This morning I received a text message from my cousin that my uncle passed. He was my Dad's brother. I ran outside to the mailbox to retrieve my uncle's birthday card before the mailman picked it up. His birthday is in a few days. I grew up on the same block with my cousins and we were over each other's houses several times a week. Sadly, those fond memories didn't carry through my adult years when I was in over my head with the ramifications of the disease. I called my uncle for emotional support... and, it was not a good move... not only was he unsupportive, but he was nasty.
The nastiness progressed as my aunt and uncle became angrier and angrier with me.
Other than missing family dinners, I don't know my crime. Years ago, I went to make amends with my aunt, she assured me that she did not understand, did not want to understand, and did not forgive me. She said she did not want a relationship with me.
I prayed and held some small semblance for hope. With my uncle's passing, so did hope. My cousins are now carrying the torch and want nothing to do with me. In the text, my cousin said he didn't want me to find out by reading my uncle's obituary. I am thankful for the text. I wish there could be more.
I know I can pray. And I do. In my virtual face to face meeting, the topic was surrender. It's becoming clear to me that I had not... a piece of me resisted and stills resists the great divide between me and my relatives.
Life feels so short. I am wired to want close family and friends. I am blessed with my HP, daughter, some amazing friends, and MIP/ Alanon. I'm realizing I need to strengthen my relationship with my HP.
Thoughts on support would be greatly appreciated and thank you.
a4l said
May 18, 2020
((((Bud)))) I'm sorry for your loss. I can well relate to Great Divides in my own family.
I've come to categorize it as a consequence of the disease. When the hurtful stuff happens, it still hurts, sometimes. But mostly I am so grateful to have escaped all the enmeshed insanity of it all. I could never go back to living my life in such a narrow manner with such narrow people. Firstly it would bore me. Secondly it would most likely infect me: family disease. Thirdly, I find it easier to love people who are difficult to love when I'm not forced to participate in their day to day lives.
My first loss to Death I was prevented from attending the social rituals of mourning (Polynesian funeral rites are very ritualised). I accepted however that the nearest families needs were deeper than my own ( she was my former mother in law, really beautiful Lady who was kind to me and I loved her), and farewelled her in the stars beside the rugged coastline. I cried for her, spoke my feelings and said my goodbyes.
It's a sad reflection on dysfunctional family structures when attempts are made to restrict a family members right to grieve. But remember that you don't need any ones permission to say goodbye. Funerals really are for the living. A ritual to assist with coping emotionally and psychologically. But there's more than one way to say good bye to a loved one, and you need only your own permission to do that.
Sending lots of love and comfort your way.
Maresie888 said
May 19, 2020
My own family is fractured and very dysfunctional. One of them being my cousin who is most certainly mired in this disease.
I think you got a double message because your cousin most certainly let you know about this development. That is an indication of concern. .
My mother's death, which was when I was with my qualifier, was very significant for me. I had not interacted with my mother for decades by then. Furthermore it brought more issues with the discovery of her will.
I most certainly understand how it is to be ostracized and scapegoated. I know what it is to long for that family connection
I have had to build those connections elsewhere. My family was incredibly enmeshed. Enmeshment where there is very little differentiation between people is particularly difficult to deal with.
I am very sorry for your loss. I understand the longing for connection
Maresie
bud said
May 19, 2020
Thank you a4l - Your post was chockfull of resonating reminders. There are times, like this, when I feel sentimental and have a narrow focus. Taking a step back to see the entire picture is important so I don't obsess over things that hurt.
I took a few moments to imagine what it would be like to reconnect and it would be similar - reconnecting with judgmental & controlling people who will only see me as something much less that who I am. I had been judged for not going to a "good enough" school, not getting "good enough" schooling, not marrying a man within my religion, not calling and contacting them on a weekly basis, etc. One of my uncle's mottos was "he who cares the least, wins"
When I stop romanticizing the situation, it is much easier to love them from afar.
I plan to have my own ceremony to say good bye to my Dad's brother. It will be from a place of love and forgiveness. I hope he is in a place where he is at peace. Bonus if there is clarity on truths... but, I know I must turn to my HP for my own serenity and truth. Many thanks!
Thank you Maresie - I've been in Alanon for a long time and am constantly grateful that others understand similar threads of underlying themes. I'm grateful for not feeling so alone. Enmeshment - a term I haven't thought of in a while, resonates. I'm sure I don't know many reasons for the enmeshment or the nature of it... I saw things from a child's perspective growing up... and as an adult, just baffled. The disease is like spreading poison... and this is the aftermath. I'll send flowers and cards, as appropriate. I'm grateful for your pointing out an indication of concern. Many thanks!
SerenityRUS said
May 19, 2020
Big hugs Bud,
Family is super hard for many people, I want the Norman Rockwell family view and that is never going to happen for me because I have an expectation that is so big that it's really not reasonable. It's really not fair to the family that I have either. I guess my dad is right in some ways .. I complicate relationships .. lol. Personally I think you need some kind of accountability in a relationship however that's just me .. LOL.
One thing that I discovered much to my dismay through alanon and other counseling is that perception is a powerful thing. Because I am not perfect, I realize that for some people I am that toxic person in their life, it's not because I'm a horrible person, it is their own perceptions of the situation. I don't do family for many reasons that are mine. It sounds like you have tried to do the right thing by apologizing and moving forward .. for whatever reason these folks don't want to hear it. At that point it isn't about me anymore it's about their stuff, their perceptions and maybe some false truths that they have heard or whatever .. for whatever reason it's better to let go than be dragged through some of their stuff. It is sad. Don't get me wrong about that, I don't believe I can "fix" anything by myself in terms of relationships there has to be a two way street. I found hanging on to things that I romanticized was way more damaging for everyone involved, I have come to my own peace with that of it is what it is. I can't change the past, I can only move forward into the future. I refuse to allow things of this nature to define me as a whole person. I certainly work on certain aspects of myself .. I'm not going to feel guilty or invest negativity into stuff that I can't control with family. Maybe at some point when your aunt passes you may find out what was actually going on through your cousins .. I wouldn't invest to much thought process into anything except how you chose to grieve for your Uncle and allow your Aunt the space to do what she needs to do.
Big hugs,
S :)
Lyne said
May 19, 2020
{{{bud}}}. Im sorry not only for the loss of your uncle, but for the loss of the years your relatives cannot meet you in the middle. I wish I didnt understand the pain of a fractured family, but I have one too. My sister and my younger brother dont speak. My younger brother and older brother barely speak. My sister and older brother came to hate our mother. My older brother and I struggle but with program Ive been able to have a relationship with him on my terms and my time table. Its not warm and fuzzy but its better than the Cold War. And my son and dtr in law havent spoken to my spouse (A) in over 3 years. I live half time with my spouse and now half time near them so I can have a relationship. Its insanity and crazy making and I have been in the middle of all the relationships. With the help of my sponsor (RIP) I was able to stop trying to force solutions and make nice for everyone. I can only take care of me now and do what I think is the best plan for myself. My A hates that we live half time apart. I understand but Im not giving up my son and his family due to the alcoholic behavior that drove them apart.
You have my heartfelt sympathy. I like your plan to have a ceremony/closure in your own way. Lyne
PosiesandPuppies said
May 19, 2020
((((bud))))
I am not going to pretend that I know what you are feeling, b/c I don't. I have never experienced this in my family or extended family. But I do want to commend you on trying to breach the divide... it really is "their stuff" that they can't formulate their own opinions on how the situation is right now... to accept you as you are, moving forward... their loss.
I think having your own personal ceremony to honor your uncle will bring you some peace.
& hugs
Maresie888 said
May 19, 2020
My family of origin remains enmeshed. My younger sister is a high functioning alcoholic and outwardly succesful (she runs a business). I had some idea that her life might be better until I recently went to stay with the high functioning alcoholic and saw how good he was at hiding Some people have a knack of #looking good#.
Enmeshment is typical in alcoholic families and can create what seens to be a unified front rather than a dysfunctional one. I have had my own share of enmeshment. When I was a with the qualifier there was very little separation between us. What he did affected my entire being. I never did get to the point of not allowing him to ruin my Christmas holidays. Why would I permit that?
Death brings a finality to the cherished notion that enmeshment can change
I have found that the death of someone who was once close to me can allow me some room outside of the scapegoated role I generally get assigned. Death. in some instances, also gave me permission to give up some of the resentments I have nursed for a long time. Those cherished resentments
I believe I have already shared that my younger sister maintains a notion that our childhood was a happy one. She was brutally harassed and hounded for being #fat# by my father, regularly beaten with sticks and branches, ostracized at school (because she had no social skills) and generally severely depressed. For some reason my sister has always maintained the notion that some of these issues were my fault and I could have helped her through that horrendous experience. There is one year in age between us.
Some people do indeed see their childhood as a happy one when underneath it there are pernicious signs that go along with complete enmeshment and absolutely no individuation in family members. There is nothing really healthy about that.
2HP said
May 19, 2020
I am sorry for your many losses.
If it helps, I hope you will remember we are spiritual beings. When my loved ones passed, communication was so much easier than when they were physically here.
Keep in mind how all of us (here or there) we all long for the same things - more understanding, more forgiveness, courage, strength, peace, harmony and especially love.
so when thoughts of my loved ones come to my mind, I help them to rest in peace. With peace and love emanating from my own heart center... our powerful new way of communicating... completely within my power.
Our expressions of love (Higher Power) brings healing, for them and us.
take good care (((peace)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Tuesday 19th of May 2020 10:00:34 AM
Iamhere said
May 19, 2020
(((Bud))) - so sorry for the pain you are experiencing. Your post where you got news of a passing via text reminds me of a voicemail I got many years ago while at work. My father had shared that my aunt had died, and it literally just stopped me in my tracks. I was not in recovery, but my own response to that helped me learn to 'do better'. I will NOT ever announce bad news in a voicemail or a text - just deserves 'better' so I think.
As much as I wish it were different, there are divides in my family that I have no idea why or how or when or who and I actually did step work on 'it'. I did this with my sponsor simply because as much as I tried to let it go, it just kept coming back up in my mind, in my soul even. For me, there is just something healing and formal about black/white writing/processing. Of course, I ended up accepting that I may leave this earth not knowing or understanding or being part of the solution, and that's where I practice acceptance today. I just truly try to keep trusting my journey, my HP and my program.
I still have those moments where I wish it were different and some wonder on if there's any action I can take. I am a big believer in, 'When in doubt, don't' and live by that religiously only because when I've not, it's backfired, repeatedly. I have chosen to always take the high road and/or no action in the dynamics of my dysfunctional family just because it works out better.
One of the many gifts that recovery has given to me is the choice on how I define family...it's changed and I have friends that I am closer to than family. It's not what I expected growing up yet it's how things have unfolded. My oldest who may/may not be sober has chosen to stop talking to me (as of February) and is keeping my grandchildren from me too. This results from me trying to share my feelings - no advice, no blame/shame, just my feelings about a topic that he asked about. It makes me sad yet I know deep down that my HP doesn't want me to keep going to the HW store for bread, so I just keep my distance and pray about it and for them.
Love and light my friend - I'm so sorry for your loss and how final it feels. My hope for you is that you just breathe and be kind to you today! (((Hugs)))
bud said
May 19, 2020
Thank you SerenityRUS - I appreciate as I turn inwards to examine my expectations that seem so reasonable to me. His obituary was fiercely robust in character. It feels that I may have been the only person with whom he chose not to like. perception. lack of clarity. and my HP. perhaps, more will be revealed wise words to not invest in thought with the expectiopon of how I chose to grieve. So much comfort in being able to say this isnt about me. Many thanks!
Thank you Lyne - Yes, I struggle with the loss of years and appreciate you recognize this along with the immediate loss. I appreciate your sharing and knowing Im not alone. There are moments I ask myself why I am deficient/ not good enough and how can I do better / be better/ be accepted/ be loved. This is a good reminder of how damaging it can be to look at myself and the world through someone elses eyes/ perceptions. Many thanks!
Thank you PnP - you are blessed for a loving, compassionate family. Im very grateful that you see this as their stuff. Intellectually, I know this, emotionally Im catching up. I guess I have already been moving forward. Thank you for stating this is their loss. Your support is greatly appreciated many thanks!
Maresie888 said
May 19, 2020
Obituaries are always up there in euphenisms. No one lived through a lifetime and did not encounter people they did not like.
I know there are certain people who do not like me among them some family members. At one time I was pretty preoccupied with that. Now I try to focus on what is next on the list
When my mother died a lot of family issues came up including issues with her will. My mother lived a life of chaos abd confusion. That continued after her death. I did not see it like that at the time.
Grief support grouos are a big helo in negotiating ambivalence. I am glad you are in touch with your feelings.
SerenityRUS said
May 19, 2020
Maresie, I did want to say your statement about obituaries reminds me of how people view facebook .. lots of things can look very pretty in a snapshot however the reality of that snapshot is not always what is projected from the camera. It's important to remember an obituary can say a lot of things about how someone wanted to live or was perceived to live .. that doesn't make it truth. Hugs.
bud said
May 19, 2020
Thank you Maresie - Wow - I love how you posed all of thisrereading several times. I can relate to the family abuse and blame and Im so sorry youve experienced this too. I do forgive and hand resentments to my HP when they resurface. Thank you for the supporting details its going a long way for my path to peace.
Thank you 2HP - Id go as far to say that the more heart and effort, the greater their anger. I love how you state communication becomes easier I chose to believe that after people pass, they become more open to different perspectives and truths. I also love the idea that I can, in some small way, contribute towards their peace as well as my own. Im grateful for the program, my HP, and those in my life that are able to show kindness and caring.
Thank you IamHere - voicemail, texts, post-its for important news being treated like a reminder to run a mundane errand. Step work is very helpful. I tried to own my stuff and make amends several times. Im grateful that I have solace that I did all I could. I define my family as my daughter and I. I have a few amazing friends and of course my HP. Im so sorry to hear youre restricted from your grandchildren. I hear your pain. My family is disinterested in my sharing of feelings and any attempt I have made for connection elicits rage. By now, if they cant get angrier, they might have to take a look and own their own words and actions. I thank you for the reminder that I can pray about it and for them. This is a softer support and good approach.
bud said
May 19, 2020
Oh my and yes! Obituraies, Facebook, etc tend to morph into something that doesn't necessarily reflect reality. That idealistic "front" that masks some of the darker underpinnings. I appreciate you both mentioning this.
I've given this thought and my focus is myself, my HP, and my daughter. I'm ready to lean on my HP more and that is a beautiful thing. I'm ready to let go a little more and this is freeing.
Thank you so much dear MIP family! Hugs!
mamalioness said
May 19, 2020
Hey Bud, join the club. I am the only one of my relatives in recovery and they think that I am the lowlife, traitor because I came forward about my abuse...Cousins think I am a "less then" because while THEIR parents were supporting/helping them, MY sire was abusing/killing me....so yea, I didn't "do as well" as those guys.....I cut them out of my life and am happier for it...I have my family of choice...I have gone where the love is....no time for the ones who don't want me...but yea, it hurt at first, but I grieved it out, let go, detached and now I say "God bless" as i walk away to my own life that I am making now....sorry this happened to you..you deserved so much better than that......
bud said
May 20, 2020
Thank you Mamalioness! Yeppers... I'm in the club! I asked myself why I reverted to traumatizing myself rather than keep walking away. I had some hope lingering in a dark corner... and it's ok. The part (my part) that wasn't ok was beating myself up. I took today to examine this more closely. I realized that somehow I still hold the belief that what other people think is more important than what I think... and I know... what other's think is none of my business. As this bubbles up, I will also replace it with "I deserve abundance."
Thank you for your support!
Iamhere said
May 20, 2020
I have absolutely no use for FB...for folks I want to engage with, we share via private messaging on the App. Beyond that, I find it to be a fantasy land place where folks are trying to 'prove their happy'. I would much rather celebrate my joy with a few real friends/family than chase likes/approval from others.
There is no shame in wanting others to accept us and love us, or even like us. I do think you hit the nail on the head bud - when what others think of us takes a higher position than what we think of us, we've got some work to do. I have to remind myself each morning that I am worthy and I am enough, just as I am. (((Hugs)))
Hi dear Family,
This morning I received a text message from my cousin that my uncle passed. He was my Dad's brother. I ran outside to the mailbox to retrieve my uncle's birthday card before the mailman picked it up. His birthday is in a few days. I grew up on the same block with my cousins and we were over each other's houses several times a week. Sadly, those fond memories didn't carry through my adult years when I was in over my head with the ramifications of the disease. I called my uncle for emotional support... and, it was not a good move... not only was he unsupportive, but he was nasty.
The nastiness progressed as my aunt and uncle became angrier and angrier with me.
Other than missing family dinners, I don't know my crime. Years ago, I went to make amends with my aunt, she assured me that she did not understand, did not want to understand, and did not forgive me. She said she did not want a relationship with me.
I prayed and held some small semblance for hope. With my uncle's passing, so did hope. My cousins are now carrying the torch and want nothing to do with me. In the text, my cousin said he didn't want me to find out by reading my uncle's obituary. I am thankful for the text. I wish there could be more.
I know I can pray. And I do. In my virtual face to face meeting, the topic was surrender. It's becoming clear to me that I had not... a piece of me resisted and stills resists the great divide between me and my relatives.
Life feels so short. I am wired to want close family and friends. I am blessed with my HP, daughter, some amazing friends, and MIP/ Alanon. I'm realizing I need to strengthen my relationship with my HP.
Thoughts on support would be greatly appreciated and thank you.
I took a few moments to imagine what it would be like to reconnect and it would be similar - reconnecting with judgmental & controlling people who will only see me as something much less that who I am. I had been judged for not going to a "good enough" school, not getting "good enough" schooling, not marrying a man within my religion, not calling and contacting them on a weekly basis, etc. One of my uncle's mottos was "he who cares the least, wins"
When I stop romanticizing the situation, it is much easier to love them from afar.
I plan to have my own ceremony to say good bye to my Dad's brother. It will be from a place of love and forgiveness. I hope he is in a place where he is at peace. Bonus if there is clarity on truths... but, I know I must turn to my HP for my own serenity and truth. Many thanks!
Thank you Maresie - I've been in Alanon for a long time and am constantly grateful that others understand similar threads of underlying themes. I'm grateful for not feeling so alone. Enmeshment - a term I haven't thought of in a while, resonates. I'm sure I don't know many reasons for the enmeshment or the nature of it... I saw things from a child's perspective growing up... and as an adult, just baffled. The disease is like spreading poison... and this is the aftermath. I'll send flowers and cards, as appropriate. I'm grateful for your pointing out an indication of concern. Many thanks!
Family is super hard for many people, I want the Norman Rockwell family view and that is never going to happen for me because I have an expectation that is so big that it's really not reasonable. It's really not fair to the family that I have either. I guess my dad is right in some ways .. I complicate relationships .. lol. Personally I think you need some kind of accountability in a relationship however that's just me .. LOL.
One thing that I discovered much to my dismay through alanon and other counseling is that perception is a powerful thing. Because I am not perfect, I realize that for some people I am that toxic person in their life, it's not because I'm a horrible person, it is their own perceptions of the situation. I don't do family for many reasons that are mine. It sounds like you have tried to do the right thing by apologizing and moving forward .. for whatever reason these folks don't want to hear it. At that point it isn't about me anymore it's about their stuff, their perceptions and maybe some false truths that they have heard or whatever .. for whatever reason it's better to let go than be dragged through some of their stuff. It is sad. Don't get me wrong about that, I don't believe I can "fix" anything by myself in terms of relationships there has to be a two way street. I found hanging on to things that I romanticized was way more damaging for everyone involved, I have come to my own peace with that of it is what it is. I can't change the past, I can only move forward into the future. I refuse to allow things of this nature to define me as a whole person. I certainly work on certain aspects of myself .. I'm not going to feel guilty or invest negativity into stuff that I can't control with family. Maybe at some point when your aunt passes you may find out what was actually going on through your cousins .. I wouldn't invest to much thought process into anything except how you chose to grieve for your Uncle and allow your Aunt the space to do what she needs to do.
Big hugs,
S :)
You have my heartfelt sympathy. I like your plan to have a ceremony/closure in your own way. Lyne
((((bud))))
I am not going to pretend that I know what you are feeling, b/c I don't. I have never experienced this in my family or extended family. But I do want to commend you on trying to breach the divide... it really is "their stuff" that they can't formulate their own opinions on how the situation is right now... to accept you as you are, moving forward... their loss.
I think having your own personal ceremony to honor your uncle will bring you some peace.
I am sorry for your many losses.
If it helps, I hope you will remember we are spiritual beings. When my loved ones passed, communication was so much easier than when they were physically here.
Keep in mind how all of us (here or there) we all long for the same things - more understanding, more forgiveness, courage, strength, peace, harmony and especially love.
so when thoughts of my loved ones come to my mind, I help them to rest in peace. With peace and love emanating from my own heart center... our powerful new way of communicating... completely within my power.
Our expressions of love (Higher Power) brings healing, for them and us.
take good care (((peace)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Tuesday 19th of May 2020 10:00:34 AM
As much as I wish it were different, there are divides in my family that I have no idea why or how or when or who and I actually did step work on 'it'. I did this with my sponsor simply because as much as I tried to let it go, it just kept coming back up in my mind, in my soul even. For me, there is just something healing and formal about black/white writing/processing. Of course, I ended up accepting that I may leave this earth not knowing or understanding or being part of the solution, and that's where I practice acceptance today. I just truly try to keep trusting my journey, my HP and my program.
I still have those moments where I wish it were different and some wonder on if there's any action I can take. I am a big believer in, 'When in doubt, don't' and live by that religiously only because when I've not, it's backfired, repeatedly. I have chosen to always take the high road and/or no action in the dynamics of my dysfunctional family just because it works out better.
One of the many gifts that recovery has given to me is the choice on how I define family...it's changed and I have friends that I am closer to than family. It's not what I expected growing up yet it's how things have unfolded. My oldest who may/may not be sober has chosen to stop talking to me (as of February) and is keeping my grandchildren from me too. This results from me trying to share my feelings - no advice, no blame/shame, just my feelings about a topic that he asked about. It makes me sad yet I know deep down that my HP doesn't want me to keep going to the HW store for bread, so I just keep my distance and pray about it and for them.
Love and light my friend - I'm so sorry for your loss and how final it feels. My hope for you is that you just breathe and be kind to you today! (((Hugs)))
Thank you Lyne - Yes, I struggle with the loss of years and appreciate you recognize this along with the immediate loss. I appreciate your sharing and knowing Im not alone. There are moments I ask myself why I am deficient/ not good enough and how can I do better / be better/ be accepted/ be loved. This is a good reminder of how damaging it can be to look at myself and the world through someone elses eyes/ perceptions. Many thanks!
Thank you PnP - you are blessed for a loving, compassionate family. Im very grateful that you see this as their stuff. Intellectually, I know this, emotionally Im catching up. I guess I have already been moving forward. Thank you for stating this is their loss. Your support is greatly appreciated many thanks!
Thank you 2HP - Id go as far to say that the more heart and effort, the greater their anger. I love how you state communication becomes easier I chose to believe that after people pass, they become more open to different perspectives and truths. I also love the idea that I can, in some small way, contribute towards their peace as well as my own. Im grateful for the program, my HP, and those in my life that are able to show kindness and caring.
Thank you IamHere - voicemail, texts, post-its for important news being treated like a reminder to run a mundane errand. Step work is very helpful. I tried to own my stuff and make amends several times. Im grateful that I have solace that I did all I could. I define my family as my daughter and I. I have a few amazing friends and of course my HP. Im so sorry to hear youre restricted from your grandchildren. I hear your pain. My family is disinterested in my sharing of feelings and any attempt I have made for connection elicits rage. By now, if they cant get angrier, they might have to take a look and own their own words and actions. I thank you for the reminder that I can pray about it and for them. This is a softer support and good approach.
I've given this thought and my focus is myself, my HP, and my daughter. I'm ready to lean on my HP more and that is a beautiful thing. I'm ready to let go a little more and this is freeing.
Thank you so much dear MIP family! Hugs!
Thank you for your support!
There is no shame in wanting others to accept us and love us, or even like us. I do think you hit the nail on the head bud - when what others think of us takes a higher position than what we think of us, we've got some work to do. I have to remind myself each morning that I am worthy and I am enough, just as I am. (((Hugs)))