AH, like many alcoholics I assume, has patterns to his drinking. I have been able to recognize those patterns for a while now even though he still seems oblivious to them. The patterns are likely recognizable to most of you though. Its the anxious or frustrated and must have a drink to cope pattern. Its the need to talk but cant find the words without alcohol pattern. And on and on. So many patterns! As I recognize more and more of them and as I learn to identify his weaknesses I find that peace and the ability to untangle myself from those patterns becomes easier and easier. Because of that, AH and I have been getting along great. Mostly because I finally - finally! - let go. I let go of years of resentment and anger and pain that I was clinging to and accepted that what will be will be. I accepted that despite his reliance on alcohol to cope, he is still a good man. He loves me. He has never cheated. He is not abusive. He provides for our family well and takes pride in that fact. He can certainly be emotionally manipulative though and hes often neglectful to our marriage but Ive accepted that those things come from a place of pain and uncertainty within him. Recognizing these things for what they are now protects me from them. All of this has led to a new found strength for me and has had the added benefit of AH finally considering individual therapy. This is something he began to think about on his own which as we all know is the only way it would ever work. Despite all these positives I still find myself questioning where and why it all began for him and what came first. Was it the anxiety, frustration, and lack of emotional understanding that lead to using alcohol to cope or was it that the use of alcohol stunted his personal growth in learning to cope with and master these emotions. I know that In the end it doesnt matter. Yet as AH has begun to consider the idea of therapy I cant help but wonder what came first and what therapy may ultimately reveal to him if he chooses to move forward with it.

{{{Twinkies}}}, your share is such a blessing! Thank you for this picture of the program in action - letting go, acceptance, strength and love -- and yet still wondering about the past and the future, as I do too.

There is a Japanese dish called Oyakodon -- it's chicken and egg cooked together. I think that's where I land these days, on the question of what caused what. I still find my thoughts wandering to what if I had done, said, acted differently than I did, could I have made a difference in how things played out? What things in my late alcoholic husband's family history and genetics were outside of his control and contributed to or caused the disease? How angry should I be about all that -- a lot, a little, none at all? Coulda, woulda, shoulda ...

I will share a miracle that occurred in my case. My husband decided that he wanted to find out if his drinking had hurt me. So he went to a therapist that we both knew, and told her that was his question -- has my drinking hurt my wife? As he related it to me, the therapist's response was, "You would have to ask her." So he invited me out to lunch and asked me that question. And then he listened to my response, my descriptions of how I felt -- for about 45 minutes. Thanks to my program, I was able to say what I meant but not say it meanly. And he did not JADE -- justify, argue, defend or explain. He just sought to understand. That was a total miracle. To be honest, my anger and fear did not dissipate right away. It took a long time and is still a work in progress. But this miracle reminds me that there is hope.

Twinkies, I am so glad you are on this journey with us. I'm taking it one day at a time.

Great work on your behalf for letting go of what does not serve you any longer.

I find that the longer i work my own program, the less inclined I am to try to figure out my AD's journey. Of course, on occasion, I still do wonder why this all happened, but I have accepted that there is no answer that will satisfy me. It was her journey, although clearly not the one I would have chosen for her. Her life turned out nothing like I had envisioned when she was a little girl.

Now though, I can see the gifts it brought to her development as a person. Being young, attractive and now successful in her chosen career, I see her influencing and quietly mentoring other people of similar age. Breaking the pre conceived notions that an alcoholic is a falling down dirty old man or woman in the back alley with no home.

Over the last couple of years, I have seen tremendous . positive growth, and that included her going to therapy of her choosing. What she uncovered there, or what transpired, I have no idea, but each and every day I am thankful for her growth along with my own improvement in staying in my lane.

Wonderful shares.
Thank you for the look into a different path.

&

(((Twinkies))) - good to see you and love the share! I always get more hopeful when I see anybody else working recovery - that is how it all works - ESH leads to more growth and so forth. The chicken/egg question has been asked by me about me (and others) for a long, long while. I can tell you that, like almost every other element of my journey, the answer has evolved over time.

I got sober more than 32 years ago. I was quite young yet already hit a very hard, fast, solid bottom - had I continued, I would have died. I had no knowledge of my family's history with this disease, so just assumed I was different, had the disease, did not know where it came from, etc. I accepted what was presented at the time. I would have/could have sworn that the substance abuse was the 'source' of my various maladies.

As always happens, and we hear in recovery, more was revealed. Neither of my parents shared that they both had an alcoholic father. I heard from other/extended family members. My father's father was a drunk when he was little and they often went without because he'd blow the paycheck at the bar if he was not 'stopped'. My mother's father was a late-stage/age drunk who found comfort in the bottle after all the kids left the house, and he was 'stuck' at home with emphysema attached to an oxygen tank. So, I felt that at least there was now a genetic component for me.

Yet again, more was revealed. As I began my Al-Anon journey, and heard about ACoA and continued step work, I realized that both of my parents are untreated ACoA. As I know more now, it makes perfect sense where I inherited much of my anxiety, worry, chase of perfection, lack of acceptance, etc. Which brought about more self-assessment and while I still do not know and may never know why, for as long as I can recall, I did not feel comfortable in my own skin. Not with my family, not with my friends, anyone - I felt like an anxious, perpetual chameleon with no true authenticity or 'normal'. The first time I felt the affects of alcohol, it all made sense, I felt comfortable and it gave me what I always thought I needed, confidence, assurance and the ability to relax.

I never looked back and did not go a single day without some mind/mood altering substance until I landed in treatment. The awareness that I might/probably had high levels of anxiety ever before consumption came after years and years of reflection, step work, etc. I truly do believe that more is revealed as we continue our journey. In the last 10 years, I've learned of more alcoholism in the family, back another couple generations and some sideways action, which also included some scandal, suicide, other mental health, etc. My parents are old-school who don't really believe in counseling/therapy. They kept secrets long and deep, most likely thinking they could 'wish away' the genetic diseases. We all know better today, they did not and I do not fault them for it. I know what I know because others were willing to share, not my parents.

So, a long, long answer with some history you may not desire! My share is so that as you and your husband move forward in your journey, some answers may just be unknowns until they are known! If I had known then what I know now, I would have 'been on guard' for the disease. I seriously do not think it would have made a bit of difference for my journey but I can still change the things I can. I've put together a full medical history as far back as I can for my boys. They now know the various diseases that have affected/afflicted previous relatives and can make informed decisions. I know who had alcoholism, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, Crohn's, etc. We are truly strong stock yet have some genetics worth knowing about.

My marriage has unfolded similar to yours. My husband did make some poor choices along the way and did not return to AA (where we met/married), which I came to accept. As time goes by, he changes and responds to the changes I've made. I have found most of it to be positive and am grateful and humble enough now to let him have his journey without my input, unless asked. I'm sending positive thoughts/prayers to you both - keep doing what you're doing --- it's looking really, really good on you!

I am incredibly impressed that you are able to let go of the resentment you feel about your A's behavior. That is an incredible achievement. I am humbled to learn there is a way through this horrible choking mess of toxic resentment Thank you for letting me know this is possible. You gave me hope that I can move out of this horrible place. Maresie

It's amazing that you are focusing on you, BUT at the same time, you are recognizing the impact the other person, their behavior, and their illness, etc., has on you. Sure, detach, let go, etc. -- all of that works, but in the context of ourselves. Letting go is great, conceptually, is great. But not in every scenario. Sometimes it takes more.

While alanon teaches how to cope and navigate a relationship with the alcoholic, addict, unhealthy, etc., person -- there is still the "anxious" we feel, or the "frustrated" we get. Through the alanon program, and recovery -- as we get better and healthy -- we are able to find a peace, serenity, and more. Many people -- especially beginners/newcomers don't understand that as it's a completely foreign concept to them -- begin to achieve a capability, a know how, which allows them to disentangle themselves from the alcoholic and what their drinking causes (drama, chaos, turmoil, havoc, stress, tension, confrontation, uneasiness, and so much more. But, at the end of the day -- unless the alcoholic finds recovery -- the alcoholic is still drinking. That in and of itself may lead to a place where life might not work for us. To each their own of course.

When I finally let go -- really let go -- life was fine for me. I was able to diffuse whatever happened in my home. But, my wife was still drinking. What happened is that I became at peace with that. It -- her drinking -- did not ruin my day, night, week, weekend, or life!!! But she was still drinking. Life became easier. While I accepted that what will be will be -- it was also my responsibility, to me, for me, to understand that nothing changes if nothing changes. I lived a life that -- I did NOT have to accept unacceptable behavior. That was happening because of her drinking. But, I was OK with that. Again, none of this ruined my life. It was up to me to decide whether or not I wanted to live that kind of life.

While I didn't make excuses for her -- I focused on me. One can be protected from things, but those things can still have consequences.

The program is there for us. One day at a time.

Thanks again for sharing Twinkies!!! I for one greatly appreciate it!!!

The really odd thing is when someone dies (with the exception of my parents) I have been able to let go pretty much straight away. It was an instant thing. There are some people I have been able to let go and torgive them that has taken years. I definiteky hold onto a lot of resentment In some ways that resentment is a bond for me between oeople. As long as I have a resentment there is a conection When I lose the resentment I seem to be able to let go. The qualifier recently contacted me. I know he has burned his bridges up there where he was for the past few years. I have not spoken to him in over 8 years. It was easy to delete the message There is also another issue for me in that the chaos no konger holds the attraction it did. There was something challenging about that chaos. I could feel useful around it. Of course every alcoholic tries ti get people to clean up their ness. The ex roommmate certainly wanted it. I am someone who knows how to put my needa last Putting my needs last has been life threatening for me. Knowing I put my needs last has been eye opening for me. I had some idea it was giving to be so generous. I had no realized what the implications were for that practice. Now I am putting my needs up there rather than shelving them for the greater good (of everyone exceot myself after all I do not exist) maybe I can bear the idea of letting go. After all I do not need to hold onto relationships that no longer work for me Maresie

It has long been said that...you can very easily tell the newcomers/beginners from the seasoned people...the healthy people from the unhealthy people...and the people who have found recovery from the people who have not found recovery...

The newcomers/beginners, the unhealthy people, and the people who have not found recovery...spend 95% of the time talking about and focusing on "the other person" (their qualifier).

The seasoned people, the healthy people, and the people who have found recovery...spend 95% of the time talking about themselves and what they do on a day to to day basis to live, to be, and to maintain being healthy. They know they are their own qualifier.

Put down the magnifying glass...and pick up the mirror.

'Nuff said. LOL.

Absolutely PaP!!! Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more!

I didn't view my stuff as "wrongs" per se, but I did get the slogan, "Helping Is Hurting" -- at least the helping I was doing. When I wasn't trying to control, fix, etc. -- what I was doing, I was doing from a place of love and caring. My intentions may have been true, valid, just, but I was hurting the overall situation. Who could ever see that on day one, LOL.

As I've long said...contrary to what I feel many believe...it's not a destination...it's a journey. Thanks!

I believe the alcoholic drinks no matter what. My younger sister became an alcoholic at 16. Drinking was natural to her. She drank to excess imnedistely My qualifier made every holiday a binge day. I took his drinking very personally Very very personally. He had no doubt been binging for decades. He continued binging after I left him. I mean really left him. Alcoholics love to blame their circumstances. The truth is they drink when times are good abd they drink when times are bad. I do not believe my years with an alcoholic were wasted. I know that my time with them brought me here. I had to be in intense pain to change. Change was necessary for me. I.am grateful to be here Maresie