New - looking for how others handled kids in a situation
mary_n30 said
May 24, 2020
Hi all,
I hope this post is ok -I am brand new to the forum and to al-anon, if this violates any rules please remove it.
I have a brother who is spiraling (fourth DUI, fired, about to be homeless) who has three young children that live with him (all under 10). His wife is sober, but enables him (my opinion) she covered for him at his job, and drives him around after he lost his license. The part I am struggling with is, once they lose their home (wife is unemployed and they are heavily in debt with now more legal fees), I'm not sure what to do. I can't watch three small children be homeless, but I also can't let them all move in with me (esp my brother and his wife). Also, lost as to how to support my mom. She doesn't know about the latest relapse, but she is disabled and I'm sure she will invite them all to her house, but she realistically can't take care of the kids. I guess I'm just very lost about how to detach when children are involved and ignore my mom's suffering? Are there any resources for non-custodial family members? I do realize making myself sick over this won't help anyone. Full disclosure I have not read any literature or been to any in-person meetings, but all of this is blowing up and getting worse by the day, I'm not sure where to even start.
Thanks for reading this.
Iamhere said
May 24, 2020
Hello Mary and welcome to MIP. So glad you found us and so glad that you shared. I am so, so sorry to hear what brings you hear and feel your worry and concern for the little people! I don't have any direct experience with this yet know others who've watched the disease destruct family units, including small children. The closest I have is two cousins, sisters actually who've both lost custody of their children due to the disease. In each scenario, the other parents had a safe environment and they were awarded to their fathers. One father had been in prison for weapons and drugs, yet still proved through recovery and rehabilitation to be the better parent (in another state, even!)
I know my state has resources for indirect family members to report and gain support. I also know my state has some shelters that take families. I suppose each state, and maybe even each county has different resources that you might tap into. Al-Anon is for any friend or family member who is concerned about the drinking in another - it certainly might give you local support and resources for your own concerns, anxieties, etc. Of course, we're in the middle of a pandemic so to find local members, I'd suggest you check out local Al-Anon offices, which usually have a volunteer to answer the phone or an answering service - someone should reach out to you if you reach out to them!
I personally make it a point to not share the story/life events of one family member to another as it falls into the 'gossip' category. However, in similar situations where others had the right to know about 'things', I've suggested they need to 'come clean' by xx/xx date, or I will out of concern for the health (of your mother in this instance).
We had a third instance in my family where (thru the court process), we placed another offspring of yet another cousin with an uncle/aunt. This 'force' our cousin to go into rehab and at least get her act together enough for the court folks before they'd give custody back to her. All 3 of these scenarios in my state did involve the family court process which I've heard can be more helpful in some states than others. Since it's a holiday weekend, google may be your friend for a bit, just to see if any resources pop for your area/state.
In Al-Anon we focus on our own lives and learn that we are powerless over other people, places and things. I hear your concerns and they are certainly valid! Consider what you can do, if anything, to help the children....that would be my goal in the same scenario! Unless an adult is reaching out to me and asking for help/advice/input/insight, I tend to let them fend for themselves...
Keep coming back!
mary_n30 said
May 24, 2020
Thank you so much for the reply! It really speaks to me. I feel obliged to try to help the children (rather than just totally detaching from my brother) but as for my mother, as hard as it is I will try to stay out of it unless she's asking for help. I will look into different options for the children so I can hopefully have some idea of how I can help them, I appreciate your stories, that there are other ways this can play out. I will spend the long weekend with Google!
And good point about gossip. I do want to try and not gossip about him, it is exhausting to spend my free time and energy worrying and talking about my brother and his issues. It is just so sad and not productive.
As a newbie during the pandemic who is in crisis, is there any book you would recommend I start with?
Again, thank you so much. I have very few people I can discuss this with, so it's very lonely.
JerryF said
May 24, 2020
Hi Mary and welcome to the board with your courage and shares. So very many Al-Anon members have the Experiences that they are willing to share with you if you can only call the hot line number in the white pages of your local telephone book and ask. We only give suggestion and share experiences strengths and hopes rather than give advise. I have had many similar experiences as you and found best that sharing with those I chose to support; family and not was to suggest they call whatever support services that we openly available to them for similar emergencies. There are so many of them from my own experiences religious and secular. Suggest to your brother and sister in law that they make those calls so they can start growing.
Care and prayers and ((((Hugs)))) going out your way. If you pray use the serenity prayer it does work for me.
-- Edited by JerryF on Sunday 24th of May 2020 09:01:20 PM
WendyP said
May 24, 2020
Hi Mary, I am in a similar situation as yourself,and feel very much for you. Especially as you are just starting out on this journey, believe me you are in the right place and having the Courage to change this for the better, not only for yourself, but for the Children. Please, keep coming back, and you will find/get help. It's not easy to face what you are facing, but with Recovery, it becomes bearable, A Day at a Time.
I have been in Alanon a long time, and have a large Family, Adult Children, Grand Children,and Great Grand Children. The disease has gone through all of them, and is well and truly alive. I have Grand children who are at risk,because of the behavior of their Parents. I especially have a Great Grand Son who has been and still is at great risk and is Danger, because of his Father's Drug and Alcohol problems. At one stage, I tried to get him removed from his Father, but no one would listen to me, especially the Authorities. The country that I live in, doesn't have a good track record of helping Children. From your story, it seems to be much more available, so don't give up Hope.
When I was going through it, I got the numbers of all that I thought that would help me. I reached out and spoke to people about my fears. I never gave up, and that is what I would 'suggest' for you. Find out all the help that is available for you, so you can help the children. It does help. Just getting it out, as you don't feel so alone, carrying and caring for Loved ones. I have gotten myself into an awful lot of trouble, withing my family, as I have been the Voice for my Little ones.
It brings me a lot of Heartache knowing, what my Great Grandson is living with and going through, and he is only 10 and has had it all his life. I know I am Powerless, not helpless. I couldn't do it without this online Programme, my Faith, in My God, and Alanon. This all brings me Peace, and enables me to live with my fears for my Grand Children, and Great Grand Children. Also, knowing that I am doing something Positive, and I am part of the Solution, not the Problem.
That is what you are doing, by reaching out, to get help for the Children, and others, you are part to the Solution, not the problem, and you need to be proud of yourself, for taking the courage in doing what you are doing, as I have found, not too many people do it. I am proud of you, don't give up, as there are solutions to your concerns.
I will keep you in my Prayers, and wish you well, in your Journey. You are certainly, not alone. I can't take away your Pain, but I will hold your Hand,while you are taking this path,and searching for your Answers, as, truly, I know exactly what you are going through,and how you feel.
My Love to you,
WendyP.
mary_n30 said
May 25, 2020
Thank you Jerry and Wendy - I appreciate your responses. It also makes me feel like others have been through this horror (which is not comforting, but just less isolating). Wendy it hurts my heart to hear about your great grandson. I will pray for him and for you. Alcoholism is such a destructive disease.
I do feel much better since I am gathering some resources that I can call if my brother and sister in law won't do it (services for children). And I will try to let the adults fend for themselves. I can't force my brother to stop drinking, and I can't stop my mom from handling things the way she wants to. But I have been looking at the steps and think the more I get ready then I can at least maybe hand my mom a book for her to read.
It is so sickening to watch a family fall apart in every way. But thank you also for mentioning the serenity prayer - so much truth in it and I am trying so hard to take it heart.
Thank you again!
PosiesandPuppies said
May 25, 2020
Sending you hugs and support Mary. I do not have experience with this. That does not mean I can't understand your dilemma nor how you feel. It is very hard to know how to "stay within your hula hoop" when it comes to children being affected by the fallout of this disease. One thing I try and keep in mind... they do not have a voice of their own. Then I 'Practice the Pause.' So that I can make sure to make a rational decision, not just react to a situation.
Around here, one of the best books recommended is "Co-dependent No More" by Melodie Beattie. Please know that I am not trying to label you. I found many of the co-dependent "characteristics" didn't apply to me... but I found a lot of useful information in that one little book!
You have already received some great information from the "veterans" here. Peace to you this weekend!
mary_n30 said
May 25, 2020
Thanks Posies!
I will check out the co-dependency book. While I am not sure if I would be defined as one, all the hours spent "helping"my brother in the past when his life was falling apart, "counseling" him for hours and hours and taking his calls all night, as well as researching ways to get him out of trouble sure did not feel healthy. So I definitely have some tendencies! After his latest mess, I really want to walk away because I think it's finally clicking (after 20 years!!) that he is well and truly an alcoholic/drug addict and that only he can choose to be sober - nothing we say/do will change anything for him. The kids are my only concern (as well as my mom - working on figuring how to help rather than enable).
Thanks again!
mamalioness said
May 25, 2020
Hi mary, and welcome to the group...I never went through this and so can't do anything but give support and a loving ear...I agree with Iamhere...There are places you can call re: the little kids..SO SO sorry you are burdened with this..Alcoholism impacts the entire family and its so sad!!! You are here and i am glad. Program shows us how to take care of ourselves, focus on our recovery, our mental health and that we are absolutely powerless over another person's self destruction...Wife enabling him is only prolonging his demise...Sad, but happens all the time...the little ones are the ones i am concerned about...If there is no safe family place for them to be at, maybe calling a welfare/child service might be best..I don't know...Can't tell you what to do, but the little ones neeed to be safe..You know the dynamics, I don't, so I am sure as you pause, pray and think, you can come up with some good way for the kids to be in....I get sad when I read stories like this, those poor kids and bless your heart for caring for them like you do...Don't beat yourself up over not being able to take these people in, you would be buying into a nightmare for sure..I'm hoping that he can hit bottom and end up in rehab and then AA program..but that is his choice, his responsibility and noone can force him to get help................sending you lots of prayer
mary_n30 said
May 25, 2020
Thank you for the kind words Rose!
Sadly my brother is no stranger to rehab, he's been many times for varying lengths (I think 4 or 5 times - he's in now but I just don't feel a lot of hope due to the past and has attempted AA multiple times as well). His issues run deep, he has been diagnosed with depression, but there are other suspected mental health issues (borderline personality). He talks a good game and is always so sorry, but now that he has all these young children and he is having much less time between episodes (used to be years - now it's measured in months and weeks) and the consequences are getting so much more serious, I dread getting his calls/texts. If the children didn't come with my brother and sister in law I would take them in - but I can't take those two.
Your words about not being able to stop someone's self-destruction is so true! But it is so hard. I am so grateful for this group - I have gotten more support over this weekend than from others in my life (friends specifically) - they just don't get it or have ideas that we have all tried a million times.
Thanks again - I truly appreciate it!
Mary
Iamhere said
May 25, 2020
Sorry for the long delay Mary - my day got away from me....Yes, it is exhausting worrying about another - this disease is just so darn cunning, baffling and powerful - just more added wood to the fire. I would recommend you consider How Al-Anon Works, which does give insight into how the program can best help anyone who has worry about drinking in a family member or friend. When I arrived, my thinking was scattered and distorted, so I got more confused by the Co-Dependent No More. I have this book and several others by the author, and had to set them aside for a while until I got my feet under me in basic Al-Anon recovery.
If you go to the official Al-Anon website, you'll see many choices of literature. If you have a library, they may have some titles that you could explore to see if it's worth the purchase to you. How Al-Anon works can be 'dry' reading but it is very informative. I readily will admit I pick it up way less often than I do our daily readers, which there are a few - Courage to Change, One Day at a Time in Al-Anon are 2 of a few!
Hope this helps - keep coming back and just practice small changes, one day at a time and for me, this gave me just enough hope and intrigue to continue the next day, one day at a time!
a4l said
May 26, 2020
Welcome Mary. I echo the suggestion you seek out support for yourself in the Alanon programme. Only requirement to membership is being affected by the drinking of a loved one. It certainly sounds like you're caught in the whirlpool of your brothers life. You have the power to change that. You can elect to learn how to step out of his business of being an alcoholic with all the traits and sufferings of an alcoholic and get on with your own life.
Regarding children, I think its personally very sad when any family member, parent or otherwise uses them as a method of controlling or impacting another persons life whether its disguised as concern or otherwise. State care is hardly a picnic. I hope you get the help you need for the sake of the children you claim to care about.
mary_n30 said
May 26, 2020
Thanks for the book suggestions Iamhere, I did look at the Al-anon page - I just got a bit overwhelmed and wasn't sure which was best - so I'll just try to read a few excerpts and just start with one!
A4l - thanks for the comment. You are right about state care - I have heard the horror stories. I really have no idea what to do, but yes I will start by reading some Al-anon literature to at least try to understand the program.
Hi all,
I hope this post is ok -I am brand new to the forum and to al-anon, if this violates any rules please remove it.
I have a brother who is spiraling (fourth DUI, fired, about to be homeless) who has three young children that live with him (all under 10). His wife is sober, but enables him (my opinion) she covered for him at his job, and drives him around after he lost his license. The part I am struggling with is, once they lose their home (wife is unemployed and they are heavily in debt with now more legal fees), I'm not sure what to do. I can't watch three small children be homeless, but I also can't let them all move in with me (esp my brother and his wife). Also, lost as to how to support my mom. She doesn't know about the latest relapse, but she is disabled and I'm sure she will invite them all to her house, but she realistically can't take care of the kids. I guess I'm just very lost about how to detach when children are involved and ignore my mom's suffering? Are there any resources for non-custodial family members? I do realize making myself sick over this won't help anyone. Full disclosure I have not read any literature or been to any in-person meetings, but all of this is blowing up and getting worse by the day, I'm not sure where to even start.
Thanks for reading this.
I know my state has resources for indirect family members to report and gain support. I also know my state has some shelters that take families. I suppose each state, and maybe even each county has different resources that you might tap into. Al-Anon is for any friend or family member who is concerned about the drinking in another - it certainly might give you local support and resources for your own concerns, anxieties, etc. Of course, we're in the middle of a pandemic so to find local members, I'd suggest you check out local Al-Anon offices, which usually have a volunteer to answer the phone or an answering service - someone should reach out to you if you reach out to them!
I personally make it a point to not share the story/life events of one family member to another as it falls into the 'gossip' category. However, in similar situations where others had the right to know about 'things', I've suggested they need to 'come clean' by xx/xx date, or I will out of concern for the health (of your mother in this instance).
We had a third instance in my family where (thru the court process), we placed another offspring of yet another cousin with an uncle/aunt. This 'force' our cousin to go into rehab and at least get her act together enough for the court folks before they'd give custody back to her. All 3 of these scenarios in my state did involve the family court process which I've heard can be more helpful in some states than others. Since it's a holiday weekend, google may be your friend for a bit, just to see if any resources pop for your area/state.
In Al-Anon we focus on our own lives and learn that we are powerless over other people, places and things. I hear your concerns and they are certainly valid! Consider what you can do, if anything, to help the children....that would be my goal in the same scenario! Unless an adult is reaching out to me and asking for help/advice/input/insight, I tend to let them fend for themselves...
Keep coming back!
Thank you so much for the reply! It really speaks to me. I feel obliged to try to help the children (rather than just totally detaching from my brother) but as for my mother, as hard as it is I will try to stay out of it unless she's asking for help. I will look into different options for the children so I can hopefully have some idea of how I can help them, I appreciate your stories, that there are other ways this can play out. I will spend the long weekend with Google!
And good point about gossip. I do want to try and not gossip about him, it is exhausting to spend my free time and energy worrying and talking about my brother and his issues. It is just so sad and not productive.
As a newbie during the pandemic who is in crisis, is there any book you would recommend I start with?
Again, thank you so much. I have very few people I can discuss this with, so it's very lonely.
Hi Mary and welcome to the board with your courage and shares. So very many Al-Anon members have the Experiences that they are willing to share with you if you can only call the hot line number in the white pages of your local telephone book and ask. We only give suggestion and share experiences strengths and hopes rather than give advise. I have had many similar experiences as you and found best that sharing with those I chose to support; family and not was to suggest they call whatever support services that we openly available to them for similar emergencies. There are so many of them from my own experiences religious and secular. Suggest to your brother and sister in law that they make those calls so they can start growing.
Care and prayers and ((((Hugs)))) going out your way. If you pray use the serenity prayer it does work for me.
-- Edited by JerryF on Sunday 24th of May 2020 09:01:20 PM
Hi Mary, I am in a similar situation as yourself,and feel very much for you. Especially as you are just starting out on this journey, believe me you are in the right place and having the Courage to change this for the better, not only for yourself, but for the Children. Please, keep coming back, and you will find/get help. It's not easy to face what you are facing, but with Recovery, it becomes bearable, A Day at a Time.
I have been in Alanon a long time, and have a large Family, Adult Children, Grand Children,and Great Grand Children. The disease has gone through all of them, and is well and truly alive. I have Grand children who are at risk,because of the behavior of their Parents. I especially have a Great Grand Son who has been and still is at great risk and is Danger, because of his Father's Drug and Alcohol problems. At one stage, I tried to get him removed from his Father, but no one would listen to me, especially the Authorities. The country that I live in, doesn't have a good track record of helping Children. From your story, it seems to be much more available, so don't give up Hope.
When I was going through it, I got the numbers of all that I thought that would help me. I reached out and spoke to people about my fears. I never gave up, and that is what I would 'suggest' for you. Find out all the help that is available for you, so you can help the children. It does help. Just getting it out, as you don't feel so alone, carrying and caring for Loved ones. I have gotten myself into an awful lot of trouble, withing my family, as I have been the Voice for my Little ones.
It brings me a lot of Heartache knowing, what my Great Grandson is living with and going through, and he is only 10 and has had it all his life. I know I am Powerless, not helpless. I couldn't do it without this online Programme, my Faith, in My God, and Alanon. This all brings me Peace, and enables me to live with my fears for my Grand Children, and Great Grand Children. Also, knowing that I am doing something Positive, and I am part of the Solution, not the Problem.
That is what you are doing, by reaching out, to get help for the Children, and others, you are part to the Solution, not the problem, and you need to be proud of yourself, for taking the courage in doing what you are doing, as I have found, not too many people do it. I am proud of you, don't give up, as there are solutions to your concerns.
I will keep you in my Prayers, and wish you well, in your Journey. You are certainly, not alone. I can't take away your Pain, but I will hold your Hand,while you are taking this path,and searching for your Answers, as, truly, I know exactly what you are going through,and how you feel.
My Love to you,
WendyP.
Thank you Jerry and Wendy - I appreciate your responses. It also makes me feel like others have been through this horror (which is not comforting, but just less isolating). Wendy it hurts my heart to hear about your great grandson. I will pray for him and for you. Alcoholism is such a destructive disease.
I do feel much better since I am gathering some resources that I can call if my brother and sister in law won't do it (services for children). And I will try to let the adults fend for themselves. I can't force my brother to stop drinking, and I can't stop my mom from handling things the way she wants to. But I have been looking at the steps and think the more I get ready then I can at least maybe hand my mom a book for her to read.
It is so sickening to watch a family fall apart in every way. But thank you also for mentioning the serenity prayer - so much truth in it and I am trying so hard to take it heart.
Thank you again!
Around here, one of the best books recommended is "Co-dependent No More" by Melodie Beattie. Please know that I am not trying to label you. I found many of the co-dependent "characteristics" didn't apply to me... but I found a lot of useful information in that one little book!
You have already received some great information from the "veterans" here. Peace to you this weekend!
Thanks Posies!
I will check out the co-dependency book. While I am not sure if I would be defined as one, all the hours spent "helping"my brother in the past when his life was falling apart, "counseling" him for hours and hours and taking his calls all night, as well as researching ways to get him out of trouble sure did not feel healthy. So I definitely have some tendencies! After his latest mess, I really want to walk away because I think it's finally clicking (after 20 years!!) that he is well and truly an alcoholic/drug addict and that only he can choose to be sober - nothing we say/do will change anything for him. The kids are my only concern (as well as my mom - working on figuring how to help rather than enable).
Thanks again!
Thank you for the kind words Rose!
Sadly my brother is no stranger to rehab, he's been many times for varying lengths (I think 4 or 5 times - he's in now but I just don't feel a lot of hope due to the past and has attempted AA multiple times as well). His issues run deep, he has been diagnosed with depression, but there are other suspected mental health issues (borderline personality). He talks a good game and is always so sorry, but now that he has all these young children and he is having much less time between episodes (used to be years - now it's measured in months and weeks) and the consequences are getting so much more serious, I dread getting his calls/texts. If the children didn't come with my brother and sister in law I would take them in - but I can't take those two.
Your words about not being able to stop someone's self-destruction is so true! But it is so hard. I am so grateful for this group - I have gotten more support over this weekend than from others in my life (friends specifically) - they just don't get it or have ideas that we have all tried a million times.
Thanks again - I truly appreciate it!
Mary
If you go to the official Al-Anon website, you'll see many choices of literature. If you have a library, they may have some titles that you could explore to see if it's worth the purchase to you. How Al-Anon works can be 'dry' reading but it is very informative. I readily will admit I pick it up way less often than I do our daily readers, which there are a few - Courage to Change, One Day at a Time in Al-Anon are 2 of a few!
Hope this helps - keep coming back and just practice small changes, one day at a time and for me, this gave me just enough hope and intrigue to continue the next day, one day at a time!
Thanks for the book suggestions Iamhere, I did look at the Al-anon page - I just got a bit overwhelmed and wasn't sure which was best - so I'll just try to read a few excerpts and just start with one!
A4l - thanks for the comment. You are right about state care - I have heard the horror stories. I really have no idea what to do, but yes I will start by reading some Al-anon literature to at least try to understand the program.