I made direct amends early on. I surmised- that in the early months of AA new members would "do the steps" as soon as they were de-toxed. To help burn the boats and bridges back to the drinking culture.
Today my own amends are more on a Step 10 basis.
i had difficulty, initially explaining what Alanon was and why I was doing the rounds saying sorry about things. Hard enough to explain what Alanon was and why I was here. So I decided- one day at a time- to look for opportunities to make amends, or to demonstrate contrition [sorrys] when the opportunity arose. And I think this habit leads to step 10.
This Saturday I called our youngest daughter- just for a chat and to say hi to the kids. Is. was slightly taken aback- and mumbled something about my not being able to communicate so well. But we had a good chat, and a catch-up.
Flash back to her age 16. She asked for a driving lesson- but used most of the time to unload to me. She had been watching Dr. Phil on Tv and said that parents who didn't get on were better off parting- to give their kids a break. I recalled the time when I used to drive the family into town [we took turns]. We would come down the hill onto the road and my SO would scream and yell at me- for not looking left and right. That is how her dad taught her to drive. We sorted this one out in recent times. Fact is- we lived on a hill- and I could see the road for 2 km both north and south. And I know well ahead of the intersection if there were any cars on the road. A quick look, for me, before I turned out of our drive. Mabe the difference between a city and a rural culture?
I knew what was happening in pour relationship- and did not argue with Is. at that time I listened and heeded.
Flashback to her age 4. She was sitting on my knee... saddening she reached up and grabbed my chin. Whut? I thought to myself. She held my chin, and pulled my head around so that I was making eye contact with her! Out of the mouth of babes!
I can be kind to myself, without being selfish or self centred. To take care of me... to establish and maintain my own boundaries. Alanon gave me starters in all of this stuff. It made me aware of what I was up against.
Paddy, aged 6, is in the school choir- something I have always done. Is. was proud to tell me this.
Thanks for the share... ...
Sunny Sunday coming up here- going to the coast tomorrow early... ...
Temple said
Feb 8, 2020
Lovely share, David.
Thank you.
Temple
hotrod said
Feb 8, 2020
Thanks David Your honesty is inspiring
DavidG said
Feb 10, 2020
I am giving group related issues a bye- at the moment- while we wait- to see how thongs are going for you, Betty.
I was a horse person, as a kid- and never thought I would one be talking to people from different countries, using a blimmin typewriter...
This week is hot here- and I am camping out in a tent. We bought a seaside home 15 years ago- and rent it out. But in needs constant maintenance as it was originally built out of bits and pieces.
The sea is a mile away, tho' he commanding views from here are gr8. The main trunk line literally runs up through the bottom of the yard.
I suppose the attraction here was the fact that I worked here on a railway gang in the 1970's.
The property is steep and runs 5 sheep- bought in to keep the weeds at bay!
I am staying in a tent for now- as the weather is so nice. Saving on backpackers rent in the city 20 km away.
So I shan't be needing an alarm clock on the morning- or at 3 a.m.
Living and working on orchards most of may life I never learned to take holidays, really. Because harvesting and holidays coincided.
So painting by day, and sitting outside my tent playing "Blown in the Wind". Or one of the three new songs I have learned so far!
I liked it that Lois and Bill travelled, and lived all over on a tent, after the Great Depression of 1929. A part of their life- I am sure they always remembered and relished!
These were always my role models- and for two or three days I hope to follow in their footsteps...
...hoping, Betty- that as you are reading this you are feeling well, and hopeful:
prayers, and blessings...
DavidG.
Bo said
Feb 10, 2020
In my experience, the making amends to kids is broken down into two parts -- making amends, and then the fact that it is to kids. Many people collapse and confuse making amends as an apology. They are not always one in the same. Making amends does not have to be a formal apology, and even if it is, what an apology is to certain people may be something different to others.
The "to children" aspect is where this can get difficult. Depending on the circumstances, children may or may not have an expectation. They may feel that certain things need to be "fixed" and someone has to make amends for certain, specific things. However, making amends is not about the recipient. It is about the person who is making amends. Once, I was making amends to my ex, and at the end of the discussion, after I said what I wanted to say -- she also "requested" and "suggested" I "make amends" and "apologize" for several other specific actions that I had taken. I listened carefully, I clarified what it was she was saying. I reviewed each of the actions -- each of the things she felt I was "guilty" of -- and a very interesting dynamic came to light. Yes, there were several instances, several things she felt I did, that, as a result -- I was "guilty" of. She didn't like the results, so she concluded that I was guilty of doing something wrong, something heinous in her mind. She felt that as a result of my actions, one of her children further spiraled out of control and graduated from marijuana to oxycodone ("roxys" and oxycotin et al) and then to heroin. She felt that his being in jail was a result of "being abandoned" by me. Now, while this couldn't be further from the truth, I absolutely found it very normal and typical that she neglected all of the major variables that she was responsible for that played a major part in that outcome. I actually had zero to do with it. But that's OK. I get it. Her son ending up where he did had a lot to do with her, her decisions, her actions, etc. and of course him -- but in order to feel OK about everything, she had to have someone to blame...and that was me. I get that. She did some very bad and very wrong things. She was in denial. She couldn't face any of it. So, she shifts, deflects, and distracts, and the blame goes to me, so she is OK with it. So be it.
Anyway, after hearing her "case" so to speak, I thought about it, and I politely and respectfully explained that we had different feelings, opinions, and perspectives on what happened, how it happened, why it happened, and so on. Yes, I found a nice way of diffusing the discussion and not accepting blame and not laying blame. She kept going. And going. And going. I did finally have to include the phrase "I am sorry you feel that way" along with my other diplomatic portrayal of what I was saying. When I wouldn't "admit" and "engage" with her -- she finally said, "Well, I am glad you understand and you are finally accepting responsibility for everything, and you apologized".
Right or wrong, I did say to her, let me clarify, and be very clear, I understand what you feel, how you feel, and why you feel the way you do -- BUT -- I did not and I am not apologizing for any of those things you are saying (about your son and where he ended up in his life). Why I said that is not important. Right or wrong doesn't matter. I did what I felt was right, best, and healthy for me. She chooses to tell everyone it is my fault, and that's OK. What other people believe -- and if they believe her -- is not my concern. I have thought zero about it -- truly not one thought -- in years. It means nothing to me. I am OK, and that's what counts. Because of all this -- my amends were dismissed, not accepted, etc. So be it. Making amends was about me, my outcome, my result...not about whether the person accepted or not, whether they agreed or not, whether it was good enough for them or not, whether my amends were enough or not. It's not about the labeled success...it is about the action...that I did it.
Bo said
Feb 10, 2020
With children, there is another aspect to it. The age of the child, what the child can understand, comprehend, their experience, everything! So much goes into that.
I made amends to my daughter when she was 13, 15, 16, 17, and every year thereafter, right up to today and she is 24. Making amends is not a one-time isolated transaction so to speak. It's who you are being. How you live your life.
Freetime said
Feb 10, 2020
Bo, this is also how I have come to see amends.
Making amends is not a one-time isolated transaction so to speak. It's who you are being. How you live your life.
I think often about amends to my grown children. As Al-Anon says, changed attitudes can aid recovery, so I try to always interact with my children based on my new attitudes.
Thank you, David, for this topic.
Bo said
Feb 10, 2020
Changed attitudes can aid recovery...YES...if we change our attitude, it can aid our recovery.
Unfortunately, short-cuts, cheating, cutting corners, glossing over, rushing, whatever people do with their recovery...hurts them. To each their own. So be it. Take what we like and we leave the rest. Thanks Freetime.
Today my own amends are more on a Step 10 basis.
i had difficulty, initially explaining what Alanon was and why I was doing the rounds saying sorry about things. Hard enough to explain what Alanon was and why I was here. So I decided- one day at a time- to look for opportunities to make amends, or to demonstrate contrition [sorrys] when the opportunity arose. And I think this habit leads to step 10.
This Saturday I called our youngest daughter- just for a chat and to say hi to the kids. Is. was slightly taken aback- and mumbled something about my not being able to communicate so well. But we had a good chat, and a catch-up.
Flash back to her age 16. She asked for a driving lesson- but used most of the time to unload to me. She had been watching Dr. Phil on Tv and said that parents who didn't get on were better off parting- to give their kids a break. I recalled the time when I used to drive the family into town [we took turns]. We would come down the hill onto the road and my SO would scream and yell at me- for not looking left and right. That is how her dad taught her to drive. We sorted this one out in recent times. Fact is- we lived on a hill- and I could see the road for 2 km both north and south. And I know well ahead of the intersection if there were any cars on the road. A quick look, for me, before I turned out of our drive. Mabe the difference between a city and a rural culture?
I knew what was happening in pour relationship- and did not argue with Is. at that time I listened and heeded.
Flashback to her age 4. She was sitting on my knee... saddening she reached up and grabbed my chin. Whut? I thought to myself. She held my chin, and pulled my head around so that I was making eye contact with her! Out of the mouth of babes!
I can be kind to myself, without being selfish or self centred. To take care of me... to establish and maintain my own boundaries. Alanon gave me starters in all of this stuff. It made me aware of what I was up against.
Paddy, aged 6, is in the school choir- something I have always done. Is. was proud to tell me this.
Sunny Sunday coming up here- going to the coast tomorrow early...
...
Thank you.
Temple
I am giving group related issues a bye- at the moment- while we wait- to see how thongs are going for you, Betty.
I was a horse person, as a kid- and never thought I would one be talking to people from different countries, using a blimmin typewriter...
This week is hot here- and I am camping out in a tent. We bought a seaside home 15 years ago- and rent it out. But in needs constant maintenance as it was originally built out of bits and pieces.
The sea is a mile away, tho' he commanding views from here are gr8. The main trunk line literally runs up through the bottom of the yard.
I suppose the attraction here was the fact that I worked here on a railway gang in the 1970's.
The property is steep and runs 5 sheep- bought in to keep the weeds at bay!
I am staying in a tent for now- as the weather is so nice. Saving on backpackers rent in the city 20 km away.
So I shan't be needing an alarm clock on the morning- or at 3 a.m.
Living and working on orchards most of may life I never learned to take holidays, really. Because harvesting and holidays coincided.
So painting by day, and sitting outside my tent playing "Blown in the Wind". Or one of the three new songs I have learned so far!
I liked it that Lois and Bill travelled, and lived all over on a tent, after the Great Depression of 1929. A part of their life- I am sure they always remembered and relished!
These were always my role models- and for two or three days I hope to follow in their footsteps...
...hoping, Betty- that as you are reading this you are feeling well, and hopeful:
prayers, and blessings...
DavidG.
The "to children" aspect is where this can get difficult. Depending on the circumstances, children may or may not have an expectation. They may feel that certain things need to be "fixed" and someone has to make amends for certain, specific things. However, making amends is not about the recipient. It is about the person who is making amends. Once, I was making amends to my ex, and at the end of the discussion, after I said what I wanted to say -- she also "requested" and "suggested" I "make amends" and "apologize" for several other specific actions that I had taken. I listened carefully, I clarified what it was she was saying. I reviewed each of the actions -- each of the things she felt I was "guilty" of -- and a very interesting dynamic came to light. Yes, there were several instances, several things she felt I did, that, as a result -- I was "guilty" of. She didn't like the results, so she concluded that I was guilty of doing something wrong, something heinous in her mind. She felt that as a result of my actions, one of her children further spiraled out of control and graduated from marijuana to oxycodone ("roxys" and oxycotin et al) and then to heroin. She felt that his being in jail was a result of "being abandoned" by me. Now, while this couldn't be further from the truth, I absolutely found it very normal and typical that she neglected all of the major variables that she was responsible for that played a major part in that outcome. I actually had zero to do with it. But that's OK. I get it. Her son ending up where he did had a lot to do with her, her decisions, her actions, etc. and of course him -- but in order to feel OK about everything, she had to have someone to blame...and that was me. I get that. She did some very bad and very wrong things. She was in denial. She couldn't face any of it. So, she shifts, deflects, and distracts, and the blame goes to me, so she is OK with it. So be it.
Anyway, after hearing her "case" so to speak, I thought about it, and I politely and respectfully explained that we had different feelings, opinions, and perspectives on what happened, how it happened, why it happened, and so on. Yes, I found a nice way of diffusing the discussion and not accepting blame and not laying blame. She kept going. And going. And going. I did finally have to include the phrase "I am sorry you feel that way" along with my other diplomatic portrayal of what I was saying. When I wouldn't "admit" and "engage" with her -- she finally said, "Well, I am glad you understand and you are finally accepting responsibility for everything, and you apologized".
Right or wrong, I did say to her, let me clarify, and be very clear, I understand what you feel, how you feel, and why you feel the way you do -- BUT -- I did not and I am not apologizing for any of those things you are saying (about your son and where he ended up in his life). Why I said that is not important. Right or wrong doesn't matter. I did what I felt was right, best, and healthy for me. She chooses to tell everyone it is my fault, and that's OK. What other people believe -- and if they believe her -- is not my concern. I have thought zero about it -- truly not one thought -- in years. It means nothing to me. I am OK, and that's what counts. Because of all this -- my amends were dismissed, not accepted, etc. So be it. Making amends was about me, my outcome, my result...not about whether the person accepted or not, whether they agreed or not, whether it was good enough for them or not, whether my amends were enough or not. It's not about the labeled success...it is about the action...that I did it.
I made amends to my daughter when she was 13, 15, 16, 17, and every year thereafter, right up to today and she is 24. Making amends is not a one-time isolated transaction so to speak. It's who you are being. How you live your life.
Bo, this is also how I have come to see amends.
I think often about amends to my grown children. As Al-Anon says, changed attitudes can aid recovery, so I try to always interact with my children based on my new attitudes.
Thank you, David, for this topic.
Unfortunately, short-cuts, cheating, cutting corners, glossing over, rushing, whatever people do with their recovery...hurts them. To each their own. So be it. Take what we like and we leave the rest. Thanks Freetime.