Something I perceived as very hurtful happened at an Al-Anon meeting tonight.
Someone who I had known for a few years and come to trust expressed frustration at me for trying to carry out a decision the group had voted on the week before (she herself had been in favor of it last week, but apparently changed her mind at some point), humiliated me by pointing out something I got wrong in front of the group when she could have brought something up privately instead, and then in the group conscience that followed kept tried to make it out like I was the only person who had ever been in favor of this thing (when it was something the whole group had voted on last week).
This person was also my new sponsor, since my old sponsor had recently moved away.
I called my old sponsor in tears right after the meeting, and she has agreed to keep working with me - with all the COVID-19 restrictions right now and meetings being on Zoom, the fact that she's in another city doesn't really matter anyway.
I understand that the person is a double winner (both AA and Al-Anon), and that sometimes this is just how alcoholics behave. And I know other people have had problems with her, and someone even mentioned her "strong personality" to me when I chose her as my new sponsor. But I had never seen this side of this person before (apparently I had never annoyed her before?). It kind of blind-sided me to suddenly see her acting in a way that reminded me so much of my dad. I feel like my relationship with this person has changed forever, because now that I've seen a glimpse of the alcoholic side of her, I will always be scared in my interactions with her of doing anything that might annoy her and make that happen again.
I don't think I feel much resentment. I understand that nobody is perfect, everyone has bad days and sometimes acts in ways we wish we hadn't when we're annoyed. Although I'll admit that part of me does want to let this person know that she hurt me, and is tempted to text her tomorrow to tell her I am going back to my old sponsor (whereas I feel like the low-drama way would be to wait several days to tell her, so it sounds less like it's related to what happened today).
But mostly I just feel hurt. I keep crying when I just want my mind to settle down and let me go to bed. I don't want to feel like this, but I don't know how to let that feeling go.
Freetime said
Apr 4, 2020
Hi Atheos, I'm sorry that happened to you. I know it can be so stressful when someone calls us out personally -- and for no good reason.
What comes to my mind is "pause." Maybe you don't have to make a decision or statement about that sponsor right away. I know for me, when I've been in this situation, talking it out with others outside of the situation -- like you did here on MIP -- has helped me calm down and think more clearly about what to do.
Another thing that has helped me is to write a short statement about the issue on a slip of paper and put it in my God Box.
I hope you got some sleep and are able to feel more peaceful.
Lyne said
Apr 4, 2020
Greetings Atheos-If I had $1 for each time I've been hurt, I would be a very rich person. But that doesn't help your hurt feelings at the moment and I too am sorry this happened to you. We hope to, and deserve to, feel safe at our alanon meetings, but we can't control what others do. And since I live with my A, I can still be exposed to erratic and hostile behavior, even though it is much less often than in the past. We all deserve to be treated with respect all the time. But not everyone can do that. While I read your post and Freetime's, I thought of something my sponsor taught me: QTIP. She said to always carry a QTIP--quit taking it personally. We are all freaked out by the pandemic, and an A has lots of their own issues. Look for the good in you even if she couldn't at that moment in time. We must define who we are and not be codependent on others for that info. It takes a lot of practice. Remember progress not perfection, and keep coming back. Lyne
DavidG said
Apr 4, 2020
Atheos... your share came in last night, our time- and I left it for other members to respond, in the mean time.
I have had a similar experience- part of the reason I am a member of this group.
In theory I groups begin with the incoming member, includes the existing member. Goes with the group
rep. to a district assembly- to conference right to WSO. Okay in theory, but it is progress not perfection.
You might know of Hotrod who was a senior member here, before she passed. We swapped notes a fair
bit and were and to compare what happened in Alanon on NYC, and why happened out here in the
outer islands.
Actually there weren't really many differences. My response was to be a responsible group member
in this group- MIP Alanon- and to play my part- trying to ensure that our group was on an even keel.
Not so hard to do here- because we have seasoned members here; we all work closely together on
group building; holding together our own group conscience.
So some members here might be exiles from F2F groups? For me, anyway, I have used my time here
to get a better foundation, for myself. There are some tough cookies in some of our groups. I might be
coming one myself, LOL... but I fancy that I have a really soft centre! ...
I hope this share makes some sense to you, ma'am!
... ... ...
-- Edited by DavidG on Saturday 4th of April 2020 11:40:16 AM
2HP said
Apr 4, 2020
Three different times in my recovery, I could have written your post.
I did talk to others and reason things out (as you are doing) including a professional counselor. Acceptance was perhaps more difficult than with my original qualifier because my sponsor was in recovery for many years, as she enjoyed reminding me. It took time for me to get over the hurt and perceived hypocrisy.
I did a lot of writing, including resentment inventory because I often felt she should have done better (but that was not true. she would do better if she could do better, that is the truth I was after.) by investigating my thoughts, I could make amends and be freed of the hurt. The process brought to my heart, forgiveness for us both.
she phoned two years later to make amends, but by then it was a non-issue for me and I was pleased to be a friend again. she continues to act superior, sometimes cannot resist "correcting" me or taking a swipe at my religious or political beliefs. lately it is in zoom meetings, it just no longer frightens me. she no longer has the power I had previously given away.
MY ESH is to trust that you are being led, nothing happens by mistake. Ask yourself how this might be spiritually useful, use the inventory steps to see what you can about yourself.
My old belief that "ideal" sponsorship should last forever was proven false more than once. While I am rich to have been given so many different views of our program, Higher Power had other plans to keep me growing. what I had perceived as a personal set-back, turned out to be the next step in my unfoldment.
Have confidence in your Higher Power, still present (((warm hugs)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Saturday 4th of April 2020 12:27:26 PM
-- Edited by 2HP on Saturday 4th of April 2020 01:05:26 PM
JerryF said
Apr 4, 2020
((((Atheos)))) Thanks for Avatar on your post. The manu keiki (child bird) is one of my cultural spirit and I got short presence with one this morning as I stepped up to say welcome and that I was listening to its body language which was humble and innocent. It flew off and left me with yours which for me has always been a powerful spirit when I find myself in situations where my spirit and ego have been pinched. I won't belittle your condition and how it happened only remembering how I use to handle it; with power ego and self righteous indignation and all of the hurtful reactions I knew.
You responded good...program good. It took me much practice and time and belief and trust to be able to do it like you have today. I learned to visualize myself sitting in the palms of my HP and just being silent in rest. I visualize a lot now because that works for me. When I woke this morning first thing I went to visualization and then to the miracles of the literature and some conversation with my wife who is also in our program and then thoughts of our membership with visualization as if I was in a ZOOM group. There is for me no more powerful spiritual therapy so I do it...daily.
Let yourself off the hook. You know and know that you know who Atheos really is. Continue to love her even when you might feel others have stopped. Practice forgiveness for her and yourself as you need. Keep talking to your HP and sponsor and the Manu Keiki and keep coming back. Mahalo for the help. Hugs.
tiredtonite said
Apr 4, 2020
I'm sorry you experienced feelings of hurt and humiliation due to your sponsor repeating your words in front of your group.
It's good news that your old sponsor was available to continue sponsoring you.
From your paragraph that begins "I understand," it doesn't seem the sponsor/sponsee relationship is a good fit.
Although painful, these experiences can always offer us a chance to grow stronger in our recovery. Keep coming back. ((hugs) TT
Bo said
Apr 4, 2020
Being hurt, feeling hurt...is deeper, stronger, bigger, etc., when it comes from someone who "shouldn't" so to speak. One, we "expect" and for some "know" a certain someone wouldn't do that. Two, we "expect" and for some "know" a certain someone shouldn't do that. And, we "expect" and for some "know" that a certain someone couldn't do that. Perhaps more. The clarity is...we expect, we know...and there is the opportunity to look at ourselves. Sure, after that, truly after that, it can be about the certain someone.
I've been going into the rooms of alanon for more than a quarter century...and what I realize, have great awareness and clarity around...is that most people who go to meetings are unhealthy people. Some know it, some don't.
So, how do you let go. For me, letting go is actually easy. In my experience, most people don't or can't let go...ready for this? Because...they don't want to! They say they do, but they really don't. No different than step one. Everyone will tell you that they "accept" they are powerless over alcohol, alcoholism, and the alcoholic. They say it, they get it, they will recite it to you back and forth, up and down. They will repeat it, often for years. However they really don't accept it. Accept it in the way that will allow them to let it go. I don't mean intellectually accept it. I mean accept it to the point where it's innate, and they give up any resistance to it. They surrender. Then, letting go is easy.
How do you let go. One, immerse yourself in acceptance. Complete and total acceptance. Immersed to the point where you no longer feel the need to resist, fight, oppose, try to prevent, fix, control, where you give up your will completely. At that point, two, then comes surrender. Most people don't really don't connect, and don't get present with surrender. Surrender is a completely passive, at peace with what you are accepting state of mind. And, lastly, after the first two are complete... letting go happens naturally. You don't even have to try. It's a conscious mindset, but it happens. It's freeing, it's peaceful.
Ask most people -- when they do the steps -- how long do they spend on step one? It's very telling. Letting go, in my experience, does not happen, cannot happen, without acceptance and surrender. Not real hurt, real pain, real disappointment, real anger, real resentment. That's my experience, and what has always worked for me.
Maresie888 said
Apr 6, 2020
I had a break through of sorts today
The #friend# who I live with is obnoxious. It is 40 degrees here and ge will not out the heat on. I am stuck staying with him because of the Corona virus shut down
I was full of resentment about being put in this situation.
Now I can see this behavior is the worst on himself. He has major health problems
He missed the opportunity to sell his house (the prices will go down now for while).
What he does to himself is far far worse
I am sure you will get there about this person
I am stuck often in places where I want something from someone
I cling into it like a limpet
When I give up that notion I get to another place
I will be out of my friends house soon enough
He has no program to live by
I do.
This was the best decision for me when had to leave my apartment
Now I will be making changes in my life to.make sure I am not uncomfortable again .
Aloha said
Apr 6, 2020
I'm sorry you had to go through this, and thanks for sharing and bringing this up, because I'm pretty sure a lot of us have had experiences similar to this with people we trust and hold in high esteem - sponsors included.
I've had issues come up with my sponsor in the past, too, where her behavior just kind of shocked me. Then I had to remember... she's human, too, and as an Al-Anon member, she's also sick, like me.
Our quibble was over a service situation and we didn't see eye-to-eye on a solution - she even got downright defensive and condescending with me over it and at the time I felt pretty upset and hurt. However, I kept principles before personalities where this one issue was concerned and let it drop because the disagreement had been over a service issue... the "business side" of Al-Anon, as I categorized it... and not over my personal growth in the program working the steps with her. She is still my sponsor and I still consider her an amazing friend, and I actually have yet to ever tell her of that incident bothering me. It's so long ago now, it really doesn't matter to me.
Reading your post reminds me that first and foremost, I'm the one who has the power to hand my happiness over to someone else. When I'm centered, I know other people's behaviors are about them... NOT about me.
Second, I'm reminded that when I am disturbed there's something going on inside of me that could use some looking at. Usually it's always drilled down to fear. Generalizing, it's usually fear of losing something that I think I have or not getting something that I want. My fear at that time with my sponsor was that this disagreement would lead to us not working together. That I'd lose a friend. That things would be awkward between us, etc.
I think you're doing the right thing for right now - especially the pausing and reasoning things out with someone else. I encourage you to really look at your part in the situation, check your motives, etc., make sure your side of the street is clean. Then, if you still feel you need to say something to your sponsor, remember to say what you mean, and mean what you say, but don't say it mean. She's a hurting unit, too - and I'm pretty sure the stress of these current times is pushing a lot of people to behaving in unkind ways at times.
In the long run, you need to do what's comfortable for you when it comes down to who you're going to work with as a sponsor. If you truly feel unsafe with her, then by all means, work with someone else. Life is too short to be working with someone that continually busts your serenity when instead they're supposed to be gently guiding you to maintain serenity.
JerryF said
Apr 6, 2020
Mahalo Aloha for your ESH. For me it is right on. ((((hugs))))
bud said
Apr 7, 2020
Thank you for sharing and your post resonates you've received amazing support from the other posters, and only want to let you know you're not alone & to keep doing what feels like the next right thing.
Something I perceived as very hurtful happened at an Al-Anon meeting tonight.
Someone who I had known for a few years and come to trust expressed frustration at me for trying to carry out a decision the group had voted on the week before (she herself had been in favor of it last week, but apparently changed her mind at some point), humiliated me by pointing out something I got wrong in front of the group when she could have brought something up privately instead, and then in the group conscience that followed kept tried to make it out like I was the only person who had ever been in favor of this thing (when it was something the whole group had voted on last week).
This person was also my new sponsor, since my old sponsor had recently moved away.
I called my old sponsor in tears right after the meeting, and she has agreed to keep working with me - with all the COVID-19 restrictions right now and meetings being on Zoom, the fact that she's in another city doesn't really matter anyway.
I understand that the person is a double winner (both AA and Al-Anon), and that sometimes this is just how alcoholics behave. And I know other people have had problems with her, and someone even mentioned her "strong personality" to me when I chose her as my new sponsor. But I had never seen this side of this person before (apparently I had never annoyed her before?). It kind of blind-sided me to suddenly see her acting in a way that reminded me so much of my dad. I feel like my relationship with this person has changed forever, because now that I've seen a glimpse of the alcoholic side of her, I will always be scared in my interactions with her of doing anything that might annoy her and make that happen again.
I don't think I feel much resentment. I understand that nobody is perfect, everyone has bad days and sometimes acts in ways we wish we hadn't when we're annoyed. Although I'll admit that part of me does want to let this person know that she hurt me, and is tempted to text her tomorrow to tell her I am going back to my old sponsor (whereas I feel like the low-drama way would be to wait several days to tell her, so it sounds less like it's related to what happened today).
But mostly I just feel hurt. I keep crying when I just want my mind to settle down and let me go to bed. I don't want to feel like this, but I don't know how to let that feeling go.
What comes to my mind is "pause." Maybe you don't have to make a decision or statement about that sponsor right away. I know for me, when I've been in this situation, talking it out with others outside of the situation -- like you did here on MIP -- has helped me calm down and think more clearly about what to do.
Another thing that has helped me is to write a short statement about the issue on a slip of paper and put it in my God Box.
I hope you got some sleep and are able to feel more peaceful.
I have had a similar experience- part of the reason I am a member of this group.
In theory I groups begin with the incoming member, includes the existing member. Goes with the group
rep. to a district assembly- to conference right to WSO. Okay in theory, but it is progress not perfection.
You might know of Hotrod who was a senior member here, before she passed. We swapped notes a fair
bit and were and to compare what happened in Alanon on NYC, and why happened out here in the
outer islands.
Actually there weren't really many differences. My response was to be a responsible group member
in this group- MIP Alanon- and to play my part- trying to ensure that our group was on an even keel.
Not so hard to do here- because we have seasoned members here; we all work closely together on
group building; holding together our own group conscience.
So some members here might be exiles from F2F groups? For me, anyway, I have used my time here
to get a better foundation, for myself. There are some tough cookies in some of our groups. I might be
coming one myself, LOL... but I fancy that I have a really soft centre!
...
I hope this share makes some sense to you, ma'am!
-- Edited by DavidG on Saturday 4th of April 2020 11:40:16 AM
Three different times in my recovery, I could have written your post.
I did talk to others and reason things out (as you are doing) including a professional counselor. Acceptance was perhaps more difficult than with my original qualifier because my sponsor was in recovery for many years, as she enjoyed reminding me. It took time for me to get over the hurt and perceived hypocrisy.
I did a lot of writing, including resentment inventory because I often felt she should have done better (but that was not true. she would do better if she could do better, that is the truth I was after.) by investigating my thoughts, I could make amends and be freed of the hurt. The process brought to my heart, forgiveness for us both.
she phoned two years later to make amends, but by then it was a non-issue for me and I was pleased to be a friend again. she continues to act superior, sometimes cannot resist "correcting" me or taking a swipe at my religious or political beliefs. lately it is in zoom meetings, it just no longer frightens me. she no longer has the power I had previously given away.
MY ESH is to trust that you are being led, nothing happens by mistake. Ask yourself how this might be spiritually useful, use the inventory steps to see what you can about yourself.
My old belief that "ideal" sponsorship should last forever was proven false more than once. While I am rich to have been given so many different views of our program, Higher Power had other plans to keep me growing. what I had perceived as a personal set-back, turned out to be the next step in my unfoldment.
Have confidence in your Higher Power, still present (((warm hugs)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Saturday 4th of April 2020 12:27:26 PM
-- Edited by 2HP on Saturday 4th of April 2020 01:05:26 PM
((((Atheos)))) Thanks for Avatar on your post. The manu keiki (child bird) is one of my cultural spirit and I got short presence with one this morning as I stepped up to say welcome and that I was listening to its body language which was humble and innocent. It flew off and left me with yours which for me has always been a powerful spirit when I find myself in situations where my spirit and ego have been pinched. I won't belittle your condition and how it happened only remembering how I use to handle it; with power ego and self righteous indignation and all of the hurtful reactions I knew.
You responded good...program good. It took me much practice and time and belief and trust to be able to do it like you have today. I learned to visualize myself sitting in the palms of my HP and just being silent in rest. I visualize a lot now because that works for me. When I woke this morning first thing I went to visualization and then to the miracles of the literature and some conversation with my wife who is also in our program and then thoughts of our membership with visualization as if I was in a ZOOM group. There is for me no more powerful spiritual therapy so I do it...daily.
Let yourself off the hook. You know and know that you know who Atheos really is. Continue to love her even when you might feel others have stopped. Practice forgiveness for her and yourself as you need. Keep talking to your HP and sponsor and the Manu Keiki and keep coming back. Mahalo for the help. Hugs.
I've been going into the rooms of alanon for more than a quarter century...and what I realize, have great awareness and clarity around...is that most people who go to meetings are unhealthy people. Some know it, some don't.
So, how do you let go. For me, letting go is actually easy. In my experience, most people don't or can't let go...ready for this? Because...they don't want to! They say they do, but they really don't. No different than step one. Everyone will tell you that they "accept" they are powerless over alcohol, alcoholism, and the alcoholic. They say it, they get it, they will recite it to you back and forth, up and down. They will repeat it, often for years. However they really don't accept it. Accept it in the way that will allow them to let it go. I don't mean intellectually accept it. I mean accept it to the point where it's innate, and they give up any resistance to it. They surrender. Then, letting go is easy.
How do you let go. One, immerse yourself in acceptance. Complete and total acceptance. Immersed to the point where you no longer feel the need to resist, fight, oppose, try to prevent, fix, control, where you give up your will completely. At that point, two, then comes surrender. Most people don't really don't connect, and don't get present with surrender. Surrender is a completely passive, at peace with what you are accepting state of mind. And, lastly, after the first two are complete... letting go happens naturally. You don't even have to try. It's a conscious mindset, but it happens. It's freeing, it's peaceful.
Ask most people -- when they do the steps -- how long do they spend on step one? It's very telling. Letting go, in my experience, does not happen, cannot happen, without acceptance and surrender. Not real hurt, real pain, real disappointment, real anger, real resentment. That's my experience, and what has always worked for me.
I've had issues come up with my sponsor in the past, too, where her behavior just kind of shocked me. Then I had to remember... she's human, too, and as an Al-Anon member, she's also sick, like me.
Our quibble was over a service situation and we didn't see eye-to-eye on a solution - she even got downright defensive and condescending with me over it and at the time I felt pretty upset and hurt. However, I kept principles before personalities where this one issue was concerned and let it drop because the disagreement had been over a service issue... the "business side" of Al-Anon, as I categorized it... and not over my personal growth in the program working the steps with her. She is still my sponsor and I still consider her an amazing friend, and I actually have yet to ever tell her of that incident bothering me. It's so long ago now, it really doesn't matter to me.
Reading your post reminds me that first and foremost, I'm the one who has the power to hand my happiness over to someone else. When I'm centered, I know other people's behaviors are about them... NOT about me.
Second, I'm reminded that when I am disturbed there's something going on inside of me that could use some looking at. Usually it's always drilled down to fear. Generalizing, it's usually fear of losing something that I think I have or not getting something that I want. My fear at that time with my sponsor was that this disagreement would lead to us not working together. That I'd lose a friend. That things would be awkward between us, etc.
I think you're doing the right thing for right now - especially the pausing and reasoning things out with someone else. I encourage you to really look at your part in the situation, check your motives, etc., make sure your side of the street is clean. Then, if you still feel you need to say something to your sponsor, remember to say what you mean, and mean what you say, but don't say it mean. She's a hurting unit, too - and I'm pretty sure the stress of these current times is pushing a lot of people to behaving in unkind ways at times.
In the long run, you need to do what's comfortable for you when it comes down to who you're going to work with as a sponsor. If you truly feel unsafe with her, then by all means, work with someone else. Life is too short to be working with someone that continually busts your serenity when instead they're supposed to be gently guiding you to maintain serenity.
Mahalo Aloha for your ESH. For me it is right on. ((((hugs))))