My Ex just texted me that he "Just wanted me to know how angry he was for me leaving him. I thought it was for better or worse."
This after he has ghosted me since February. Not that I minded, as we are divorced and I was trying to move on, but trying to be kind and respectful of him. Also, he was paying for our son's health insurance through his work. I found out during Feb. that he was let go in January and was ghosting his family as well. No support payments, no word to let me know our son needed new health insurance - despite the pandemic!!
I haven't shared before, b/c I shared with my sponsor, and I vowed to keep it all about me here. But about a week ago, I get a text "This is Ex's new number," from a nephew in-law's phone. I said "Thank you, good to know he's OK during the pandemic." Then later that day, "Hey, that was me." I told my Ex, "OK, glad to see the Coronavirus didn't get you." Later he texted me that he did have it, and how terrible it was, how lonely he was etc. I said I am sorry to hear that. The next day he texted me again, and I decided that I was doing so well not hearing from him those 2 1/2 months, that I didn't want to engage. So I told him "I was dealing with some resentments, so I was going to not text back until I could get a handle on them." He said OK, I understand.
Well, I guess he doesn't. I know I should ignore. I will ignore the text. But I am angry at what he said.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Maresie888 said
May 17, 2020
This is a very hard time for everyone. Look.what we have to go through to get to.a grocery store. That on its own is overwhelming and a really upsetting problem every time you go out the door.
Then having to deal with someone who is completely self absorbed it is a tippimg point.
My meditation teacher says in these #strange# times we have to watch our bandwidth. Certain people are big triggers for us. For me being around someone who is incredibly self absorbed is very triggering. My parents had to be pretty indifferent to my needs. They had no empathy whatsoever.
Dealing with boundaries is a hard one. There are no hard and fast rules on when, what and how to specific time especially with someone we have to deal with. Sometimes they come easily sometimes they do not. Maybe it us to manuver those treacherous waters sometimes gently with ourselves. No one ever got better by hating themselves.
mamalioness said
May 17, 2020
Maresie. Thank you for your very much needed post here for me to read. I am down on myself today because I have yet another injury due to not being able to pay attention and be mindful. But you are right it does not serve any purpose to beat me up and these are very crazy and uncertain times
PnP. Bless your heart! Its got to be a pain in the neck to be texted and contacted by somebody you really dont want anything to do and for him to not tell you about the insurance just goes to show how right you were to get rid of this toxic individual who seemingly is not going to change. I am sorry you are having a hard time and I relate with you very much here and support you 100%. Youve come so far and you will come farther and farther yet. I live with somebody that is very toxic and I am learning detachment and do not engage and that I have a right to sit normal and fair boundaries that apply to me as well and I am standing to them come hell or Highwater. I piled my heavy in tables and coffee table on the futon to make sure nobody sits on it that is not wanted, I also put a sign over it with a warning that the futon was not for very large people
Also our rental contract states that if she breaks something of mine she has to replace it. So I think if I keep a distance without being mean to her, those next two weeks well 2 1/2 weeks will go OK. I have many many things to prove that she must go if she tries to fight this. Elder abuse and passive aggressive behavior and also she refuses to wear The masks that I made her when we go out shopping I always use my mask. She is putting me at risk when she goes out running around without her mask and that alone is putting me at risk as I do still have asthma even though I can control it I still have asthma and so I am going to think positive and believe that she will leave graciously and in peace but if she does not, I think I have enough evidence and documentation to have her removed
I know the church will not help her find any more homes as she has burned her bridges As far as our pastor goes because he knows how hard I tried to work with this person who is just not willing to change and I am not a people fixer-upper
tiredtonite said
May 17, 2020
Hi Pnp,
"My serenity is proportionate to my acceptance." This can be a hard one to work for me at times. I have a sibling who is active. Communication is always on his terms. Past experience has shown that he's manipulative and retaliatory if I don't respond or not in the manner he wants me to respond. His go to is instant gratification, getting his emotional needs met either by dumping on me or bragging to me knowing I am sitting with issues most people are at this time. I'm sure I don't need to point out the obvious but I will. He's acting self centered and selfish. "It's all about me." If I want emotional support from him in particular because of loving qualities and our connection as family, it's luck of the draw. I am taking a risk by engaging with him knowing it's 50/50 he will show up as supportive of me. It hurts my heart sometimes because I know and miss the person under the disease of alcoholism. I also realize that this could in fact be an illusion I hold onto and his disease may be progressing. So at this point in my response it's been a long written journey to the point I cared to initially make. Two people looking to the other for something they either will not or cannot give. I promised my mother I would do what I can to continue a relationship with him when she was gone. I've done that but not at my own expense. Right now I feel a bit of grief that I can't turn to him for support and comfort during this time. Logically, I get it but the little sister in me still has trouble accepting it. Because of the program, I can show her to the spot inside my spiritual home where she can wait for her higher power to come and offer the unconditional love she longs for. That's always there for me when i let go and let god. My expectations of others often leave me feeling lonely and unheard. No doubt those in my life feel the same where I'm concerned. None of can really understand the motivations and actions of other people. If I feel affected particularly by someone's words, if they sting for instance; this is clear indication of something that needs to be worked out in me. Often for me there's an imbalance in my attachment to that person, an emotional or physical attachment (sometimes both) wherein I give my power away to them and am no longer a separate person who knows the truth of who I am or trust my motivations. I don't have to take the bait and engage. I can use it as an opportunity to get over a hurdle and make recovery progress. When met with unkind words, insinuations again I may not feel anger, hurt, resentment, indignation with such intensity that my serenity is once again given away. I have the power to keep what I've got, maintain my serenity I don't have to show up for every fight I'm invited to. But if I'm still throwing punches in the air, something is begging to be worked out in me with the help of hp. Keep taking care of yourself. We can say a prayer for others that with the help of their hp whatever needs to be worked out in them will be and refocus on our own well-being. We can take a breath and choose to restart our day at any time and regain our serenity. ((hugs))) TT
PosiesandPuppies said
May 17, 2020
Thank you all for your shares.
My sponsor pretty much said what you did, TT... that his whole re-entry into my life is self-centered.
We had already worked on my expectations back in early March, so I thought I had chalked his behavior up to "things addicts do," but she mentioned, "1. No apology for missing alimony payments or even notifying you that he would 2. Did not notify kid of no insurance as soon as he lost his job in Jan & 3. No apology for leaving kid vulnerable during a pandemic. It was all about him, how sick he's been, how lonely, and when you inserted a boundary for yourself (not engaging in discussion), he is rage-texting and trying to lay down the guilt - a button he knows works with me. Those are marks of someone deep in their addiction... not working in recovery. Try and understand it for what it was - an addict lashing out." And she is correct... it didn't really make me feel any better, though.
After talking with her, I then checked to see if I had any responses here. Since there weren't any then, I read some other posts, and re-read what I wrote for the daily yesterday. It was about forgiveness. How ironic. I think that the reason I am so hurt about his texts, is because not only do they scare me (I mean we will be divorced 2 years in Aug), but also all my hard work with forgiveness seems to be wasted. Not only has it not made moving forward easier, but I kind of feel like I have been acting "As IF." Feelings have surfaced that make me feel that perhaps I am not ready to forgive. And that makes me angry at myself. I guess I am only human.
So yeah, I have some work to do on myself. But just for today, like TT said, I don't have to show up to every fight I am invited to.
Continued ESH is certainly welcomed! &
JerryF said
May 17, 2020
TT and PnP I know it is okay with you both to look over your shoulders and reaffirm my own recovery thru your esh. PnP forgiveness is a guarantee resentment eliminator and so very often automatic and fast. My former sponsor taught me "the opposites" that when a certain emotion was causing me pain and problems, if I practiced the opposite of that emotion I would get the opposite condition. The opposite of resentment is forgiveness. I wanted the opposite condition so bad I just without condition acted as if and then made it a part of my daily life. I rarely suffer from resentment now and I like the power the practice has over me.
TT The ending of your response to PnP starting with "we can say a prayer for others..." is habit for me..."A compulsion of the mind and practice of the spirit". So much a program in itself. Thanks also.
My hearing aids went on the blink yesterday and gives me just 25 - 30% performance now. Grateful you both type loud. LOL (((((hugs)))))
PosiesandPuppies said
May 17, 2020
Wonderful share Jerry.
And you know, circling back around to what TT said about saying that prayer for others... it has helped me.
That can be my "doing opposite" today. I can relieve my resentment by saying a prayer that my Ex can have his HP give him peace and acceptance of what is today.
That can be my step with Forgiveness.
With gratitude, &
-- Edited by PosiesandPuppies on Sunday 17th of May 2020 12:34:35 PM
JerryF said
May 17, 2020
Practice, Practice, Practice. (((hugs)))
a4l said
May 17, 2020
Sounds like a lovely plan PnP. Time takes time springs to mind. You've moved on. Others take a long time to let go. Stay safe.
Bo said
May 17, 2020
Pap, thank you for sharing your feelings and perspective. I went through similar things, not just with my ex-wife, but with an ex-gf who I was in a long-term relationship with. Sometimes, out of nowhere, I would receive text messages that -- accused me of various things, offenses, etc. The texts were often stated as fact, but could not be further from the truth and reality...but, what bothered me tremendously was it was their truth. They so believed it and it was fact, yes, in their mind. Their distorted view and recollection of reality was so offensive to me. It bothered me a lot, threw me off, caused me to be off-balanced, off-kiltered, etc.
However, all of that was before recovery. When I was doing the work, and in the process of recovery, living a life of recovery, etc. -- I learned a great deal...ABOUT MYSELF. I had to look at me, my role, what impact these text messages were having on me. Now, I didn't analyze or try and figure out why they were sending me the text messages, I didn't try and analyze them, etc. Trying to figure out the alcoholic or unhealthy/dysfunctional person is an exercise in futility. In my experience, the more I tried to do that -- two things happened -- one, the more I did that the more I drove myself crazy; and two, the more I did that, the less time and effort I had available to focus on me and my recovery, and what I needed to do for me!
You can't apply logic to an illogical person and disease. You can't be rational in dealing with an irrational person and disease. I also learned the the person, the text messages, and replying, the engaging, was my drug! Wait, what? I was past the relationship and the person. It couldn't be my drug! But it was. If it weren't, then it wouldn't have anywhere near the impact it did on me. If it weren't, it wouldn't have any impact at all. I'd be able to view it for exactly what it was. But, I couldn't. That was before recovery.
I had to get off the drug. Period. I had to get better and get healthy, so that I couldn't reply, or if a reply was absolutely necessary, I would reply with a very limited scope and nothing else. Clear, concise, closed-ended, and that's it!
I learned to say "Thank you" AND NOTHING ELSE. Even if I made it closed-ended, and DID NOT invite a reply, I would still get one. OK, but that didn't mean I had to reply! I got a text from the ex during this pandemic, and I replied "Thank you" and that was it. It didn't matter that it wasn't one hundred percent applicable, but that's OK. When I got another unsolicited reply, I simply said "All the best" or "Good that all is well" and that's it. I can always say "I am sorry you feel that way" or "I am not going to engage and get into a back and forth with you" -- and be clear. Say what I mean, mean what I say, and don't say it mean. However, all of us realize that unless we say and do exactly what the alcoholic wants...we are always going to be wrong, we are always going to get some message of accusation, name-calling, conclusion drawing fault, blame, etc. That's OK...that's part of THEIR DISEASE. Our disease is the stinking thinking. Caring what they thing of us. Outward thinking in.
Think about sharing "I was dealing with some resentments, so I was going to not text back until I could get a handle on them." -- will probably be read as let's talk about this at some other time, let's dance at another time, etc. If that's what you want, OK. For me, no, that's not what I wanted. I wanted it done. I wanted off the drug! And in order to be off the drug, I wasn't going to communicate with, be friends with, hang out with, etc., the drug dealer!!! The drug dealer will always give you a free taste, to keep you engaged, to keep you in the dance!
Why do we get angry at what they say? Well, in my experience, once we look at ourselves, no paralysis by analysis, we can see our role, our contribution as to WHY w feel what we feel. It could be a people-pleasing thing, it could be co-dependency, it could be wanting to be loved, liked, etc., it could be validation or affirmation. At the same time, what is a very common trigger is "feeling wronged" by untruths, false accusations and convictions, etc. I was angry because the other person truly believed what they were saying -- about them being innocent and me being guilty -- being stated as fact. They had such a distorted, completely false recollection of history, what really happened, facts, etc. -- and they are simply lying to me, making me out to be the bad guy, and saying I did this, I did that, and so on and so on. A few more minutes and they would have be being the one who killed JFK and they would be stating that as matter of factly as today is Sunday! LOL.
When I got healthy, I was able to live in a space where no matter what the other person said, I was OK with it. I took it for nothing, and simply knew and understood where and from who it came from. Period. It didn't live rent-free in my head. It didn't impact me. Why do I care what an unhealthy, alcoholic, etc., thinks of me. I feel sorry for them. I have compassion for them. Their thinking, thought process, recollection, perspective, and so much more is completely distorted and corrupted! I felt sorry for them. I had compassion for them. I understood that they were not healthy and they were simply "doing what they do" -- and while I didn't focus on it, I understood all the reasons why!
For me, I had to get off the drug...so that I could get healthy. Then, AFTER I got better, healthy...when the drug was presented to me...I was able to ignore the invitation to try some...even just a taste! LOL.
Maresie888 said
May 17, 2020
When I was first in recovery about my childhood I had this magical idea that at some point it woud get easier. I held onto that to justfy my considerable investment in my recovery. I had a lot of disdain for those who said it was constant work
The truth is I am often revisiting those significant reationships in my life. I do not have much of a concept anymore of there is more work to do or I did not work hard enough
Two years after a divorce is not a very time. I am many years removed from the reationship with my qualifer. I still have thoughts and issues about that reationship.
This pandemic has certany brought up issues for me about isolation loss and being alone. I have a constant sense of being alone which tends to make me vunerable.
Having a therapist can be hugely helpful to us. I beleve sometimes we take on expectations that are really large. Knowing when to slow down and take a #pause# is not something that is famiiar to us. I know it is not famiiar to me. I am having to learn how and it is valuable skill
There is no #right# way to grieve the loss of a marrage. There is your way and that way could go a lot gentler on yourself .
Iamhere said
May 17, 2020
(((PnP))) - so, so sorry! It is moments like 'this' that the pause really, really helps me. When I am able to Pause, Pray and then Proceed, I tend to do differently, feel differently and heal differently (faster). You are doing it - working recovery - and it shows. You spoke with your sponsor and reasoned things out. You posted here for more ESH and in the meanwhile, you've responded instead of reacted. Growth, growth and more growth which comes from practice, practice and more practice.
My experience in recovery is when I am faced with baggage from the past, I have choices always. My standard boundaries today suggest I will go out of my way to avoid unnecessary chaos/drama from anyone, loved or passive and I just don't do crazy/controlling any more. There was a time in my recovery where I used the block feature on my phone to enforce that boundary. I no longer have to. I can get a 'crazy-making blame/shame throwing text' from a family member or other and not take it personally. It's taken me a ton of practice/time to get here - I'm the program person that carried a Q-TIP in my pocket for a few YEARS to remind myself of this.
I've always, always been told to pray for another when I resent them or feel hurt/betrayed by them. Surprisingly enough, it does work to bring me peace and clarity. My old MO was to sit and worry about their words/actions, their perceptions, their truth, how different they saw things, etc. I just don't do that anymore as it's not healthy for me.
I have done all that's suggested and all that I know to clean up my side of the street. I've made my amends and continue with my living amends. I do my life much differently today and work hard to NOT judge others, cause pain or react - esp. when this disease is involved. I'm far from perfect but have made great progress! What I've discovered with my parental emergency is there will always be some people that no matter what you do, how you change/grow, they will see you as they choose to and/or how they remember you! I have found through this recent parental emergency that my oldest brother has chosen to not forgive me nor accept amends from past mistakes/pain I caused more than 35 years ago.
While hearing this caught me off-guard, my response was simple - his perceptions of me are none of my business and I don't understand why 'this' is coming up now when we're in the middle of a pandemic and our aging parents are extremely ill. Trust me when I say that a part of me, as the youngest and only girl, really, really wanted to JADE all across this darn country, yet my recovery kicked in, I stayed as present as possible and opted out of the drama/chaos of another. I believe deep down that no good can come from a confrontation, and there's no point in taking any other action - I have changed and do differently today, but others often do not.
I absolutely love that I learned in recovery that most times, the best response to an invitation to chaos/drama is no response at all. These kinds of situations have certainly given me opportunities to change up my boundaries and in some cases, redefine what relationship I want (if at all) with the other party. The healthier I get in my program, the easier it is to let go of unhealthy people, places and things. I hold on always to my believe that my HP really truly wants me happy, joyous and free and if that means setting some folks aside, so be it.
YOLO - You Only Live Once girl - choose joy, always and every time! We no longer have to accept the burden of other's thoughts, feelings or words. We can literally let them go and move forward with our life and our day. I never discount or judge another's perceptions, simply because that takes the focus from me. Instead, I focus on what our Serenity Prayer says and stay inside my own hula-hoop. You done good and you got this! (((Hugs)))
Temple said
May 17, 2020
Oh Posies,
That really is sucky, isn't it?
There were a lot of other things in those vows. You could ask him when the Love, Honor and Cherish part comes into play. Grins.
I'm sorry you got your buttons pushed. And I think you've already worked through a lot of it. Just wanted to say I feel your pain, and aren't you glad you don't have to respond at the same level! You haven't done anything wrong. I remember hearing Dr. Phil says, some years ago: "Alcoholism is a deal breaker."
He's just trying to make himself feel better by making you feel worse, if he can. Pathetic, isn't it? So you pray for him. I like that.
Keep on taking care of you. I like what Bo said.
Thanks for sharing. You are doing well.
Hugs,
Temple
tiredtonite said
May 17, 2020
((pnp))) glad something in my response helped you. It was a good idea after reaching out to your sponsor to review your post on forgiveness and other posts here. Hp gave you direction :) I hope you had a good rest of the day. TT
-- Edited by tiredtonite on Sunday 17th of May 2020 08:52:50 PM
mamalioness said
May 17, 2020
(((((((PnP))))))))))
Its OK if you cannot forgive right now or that he has committed a new offense for which you cannot forgive right now. It has happened to me as well where people do things willfully and destructively its difficult to forgive in fact I dont even use that word I just keep working on me and my program and I just after feeling all the feelings and everything, I arrive at the place where I can let go of the resentment and just wrap them up in a big hefty trash bag and throw them in the trash and they are out of my life and my mind and my heart. Just keep giving it over to my higher power
Some stuff is just not forgivable or its long time in coming and the word forgive really what does it mean it means cutting them loose from our emotions and minds and that takes time after working through all the feelings and emotions and addressing the anger and expressing it and discharging it and also realizing that some people are just toxic and theres nothing you can do but just Kaslow my way but first you have to be with your feelings I know I do
And it could very well be that you still have old unfinished emotions to deal with I mean he screwed you over a lot and its going to take time. Be easy on yourself be loving to yourself be gentle with yourself I think you are doing great and its OK to be pissed off for a while and not able to forgive someone who is just deliberately toxic or they are just not working their program because they dont want to be any better. You take care and Im sending you a big hug and I hope this post made sense Im using my phone microphone because I injured my finger and it just hurts too much To use the keyboard
iris52 said
May 18, 2020
Years ago when I was on this board alot I remember something another poster said. I am paraphrasing because I do not remember word for word.She said that alcoholics are emotional vampires.They get some kind of 'fix' from getting us upset.The more upset we get,the more energy they draw from it.In my experience it seems that after he gets me all riled up, he feels better, calms down and watches tv or something.Then I look like the crazy one and the argument appears to be all my fault..
Anyone ever hear of this?
Iris
mamalioness said
May 18, 2020
Iris I dont know if it was a post of mine or not but I am one who calls dysfunctional people emotional and psychic vampires. That is one of my favorite sayings because they do. They just suck you dry. They suck the life out of you. The only way to get around that is detachment and just putting up my emotional hedges with the program and standing to my boundaries and just not engaging in sick behavior or conversations with them. I just set my boundaries and stand them and thats it. I dont engage Any more with someone who is clearly dysfunctional and not in a program or if in the program not working a healthy program. I want my life simple and I work to keep it simple and easy does it and part of that is just staying in my lane and putting my hedges up as needed
tiredtonite said
May 18, 2020
Thank you, ((Jerry)) so grateful for your es&h at this board. If you weren't making a joke and do have hearing aids, I hope the issue is resolved. But when thinking of the joke you made about typing loudly (very funny, incidentally), I thought of that funny thing they say in the other program and LOL. Was told they say take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth. We can be grateful that Alanon is a gentle program right? :) TT
JerryF said
May 18, 2020
I heard it and also watch the power of it work. Alcoholism is cunning, powerful and baffling...watch it work and see and feel what it happens to do to everyone it touches. Early program we use to read the definition of alcoholism before our meetings and it mentions, "It affects everyone it comes into contact with. I have and it is stunning. Keep coming back cause that works when we work it. (((hugs)))
TT our program seems to be gentle and loving very clearly however watching it work against this world wide powerful fatal disease impresses me when it is worked as suggested. I have seen so many miracles and always anticipate the ones coming next. Thanks for your ESH. ((((HUGS))))
-- Edited by JerryF on Monday 18th of May 2020 06:10:23 PM
Maresie888 said
May 19, 2020
I am most certainly aware of how oernicious alcoholism is. Twenty years ago I met my now former roommate.
At that time he relished having his own home. He was always arranging for carpet cleaning and luxuriating in his space.
Of course I did not pay attention then to all the red flags that said he was most certainly an alcoholic.
20 years later he has let really necessary repairs go on his house. No room for even the most basic maintenance. His relationship with this one womannwho most certainly supported him is #on hold#. Therefore he is pretty lost in terms of what to do next.
I have my own issues including currently physical health issues. Therefore I am not at liberty anymore to do much else. I certainly had invitations to step in but I chose not to. That for me us recovery. For once my own well being including my physical survival is based on trying to take care of my own needs. Alcoholics seem to have a hard time negotiating that other people have any needs. The roommate most certainly did. The qualifier certainly did.
2HP said
May 19, 2020
Good on you for blaming yourself and the shortcoming in you for being triggered (affected).
When I do good inventory on every resentment that pops up, I will see myself
All of us are selfish, self-seeking, dishonest and fearful when sense of self, the "little me" gets all stirred up and feels threatened.
By taking responsibility and forgiving myself (first things first) instead of division and separating good guys from bad guys (disease of perception) we are now equal, now giving away everything we are wanting, HPs grace flowing in as you tune in.... to pray.... for HIM. (miracles)
THAT is getting it, THAT is what we came for, good work! it was right "here" all along (hand over heart.)
My Ex just texted me that he "Just wanted me to know how angry he was for me leaving him. I thought it was for better or worse."
This after he has ghosted me since February. Not that I minded, as we are divorced and I was trying to move on, but trying to be kind and respectful of him. Also, he was paying for our son's health insurance through his work. I found out during Feb. that he was let go in January and was ghosting his family as well. No support payments, no word to let me know our son needed new health insurance - despite the pandemic!!
I haven't shared before, b/c I shared with my sponsor, and I vowed to keep it all about me here. But about a week ago, I get a text "This is Ex's new number," from a nephew in-law's phone. I said "Thank you, good to know he's OK during the pandemic." Then later that day, "Hey, that was me." I told my Ex, "OK, glad to see the Coronavirus didn't get you." Later he texted me that he did have it, and how terrible it was, how lonely he was etc. I said I am sorry to hear that. The next day he texted me again, and I decided that I was doing so well not hearing from him those 2 1/2 months, that I didn't want to engage. So I told him "I was dealing with some resentments, so I was going to not text back until I could get a handle on them." He said OK, I understand.
Well, I guess he doesn't. I know I should ignore. I will ignore the text. But I am angry at what he said.
Thanks for letting me vent.
PnP. Bless your heart! Its got to be a pain in the neck to be texted and contacted by somebody you really dont want anything to do and for him to not tell you about the insurance just goes to show how right you were to get rid of this toxic individual who seemingly is not going to change. I am sorry you are having a hard time and I relate with you very much here and support you 100%. Youve come so far and you will come farther and farther yet. I live with somebody that is very toxic and I am learning detachment and do not engage and that I have a right to sit normal and fair boundaries that apply to me as well and I am standing to them come hell or Highwater. I piled my heavy in tables and coffee table on the futon to make sure nobody sits on it that is not wanted, I also put a sign over it with a warning that the futon was not for very large people
Also our rental contract states that if she breaks something of mine she has to replace it. So I think if I keep a distance without being mean to her, those next two weeks well 2 1/2 weeks will go OK. I have many many things to prove that she must go if she tries to fight this. Elder abuse and passive aggressive behavior and also she refuses to wear The masks that I made her when we go out shopping I always use my mask. She is putting me at risk when she goes out running around without her mask and that alone is putting me at risk as I do still have asthma even though I can control it I still have asthma and so I am going to think positive and believe that she will leave graciously and in peace but if she does not, I think I have enough evidence and documentation to have her removed
I know the church will not help her find any more homes as she has burned her bridges As far as our pastor goes because he knows how hard I tried to work with this person who is just not willing to change and I am not a people fixer-upper
Thank you all for your shares.
& 
My sponsor pretty much said what you did, TT... that his whole re-entry into my life is self-centered.
We had already worked on my expectations back in early March, so I thought I had chalked his behavior up to "things addicts do," but she mentioned, "1. No apology for missing alimony payments or even notifying you that he would 2. Did not notify kid of no insurance as soon as he lost his job in Jan & 3. No apology for leaving kid vulnerable during a pandemic. It was all about him, how sick he's been, how lonely, and when you inserted a boundary for yourself (not engaging in discussion), he is rage-texting and trying to lay down the guilt - a button he knows works with me. Those are marks of someone deep in their addiction... not working in recovery. Try and understand it for what it was - an addict lashing out." And she is correct... it didn't really make me feel any better, though.
After talking with her, I then checked to see if I had any responses here. Since there weren't any then, I read some other posts, and re-read what I wrote for the daily yesterday. It was about forgiveness. How ironic.
I think that the reason I am so hurt about his texts, is because not only do they scare me (I mean we will be divorced 2 years in Aug), but also all my hard work with forgiveness seems to be wasted. Not only has it not made moving forward easier, but I kind of feel like I have been acting "As IF." Feelings have surfaced that make me feel that perhaps I am not ready to forgive. And that makes me angry at myself. I guess I am only human.
So yeah, I have some work to do on myself. But just for today, like TT said, I don't have to show up to every fight I am invited to.
Continued ESH is certainly welcomed!
TT and PnP I know it is okay with you both to look over your shoulders and reaffirm my own recovery thru your esh. PnP forgiveness is a guarantee resentment eliminator and so very often automatic and fast. My former sponsor taught me "the opposites" that when a certain emotion was causing me pain and problems, if I practiced the opposite of that emotion I would get the opposite condition. The opposite of resentment is forgiveness. I wanted the opposite condition so bad I just without condition acted as if and then made it a part of my daily life. I rarely suffer from resentment now and I like the power the practice has over me.
TT The ending of your response to PnP starting with "we can say a prayer for others..." is habit for me..."A compulsion of the mind and practice of the spirit". So much a program in itself. Thanks also.
My hearing aids went on the blink yesterday and gives me just 25 - 30% performance now. Grateful you both type loud. LOL (((((hugs)))))
And you know, circling back around to what TT said about saying that prayer for others... it has helped me.
That can be my "doing opposite" today. I can relieve my resentment by saying a prayer that my Ex can have his HP give him peace and acceptance of what is today.
That can be my step with Forgiveness.
With gratitude,
-- Edited by PosiesandPuppies on Sunday 17th of May 2020 12:34:35 PM
Practice, Practice, Practice. (((hugs)))
However, all of that was before recovery. When I was doing the work, and in the process of recovery, living a life of recovery, etc. -- I learned a great deal...ABOUT MYSELF. I had to look at me, my role, what impact these text messages were having on me. Now, I didn't analyze or try and figure out why they were sending me the text messages, I didn't try and analyze them, etc. Trying to figure out the alcoholic or unhealthy/dysfunctional person is an exercise in futility. In my experience, the more I tried to do that -- two things happened -- one, the more I did that the more I drove myself crazy; and two, the more I did that, the less time and effort I had available to focus on me and my recovery, and what I needed to do for me!
You can't apply logic to an illogical person and disease. You can't be rational in dealing with an irrational person and disease. I also learned the the person, the text messages, and replying, the engaging, was my drug! Wait, what? I was past the relationship and the person. It couldn't be my drug! But it was. If it weren't, then it wouldn't have anywhere near the impact it did on me. If it weren't, it wouldn't have any impact at all. I'd be able to view it for exactly what it was. But, I couldn't. That was before recovery.
I had to get off the drug. Period. I had to get better and get healthy, so that I couldn't reply, or if a reply was absolutely necessary, I would reply with a very limited scope and nothing else. Clear, concise, closed-ended, and that's it!
I learned to say "Thank you" AND NOTHING ELSE. Even if I made it closed-ended, and DID NOT invite a reply, I would still get one. OK, but that didn't mean I had to reply! I got a text from the ex during this pandemic, and I replied "Thank you" and that was it. It didn't matter that it wasn't one hundred percent applicable, but that's OK. When I got another unsolicited reply, I simply said "All the best" or "Good that all is well" and that's it. I can always say "I am sorry you feel that way" or "I am not going to engage and get into a back and forth with you" -- and be clear. Say what I mean, mean what I say, and don't say it mean. However, all of us realize that unless we say and do exactly what the alcoholic wants...we are always going to be wrong, we are always going to get some message of accusation, name-calling, conclusion drawing fault, blame, etc. That's OK...that's part of THEIR DISEASE. Our disease is the stinking thinking. Caring what they thing of us. Outward thinking in.
Think about sharing "I was dealing with some resentments, so I was going to not text back until I could get a handle on them." -- will probably be read as let's talk about this at some other time, let's dance at another time, etc. If that's what you want, OK. For me, no, that's not what I wanted. I wanted it done. I wanted off the drug! And in order to be off the drug, I wasn't going to communicate with, be friends with, hang out with, etc., the drug dealer!!! The drug dealer will always give you a free taste, to keep you engaged, to keep you in the dance!
Why do we get angry at what they say? Well, in my experience, once we look at ourselves, no paralysis by analysis, we can see our role, our contribution as to WHY w feel what we feel. It could be a people-pleasing thing, it could be co-dependency, it could be wanting to be loved, liked, etc., it could be validation or affirmation. At the same time, what is a very common trigger is "feeling wronged" by untruths, false accusations and convictions, etc. I was angry because the other person truly believed what they were saying -- about them being innocent and me being guilty -- being stated as fact. They had such a distorted, completely false recollection of history, what really happened, facts, etc. -- and they are simply lying to me, making me out to be the bad guy, and saying I did this, I did that, and so on and so on. A few more minutes and they would have be being the one who killed JFK and they would be stating that as matter of factly as today is Sunday! LOL.
When I got healthy, I was able to live in a space where no matter what the other person said, I was OK with it. I took it for nothing, and simply knew and understood where and from who it came from. Period. It didn't live rent-free in my head. It didn't impact me. Why do I care what an unhealthy, alcoholic, etc., thinks of me. I feel sorry for them. I have compassion for them. Their thinking, thought process, recollection, perspective, and so much more is completely distorted and corrupted! I felt sorry for them. I had compassion for them. I understood that they were not healthy and they were simply "doing what they do" -- and while I didn't focus on it, I understood all the reasons why!
For me, I had to get off the drug...so that I could get healthy. Then, AFTER I got better, healthy...when the drug was presented to me...I was able to ignore the invitation to try some...even just a taste! LOL.
My experience in recovery is when I am faced with baggage from the past, I have choices always. My standard boundaries today suggest I will go out of my way to avoid unnecessary chaos/drama from anyone, loved or passive and I just don't do crazy/controlling any more. There was a time in my recovery where I used the block feature on my phone to enforce that boundary. I no longer have to. I can get a 'crazy-making blame/shame throwing text' from a family member or other and not take it personally. It's taken me a ton of practice/time to get here - I'm the program person that carried a Q-TIP in my pocket for a few YEARS to remind myself of this.
I've always, always been told to pray for another when I resent them or feel hurt/betrayed by them. Surprisingly enough, it does work to bring me peace and clarity. My old MO was to sit and worry about their words/actions, their perceptions, their truth, how different they saw things, etc. I just don't do that anymore as it's not healthy for me.
I have done all that's suggested and all that I know to clean up my side of the street. I've made my amends and continue with my living amends. I do my life much differently today and work hard to NOT judge others, cause pain or react - esp. when this disease is involved. I'm far from perfect but have made great progress! What I've discovered with my parental emergency is there will always be some people that no matter what you do, how you change/grow, they will see you as they choose to and/or how they remember you! I have found through this recent parental emergency that my oldest brother has chosen to not forgive me nor accept amends from past mistakes/pain I caused more than 35 years ago.
While hearing this caught me off-guard, my response was simple - his perceptions of me are none of my business and I don't understand why 'this' is coming up now when we're in the middle of a pandemic and our aging parents are extremely ill. Trust me when I say that a part of me, as the youngest and only girl, really, really wanted to JADE all across this darn country, yet my recovery kicked in, I stayed as present as possible and opted out of the drama/chaos of another. I believe deep down that no good can come from a confrontation, and there's no point in taking any other action - I have changed and do differently today, but others often do not.
I absolutely love that I learned in recovery that most times, the best response to an invitation to chaos/drama is no response at all. These kinds of situations have certainly given me opportunities to change up my boundaries and in some cases, redefine what relationship I want (if at all) with the other party. The healthier I get in my program, the easier it is to let go of unhealthy people, places and things. I hold on always to my believe that my HP really truly wants me happy, joyous and free and if that means setting some folks aside, so be it.
YOLO - You Only Live Once girl - choose joy, always and every time! We no longer have to accept the burden of other's thoughts, feelings or words. We can literally let them go and move forward with our life and our day. I never discount or judge another's perceptions, simply because that takes the focus from me. Instead, I focus on what our Serenity Prayer says and stay inside my own hula-hoop. You done good and you got this! (((Hugs)))
That really is sucky, isn't it?
There were a lot of other things in those vows. You could ask him when the Love, Honor and Cherish part comes into play. Grins.
I'm sorry you got your buttons pushed. And I think you've already worked through a lot of it. Just wanted to say I feel your pain, and aren't you glad you don't have to respond at the same level! You haven't done anything wrong. I remember hearing Dr. Phil says, some years ago: "Alcoholism is a deal breaker."
He's just trying to make himself feel better by making you feel worse, if he can. Pathetic, isn't it? So you pray for him. I like that.
Keep on taking care of you. I like what Bo said.
Thanks for sharing. You are doing well.
Hugs,
Temple
((pnp))) glad something in my response helped you. It was a good idea after reaching out to your sponsor to review your post on forgiveness and other posts here. Hp gave you direction :) I hope you had a good rest of the day. TT
-- Edited by tiredtonite on Sunday 17th of May 2020 08:52:50 PM
Its OK if you cannot forgive right now or that he has committed a new offense for which you cannot forgive right now. It has happened to me as well where people do things willfully and destructively its difficult to forgive in fact I dont even use that word I just keep working on me and my program and I just after feeling all the feelings and everything, I arrive at the place where I can let go of the resentment and just wrap them up in a big hefty trash bag and throw them in the trash and they are out of my life and my mind and my heart. Just keep giving it over to my higher power
Some stuff is just not forgivable or its long time in coming and the word forgive really what does it mean it means cutting them loose from our emotions and minds and that takes time after working through all the feelings and emotions and addressing the anger and expressing it and discharging it and also realizing that some people are just toxic and theres nothing you can do but just Kaslow my way but first you have to be with your feelings I know I do
And it could very well be that you still have old unfinished emotions to deal with I mean he screwed you over a lot and its going to take time. Be easy on yourself be loving to yourself be gentle with yourself I think you are doing great and its OK to be pissed off for a while and not able to forgive someone who is just deliberately toxic or they are just not working their program because they dont want to be any better. You take care and Im sending you a big hug and I hope this post made sense Im using my phone microphone because I injured my finger and it just hurts too much To use the keyboard
Years ago when I was on this board alot I remember something another poster said. I am paraphrasing because I do not remember word for word.She said that alcoholics are emotional vampires.They get some kind of 'fix' from getting us upset.The more upset we get,the more energy they draw from it.In my experience it seems that after he gets me all riled up, he feels better, calms down and watches tv or something.Then I look like the crazy one and the argument appears to be all my fault..
Anyone ever hear of this?
Iris
I heard it and also watch the power of it work. Alcoholism is cunning, powerful and baffling...watch it work and see and feel what it happens to do to everyone it touches. Early program we use to read the definition of alcoholism before our meetings and it mentions, "It affects everyone it comes into contact with. I have and it is stunning. Keep coming back cause that works when we work it. (((hugs)))
TT our program seems to be gentle and loving very clearly however watching it work against this world wide powerful fatal disease impresses me when it is worked as suggested. I have seen so many miracles and always anticipate the ones coming next. Thanks for your ESH. ((((HUGS))))
-- Edited by JerryF on Monday 18th of May 2020 06:10:23 PM
When I do good inventory on every resentment that pops up, I will see myself
All of us are selfish, self-seeking, dishonest and fearful when sense of self, the "little me" gets all stirred up and feels threatened.
By taking responsibility and forgiving myself (first things first) instead of division and separating good guys from bad guys (disease of perception) we are now equal, now giving away everything we are wanting, HPs grace flowing in as you tune in.... to pray.... for HIM. (miracles)
THAT is getting it, THAT is what we came for, good work! it was right "here" all along (hand over heart.)