Must be 8 years since we were in the USA. Travelling from New Jersey to New York An.'s mum died in NZ. We were in an okay place since her sister and nieces were in South Dakota- and we were on our way there, after a sojourn in the big apple.
Was able to attend Betty's Alanon meeting for a bit of grounding. Also went to the Rainbow Centre in Greenwich village and attended an ACA meeting there.
Memories come flooding for me theses days. And am getting on top of the pain and cold suffer from- though it does seem to take forever.
In this neck of the woods- there is really no therapy available. ACA was able to provide this therapy- which I applied to myself.
While in Florida I was going to AA meetings with my SIL. She was drinking, because of the pain she was suffering. On both our visits we spent time on the beach collecting vintage shark's teeth. On meeting I got sick of sitting there like a stuffed dummy and declared my alcoholic past. I stopped hard drinking at age 17 after skulling a quart of whiskey. I blacked out- and that scared the living Be-Jaysus out of me.
And on my return home I went to the local AA meeting four times- just as a rain-check. Then I went to my nearest f2f Alanon meeting- for 5 or 5 meetings.
But most of my work and involvement now is in ACA. i know a whole lot of members in the whole of our country.
The dream was to see AA, Alanon and ACA working closely together. exchanging members, and swapping notes.
Over 25 years ago someone came into our valleys and ran two ACA weekend workshops. These went well and I met two cousins there- from a neighbouring community. However on the Sunday afternoon of the second workshop the Alanon District Rep rocked up and basically banned it!.
About 10 years ago the World CEO of Alanon came to visit our District. Rick B. He shared with us, both as a member, and in his role as CEO. In his sharing he was able to demonstrate the boundaries between these two seperate but compatible roles.
During the workshops we held then i questioned him about ACA. He was very positive and open. I thought I might have been sowing a seed- but I did not need to with him.
I like it here- with MIP- because the 12 Step groups work okay together. And of course Alanon has always been the biggest group- since I have been here, anyway.
Which does prove that the groups can work together- and can share common online "clubrooms".
In our ACA national convention we talked about going to AA-Alanon assemblies. Felt that this was unlikely to happen in our southern assembly. [Our whole country has six assemblies.]
beside the interests- at the present time I cannot see Alanon being around in 20 years time. I believe strongly in passing it on. But- from what I can see there is nobody around to pass it in to.
I really love this group- because i am still learning and growing here- and it there are any solutions around the bend I am hoping I might be a part of these.
I have had ongoing talks with Betty over these issues. Especially around the MIP Steps board- where she ran the Alanon Steps, and Traditions.
For me any answers- will be around ESH, and personal example.
Promotion by attraction.
Thanks for the share... ...
DavidG said
Apr 27, 2020
R e f l e c t i o n s . . . . .
Please, grant me the serenity,
to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can
and the wisdom to know the difference.
I am a believer, but I modified that "personal petition"
maybe, to appeal l more to non-believers and disbelievers.
newnoz said
Apr 29, 2020
I tend to agree with you, David. I keep catching h%** for my logo project. I really wish I could somehow legally cede the darn things to Al-Anon. But that is another kettle of fish. I need to rant here.
There was some 'tension' a while ago when ACA was pre-forming and neither side came out the winner IMHO. I continue to hope that there be some sort of reconciliation. I wasn't there at the height (1985ish) of it but closer to the beginning. Having no understanding of how things worked back then ( I was still wondering why we had to read the steps every time) I was closer in age to the ACA ones plus it all seemed reasonable to me compared to my children's substance abuse problems. ( Kid number 2 has 25 years now. Kid number one doesn't have contact with me for reasons i don't fully grasp) My adult children Al-Anon meeting was close to where i lived and the Al-Anon meeting was way across town. I related to the Adult Child stuff better as there were not a lot of parents of alcoholics I heard from in Al-Anon. I also went to PDAP which had groups just for parents. Specialization I suppose.
I'd really like to see the dilution of program reframed so we can know what would undo Al-Anon as a whole and what we could find a way to live with as I keep hearing about it but in some ways, i don't understand the harm of certain things. Is there a means of affiliation that leaves all parties free to do their own program but also allows for better use of resources and creates goodwill? I don't know. I am willing to listen and learn here. Is there an alternative to a handful of old people, mostly women, being Al-Anon or can we find a means to appeal to people again? NO ONE I've ever seen comes into a first 12 step program with ease. It is hard walking in that door and hard to keep going. What did we use to do? I have worked hard to make a bridge with AA as have other people in our local Al-Anon and there are still people who would try and tear it down. At one assembly I attended they kept on about not talking about anything but Al-Anon before and after meetings. Is there a point where I take that too far? With newcomers, yes. It seems to me that I am supposed to defend Al-Anon from situations that are not threats such as other programs.
Sorry for the rant. It was good to get it written down. Better out than in. I wonder what sort of mess I made here. I don't intend to do that but I hope someone somewhere looks for a middle road.
Nora G Still in Toowoomba
DavidG said
Apr 29, 2020
Nice to hear your share, Nora... ...
I have mum's messages ringing in my ears. Shut up! I hate peace! And- Don't annoy your father!
So, we have just had an adult to adult conversation- and we haven't been banned or censured!
This group is dandy. I pay my dues with Tradition 7. But what I learned with Betty- in her Steps Group- was that is was all our contributions that mattered. Not just the financial one.
Rocking up to a meeting.Sharing... taking up service when we are ready. Just pitching in really.
We have two AA meetings in town here now. I was a co-founder of the Thursday night meeting. It was an open sharing steps meeting- which combined both Alanon and AA. [It is now really pure AA.]
Because we all lived in a small town and it made sense to work together.
Inside of MIP Alanon- I stick to pure Alanon. I am an adult child- and this group serves us all well.
I like it heaps that i am an ordinary member- with no other role. this is my hang-out place. My hacienda... ...
DavidG said
Apr 29, 2020
Hmmm... One time I went to a meeting in Ballarat. There were a lot of 20's and young 30's there.
Here, in our district, you will hear the Steps, Traditions, 12 Concepts and The Warranties of Service read out at each meeting.
Then the group will take it in turns to read conference approved literature.
So that takes up 55 minutes of a meeting. You might be lucky to hear a reading from one of our daily readers.
At the point where our local group closed I asked if I could read a reading from Hope For Today.
I was told no- because it was not conference approved.
This MIP group, thank goodness is safe, along the right lines, tolerant and friendly. ...
DavidG said
Apr 29, 2020
I came through Alanon, as the only male- for many years. Did not mind this, or even notice, this most of the time.
I was closely aligned with my mum, who has also been to one, or two meetings- when she worked entreatment centres, as a nurse.
In ACA there seem to be about 80% younger women. Quite a lot are also double winners. I also mention our Alanon readers, for adult children - From Survival to Recovery, and Hope for Today. In remoter areas Alanon is still the only group available- and a really good option. :D
I look for the day when all our 12 Step groups work closely together- since we all share members a fair bit.
But especially AA, Alanon and ACA.
The MIP groups were set with love- by John F. and strongly supported by Betty. ... ...
We are a good example of unity:- and may this always be so!
...
newnoz said
May 3, 2020
I'm not sure if it is so, not being an AA but I have heard that Al-Anon is about spiritual maturity. Obviously, if a person is not ready to deal with people in another program that isn't maturity. I often wonder how one alcoholic supports another without al-anon since they are in a friendship relationship with many other alcoholics. No program is superior to another like one person is not superior. The world may see him or her so since they bring something that the world values. What God values is what matters and my God doesn't play favourites. My HP gives out all sorts of gifts to me and to others. Many times i feel small compared to another person and then I remember when I was the one who did something that impressed others and I am a flawed human being. I figure it is only because my HP didn't see a need for me to go down the AA road in this lifetime.
I'd really like to read some of the books our founders read prior to the program as what I have read is very good. It comes down to the spiritual awakening being the beginning again. Some people don't think they have had one but I see differently in that they act differently than when they came in. Perhaps some sneak up on us. <smile>
Must be 8 years since we were in the USA. Travelling from New Jersey to New York An.'s mum died in NZ. We were in an okay place since her sister and nieces were in South Dakota- and we were on our way there, after a sojourn in the big apple.
Was able to attend Betty's Alanon meeting for a bit of grounding. Also went to the Rainbow Centre in Greenwich village and attended an ACA meeting there.
Memories come flooding for me theses days. And am getting on top of the pain and cold suffer from- though it does seem to take forever.
In this neck of the woods- there is really no therapy available. ACA was able to provide this therapy- which I applied to myself.
While in Florida I was going to AA meetings with my SIL. She was drinking, because of the pain she was suffering. On both our visits we spent time on the beach collecting vintage shark's teeth. On meeting I got sick of sitting there like a stuffed dummy and declared my alcoholic past. I stopped hard drinking at age 17 after skulling a quart of whiskey. I blacked out- and that scared the living Be-Jaysus out of me.
And on my return home I went to the local AA meeting four times- just as a rain-check. Then I went to my nearest f2f Alanon meeting- for 5 or 5 meetings.
But most of my work and involvement now is in ACA. i know a whole lot of members in the whole of our country.
The dream was to see AA, Alanon and ACA working closely together. exchanging members, and swapping notes.
Over 25 years ago someone came into our valleys and ran two ACA weekend workshops. These went well and I met two cousins there- from a neighbouring community. However on the Sunday afternoon of the second workshop the Alanon District Rep rocked up and basically banned it!.
About 10 years ago the World CEO of Alanon came to visit our District. Rick B. He shared with us, both as a member, and in his role as CEO. In his sharing he was able to demonstrate the boundaries between these two seperate but compatible roles.
During the workshops we held then i questioned him about ACA. He was very positive and open. I thought I might have been sowing a seed- but I did not need to with him.
I like it here- with MIP- because the 12 Step groups work okay together. And of course Alanon has always been the biggest group- since I have been here, anyway.
Which does prove that the groups can work together- and can share common online "clubrooms".
In our ACA national convention we talked about going to AA-Alanon assemblies. Felt that this was unlikely to happen in our southern assembly. [Our whole country has six assemblies.]
beside the interests- at the present time I cannot see Alanon being around in 20 years time. I believe strongly in passing it on. But- from what I can see there is nobody around to pass it in to.
I really love this group- because i am still learning and growing here- and it there are any solutions around the bend I am hoping I might be a part of these.
I have had ongoing talks with Betty over these issues. Especially around the MIP Steps board- where she ran the Alanon Steps, and Traditions.
For me any answers- will be around ESH, and personal example.
Promotion by attraction.
R e f l e c t i o n s . . . . .
Please, grant me the serenity,
to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can
and the wisdom to know the difference.
I am a believer, but I modified that "personal petition"
maybe, to appeal l more to non-believers and disbelievers.
I tend to agree with you, David. I keep catching h%** for my logo project. I really wish I could somehow legally cede the darn things to Al-Anon. But that is another kettle of fish. I need to rant here.
There was some 'tension' a while ago when ACA was pre-forming and neither side came out the winner IMHO. I continue to hope that there be some sort of reconciliation. I wasn't there at the height (1985ish) of it but closer to the beginning. Having no understanding of how things worked back then ( I was still wondering why we had to read the steps every time) I was closer in age to the ACA ones plus it all seemed reasonable to me compared to my children's substance abuse problems. ( Kid number 2 has 25 years now. Kid number one doesn't have contact with me for reasons i don't fully grasp) My adult children Al-Anon meeting was close to where i lived and the Al-Anon meeting was way across town. I related to the Adult Child stuff better as there were not a lot of parents of alcoholics I heard from in Al-Anon. I also went to PDAP which had groups just for parents. Specialization I suppose.
I'd really like to see the dilution of program reframed so we can know what would undo Al-Anon as a whole and what we could find a way to live with as I keep hearing about it but in some ways, i don't understand the harm of certain things. Is there a means of affiliation that leaves all parties free to do their own program but also allows for better use of resources and creates goodwill? I don't know. I am willing to listen and learn here. Is there an alternative to a handful of old people, mostly women, being Al-Anon or can we find a means to appeal to people again? NO ONE I've ever seen comes into a first 12 step program with ease. It is hard walking in that door and hard to keep going. What did we use to do? I have worked hard to make a bridge with AA as have other people in our local Al-Anon and there are still people who would try and tear it down. At one assembly I attended they kept on about not talking about anything but Al-Anon before and after meetings. Is there a point where I take that too far? With newcomers, yes. It seems to me that I am supposed to defend Al-Anon from situations that are not threats such as other programs.
Sorry for the rant. It was good to get it written down. Better out than in. I wonder what sort of mess I made here. I don't intend to do that but I hope someone somewhere looks for a middle road.
Nora G
Still in Toowoomba
Nice to hear your share, Nora...
...
I have mum's messages ringing in my ears. Shut up! I hate peace! And- Don't annoy your father!
So, we have just had an adult to adult conversation- and we haven't been banned or censured!
This group is dandy. I pay my dues with Tradition 7. But what I learned with Betty- in her Steps Group- was that is was all our contributions that mattered. Not just the financial one.
Rocking up to a meeting.Sharing... taking up service when we are ready. Just pitching in really.
We have two AA meetings in town here now. I was a co-founder of the Thursday night meeting. It was an open sharing steps meeting- which combined both Alanon and AA. [It is now really pure AA.]
Because we all lived in a small town and it made sense to work together.
Inside of MIP Alanon- I stick to pure Alanon. I am an adult child- and this group serves us all well.
I like it heaps that i am an ordinary member- with no other role. this is my hang-out place. My hacienda...
...
Hmmm... One time I went to a meeting in Ballarat. There were a lot of 20's and young 30's there.
Here, in our district, you will hear the Steps, Traditions, 12 Concepts and The Warranties of Service read out at each meeting.
Then the group will take it in turns to read conference approved literature.
So that takes up 55 minutes of a meeting. You might be lucky to hear a reading from one of our daily readers.
At the point where our local group closed I asked if I could read a reading from Hope For Today.
I was told no- because it was not conference approved.
This MIP group, thank goodness is safe, along the right lines, tolerant and friendly.
...
I came through Alanon, as the only male- for many years. Did not mind this, or even notice, this most of the time.
I was closely aligned with my mum, who has also been to one, or two meetings- when she worked entreatment centres, as a nurse.
In ACA there seem to be about 80% younger women. Quite a lot are also double winners. I also mention our Alanon readers, for adult children - From Survival to Recovery, and Hope for Today. In remoter areas Alanon is still the only group available- and a really good option. :D
I look for the day when all our 12 Step groups work closely together- since we all share members a fair bit.
But especially AA, Alanon and ACA.
The MIP groups were set with love- by John F. and strongly supported by Betty.
... 
...
We are a good example of unity:- and may this always be so!
I'm not sure if it is so, not being an AA but I have heard that Al-Anon is about spiritual maturity. Obviously, if a person is not ready to deal with people in another program that isn't maturity. I often wonder how one alcoholic supports another without al-anon since they are in a friendship relationship with many other alcoholics. No program is superior to another like one person is not superior. The world may see him or her so since they bring something that the world values. What God values is what matters and my God doesn't play favourites. My HP gives out all sorts of gifts to me and to others. Many times i feel small compared to another person and then I remember when I was the one who did something that impressed others and I am a flawed human being. I figure it is only because my HP didn't see a need for me to go down the AA road in this lifetime.
I'd really like to read some of the books our founders read prior to the program as what I have read is very good. It comes down to the spiritual awakening being the beginning again. Some people don't think they have had one but I see differently in that they act differently than when they came in. Perhaps some sneak up on us. <smile>
Nora