I am respecting Marasie's original discussion by moving some unrelated dialogue here.  I do welcome any member to offer ESH on this thread, if desired.

My post:  Bo - I can't control how you choose to interpret my warning. That's up to you. What I will say is you have been asked repeatedly via Private Messages to stop cross-talking, stop quoting others, and stop advising/judging others. Had I not been prompted by members to read your post, I would not have commented about your post. Your direct style, while not meaning to be, often is offensive, abrasive and shuts down others who really need a place to come to for ESH, support and gentleness. You certainly have every right to keep doing what you're doing and I have every right to moderate as I see fit to ensure ALL members feel safe. Your posts, at times, make others feel attacked, judged, directed, advised and such.

You enjoy pointing out that we are not 'official Al-Anon' which is unnecessary as it's at the top of every single page. That being said, that does not excuse anyone to post in such a manner that others feel uncertain, unsafe or unwelcome. I will do whatever I feel is necessary is preserve what John built for us and what Betty worked tirelessly to keep for us. So, to clarify more simply, not my opinion. Your post was brought to my attention by more than one member as being out of line.

Permalink Reply Quote  More

Bo's Response:  I was just clarifying...and on that note I will now clarify what you have now opened the door to and have said. First, I have NOT been asked repeatedly via Private Messages to stop cross-talking, stop quoting others, and stop advising/judging others. That's false. The truth is I have not received anything but complimentary PM's in over 2 years -- other than one PM and that was from you. One. Not repeatedly. I went and checked. If you have access to PM 's I would invite you to check them as well. Second, if you cannot go and check the PM's, then I offer to send them to you. Although, I do hope you have access to them and can check them. That way we don't have to deal with your opinion or mine, we can deal in facts! Third, the only PM I have ever gotten that was NOT complimentary was from you. One other PM I got from Betty was a question as to my intention and meaning on a post, and that resulted in a discussion between us. It was not a warning and she stated so. If you are going to label, accuse or state things -- let's at least be accurate, factual, and fair. That's not too much to ask. Lastly, I don't enjoy pointing out anything vis a vis official and the like -- but I do point it out and it is a fact -- and I point it out because it is a point that I feel puts certain commentary in a proper and healthy perspective. That's my opinion and my experience. Am I not allowed to share that? Thank you in advance for being fair, which I feel you have always tried to be. I hope that continues.

I stand by my share that you have been asked repeatedly via PM to stop quoting and cross-talk.  We can agree to disagree or we can have different truths.  I have clarified before that each member, including moderators, only have access to their Private Messages.  I do not have access to yours or others, only my own.  I do have access to the 'full exchange' - back/forth discussions - mine only.

I will not spend time going through thousands of private messages.  I will not disclose any dialogue from Private Messages from any member or any moderator.  That's not how I roll.  I consider myself to be fair, honest and of extremely high integrity.  I will not J.A.D.E. with you, Bo or in support of my truth.  

I will stand by my original post to you that your share was brought to my attention by members who felt it was not in the spirit of Al-Anon.  

I will NOT take my time to create a detailed list of rules/regulations for MIP posting as it goes against what John built and WE the members have nurtured.  If a member feels compelled to do so, it's an option that can be discussed on the business board.

I will NOT take action against any member unilaterally - to clarify, I don't read/react based on my own views.  In this case, the offending post was brought to my attention by other members.

I do NOT need more Private Messages.  If you (Bo) feel you've not been asked to refrain from quoting others, cross-talking in others' discussions and/or giving advice, let's then proceed with that request, formally, today.

In summary, this forum is for the members, by the members.  No member should feel unworthy or unwelcome, shame, intimidation, or fear.  MIP has always been a welcoming place, extremely gentle for anyone reaching out on the web.  We have a saying around my parts - We don't shoot our wounded!  

I welcome any member who feels the desire/need for change to post accordingly on the Forum Business, Reports, Changes, Announcements Area.  We have always tried to keep this 'side' clean/pure of Al-Anon related topics and discussions for anyone world-wide who might be seeking support.  

Speaking entirely for myself, I come to MIP to enhance my personal recovery program.  I scan ALL posts for moderation just to watch for language, spam, etc.  I don't comment on every post as I am not 'called' to do so.  I try to welcome new members, share when I feel I have ESH that applies and read to learn and expand my own knowledge base.  

I am a very private person and choose to not even share my name.  A few know it, and have slipped which brings me discomfort.  This is a 'me issue' and has to do with on-line bullies and trolls from forum/discussion board experiences.  I serve here with humility and have missed having Betty as a co-moderator.  I have considered leaving MIP because several I love, respect and admire have done so.  I have stayed as that's what feels right, just for today/one day at a time.

I have no issue resigning as moderator if another/others want to step forward.  I am personally very, very passionate that every person who stops by MIP is treated gently, with unconditional acceptance as I vividly recall the baggage I arrived with and how unworthy I felt as a human.  I believe it's also important to acknowledge we all have vastly different resources based on geography and so many people, world-wide, have no access to meetings - we may be the only example of recovery they can reach.  This is what I consider with each/every post, and hope others do too.

We have no experts in recovery.  Around here, we also say the 'old-timer' is whomever woke up first.  There are no awards for time in program and all members, shares, ESH matter to me equally.  

So - feel free to seek further clarification if needed, I will try.  For those who've PM'd me, I hear you and am doing what I can.  For those who have stopped posting, please restart.  It takes all of us for MIP to be what we want and need it to be.  Love and Light to all - make it a great day...

  ...following...   ...DavidG. 

  ...hmm... just to clarify... I don't recall seeing Hidden around for a while.

                is Hidden still here... ???

   I get scared here. Not scared like it was in my FOO.

      In the USA people can get sacked- and become forced to live on the street and die. That is a fact of life.

     The admins here, also can ban someone- lost but not forgotten. But lost forever.

I don't live in the USA- and I am accustomed to a slightly better deal.

There are mostly likely conscience issues here. How we deal with the cross-talk guidelines.

Another was raised yesterday, by a different person, on the Business Board.

Long tem... I think the business board is the place to update our rules and guidelines. I was trained early in the steps, traditions, concepts and warranties of service.

I think I understand how this works.

It might be easier to deal with a simple routine matter first- to see what happens... first things first. 

DavidG

PS IAm... 

             I happen to know what your first name is. This came out when Betty passed away.

             But, for me, here... ...you are still IAm... and you should remain so... so long as you wish. Your call. 

DavidG.

Adding an edit to show all edits create footnotes.

Bo -- no member or moderator can edit any post without a footnote made by the system. The only way for a post to be changed is for it to be removed by the original member and re-entered. Every single post that goes through an 'edit' has that footnote.

I am as cautious about security on the internet as I am my privacy and if this software/site allowed ANYONE to post as me, for me, etc. I wouldn't be here. I'll demonstrate in my post here and in David's post above to provide calm to anyone who may have concerns that random 'others' can edit a post.

Here is the edit I made after the post was formally submitted.

My second edit - the person who deserves the apology and should see it is Marasie.  Not you, me or another but the person who started the discussion that went sideways.

-- Edited by Iamhere on Monday 20th of July 2020 06:34:12 PM

Hi Everyone,

Thanks moderators and to all who come to share at this board. Everyone aids my recovery and I'm grateful. I also hope I to be offering only support and recovery when posting to others who come here especially the newcomer. None of us are perfect people. Who would want to be, that would leave nothing to learn.

Bo, I want to address you since all of this has come up. I have not reported you to anyone but I was uncomfortable with having my ENTIRE post copied and pasted by into your response to a post here. Whatever your motivation, I am not judging you for doing that, just asking you to not do that in the future. Thank you.

Pinkchip, it's great to see you again. You've been missed here and your points are well taken and appreciated. Yes, John himself could be a bear to deal with at times and a real pussycat at other times. He was very invested in seeing this site continue and I feel blessed to still be able to come here so many years since it's creation. I miss him here as I do many others who are no longer here Betty in particular who gave so much of herself to this site. I think many have been trying hard to be of serve since we lost her which to me means we love and value MIP and want to see it continue for many years to come. 

"The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level."

I found when the above statement was added to this board particulary the second sentence, the shares began to change greatly from an Alanon focus and Alanon principles. I suppose I would have preferred that it read "It is a method to share Alanon information, offer Alanon support, and practice the principles of the Alanon program." This doesn't need to be a WSO Alanon site for those of us here to share the Alanon program.

I have been here since a year after John created this site. I'm not saying this to you to give myself some sort of "special" credibility. I say it because I want to convey how much MIP has meant to me and my recovery. I was first a newcomer to the chatroom, six months later a chatroom chairperson and moderator and then came to this board. At one point, John asked us in a chatroom business meeting if we wanted to become World Service Organization approved. We voted no. By discussion in that business meeting, the general consensus was that members were practicing the Alanon program at MIP, things were working so why complicate matters.

As far as the Alanon message board, I believe I can say with confidence that John would not have divided this site into various 12 step program boards had he not intended visitors to receive loving support and information related those specific programs. He was a frequent visitor to the Alanon chatroom for meetings and at chat time and consistently offered unconditional love and support to newcomers and oldtimers alike. No matter his years in the program, he still saw himself as a work in progress and teachable.

Stubborn as a mule at times when he got something into his head but also able to be vulnerable and admit his shortcomings understandng that he wasn't "cured." He he liked to say of himself, "You can take the rum out of fruitcake but you still have a fruitcake."  

I, too want to remain teachable by my hp and this fellowship. My own recovery is my greatest reason for coming here. I know I don't have all the answers for myself so I certainly don't have them for anyone else. I do hope something I share is of help to another but IAlanon speaks about attraction not promotion of my way. I'd like to add that I've always felt we're family here, can reason anything out, remain loving and supportive of one another resolving any issues as they come up. Thanks for letting me share my two cents worth. ((everyone))) TT

Al-Anon has but one purpose: to help families of alcoholics. We do this by practicing the Twelve Steps, by welcoming and giving comfort to families of alcoholics, and by giving understanding and encouragement to the alcoholic.

Omg. I doubt I will be ever logging in again. This entire thread is just so ridiculous.We have members complaining about being quoted while at the same time I'm seeing members being quoted.

I'm seeing a member being publicly flogged,a member that has really helped me with their wisdom. Not everyone likes to be pitied and coddled.Some members appreciate the BS being put aside and being told things in a straight forward way. It's wrong to try to monitor and control how one member does things.

I had a run in with a member when I first started posting. We worked it out privately. I didn't like their approach,didn't like how harsh they were but I learned very quickly to take what I like and leave the rest.

This is such an unhealthy dysfunctional place. If I want this kind of chaos and drama I can save myself time by just engaging in the BS going on in my own personal life.

I'm pretty upset about all of this. I keep coming back and giving this place a chance but it seems to be the same BS over and over.

The world is a sh***y place anymore,so much anger,hatred,division,etc.This should be a safe place to go where none of that is happening.

Good God ppl,wtf?

Edited for language.

((((Hugs Family))))  

I woke up this morning into my usual routine which is read the page of the day from our literature while voicing my prayer with my Higher Power, Akua O` ka Lani (God of Heaven) and finding Akua's direction to the page of the day in our One Day at a Time reader (ODAT) It was suggested to me  by HP that HP knows our recovery path and how best to walk it.

Have you read it yet?  Have you read it in light of yesterdays discussions?  It is the light held over my path as my elder sponsor once told me.

Mahalo to my Al-Anon Family for allowing me to grow and to go face to face with my Higher Power.  (((((hugs))))) 

I am grateful for the people who moderate on here and take time to respond to people's posts. As a newcomer and now through to being a 'fledgling' (I still feel like a relative newcomer!) I have always felt welcomed and supported.

I am also personally grateful for what I view to be a diverse range of responses and ways of responding - I personally have gained so much experience, support and hope from all the members who have ever replied to my posts and also what I get from reading other's posts and stories.

I now understand about the requirement not to quote - but can also see the confusion where there is a button to quote.

I have never personally felt like anyone was judging me or giving me advice, but I now feel confused about the difference between sharing my experience and it being seen as advice and it has made me now think twice about responding to other people's posts myself, so that is something I need to reflect on.

This forum and its multitude of members have been and is a continuing lifeline of support for me and I thank all of you, its members, for being there.

Agree pnp, I also at times will reference a line or few lines when responding to a poster in order to give clarity to a point. I haven't used the quote function at this site. In fact, in honesty it's not occurred to me nor do I know how it works. I have put the few sentences in quotation marks and italics. I see many people referencing the words of the person whose begun a thread in order to better explain their point when responding. Additionally, when I begin a thread and someone responds and quotes a few lines from my original post in their response to me, I have no objection. To me, these examples of quoting are vastly different from hijacking a person's entire response to a poster by putting their entire share in your response to the poster. I consider my share in it's entirety to be my voice just as if I were sharing at a face to face Alanon meeting. I have never experienced or would I ever imagine anyone at my face to face Alanon meetings repeating my entire share before sharing their own experience, strength and hope. That would be really bizarre and it feels equally bizarre to me to have it happen here. TT

Maybe there are 8 or 10 of us here- who feel like we are sharing Betty's shoes, and

Betty's wisdom. Could be 16 or 18...?

We can shuffle around together- and put all of this together- over time...

and maybe even add some.

This is a lovely group, with wonderful people!  

While I have just recently returned to this board,I used to be a regular.Anyone remember when someone could get slapped with a fish in the meetings? It may have been after the meeting,but it was hilarious. TT?

Anyway, first let me say that I love this board and this group.There is so much recovery here. Even when I wasn't working the program,I came here for ESH (just reading,not posting) and it was always helpful. I kinda feel like sunnyfrog, although I won't be leaving the board no matter how this goes. I do feel that this should have been handled privately.I think that leaders should lead as they see fit and not apologize for that but I never liked bosses who chose to reprimand me in front of all my coworkers.

Not sure about the rest of you but I will admit that I like some of the posters on here but not all of them.Some can rub me the wrong way and I do not bring up their posts when I see them.Others I look for them to post and eagerly read what they say.I think that is just human nature. IAH is one that I always read. Alot of recovery there.Also, I like Bo and I look forward to reading his responses to my posts. He is a 'tell it like it is' kinda guy.I think someone else here said that they needed someone like that to sort of wake them up and it helped them on the road to recovery.Sometimes I need that cold fish in the face!

These days too many people are offended by so many things.We say take what you like and leave the rest.That is good advice whether you are in recovery or not.

People used to say "it takes all kinds to make a world".And thank God it does.

love you all, Iris

   TO ACCEPT THE THINGS WE CANNOT CHANGE...

      We face difficult, and sometimes impossible odds.

      We have all faced terror sometimes- much more than fear.

      We have faced rage sometimes- much more than anger.

     And joy too- from time to time. Looked hard for hope.

Bill and Lois W. had to face the 1929 economic panic. And they weathered it okay.

Even after the Covid-19 pandemic, many people are predicting difficult economic consequences.

In  a way, in Alanon we are already inoculated against this invisible enemy.

We have already been there, lots of us.  ...

In the face of these changes we might expect a lot of stuff- which we all might experience.

Which will affect our day to day life- and over which we have no control.

Well, only a little anyway.

Here again we must continue to close ranks, and carry on, somehow. 

                                                ...

I can share that to date, I have yet to experience growth without "discomfort," this is just how we learn.  From the very beginning, I was told the fellowship provides an opportunity to practice these al-anon principles. I do not believe we were ever meant to find an escape from earth school (except in meditation.)

My sponsor says, "in every good person there is some bad, and in every bad person there is some good."  True of every one of us.

This thread is loaded with multiple issues. Personally I am sad the PM feature has enabled this bullying thread.  Gossip is an "obstacle to success."  I wish the PM feature would be removed for not being a support."  As long as it is available, this will never be a "safe" site. If we are truly open to learning together, let's bring everything to the table, out in the open like F2F groups.  we are only as sick as our secrets.

And should we have the expectation that everyone must be gentle?   what if their personality is not?  My recovery has been a mixed bag, with many different personalities for which I am grateful.  God is everything.  when principles were at stake, I have been shown harshness.  Let's not assume we know what is right for everyone, let's be clear what is our business and what is God's.  Even if someone happens to run and disappear for a time, who among us hasn't?!  we find our way back, thanks to HP, the perfect Manager.

Let go and Let God work through personal ESH, this is how Al-anon works.  Let's be careful about assuming we should look alike, think alike, talk alike..  if we go down that road, Al-anon would get (and deserve) a reputation for being a "cult."   Let's not contribute to that.

Finally, my sponsor taught me never assume one person is necessary for anyone's recovery.  Higher power is vast.  In al-anon we learn that all have value.  The al-anon guideline of rotating leadership helps everyone, for all involved.  I am grateful to all who serve, who have served, and I am grateful for the many capable members who are yet to serve. 

The service work of MIP founders is also appreciated, service to the HP, above all.   They should not be brought into this, dragged into earth's muck when they have been given their freedom, please let them rest in peace.  This is "our lesson" to grow and learn from, those currently present.  No one should assume they know what might be said by them on this matter, at this time, in this space.  no one can know.

I have yet to meet anyone in our fellowship who does not truly NEED al-anon because people don't always act the way we want them to act.  That said, let's all stop counseling and coaching and breaking anonymity and making ourselves "special."  Let's all keep our hats at the door... even if the internet is an easy place to break rules.

 Let's all strive to do better tomorrow.

Please keep this thread open. Being anonymous, there is nothing personal, nothing we are all not guilty of, nothing to be ashamed of.  We maintain our dignity and self-control while allowing everyone to express their views and opinions. 

If anyone finds it helpful, the following questions are from Conflict Resolution using our Twelve Traditions. (S-72)

How can we put aside our differences and focus on our common goal(s)?

What role does a loving HP play in our conflict?

How can we maintain a united focus?

If our individual causes are adding to the conflict, what is preventing us from leaving them outside the door?

How can we be sure we are not trying to force solutions to please individuals?

How could aspects of this conflict affect Al-anon as a whole?

How does our conflict affect our focus on our single purpose?

How can we cooperate with each other while still respecting and maintaining individuality?

How does the way we communicate fuel conflict?

How can we improve our communication in our current discussions?

When in conflict, what can we do to remember that we share as equals in Al-anon?

How can we be sure we are not trying to force solutions?

How can we focus on our common purpose and not on our differences?

How can we create new ways to deal with conflict that are different from how we have handled conflict in the past?

How can we use the principle of attraction rather than promotion to resolve the conflict?

What are some of the principles we need to listen for in our discussions?

How can we listen to the principles in others messages, instead of reacting to their personalities?

hey 2HP....great points.. I always said I am as sick as my secrets...I like the PM thingy because if I need to chat personal with a mod or a friend, its there for me to use...I don't use it much...as to "everyone being gentle"  that is kinda impossible with the multiple personalities on here, but I am slowly learning principles over personalities..I can be a fire cracker when provoked, but I try to use control , but I am not afraid to set down a powerful boundary as needed....

I for SURE, don't know whats right for everyone..i hardly know ME, let alone another, so I try to keep "I" statements and "ME" statements..what I experienced, saw, did, etc...but in the past , I was "stone guilty" of trying to tell others what to do...I was WRONG....and as to look alike and thinking alike, if that were asked of me, i would RUN...I don't see that here..I see everyone being allowed to be themselves as long as they use proper treatment/respect of others......my HP is necessary for my recovery...to rely on ONE person?? I did that in the past with a bad sponsor who turned on me, exposed my private stuff, so I learned....she was IN RECOVERY for a reason...Only God knows whats best for me......

I know I mentioned John and Betty, especially Betty because she mentored me for a long time..I honor her by paying forward what she taught me....True, this is MY lesson while I am here and I slip and slide but hopefully move forward even if it IS in a zig zag fashion of ups and downs.....I know I NEED Al-anon big time...I will need recovery for the rest of my life..and every time I get on MIP (I belong to 2 boards here and I NEED them both) I learn every time I show up...may be painful, but I still learn, and if I don't?? Lesson repeats till I finally give in and be open, honest and humble and willing....................JUST sayin