn exoectstion that I will not be.
Unfortinately I never found a relationship.apart from friends I met in recovery who was supportive over the holidsys.
I am glad you reached out to us and welcome you to this group.
It is very hard
Lyne said
Jan 1, 2021
{{{Seahorse}}}. Those brackets are a virtual hug. I get what you are going through, how hard it is not to engage, knowing I dont deserve the behavior being given to me, and being absolutely unable to fix the situation.
Im in my 8th year in alanon. Im getting better at detaching, not engaging, letting go and letting God, and having to remind myself the only person I can change is myself. I will say that after all this time practicing alanon tools I do feel happy and at peace much of the time. Ive been with my A for 29 years.
Some of us stay with the A and some of us dont. That is a decision only you can make for yourself. But I would stick with alanon for awhile before you make any life changing decisions. I found that I was too upset, too beaten down, and too darn depressed to make good decisions.
Keep coming back. I believe there are meetings on the board here, and there are daily zoom meeting for alanon all over the country and world. Dont beat yourself up! You are trying to survive the best you can in a very trying circumstance.
Debb said
Jan 1, 2021
Seahorse7, glad you reached out and really sorry that you had to experience the chaos.
I posted a reply to you on "Courage to Change - December 30th" post you made, but will
kind of repeat what I said on that post to you:
When AH lashes out at me, it is not me that wants to hurt so much is that he is trying to create the chaos that he thinks entitles
himself to continue drinking. Also, that ranting and chaos is a product of the mental damage to his brain due to the alcohol.
Understanding just those two points helps to put the ranting in perspective, so that you can detach and walk away. Working
Steps 1 and 2 help a lot. I have been married to AH for 15 years/together for 18 years all total and am still working on
detaching. Detachment is a work in progress and not easy. You are doing great, you did not fail!!
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol that our lives had become unmanageable. 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
Hope I have helped!
-- Edited by Debb on Friday 1st of January 2021 10:17:17 AM
Enigmatic said
Jan 2, 2021
{Seahorse}
What I heard was not failure, rather a strong effort to recall and put into practice the lessons you have learned in AlAnon. As has been mentioned, I am so grateful our program encourages progress rather than perfection or I would have dropped out long ago...
Changing thought and behavior habits developed over years is often a long process, it certainly is for me. I am so grateful for the patience of the program, my higher power, and to a much better degree today: me. I have reduced the self-pummeling that I typically engaged in after I slipped in my endeavors...
Hang in there, you're doing well, so glad you shared with the group
Maresie888 said
Jan 2, 2021
There is another side to failure. When I fully dived into how I was manioulated I found that I could identify the hooks that got me triggered
Detachment is indeed an active skill. The way we can become like teflon is to work on ourselves
Success is indeed a road full of failures. You have to try to be able to suceed. Therefore there is no.failed miserably. There is working on suceeding
How lucky i am to be in a place where I can stio beating myself up about oerceived failures
I have indeed been around people who thrive on beating up.on others. I turned down an opportunity to be around some of them this week. Turning down that opportunity is a success. Knowing what will trigger me is so empowering
I know what it is to be mercilessly unsymlathetic to mysrlf. Being able to disarm ny inner critic has been so key for me
Maresie
PosiesandPuppies said
Jan 2, 2021
((((Seahorse))))
Sending you a virtual hug! I have been there. My spouse would never remember what he said, or how he acted. When I would try and explain why I was hurt/angry, he would tell me that I was the crazy one, that I was making it up, and that I wasn't being "supportive." I soon stopped trying to tell him anything, ever. But the hurt never goes away. It just stews inside you. I must say, that this was much more an issue with his alcohol abuse than his meth abuse. Honestly, the meth abuse was more of a shocker, but in many ways "easier" to deal with as a spouse. I know, odd to say this.
I had to return to Al-Anon for MY sanity. I re-learned about projection, gas-lighting, and something new; wet brain syndrome. Many other things as well, but these 3 things were about the addicted one, and really helped me understand that I wasn't the crazy one!! I delved into research of these things. Doing the research helped me to stop trying to reason with something that cannot be reasoned with (Addiction). When I finally left the marriage, it was because I knew he had damaged his brain, could not truly be a loving partner as he was (and as he wanted to stay), and that I deserved better. TBH, it was learning about Adult Children of Alcoholics and the possible damage this was doing to my kid that gave me the courage to leave. After that, I worked on understanding what I truly wanted, and if it was attainable with that person (I had already given him a "second-chance" (meth addiction) and that didn't work out so well). I learned many things about myself as well... some not so flattering. For instance, I accepted that I could not accept him as he was at that moment. And that I couldn't live the rest of my life in fear of relapse. That was a very hard one to understand and accept about myself, b/c I was always told that relapse is a part of recovery, and I always did strive to be the "perfect" wife. Accepting my feelings about this was certainly not "perfect," but it was authentically me.
I tell you part of my story in the hopes that you will understand that you did not fail. That you are not alone. That I understand. I believe everyone here can understand and empathize with what you are currently going through. But we are all here to tell you there is light at the end of your journey... no matter what the "end" looks like, it can get better for you. Your HP has you cradled... you just need to do the "work." It is about Awareness, Acceptance, Action. I found that Acceptance was the hardest of the three.
Welcome.
&
sunmustshine said
Jan 3, 2021
(((Seahorse)))
I am sorry you are facing the challenges of living with an actively drinking AH. Your experience was exactly like my life of years ago. Be gentle with yourself. I know how awful it feels, not only for someone to blame and insult you using twisted drunk logic but to keep coming at you. Its hard enough when it happens once but when the offender wont leave you alone and badgers you to respond it gets harder and harder to stay quiet. I cant count the times I failed to hold onto my serenity. I eventually told my AH he could not be present if he drinks. His big question was always, where do you expect me to go? I would laugh to myself because he seemed to figure something out on the nights he just didnt come home by his own choosing. I would tell him drinking is his choice, its his issue to figure out. He also liked to try to push the issue with the question of what are you saying? He would try to get me from a solid stance into a decision making realm I was not prepared to enter but I would repeat my boundary and nothing more. He would hurl the insults and pretend he won because I didnt move to threaten divorce but he would leave. I remember the first few times I felt real serenity with him gone, feeling the right to it. It wasnt a straight path and I had to get past feelings of mourning until it became clear what I should have been mourning was my peace, serenity, and self respect (because I had lost it volunteering again and again in his craziness), but I got there eventually. I dont know how well I would be doing today, staying silent with him coming at me over and over again with craziness, blame, belligerence that he could say he didnt remember but assert was caused by me. Your journey will be your own. I wish you strength and kindness toward yourself as there is no perfection to this. Know you deserve peace. Trust your voice inside telling you who you are and taking care of you. Try to do nice things for yourself everyday. I find focusing on taking care of me always feels better than focusing on the things I get wrong.
Mari1988 said
Jan 3, 2021
Im currently going through it with my AH and we had words. I made a decision to end the conversation and he will deny it and now I don't care. I told him I have the right to be upset. I understand what your going through and I need to learn how to detach myself as well. It is very hard when you care soo much when we should be caring for ourselves and kids if we have any.
MC
Debb said
Jan 3, 2021
Mari1988, I am sorry you are dealing with the AH and his chaos.
Have you found working the first 3 Steps helpful at all? I know face to face meetings during the pandemic
I found that with the members of MIP and working the steps, that I began to find some serenity and ability to better detach with love.
Maresie888 said
Jan 3, 2021
What is real important for me is that the codependence which I certainly has around the alcoholic was there before I met him. Therefore after I left him the issues were still there
For me as someone with chronic post traumatic stress disorder it is essential to monitor my stress level. Around the former qualifier (s) there was more stress
Nevertheless now thst I technically have no qualifiers there is still stress. The pandemic is a major stress. Work is a major stress. My health issues were a major stress. My.own recovery issues were a major stress
When I wad with the qualifier(s) they were always trying to dump their stress on me. Somehow their issues were mine.
I am pretty vigilant about boundaries these days. I adamantky refuse to take on other people's issues. I have my own to deal with. Compassion does not include being dumped on .
My plate was full all last year. I had a real hard time regulatimg what I had to take on. Now I have s much better persoective
Then I also am really clear I have enough of my.own issues to.contend with
Maresie
Seahorse7 said
Jan 13, 2021
Circling back after taking time to digest all the wisdom in here, and taking in all the support as well. I am continually amazed that although we are technically strangers, you all do not hesitate to help the best you can. I do feel a little less alone.
Like any abuser, he has been extra nice since then. Im not fooled by it though, because its only a matter of time before it happens again. I dislike living with this kind of time bomb but thats where I am at the moment. I am grateful for the current peace, however temporary.
Also. I have started a journal page with some of the wise words here, that I can refer back to when I need some reminders. Particularly helpful is the thought (thanks Debb) that it is not so much that he wants to hurt me, but rather that he is trying to create chaos that justifies continued drinking. That does so much for me, to take the blame off of myself and put it where it belongs.
Once again, I am grateful.
Maresie888 said
Jan 13, 2021
I believe the need to create chaos is unconscious
In fact consciously they probably dislike being an alcoholi.
Certainly.consciously I.hated being a codependent
I did not know how to stop.
Alcoholics do not know how to.stop.
They have little choice about their actions because they refuse to put themselves in a place where they can embrace sobroety. One in four alcoholics will embrace aobriety. Sobriety means very different things to certain people
My own recovery meant very different things to me
I had to have pain in order to recover. For some people oain is indeed the great motivator. It was for me
Maresie
Debb said
Jan 13, 2021
Seahorse7, no thanks needed!!
I stills struggle with the chaos, but I never forget that it being created by an alcoholic, who is really not in control, that is why
they create the chaos to begin with, to perpetuate the reasons to drink and to compensate for their actual lack of control over their own lives.
Very sad indeed that we cannot do anything about it and have to find those Al-Anon ways to cope.
Ive been trying very hard not to engage when AH is drinking. This holiday season went as usual: He has multiple days off and all of them are spent getting drunk. Im trying to accept that he does this, to take care of myself and leave him be to do what he wants. Detach and do my own thing. Sure enough tonight he lashed out for no reason, accused me of being controlling in every way (am I? Im trying SO HARD to leave him be), but could not give me a single concrete example of how I control him. Something nonsensical about food and I dont know what Else. And hes not sure if we should stay together. It made no sense and made me wonder if his brain is now being affected. He blacks out every day that he drinks, I cant have any conversation with him that I want him to remember, he doesnt remember TV shows we watch together, he doesnt remember anything important that happens when hes drunk.
So when this started I tried very hard to not respond but it was so confusing and hurtful as to what brought it on out of nowhere, he even walkEd away muttering go fk yourself under his breath, and came back and just stared at me until I had to say something to defend my self. And down hill from there. I lost my resolve not to engage.
it is so very hard. I failed and I just needed to vent this somewhere, I know you all understand, no one else in my life, not one single soul, knows what I go through. Hes a great when not drunk. I grieve for what appears to be slipping away. maybe I should just encourage him to leave me when he says hes thinking about it. Get it over with.
I need a hug and theres no one to hug. Feeling very alone and sorry for myself.
Dear Seahorse 7
Al.anon.does not have a pass/,fail meter. i am so very glad I discovered that.
The ability to.detach is indeed a very big skill. Detaching takes oractice lots of practice.
Even after years of oractice the abilty to detach is not something we can just call up. When I am able to detach as I have been lately jt is a cimbination of a lot of elements. Being exhausred us not one of them. Two weeks ago I had signs i was getting irritable and close to overload. I cut back and immediateky revised my agenda
When I lived with the qualifier I spent months if not years on sheer 24/7 overlosd. When I cane to al.anon it took.a lot for me to trust that I could lighten the load.
When we come into al.anon.many of us are in deep.distress. The tools and suggestions in Al anon are of course heloful but we are trying to use them when we are under seige. That is indeed a doubke bind. I find everydsy life challenging. Life with an active alcoholic is extremeky challenging
I have soent the greater part of the last year feelimg extremely trigggered. Moving through that has been very difficult. However recently I have come to a place of greater oeace and hope. Hope is indeed a welcome relief.
I am grateful that I am moving into.a place where I am npt triggered as much
Some of us who end up in partnershio woth an alcoholic have s highly developed inner critic. We are unbelievably hard on ourselves. I have worked really hard to lessen my inner critic's influence
One of the al anon slogans is Live and let live thst applies to is as well. I can get off ounishment these days.
Whenever I was in a relationship the holidays brought up a lot. There are a lot of issues associated with the holidays. I felt every year that I had failed. My expectations were way way off
Now I do not have that many expectations. I am certainly still triggered but I no longer have wn exoectstion that I will not be.
Unfortinately I never found a relationship.apart from friends I met in recovery who was supportive over the holidsys.
I am glad you reached out to us and welcome you to this group.
It is very hard
Im in my 8th year in alanon. Im getting better at detaching, not engaging, letting go and letting God, and having to remind myself the only person I can change is myself. I will say that after all this time practicing alanon tools I do feel happy and at peace much of the time. Ive been with my A for 29 years.
Some of us stay with the A and some of us dont. That is a decision only you can make for yourself. But I would stick with alanon for awhile before you make any life changing decisions. I found that I was too upset, too beaten down, and too darn depressed to make good decisions.
Keep coming back. I believe there are meetings on the board here, and there are daily zoom meeting for alanon all over the country and world. Dont beat yourself up! You are trying to survive the best you can in a very trying circumstance.
Seahorse7, glad you reached out and really sorry that you had to experience the chaos.
I posted a reply to you on "Courage to Change - December 30th" post you made, but will
kind of repeat what I said on that post to you:
When AH lashes out at me, it is not me that wants to hurt so much is that he is trying to create the chaos that he thinks entitles
himself to continue drinking. Also, that ranting and chaos is a product of the mental damage to his brain due to the alcohol.
Understanding just those two points helps to put the ranting in perspective, so that you can detach and walk away. Working
Steps 1 and 2 help a lot. I have been married to AH for 15 years/together for 18 years all total and am still working on
detaching. Detachment is a work in progress and not easy. You are doing great, you did not fail!!
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
Hope I have helped!
-- Edited by Debb on Friday 1st of January 2021 10:17:17 AM
What I heard was not failure, rather a strong effort to recall and put into practice the lessons you have learned in AlAnon. As has been mentioned, I am so grateful our program encourages progress rather than perfection or I would have dropped out long ago...
Changing thought and behavior habits developed over years is often a long process, it certainly is for me. I am so grateful for the patience of the program, my higher power, and to a much better degree today: me. I have reduced the self-pummeling that I typically engaged in after I slipped in my endeavors...
Hang in there, you're doing well, so glad you shared with the group
There is another side to failure. When I fully dived into how I was manioulated I found that I could identify the hooks that got me triggered
Detachment is indeed an active skill. The way we can become like teflon is to work on ourselves
Success is indeed a road full of failures. You have to try to be able to suceed. Therefore there is no.failed miserably. There is working on suceeding
How lucky i am to be in a place where I can stio beating myself up about oerceived failures
I have indeed been around people who thrive on beating up.on others. I turned down an opportunity to be around some of them this week. Turning down that opportunity is a success. Knowing what will trigger me is so empowering
I know what it is to be mercilessly unsymlathetic to mysrlf. Being able to disarm ny inner critic has been so key for me
Maresie
((((Seahorse))))
Sending you a virtual hug!
I have been there. My spouse would never remember what he said, or how he acted. When I would try and explain why I was hurt/angry, he would tell me that I was the crazy one, that I was making it up, and that I wasn't being "supportive." I soon stopped trying to tell him anything, ever. But the hurt never goes away. It just stews inside you. I must say, that this was much more an issue with his alcohol abuse than his meth abuse. Honestly, the meth abuse was more of a shocker, but in many ways "easier" to deal with as a spouse. I know, odd to say this.
I had to return to Al-Anon for MY sanity. I re-learned about projection, gas-lighting, and something new; wet brain syndrome. Many other things as well, but these 3 things were about the addicted one, and really helped me understand that I wasn't the crazy one!! I delved into research of these things. Doing the research helped me to stop trying to reason with something that cannot be reasoned with (Addiction). When I finally left the marriage, it was because I knew he had damaged his brain, could not truly be a loving partner as he was (and as he wanted to stay), and that I deserved better. TBH, it was learning about Adult Children of Alcoholics and the possible damage this was doing to my kid that gave me the courage to leave. After that, I worked on understanding what I truly wanted, and if it was attainable with that person (I had already given him a "second-chance" (meth addiction) and that didn't work out so well). I learned many things about myself as well... some not so flattering. For instance, I accepted that I could not accept him as he was at that moment. And that I couldn't live the rest of my life in fear of relapse. That was a very hard one to understand and accept about myself, b/c I was always told that relapse is a part of recovery, and I always did strive to be the "perfect" wife. Accepting my feelings about this was certainly not "perfect," but it was authentically me.
I tell you part of my story in the hopes that you will understand that you did not fail. That you are not alone. That I understand. I believe everyone here can understand and empathize with what you are currently going through. But we are all here to tell you there is light at the end of your journey... no matter what the "end" looks like, it can get better for you. Your HP has you cradled... you just need to do the "work." It is about Awareness, Acceptance, Action. I found that Acceptance was the hardest of the three.
Welcome.
I am sorry you are facing the challenges of living with an actively drinking AH. Your experience was exactly like my life of years ago. Be gentle with yourself. I know how awful it feels, not only for someone to blame and insult you using twisted drunk logic but to keep coming at you. Its hard enough when it happens once but when the offender wont leave you alone and badgers you to respond it gets harder and harder to stay quiet. I cant count the times I failed to hold onto my serenity. I eventually told my AH he could not be present if he drinks. His big question was always, where do you expect me to go? I would laugh to myself because he seemed to figure something out on the nights he just didnt come home by his own choosing. I would tell him drinking is his choice, its his issue to figure out. He also liked to try to push the issue with the question of what are you saying? He would try to get me from a solid stance into a decision making realm I was not prepared to enter but I would repeat my boundary and nothing more. He would hurl the insults and pretend he won because I didnt move to threaten divorce but he would leave. I remember the first few times I felt real serenity with him gone, feeling the right to it. It wasnt a straight path and I had to get past feelings of mourning until it became clear what I should have been mourning was my peace, serenity, and self respect (because I had lost it volunteering again and again in his craziness), but I got there eventually. I dont know how well I would be doing today, staying silent with him coming at me over and over again with craziness, blame, belligerence that he could say he didnt remember but assert was caused by me. Your journey will be your own. I wish you strength and kindness toward yourself as there is no perfection to this. Know you deserve peace. Trust your voice inside telling you who you are and taking care of you. Try to do nice things for yourself everyday. I find focusing on taking care of me always feels better than focusing on the things I get wrong.
MC
Have you found working the first 3 Steps helpful at all? I know face to face meetings during the pandemic
are difficult to find. stepwork.activeboard.com/forum.spark
There are meetings for you here on MIP: 12stepforums.net/alanon_family_group_online_meeting.html
not sure about the times, maybe private message Overcome for details.
I found that with the members of MIP and working the steps, that I began to find some serenity and ability to better detach with love.
What is real important for me is that the codependence which I certainly has around the alcoholic was there before I met him. Therefore after I left him the issues were still there
For me as someone with chronic post traumatic stress disorder it is essential to monitor my stress level. Around the former qualifier (s) there was more stress
Nevertheless now thst I technically have no qualifiers there is still stress. The pandemic is a major stress. Work is a major stress. My health issues were a major stress. My.own recovery issues were a major stress
When I wad with the qualifier(s) they were always trying to dump their stress on me. Somehow their issues were mine.
I am pretty vigilant about boundaries these days. I adamantky refuse to take on other people's issues. I have my own to deal with. Compassion does not include being dumped on .
My plate was full all last year. I had a real hard time regulatimg what I had to take on. Now I have s much better persoective
Then I also am really clear I have enough of my.own issues to.contend with
Maresie
Like any abuser, he has been extra nice since then. Im not fooled by it though, because its only a matter of time before it happens again. I dislike living with this kind of time bomb but thats where I am at the moment. I am grateful for the current peace, however temporary.
Also. I have started a journal page with some of the wise words here, that I can refer back to when I need some reminders. Particularly helpful is the thought (thanks Debb) that it is not so much that he wants to hurt me, but rather that he is trying to create chaos that justifies continued drinking. That does so much for me, to take the blame off of myself and put it where it belongs.
Once again, I am grateful.
I believe the need to create chaos is unconscious
In fact consciously they probably dislike being an alcoholi.
Certainly.consciously I.hated being a codependent
I did not know how to stop.
Alcoholics do not know how to.stop.
They have little choice about their actions because they refuse to put themselves in a place where they can embrace sobroety. One in four alcoholics will embrace aobriety. Sobriety means very different things to certain people
My own recovery meant very different things to me
I had to have pain in order to recover. For some people oain is indeed the great motivator. It was for me
Maresie
I stills struggle with the chaos, but I never forget that it being created by an alcoholic, who is really not in control, that is why
they create the chaos to begin with, to perpetuate the reasons to drink and to compensate for their actual lack of control over their own lives.
Very sad indeed that we cannot do anything about it and have to find those Al-Anon ways to cope.
{{HUGS}}