Dear Joanne The level of chaos you are dealing with is nothing to do with your giving anyone food meals or help. I find the term enabling oretty orejuduce Getting to the place where you can say no and mean no is not easy It is extremely hard. Please lean on this grouo This is an extraordinary time. we all need support You deserve it Nothing about offering someine helo means they have to drink to the point they end up hospitalized

BT, thank you for your share. It really resonates with me, and gives a lot of insight. Finally achieving compassion for your AH is an amazing place. Make sure it's meaningful, real, long-term, permanent, etc. -- because the slips are common. Keep working at it, keep working your program and it will become more substantial, more real, long-term, etc. Great job, great work you've done!!! In my experience, many people say they get there, but they really don't. Kind of like acceptance. Saying it and living it are two different things.

So, now, it is seeing the disease with your eyes wide open. That's very interesting, very insightful. I completely get what you are saying and experiencing about the 'normal' and "being sober" and so on. Hence, we hear about dry drunk, recovery, and so on. What I've learned and experienced is -- the biggest difference between an alcoholic who simply stopped drinking vs. an alcoholic who is in recovery, working a program, etc. -- is that that former in an untreated alcoholic who simply stopped drinking for some period of time. In addition, and I know this all too well...the former also still has the 'isms!!! Yes, I've seen people in recovery have 'isms, but it is still recovery. Regardless, the two are very different things.

For me, one thing that I learned over time...and it happens to be a cliche...but actions speak louder than words. Actually, for me, actions speak. Words are meaningless. Over the course of my marriage, my life, with and without alcoholics/addicts, what an alcoholic says, means nothing. What they actually do tells me everything! Period. I don't care what they say, they promise, they claim, and so on. We have heard it an face to face alanon meetings countless times...How do you know when an alcoholic/addict is lying? Their lips are moving! Me, I simply watch what they do. Period. My wife went to a rehab once, and through a professional friend, I was able to meet with consulting clinical director who was a nationally known professional in the field of addiction. I spent about 90 minutes with him, and I learned more during those 90 minutes than I did reading any book, listening to any speaker, etc. It wasn't a scientific discussion. It was simply and only about a life.

It is very simple to know what and who you are dealing with regarding an alcoholic/addict. Simply look at who they are being. Exactly what are they doing. They are one of two people. That's it. Most people don't want to do this. They are in denial, afraid, want to defend, rationalize, justify, whatever. I get it. Been there done that. Many people want to believe the alcoholic/addict...so they listen and believe what they say...instead of looking at what they are doing and who they are being.

I love that you said, what is different is YOU. I love that!!! Separating the disease from the person is another place many people don't get. But you do, and all the while you still see the reality that he is in "full blown denial" as you call it, and, that he is not ready to accept, admit, etc., that he has a problem. Wow. That's amazing.

More to follow...I have a zoom alanon meeting to join!!! Thank you so much for sharing!!!

Hi Joanne, I know this is a very difficult time and I love your topic -- the next stage of recovery. You wrote, "I feel determined and resolved that my own recovery (and the children) are my number one priority." When I came to that awareness myself, that was the turning point in my recovery. I knew I had to focus on what I could do for myself, and to change myself. I also started to realize that I had to allow others to help and support me, because I could not by myself handle the situation -- similar to yours, very sick alcoholic husband dealing with falls and hospital stays.

What helped me for the underlying sadness and loss -- definitely grieving the husband and marriage I used to have, thought I had, wanted to have -- was turning my attention to everything outside of that. Al-Anon, sponsor (I think if my sponsor were unavailable I might call someone else on the meeting's telephone list), work, hobbies, decorating my own space, and being willing to reach out to friends who would understand. I got a therapist too. A light went on for me when I realized I DESERVE MY OWN RECOVERY! (not shouting, just saying that's how big this idea was for me.)

Slogans lifted my spirits -- One Day At A Time, DETACH = Don't Even Think About Changing Him/Her, YAHOO = You Always Have Other Options.

I think you were very courageous in letting him find his own way home from the hospital. I never thought to do that when I was in your position. Think how much strength and courage you have to move through this horrible patch and find your way out stronger on the other side.

Joanne you are doing so well. You have your priorities and youve seen alcoholism for what it is, separate from you (and the kids). In the beginning, I used to get lost in mourning my perfect marriage and family. It wasnt until I let go of the idea of perfect that I felt better. Where did I get it anyway? Wasnt from my upbringing. TV? My misunderstanding of the surface view of others? Childhood simplicity and an image of what it might feel like not being abandoned? All if the above. At least I have down what it feels like to not be abandoned. I fought and for myself and was patient with myself. Im still here and not giving up ever. I learned how to be the one who hangs in there for myself. That, my relationship with HP, and my reliance on the Alanon community gets me where I need to be. I am a firm believer in the idea, when I dont know what to do or feel unsure, that more will be revealed when HP wants me to know. It helped me to focus on how proud and excited I was about the new sense of self emerging in me. It feels so good to not be mired in the chaos and the truly upside down existence of the past. It doesnt mean ive Made all kinds of big decisions or declarations. Ive just put boundaries in place and stay true to them in a way that is meaningful to me. Its not a straight line to serenity. I just keep focus on my priorities like you are and work the program until it is second nature. Coming back always helps.

Part 2, LOL... I always admire and respect someone when they get to a place and they "I am different" so to speak. That's what we strive for. I don't know anyone who comes into alanon, goes to meetings, does the work, etc. -- and says no, I don't want to change, no I want to stay the same. LOL. Early on, when I got to the point where I was able to separate the disease from the person -- that brought me a new problem. The new problem was that I was still in a bit of denial, not wanting to face reality, so I was quick to "excuse" the alcoholic, quick to say "how important is it" and I was even accepting unacceptable behavior...BECAUSE I was making an excuse in saying "She would never do that IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE ALCOHOL. I found myself saying, she would never do these things, this is her drinking and the alcohol that is allowing her, causing her, etc., to do these things. She would never do ___________ if she weren't an alcoholic.

So that became a problem for me. What did I do about it? I did the work!!! I kept working the program, talking to my sponsor, getting better, getting healthier. What really did it for me was the talking, learning, and interacting with my sponsor. That was the real work for me. Not reading a book on alcoholism, not the internet, not even just going to meetings. In my experience, "the work" takes place outside of meetings.

I too allowed my wife to "come back home" and I too also "returned home" -- thus, going back twice! For me, it wasn't as much about compassion as it was ME WANTING TO BELIEVE. Was I enabling? ABSOLUTELY. Like with many of the tools of our program -- and I think a lot of people don't get this -- there are many definitions, practical applications of enabling!!! It is NOT just doing something for someone that they can do for themselves. It is NOT just buying the alcoholic alcohol. Enabling can be so much more than that!!! For me, making my wife's life "easy" -- and therefore making it easier for her to drink -- was enabling. One thing I've learned...ACCEPTANCE DOESN'T MEAN ACCEPTING UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR!!!

I think the online meetings are great because there are so many of them, and they are making housecalls! LOL. We don't have to leave our house. While I am healthy, and live a wonderful life, I am attending meetings for other reasons, to listen, learn, give back, hear things I know but hear them in a different way, from a different perspective, etc. The other day I attended zoom meetings -- in Northern NJ, then NYC, then Seattle, and then LA. Four meetings in one day and I didn't have to leave my house!

In my experience, when a person makes "getting better" and "getting healthy" (recovery) the most important thing, the focal point, and they go to meetings, do the readings, talks to their sponsor, and they do the work...THEY WILL GET BETTER. PERIOD. THEY WILL GET HEALTHY. PERIOD. I heard someone once say, if you do the work, then you will get better. If you don't, then you need to look at what "do the work" means to you, look at your definition of what it means. I agree.

So, when I did this...all I felt, was, sadness, major loss, emptiness, alone, and lonely, despair. Why would I not? I knew I would...and therefore, I avoided this scenario, I avoided getting to this point...because I knew it would be painful. That's denial. That's part of my sickness, my disease. That's human nature! However, something completely unexpected happened!!! They say in the rooms of face to face alanon meetings...stick around and wait for the miracle to happen...and guess what...it did!!! What happened was a miracle. What happened was -- I didn't just decide to leave, get her to leave, get separated, end the marriage. I DID THE WORK. Like the original poster said "I WAS DIFFERENT." I CHANGED. I GOT BETTER. I GOT HEALTHY. I had done the work, and became a better, healthier, stronger, better equipped, had better and very strong well being. I had gotten to a better and healthier place, one with intellect, calmness, peace, serenity, and I GOT TO A PLACE WHERE I WAS WILLING, ABLE, AND READY TO LOOK AT THE TRUTH, THE REALITY OF THE WORLD THAT WAS AROUND ME, AND THE REALITY OF THE LIFE I WAS LIVING.

What I learned was that my sadness and loss wasn't about being sad and loss from the life that I was in...it was about being sad and losing the life that we once had and that I wanted back!!! I was sad and felt loss from what I wanted and was hoping for. I felt sadness and felt tremendous loss from what I really wanted -- and was in denial about!!! I so wanted her to stop drinking and then life would go back to where it was before. That's all I wanted. What was. Not what could be -- but what was, what we had before!!! My sponsor and I spent a lot of time -- real time, on the phone -- talking, looking at, discussing, learning, and more, about all of this being about ME...what I wanted, was hoping for, wanting back, expecting, praying for, wishing for, and so on. I still had hoped that after doing everything the alanon program taught me to do...my wife would feel the consequences, the pain, of her own actions, would hit rock bottom, want to quit drinking, want to get better...and then we would be fine!!! THIS WAS ABOUT ME. We went back to ACCEPTANCE. Complete, total, absolute, and unconditional ACCEPTANCE. The type and extent of acceptance that you don't read about...it was the type that you have to learn, and dig for, dig deep, and relate to who you are and the life you are living at the time. I so rarely hear about it, but did at this one face to face meeting I go to where everyone in the room has 20 plus years in alanon, focuses on alanon and the alanon program, lives a life of recovery, and has had the alanon program, principles, slogans, etc., become innate in who they are and who they are being.

I spoke to my sponsor about exactly what it would take to get past this LOSS and this SADNESS. I didn't want to cope. I wanted to feel it and recover. You can't go around it, you can't go over it, and you can't go under it. If you want to get better...YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH IT. However, going through it is not always what people think!!! And because they think they know it will be like to go through it...they don't!!! We naturally, innately, avoid pain, we avoid unpleasantness, and the like. However, what often we don't understand is that -- when we get better, get healthy, what we end up having to go through is not as painful and difficult as we expected or made it out to be. I went through what I had to go to through before I was healthy and better, and then again after I was healthy and better...and believe me...the second time was a walk in the park compared to the first!!!

I've been in the rooms of alanon for 26 years this June, and I am not a once a week meeting person. I've done a great deal of work, personally, and professionally, in this area, and related areas. My point being, I've seen a lot. When you see some of the same things happen, occur, over and over again, you start to get it. You learn what works and what doesn't. You experience "getting it" and "thinking you get it" and you see what goes on in and around that. You have tremendous clarity...and awareness...and that is 95% of the battle!!! The last 5% can be easy...or it can be impossible. Most people don't go that last 5%. That's my experience and what I've learned in my own recovery.

So, when I did this -- did the work, got better, got healthy -- and then I had to go through the sadness and the lost, an amazing thing happened. It wasn't what I expected. Not exactly. When I did the work -- the sadness was lifted. Was I sad, yes, but they were moments in time. It wasn't me being a sad person. I was a healthy person who felt sad about something. I felt it but it wasn't who I was!!! There is a massive difference between the two. I felt sad, but it didn't consume me. I felt sad, but I wasn't a sad person. What also countered the sadness was the reality that my wife was NOT capable of being in any kind of normal, healthy, functional relationship with me. And, more important...what she was capable of doing, giving, etc., WAS NOT THE LIFE I WANTED TO LIVE. I didn't want nor could I put up with a "part-time" wonderful marriage and wife. The times she wasn't there, emotionally, mentally, etc., hurt me, took away from the life I wanted. The loss -- was bifurcated -- REALITY was that I was losing a life that I did NOT want at all, the drama, the chaos, the turmoil, the havoc, coming home and having a partner, drunk, not able to carry on a conversation, being incoherent, etc. I was losing what was making me unhealthy! What was driving me crazy! What I went to meetings to recover from, and I did...and I wasn't losing this, I decided that I now longer wanted this!!! I deserved and wanted more!!! The second part of the loss -- was the loss of, what was, and what I wanted back!!! She was incapable of doing this, contributing to this, of being in a normal, healthy, functional marriage, partnership and life!!! I only lost what wasn't possible. Now, that doesn't make the loss easier! But, with acceptance, real acceptance, and then turning it over and letting go of what couldn't be, the reality...and with a lot of phone calls with my sponsor...and with a lot of work...the loss too did NOT consume me.

We make monsters in our mind...and we make the monsters bigger and bigger. Sometimes the monsters are real. Sometimes they are not. And often, the monsters aren't as big as we expected them to be, and they are not as big as we made them out to be. Facing the monster, if in fact there is one...and slaying the monster, ends up not being what we expected or thought it would be.

Alanon works...if you allow it to, if you commit to it, if want it to...and the results of that, if you want it, truly want it, can be a wonderful and happy life.

You are so very welcome Joanne...and thank you so very much for sharing this! You being vulnerable touches, moves, and inspires me greatly! It reminds me of where I was, where I will never be again (I hope, LOL), but more importantly...how I can live my life each and every single day! I am not disputing that you feel very fragile...but I have to tell you...YOU DON'T SOUND IT!!! You sound strong. You have so much awareness and even more clarity in and around your situation. That's amazing and I want to acknowledge and compliment you on that. MOST people do NOT get to where you are!!! They continue to rationalize, vacillate, justify, etc., and live in denial...and many do so for years!!! I see it and see it and I hear it and hear it, every day. You however see so clearly and YOU DID THE WORK!!! And it's obvious from your post and these words you so simply, clearly, and concisely said..."What is different is me."

You sound not only strong, but clear-headed, clear-communicative, you sound like you have a sound, level, quality thought process, and that whatever you do or don't do, whatever decisions you make or don't make...you sound like you are making them from a position of strength, a quality and healthy state of mind and thought process, a place of logic, intellect, and well-being. I don't see fragility or weakness. I don't see anxiety, fear, or anything of the like.

Perhaps Joanne you are doing much better than you think or feel. That happened to me before. Other people saw and heard me getting better (from my sharing in the rooms) before I did!

Lockdown or not -- for me -- it was simple. ACCEPTANCE, SURRENDER, LETTING GO. Yes, I did that work with my sponsor, every day. Yes, I spiked up my meetings. Maybe a temporary sponsor or a fill-in sponsor could be an option for you? They don't have to know your life or story...they just need to help you get a handle on and address the underlying sadness and loss that you feel...and KEEP IT SIMPLE can work here!!!

KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK...ON YOU AND FOR YOU AND YOUR KIDS!

BT: I am steps behind you in my recovery process but I wanted to give you a word of encouragement. I'm trying to get where you are and reading your post today has given me a lot of inspiration. You sound like you have made very solid strides in your evolution and I wish you all the best.

[hugs]

Fedora