Fear - dealing with the after effects of living in an alcoholic marriage
Overcome said
Dec 5, 2020
I have been dealing with many fears lately (I'm not proud to admit, but unless we get honest in this program we can't heal, right?), by sharing here I'm hoping to overcome some of them. In the last two years I have become increasingly scared to drive, scared to cook (meaning I don't know what to do), scared to do daily living activities (like taking a shower), basically a fear of living. I did not get this way overnight, nor did I make it up- it's a real fear, a phobia if you will, of stepping out and living in the real world. I would imagine it verges on being Agoraphobic. Agoraphobia (for those who don't know what it is), is a fear of places and situations that might cause panic, helplessness, or embarrassment. Agoraphobia is an anxiety disorder that often develops after one or more panic attacks. These are all situations that I used to handle with ease. Less than 5 years ago I drove across country from South Carolina to Missouri by myself with no fear at all. I also used to cook for my mom and several teenagers as my daughter was growing up and in high school. Definitely fear of taking a shower (only way I know to describe it, not a fear really, just an inability to step inside a shower stall, basically 'freezing up' and not being able to do such a simple thing as taking a shower- so yes, it is a fear of sorts I guess) In all these situations i basically have to 'white knuckle it" and push through the fear of doing the task. IT is NOT getting any easier as time goes on, like I thought it would.
At first I thought this whole thing was a result of a car wreck in January where my van was totaled, but I was not hurt. This did not make sense to me as I have been in worse wrecks before and actually taken to a hospital (which I wasn't in this accident), so why the fear now? My fear of cooking I felt was due to living with a woman that did all the cooking for me over the last two years and not having to prepare my own food, but now 3 weeks out and living on my own (well not entirely on my own, but living with my daughter) I am cooking for myself, daughter and my son-in-law and it scares me to death! What the heck is going on? I had a counselor tell me that the car wreck reaction was a PTSD one, which I find hard to believe because of having been in worse wrecks, but why argue with a professional? They know what they are talking about right? Again the reaction to cooking and driving is not a mild one, it is an all encompassing, immobilizing, debilitating one. I can not live like this!
After typing out my thoughts on these fears I have to wonder if the fear I'm experiencing now is actually the result of the trauma of dealing with years and years of abuse from the alcoholics in my life (4 alcoholic husbands); from jumping out of moving vehicles, to running my head into walls due to the desperation and suicidal tendencies I had at the time, staying in multiple safe houses during two of those alcoholic marriages, suffering abuse at the hands of my alcoholic and having to call the cops to the house, and I could go on and on; but those examples will give you some idea of what I'm talking about. I also know that many of you have gone through as much as I and possibly worse, but this is how it effected me. I am trying very hard to overcome these fears as I have overcome so many obstacles in my life (hence my nickname), but this FEAR that is all encompassing may have me beat. If it truly is agoraphobia Wikipedia says that treatment can help, but this condition can't be cured. This scares me even more.
I am laying this out there with hopes that your experience, strength and hope will help me cope with this all encompassing fear. One acronym for FEAR is Face Everything And Recover. There is another one, but I can't remember it right now; maybe one of you will remember it and share it with me. Thanks for listening to me ramble.
Overcomer
-- Edited by Overcome on Saturday 5th of December 2020 01:42:10 PM
DavidG said
Dec 5, 2020
This is not an answer, Overcome, but another ramble.
For me FEAR was False Evidence Appearing Real... which was an inside job.
I turned to TEAR... which was True Evidence Appearing Real. Like things were far too much for me. I couldn't cope with the reality.
In between the two- fears for tears- I try to chuck in the serenity prayer.
Overcome said
Dec 5, 2020
Thanks for your insight DavidG, False Evidence Appearing Real is the acronym I was thinking of. I think that is something like what I am doing now in this fear of the unknown. Thinking 'such and such' is going to happen, when in reality it probably won't. An example with my driving situation is I'm afraid the car will break down and I will be stranded. Reality is my car is well maintained and if it were to break down I have road side assist with my car insurance policy so I would have help if it did. This is one of the fears that immobilizes me unnecessarily.
Temple said
Dec 5, 2020
Dear Overcome--
This isn't Alanon, but the man who developed the technique cured a woman of fear of flying in 15 minutes.
There are many videos on YouTube. It is called EFT, and it involves tapping certain points on the body while describing how one is feeling.
It takes about 5 minutes to learn to do.
I hope you get some kind of help and fast. And it sounds as if the professional was probably on to something, at least to me.
Bless you.
Temple
Overcome said
Dec 5, 2020
Thank you, Temple- I'll check into the videos on youtube on EFT and see if that helps. I will continue to go and get professional help as well.
Freetime said
Dec 5, 2020
{{{{Overcome}}}}, I appreciate your honest share. I too developed some mental health symptoms as a result of living with an alcoholic, and the fears I developed during that time. It wasn't exactly the same as yours, but I was definitely affected. I certainly had some irrational behaviors.
I know now that my brain wiring was affected-- not only because professionals confirmed it -- but because after some years of Al-Anon and some therapy -- and no longer living with an alcoholic -- I do not feel that way any more.
Recently a speaker at my home Al-Anon meeting spoke about how working the program can help re-wire our brain, and that our brain has plasticity, meaning that it can adapt and change. She gave the example of how stroke victims can re-learn to walk and talk, or how when some part of the brain is damaged, other parts can take over the lost functions. I loved hearing that explanation of how we can recover.
I wish you healing. It was possible for me, with a lot of support and help.
Iamhere said
Dec 5, 2020
(((Overcome))) - I am so, so sorry that you are experiencing all 'this'. I truly have no experience in this arena - definitely have had fear and have felt paralyzed at times...I'm fortunate that I've been able to get thru it with recovery. I just wanted to tell you that you're in my prayers...I do believe as Freetime suggests that the brain can be reprogrammed. I don't know how or why but I do believe it.
I too wish you healing, better days and am sending tons of virtual (((hugs))) and positive energy.
Overcome said
Dec 6, 2020
Freetime and Iamhere thank you for your responses and prayers. I too hope that over time my brain can be "rewired" and I can experience healing and freedom from this anxiety and fear. Thanks again for your prayers.
PosiesandPuppies said
Dec 6, 2020
(((((Overcome)))))
I do not have personal experience with this specifically, but during my marriage to someone diagnosed with PTSD, I can tell you that the EFT does work! But you have to be willing to practice it (just like anything else I guess). My own therapist has told me that "latent" behaviors/fears can appear to come on suddenly b/c your brain no longer has to be in "fight or flight" mode. After hearing that, I researched that (of course), and I found it quite fascinating. It also helped me to understand some feelings/behaviors that I had as a result of living with someone who was addicted. Although, I can tell by your honest share that it is NOT fascinating for you, being in the thick of it. One thing the research did verify... Freetime is spot on... our minds are very elastic and can actually "reshape" or "rewire" if you will. But most, if not all, couldn't do it on their own. Our minds can be powerful allies, AND enemies. A double-edged sword.
I share this in the hopes you don't feel like your situation is hopeless. If I could give you a hug, I would!
&
a4l said
Dec 6, 2020
It's hard living anew. It sounds like the come down from years of running on adrenaline. Now the threat is gone logically but not emotionally. Very tough spot to be in. What's the overarching fear about really? We stick in relationships in pursuit of some goal, whether it's emotional or material or both. When they end, who are we now? Is that something your body is freezing over in order to bring it to your attention and reprogramme? Do you give yourself permission to take care of you? Showering, cooking, driving, these are all elements of self care, something we often lose in alcoholism. Maybe thats somewhere your internal dialogue could be rewritten. I take good care of myself. I am worthy of good things. I deserve peace. Not sure if any of that helps but I know the frozen feeling very well. I send you my warmest wishes, keep coming back.
Maresie888 said
Dec 6, 2020
I can go into freeze response in a heart beat. That is a perfectly natural thing to.do in a cruel cruel world.
I think I have said this before al anon is a program that was started 50 years ago. The literature remains the same. The whole issue of trauma and ACA and other innovative theories are here. We can access them too. We can pick and choose.
The other slogan you can look at is Take what you like and leave the rest
I have had to contend with major depression all my life. What a issue to deal with. What a real uphill struggle. Most of the time i was not even diagnosed
Lately I have been addressing the suicide of a very dear friend of mine. His suicide was a deep shock. I.am going to a grief support group for it. That grief is bringing tremendous insights in myself. Most of all it is bringing me a deeo.and enduring love for my.friend How I.miss him.
Some of us who survive very very dysfunctional childhood
develop this inner critic who is relentless. #You used to do this why cant you do it now # in many ways that is how we motivated ourselves to survive
I used to do a lot of things that cost me years of my life
Years
There is good and bad things in all our lives
This week my meditation teacher said that for many of us we keep longing for that #moment# rather than dealing with where we are.
I.certainly have a lot of issues with dealing with reality. I never got to develop mature defences
Add depression and a lot of bad health issues to that pot. What do you have?
Pretty steep problems a real.marathon to go through. That is without training
Thanks to being willing to delve into the grief work what I found is a much kinder way of looking at myself. I stopped judging my friend and started being nice to myself.
The last person some of us in alanon can be kind to is ourselves .
For some of us there are indeed times when life is real harsh. My to do list is real real big. I.work 70/80 hours week to ger outta debt. Not much time to crush that list. I nevertheless am on it.
Nevertheless despite the 70/80 hour week I can learn to talk to myself in a real soft voice. I can be nice to myself rather than everyone else but me. I can stop waiting for some else tk come do it
Where ever I was in the past is no longer a stick I.beat myself with. Whereever I was however I.did it was all good. How I manage now in the middle of a pandemic stumbling on s lot of debt. However I got there I am here now and the way out is no.longer with #why cant you#. The way out for me at lest is to do the small kindnesses i did every day for others for ME
I.want butter on my.toast. i.want to read. I want to be confortable in my own skin
I give myself that. I denied myself that in the past.
Today I did good. Whatever I do I.did good. Real real good.
I speak to myself in all the ways I craved to get from the qualifier. Of course he never delivered. i delivsr now. I deliver every day.
No more waiting for some highly unlikely person to do it.
I know it takes grear courage to be authentic, kind and soft with ourselves. I know it is totally unfamiliar to me. I got willing
However these days I am willing to give myself that much.
I.retired the stick. The stick certainly had its uses but now I am onto newer paths.
My dear dear friend who.died had a big big stick too. I.did not see it then. I.do now. He was up.against so mucb with that stick he used on himself. He got lost in it
I.am so glad you are here and we all get to be together in these dark dark days. What a gift that is
Maresie
Overcome said
Dec 7, 2020
PosiesandPuppies wrote:
"latent" behaviors/fears can appear to come on suddenly b/c your brain no longer has to be in "fight or flight" mode.... our minds are very elastic and can actually "reshape" or "rewire" if you will. But most, if not all, couldn't do it on their own. Our minds can be powerful allies, and enemies.
I believe most inequitably that what you said, PosiesandPuppies, is true about fears can come on suddenly as we adjust down from survival mode to everyday living mode again. It's like our minds are still stuck in that 'fight or flight' mode. I am working on working through this with talk therapy (mostly here, but also with a therapist) and I believe too that we can't do it on our own, we need the people in these rooms and our HP to guide us through. I'm also trying to use mediation therapy to help the anxiety, as you said "our minds can be powerful allies, but also enemies if we don't rewire our brain. Thanks again for your comments PandP.
Overcomer
Overcome said
Dec 7, 2020
a4l wrote:
It's hard living anew. It sounds like the come down from years of running on adrenaline. Now the threat is gone logically but not emotionally. Very tough spot to be in. What's the overarching fear about really? We stick in relationships in pursuit of some goal, whether it's emotional or material or both. When they end, who are we now? Is that something your body is freezing over in order to bring it to your attention and reprogramme? Do you give yourself permission to take care of you? Showering, cooking, driving, these are all elements of self care, something we often lose in alcoholism. Maybe thats somewhere your internal dialogue could be rewritten. I take good care of myself. I am worthy of good things. I deserve peace. Not sure if any of that helps but I know the frozen feeling very well. I send you my warmest wishes, keep coming back.
a4l, so much of what you wrote helped and I'm putting it all in my response to you so as to look at it while I type. I am definitely 'coming down from years of running on adrenaline' not just the alcoholic marriages but also 10 years of caring for my mom who had Alzheimer's. I need to take a look at what the 'overarching fear' is that is causing me to panic. Is it that i'm afraid I will do something wrong, or not up to another's standards; if so how do I need to reprogram that? I'm trying to use some of the internal dialogue that you have suggested. "I take good care of myself. I am worthy of good things. I deserve peace." Your response to my post helped a lot, thanks for sharing.
Overcome said
Dec 7, 2020
Maresie I know what it's like to deal with the suicide of a dear friend. For me it was an ex-fiance' and it was about a year ago that he succumbed to depression and the black hole that we know some fall into. I blamed myself for a long time thinking if I had done things differently maybe he would still be here. After we broke up and some time had passed he started dating another woman who evidently wasn't as understanding of his mental health state as I had been. They eventually got married and I heard that she was not in favor of him receiving professional help. I just kept thinking that 'if he had been with me' things would have been different. I would have made sure that he got the professional help that he needed. Boy was I conceited! Thinking that I was so much better than she would have been. Playing God with the outcome of Kenny's life, maybe I would have made a difference and maybe I wouldn't have. I will never know, but I can't beat myself up for walking away. We were not right for each other and i was not 'in love' with him but in love with the 'idea' of him at the time, so breaking up with him was the right thing to do. What he did with that was on him, not me. He made a choice to end his life, I did not. It still haunts me at times, but I have let go of that guilt of feeling responsible for his death.
Maresie888 said
Dec 7, 2020
I have.not really dealt with my friends suicide. When he was #ill# I was really preoccupied.with my survival
I did not have time to interact with him
Then next thing I know a.friend told me bluntly that he had died.
That friend is someone who I am reviewing the relationship.with because he is somewhat cold
The way he referred to my friends death was brutal and really blunt
I went to go to a group tonight but that group did not gel with me.
Now I have to find another one
I will give myself a lot of space to work through my friends death
I am far more gentle with myself these days. My catastrophozimg is.much much less.
Maresie
a4l said
Dec 8, 2020
You've had a lot of responsibility over the years from my looking. It's OK to rest too! I'm a rester, I love sleep and doing nothing but reading and eating and napping in an ideal world. I would love to one day live far away from neighbors and do just that with no anxiety about being intruded upon. One day
I have been dealing with many fears lately (I'm not proud to admit, but unless we get honest in this program we can't heal, right?), by sharing here I'm hoping to overcome some of them. In the last two years I have become increasingly scared to drive, scared to cook (meaning I don't know what to do), scared to do daily living activities (like taking a shower), basically a fear of living. I did not get this way overnight, nor did I make it up- it's a real fear, a phobia if you will, of stepping out and living in the real world. I would imagine it verges on being Agoraphobic. Agoraphobia (for those who don't know what it is), is a fear of places and situations that might cause panic, helplessness, or embarrassment. Agoraphobia is an anxiety disorder that often develops after one or more panic attacks. These are all situations that I used to handle with ease. Less than 5 years ago I drove across country from South Carolina to Missouri by myself with no fear at all. I also used to cook for my mom and several teenagers as my daughter was growing up and in high school. Definitely fear of taking a shower (only way I know to describe it, not a fear really, just an inability to step inside a shower stall, basically 'freezing up' and not being able to do such a simple thing as taking a shower- so yes, it is a fear of sorts I guess) In all these situations i basically have to 'white knuckle it" and push through the fear of doing the task. IT is NOT getting any easier as time goes on, like I thought it would.
At first I thought this whole thing was a result of a car wreck in January where my van was totaled, but I was not hurt. This did not make sense to me as I have been in worse wrecks before and actually taken to a hospital (which I wasn't in this accident), so why the fear now? My fear of cooking I felt was due to living with a woman that did all the cooking for me over the last two years and not having to prepare my own food, but now 3 weeks out and living on my own (well not entirely on my own, but living with my daughter) I am cooking for myself, daughter and my son-in-law and it scares me to death! What the heck is going on? I had a counselor tell me that the car wreck reaction was a PTSD one, which I find hard to believe because of having been in worse wrecks, but why argue with a professional? They know what they are talking about right? Again the reaction to cooking and driving is not a mild one, it is an all encompassing, immobilizing, debilitating one. I can not live like this!
After typing out my thoughts on these fears I have to wonder if the fear I'm experiencing now is actually the result of the trauma of dealing with years and years of abuse from the alcoholics in my life (4 alcoholic husbands); from jumping out of moving vehicles, to running my head into walls due to the desperation and suicidal tendencies I had at the time, staying in multiple safe houses during two of those alcoholic marriages, suffering abuse at the hands of my alcoholic and having to call the cops to the house, and I could go on and on; but those examples will give you some idea of what I'm talking about. I also know that many of you have gone through as much as I and possibly worse, but this is how it effected me. I am trying very hard to overcome these fears as I have overcome so many obstacles in my life (hence my nickname), but this FEAR that is all encompassing may have me beat. If it truly is agoraphobia Wikipedia says that treatment can help, but this condition can't be cured. This scares me even more.
I am laying this out there with hopes that your experience, strength and hope will help me cope with this all encompassing fear. One acronym for FEAR is Face Everything And Recover. There is another one, but I can't remember it right now; maybe one of you will remember it and share it with me. Thanks for listening to me ramble.
Overcomer
-- Edited by Overcome on Saturday 5th of December 2020 01:42:10 PM
For me FEAR was False Evidence Appearing Real... which was an inside job.
I turned to TEAR... which was True Evidence Appearing Real. Like things were far too much for me. I couldn't cope with the reality.
In between the two- fears for tears- I try to chuck in the serenity prayer.
This isn't Alanon, but the man who developed the technique cured a woman of fear of flying in 15 minutes.
There are many videos on YouTube. It is called EFT, and it involves tapping certain points on the body while describing how one is feeling.
It takes about 5 minutes to learn to do.
I hope you get some kind of help and fast. And it sounds as if the professional was probably on to something, at least to me.
Bless you.
Temple
I know now that my brain wiring was affected-- not only because professionals confirmed it -- but because after some years of Al-Anon and some therapy -- and no longer living with an alcoholic -- I do not feel that way any more.
Recently a speaker at my home Al-Anon meeting spoke about how working the program can help re-wire our brain, and that our brain has plasticity, meaning that it can adapt and change. She gave the example of how stroke victims can re-learn to walk and talk, or how when some part of the brain is damaged, other parts can take over the lost functions. I loved hearing that explanation of how we can recover.
I wish you healing. It was possible for me, with a lot of support and help.
I too wish you healing, better days and am sending tons of virtual (((hugs))) and positive energy.
(((((Overcome)))))
& 
I do not have personal experience with this specifically, but during my marriage to someone diagnosed with PTSD, I can tell you that the EFT does work! But you have to be willing to practice it (just like anything else I guess).
My own therapist has told me that "latent" behaviors/fears can appear to come on suddenly b/c your brain no longer has to be in "fight or flight" mode. After hearing that, I researched that (of course), and I found it quite fascinating. It also helped me to understand some feelings/behaviors that I had as a result of living with someone who was addicted.
Although, I can tell by your honest share that it is NOT fascinating for you, being in the thick of it. One thing the research did verify... Freetime is spot on... our minds are very elastic and can actually "reshape" or "rewire" if you will. But most, if not all, couldn't do it on their own. Our minds can be powerful allies, AND enemies. A double-edged sword.
I share this in the hopes you don't feel like your situation is hopeless. If I could give you a hug, I would!
It's hard living anew. It sounds like the come down from years of running on adrenaline. Now the threat is gone logically but not emotionally. Very tough spot to be in. What's the overarching fear about really? We stick in relationships in pursuit of some goal, whether it's emotional or material or both. When they end, who are we now? Is that something your body is freezing over in order to bring it to your attention and reprogramme? Do you give yourself permission to take care of you? Showering, cooking, driving, these are all elements of self care, something we often lose in alcoholism. Maybe thats somewhere your internal dialogue could be rewritten. I take good care of myself. I am worthy of good things. I deserve peace. Not sure if any of that helps but I know the frozen feeling very well. I send you my warmest wishes, keep coming back.
I can go into freeze response in a heart beat. That is a perfectly natural thing to.do in a cruel cruel world.
I think I have said this before al anon is a program that was started 50 years ago. The literature remains the same. The whole issue of trauma and ACA and other innovative theories are here. We can access them too. We can pick and choose.
The other slogan you can look at is Take what you like and leave the rest
I have had to contend with major depression all my life. What a issue to deal with. What a real uphill struggle. Most of the time i was not even diagnosed
Lately I have been addressing the suicide of a very dear friend of mine. His suicide was a deep shock. I.am going to a grief support group for it. That grief is bringing tremendous insights in myself. Most of all it is bringing me a deeo.and enduring love for my.friend How I.miss him.
Some of us who survive very very dysfunctional childhood
develop this inner critic who is relentless. #You used to do this why cant you do it now # in many ways that is how we motivated ourselves to survive
I used to do a lot of things that cost me years of my life
Years
There is good and bad things in all our lives
This week my meditation teacher said that for many of us we keep longing for that #moment# rather than dealing with where we are.
I.certainly have a lot of issues with dealing with reality. I never got to develop mature defences
Add depression and a lot of bad health issues to that pot. What do you have?
Pretty steep problems a real.marathon to go through. That is without training
Thanks to being willing to delve into the grief work what I found is a much kinder way of looking at myself. I stopped judging my friend and started being nice to myself.
The last person some of us in alanon can be kind to is ourselves .
For some of us there are indeed times when life is real harsh. My to do list is real real big. I.work 70/80 hours week to ger outta debt. Not much time to crush that list. I nevertheless am on it.
Nevertheless despite the 70/80 hour week I can learn to talk to myself in a real soft voice. I can be nice to myself rather than everyone else but me. I can stop waiting for some else tk come do it
Where ever I was in the past is no longer a stick I.beat myself with. Whereever I was however I.did it was all good. How I manage now in the middle of a pandemic stumbling on s lot of debt. However I got there I am here now and the way out is no.longer with #why cant you#. The way out for me at lest is to do the small kindnesses i did every day for others for ME
I.want butter on my.toast. i.want to read. I want to be confortable in my own skin
I give myself that. I denied myself that in the past.
Today I did good. Whatever I do I.did good. Real real good.
I speak to myself in all the ways I craved to get from the qualifier. Of course he never delivered. i delivsr now. I deliver every day.
No more waiting for some highly unlikely person to do it.
I know it takes grear courage to be authentic, kind and soft with ourselves. I know it is totally unfamiliar to me. I got willing
However these days I am willing to give myself that much.
I.retired the stick. The stick certainly had its uses but now I am onto newer paths.
My dear dear friend who.died had a big big stick too. I.did not see it then. I.do now. He was up.against so mucb with that stick he used on himself. He got lost in it
I.am so glad you are here and we all get to be together in these dark dark days. What a gift that is
Maresie
I believe most inequitably that what you said, PosiesandPuppies, is true about fears can come on suddenly as we adjust down from survival mode to everyday living mode again. It's like our minds are still stuck in that 'fight or flight' mode. I am working on working through this with talk therapy (mostly here, but also with a therapist) and I believe too that we can't do it on our own, we need the people in these rooms and our HP to guide us through. I'm also trying to use mediation therapy to help the anxiety, as you said "our minds can be powerful allies, but also enemies if we don't rewire our brain. Thanks again for your comments PandP.
Overcomer
a4l, so much of what you wrote helped and I'm putting it all in my response to you so as to look at it while I type. I am definitely 'coming down from years of running on adrenaline' not just the alcoholic marriages but also 10 years of caring for my mom who had Alzheimer's. I need to take a look at what the 'overarching fear' is that is causing me to panic. Is it that i'm afraid I will do something wrong, or not up to another's standards; if so how do I need to reprogram that? I'm trying to use some of the internal dialogue that you have suggested. "I take good care of myself. I am worthy of good things. I deserve peace." Your response to my post helped a lot, thanks for sharing.
I have.not really dealt with my friends suicide. When he was #ill# I was really preoccupied.with my survival
I did not have time to interact with him
Then next thing I know a.friend told me bluntly that he had died.
That friend is someone who I am reviewing the relationship.with because he is somewhat cold
The way he referred to my friends death was brutal and really blunt
I went to go to a group tonight but that group did not gel with me.
Now I have to find another one
I will give myself a lot of space to work through my friends death
I am far more gentle with myself these days. My catastrophozimg is.much much less.
Maresie