Do you need to "do" or "work" the steps? Why? How?
Bo said
Jan 3, 2020
Mysterious title? LOL. Well, what I really wanted to throw out there is not just how the steps work, but more, what do they represent, what can they mean. I don't take any position on whether or not a person should do or work the steps. I did. I do. Every day. But that's me. My choice. I do think as far as an explanation as to how the steps and alanon works -- as a program -- is sometimes considered a mystery. Is it re-learning, re-programming, or something of the like? Whatever it is...as we all know it to be...it works!!! That said, how do the steps work as a practical application -- that, in my experience, is what recovery is all about...and to each their own. Everyone's recovery can be, can look, and could be different though. While I don't know if it has to look like a formal process of doing the steps, in some form or another -- recovery involves the steps. The steps are action items. Doing something. Making change. That is all part of recovery. Some people incorporate the 12 steps into their lives daily. For others it becomes innate. Some concentrate and focus on certain steps. Some do....whatever it is. Different for each and every person perhaps.
So, that being said -- what do the steps mean? I've heard different portrayals about the steps -- the first four steps were about getting your life back, the next four steps were about maintaining your life, and the last four steps were about living your life.
I've heard the first four steps are about restoring your life, the next four steps are about repairing your life, and the last four steps are about how to live your life.
I've found many of these portrayals very insightful, interesting, and representative of one's recovery.
What have you heard about the steps? Any portrayals? The first 3, the first 4, the next 3 or 4, and so on. Thank you in advance.
DavidG said
Jan 3, 2020
Good topic Bo. And i see SRUs is raising a topic too- in the thread above.
My hometown group fell over 4 or 5 years ago- and that is part of the reason why I am here. I recall- a member then quoting this akronym: NUTS.
Not Using The Steps. This acronym is not conference approved. Not the end of the world. But the way the steps and traditions were being applied- I found to be rigid and destructive... ...and as a consequence we lost the group.
I am NOT saying that anything goes in Alanon, or any group of family members. Far from it.
It is heartening to see two members of this forum raising issues. Conscience issues, really. Which can be considered and discussed. ...
hotrod said
Jan 3, 2020
For me the Steps have been my salvation. i rediscovered my faith in HP, became honest with myelf stopped blaming others for my MISERY. BECAME HONEST wITH MYSELF AND OTHERs. i decided long ago that aalnon tools such as the steps, slogans, and meetings would become my life principles and they have, I need To keep cominG back in order to keep them fresh. i believe that the membeRS OF this gROUP do keep to alAnon principles regardless of THE WS CONNECTION.
Bo said
Jan 3, 2020
So, David, have you ever heard the steps put into categories? Like I said, the first 3, the next 3, the next, and the last? Or the first 4, the next 4, and the last 4?
Thanks.
Bo said
Jan 3, 2020
I agree Betty. Completely. For me the steps have become, innately, a "curriculum for living" and it's how I live my life.
Kind of like when at a decision point, a juncture, or reaction -- my always question is -- who do I want my daughter to see?
So have you ever heard the steps grouped together or categorized as I described?
Bo said
Jan 3, 2020
David, I love the "Not using the Steps" slogan.
By the way David, as an aside, I didn't think I was raising an "issue" here. I simply thought I was throwing out a topic -- one that could be very insightful and beneficial. If others don't think so, so be it. That's part of the take what you like and leave the rest. It's a topic. Plain and simple. That was my intention.
As far as the group conscience discussion, if that happens, great. However, for a variety of reasons, I see a group conscience here, in this forum, as having very little to no integrity in the process or substance itself. Just my opinion. However, again, if it happens, that's great.
DavidG said
Jan 3, 2020
Bo wrote:
So, David, have you ever heard the steps put into categories? Like I said, the first 3, the next 3, the next, and the last? Or the first 4, the next 4, and the last 4?
Thanks.
Yes I have, Bo... all summed up..
I believe that it might be better is people did steps 1, 2, 3 inside of the group. Even before getting a sponsor. Just a hunch... to get started...
Steps 1 thru 3 ...please...
Steps 4 thru 9 ...sorry...
steps 10 thru 12 ...thanks...
The strength of this group- Miracles In Progress Alanon... is that we mostly all have great group experience- and when we compare notes here- this draws on the strengths... ...
Bo said
Jan 3, 2020
Love that!!! Cool. Please, sorry, and thanks!!!
Thanks David!
Bo said
Jan 3, 2020
By the way, I agree re steps 1, 2, and 3.
Where I live some of the beginners' meetings focus only on steps one, two, and three -- not as steps and doing them -- but more conversationally, about acceptance, this being a disease, being powerless, focusing on yourself, not enabling, detaching, and so on. Just about the changes you can make in steps 1, 2, and 3.
DavidG said
Jan 3, 2020
We are on the same page, Bo... right from the get-go- this is a suggested program... we take what we like and leave the rest!
Our groups here, in this part of the world are tiny! I really warmed to IAm's model of meetings- where groups are getting 30 or
40 members to a meeting... and this was based on her own experience ... ...
Bo said
Jan 3, 2020
The men's meeting I attend was started just 8 years ago. The very first meeting had 20 men, it decreased a bit when the so called novelty wore off, but it was always between 12 and 15...and today averages between 20 and 25.
My second home group meeting averages between 60 and 80 people. Another meeting I attend averages between 40 and 60.
So, our we have four or so meetings a week here which average between 40 and 80. Then we have many that average between 10 and 30.
And a few average around 10.
We are blessed -- including beginners meetings, step meetings, and regular meetings, we have about 45 meetings every week here where I live.
DavidG said
Jan 3, 2020
Seeing this size of this meetings- I can see the need for a sponsor- from the get-go... just to get a chance to share! ...
Bo said
Jan 3, 2020
I remember hearing a gentleman speak at an alanon anniversary meeting. He was the AA speaker. His review of the first three steps were as follows:
1) Step one...you're screwed. 2) Step two...maybe not so much. 3) Step three...someone or something other than yourself can help you. 4) Step four...you've got a lot of work to do.
I loved that.
-- Edited by Bo on Friday 3rd of January 2020 08:09:53 PM
Bo said
Jan 5, 2020
While Russell Brand has his own version of the 12 steps...I heard someone give a more "gentle" version...
Step one...you are hopeless, helpless, and are ready to change.
Step two...you believe that you don't have to be that way.
Step three....you believe that you can't fix this, and something or someone else can.
Step four...get ready, you have a lot of work to do.
Bo said
Jan 5, 2020
The first four steps are about doing work, getting your life back.
The next four steps are about getting better.
The next four steps are about living your life.
JerryF said
Jan 5, 2020
My life has been rejuvenated by the steps and then with constant practice redefined. I've kept what I liked and what worked and changed the rest. HP walks and talks with me and so far agrees with how I have come out. (((hugs)))
DavidG said
Jan 5, 2020
For me, the steps have to be practical.
The steps, coupled with perfectionism- could be hazardous, maybe, especially for other people?
el-cee said
Jan 5, 2020
Steps 1 to 3 giving up.
Steps 4 to 6 owning up steps 7 to 9 making up steps 10 to 12 keeping up.
I agree these are the program. That's it.
DavidG said
Jan 5, 2020
Good summation, El-cee...
Bo said
Jan 5, 2020
el-cee wrote:
Steps 1 to 3 giving up. Steps 4 to 6 owning up steps 7 to 9 making up steps 10 to 12 keeping up. I agree these are the program. That's it.
Love it!!! Absolutely love it!!! Thank you very much!!!
What a great portrayal of the 12 steps!!!
DavidG said
Jan 9, 2020
Just a thought- personal opinion... in the early days of AA- there were no steps, as such.They were formalised later. I felt that once a member had dried out- they were encouraged to go out- and burn their bridges back to the bars and old associations.
So the steps help to fulfil this purpose. How this translates back to family members is a completely different matter.
I am still getting my head around some of this... refining things I have already done, or tried...
Bo said
Jan 9, 2020
I hear you David. For me it's very much about the perspective of the steps...what perspective are you reading them and looking at them from, what orientation, what lenses are you looking through. It is also very much about the context...once I am clear, and focused, on the context...then the content becomes perfectly clear.
One of the amazing things I always felt and experienced with the steps -- and people's recovery -- is that each one is different. Everyone reads the same steps in alanon. What they mean to you, how you work them, use them, what you take from them, and so much more...is different with each person. As such, I love hearing all of the different perspectives that come from all of that. It helps me improve, as a person, it helps me practice these principles -- better, more effectively -- in all my affairs.
As you know, I am not an alcoholic, nor am I in AA, so my recovery, my experience, my perspective, is that of alanon. Just alanon. I attend open AA meetings, and AA anniversary meetings, and I find it inspiring, touching, and moving, when I hear the AA perspective. The same applies to the steps, and again, that's just me.
Thanks David. All the best.
Bo said
Jan 10, 2020
DavidG wrote:
Seeing this size of this meetings- I can see the need for a sponsor- from the get-go... just to get a chance to share! ...
Actually David, everybody gets to share, if they want to. After the opening of the meeting, business, etc., and then, after the topic is given...they break up into small groups. Some meetings don't, and then, like you said, as many share as the time permits.
Bo said
Jan 10, 2020
David, here's the language from one of the meetings I attend...
"A word to AA members who are new to Al-Anon. If you have a family problem, you have come to the right place and we welcome you. We speak from our experiences which are derived living with an alcoholic rather than being one. It is a different experience which calls for a different interpretation of the 12 steps. We ask that you start out by listening to the suggested solutions based upon the Al-Anon approach to the family illness. We ask that members of other anonymous fellowships remain anonymous and focus on the Al-Anon program. If you are not a newcomer, it is important to remember that when we share, we keep the newcomer in mind, so that we may give them the hope and courage they need to keep coming back. The group has found over time that what is most helpful is to simply share our experiences, strengths, and hope with each other."
For me, my experience, this is my focus, perspective, etc.
I think the steps -- even with just one word being different -- come from and live in a very different place.
Just me.
Bo said
Jan 10, 2020
David, just to be clear, I don't have any issues with anyone. As I've said, I attend open AA meetings, AA anniversary meetings, etc. -- and I enjoy them tremendously. I am touched, moved, and inspired, and I've learned a great deal... in part...BECAUSE...it is a difference perspective. I don't use the word perspective to mean opinion. I mean different point of view, difference lenses...and like the language says...different for me living with an alcoholic rather than being one.
If someone else sees them the same, so be it. I simply disagree. But, then again, the BB police may say otherwise. So be it seems to not be good enough for some, LOL.
As far as who plays what role for group rep and all that...I don't care. I share my feelings, my opinion, and I share it without any desire or motivation to be right. That is long in the past. Such pettiness is not important to me.
That said, I am sure the BB police, the passive aggressive vocal minority, and the hecklers, will have lots to say. It's entertaining reading.
All the best.
Debb said
Jan 13, 2020
I shared this with David and as well with you now. I find referring to the steps individually more straight forward so that I can see what each step represents.
(1) I Can't;
(2) God Can;
(3) Let God;
(4) Look Within;
(5) Admit Wrongs;
(6) Ready Self For Change;
(7) Seek God's Help;
(8) Become Willing;
(9) Make Amends;
(10) Daily Inventory;
(11) Pray and Meditate;
(12) Give It Away.
Mysterious title? LOL. Well, what I really wanted to throw out there is not just how the steps work, but more, what do they represent, what can they mean. I don't take any position on whether or not a person should do or work the steps. I did. I do. Every day. But that's me. My choice. I do think as far as an explanation as to how the steps and alanon works -- as a program -- is sometimes considered a mystery. Is it re-learning, re-programming, or something of the like? Whatever it is...as we all know it to be...it works!!! That said, how do the steps work as a practical application -- that, in my experience, is what recovery is all about...and to each their own. Everyone's recovery can be, can look, and could be different though. While I don't know if it has to look like a formal process of doing the steps, in some form or another -- recovery involves the steps. The steps are action items. Doing something. Making change. That is all part of recovery. Some people incorporate the 12 steps into their lives daily. For others it becomes innate. Some concentrate and focus on certain steps. Some do....whatever it is. Different for each and every person perhaps.
So, that being said -- what do the steps mean? I've heard different portrayals about the steps -- the first four steps were about getting your life back, the next four steps were about maintaining your life, and the last four steps were about living your life.
I've heard the first four steps are about restoring your life, the next four steps are about repairing your life, and the last four steps are about how to live your life.
I've found many of these portrayals very insightful, interesting, and representative of one's recovery.
What have you heard about the steps? Any portrayals? The first 3, the first 4, the next 3 or 4, and so on. Thank you in advance.
Good topic Bo. And i see SRUs is raising a topic too- in the thread above.
My hometown group fell over 4 or 5 years ago- and that is part of the reason why I am here. I recall- a member then quoting this akronym: NUTS.
Not Using The Steps. This acronym is not conference approved. Not the end of the world. But the way the steps and traditions were being applied- I found to be rigid and destructive... ...and as a consequence we lost the group.
I am NOT saying that anything goes in Alanon, or any group of family members. Far from it.
It is heartening to see two members of this forum raising issues. Conscience issues, really. Which can be considered and discussed.
...
For me the Steps have been my salvation. i rediscovered my faith in HP, became honest with myelf stopped blaming others for my MISERY. BECAME HONEST wITH MYSELF AND OTHERs. i decided long ago that aalnon tools such as the steps, slogans, and meetings would become my life principles and they have, I need To keep cominG back in order to keep them fresh.
i believe that the membeRS OF this gROUP do keep to alAnon principles regardless of THE WS CONNECTION.
Thanks.
Kind of like when at a decision point, a juncture, or reaction -- my always question is -- who do I want my daughter to see?
So have you ever heard the steps grouped together or categorized as I described?
David, I love the "Not using the Steps" slogan.
By the way David, as an aside, I didn't think I was raising an "issue" here. I simply thought I was throwing out a topic -- one that could be very insightful and beneficial. If others don't think so, so be it. That's part of the take what you like and leave the rest. It's a topic. Plain and simple. That was my intention.
As far as the group conscience discussion, if that happens, great. However, for a variety of reasons, I see a group conscience here, in this forum, as having very little to no integrity in the process or substance itself. Just my opinion. However, again, if it happens, that's great.
Yes I have, Bo... all summed up..
I believe that it might be better is people did steps 1, 2, 3 inside of the group. Even before getting a sponsor. Just a hunch... to get started...
Steps 1 thru 3 ...please...
Steps 4 thru 9 ...sorry...
steps 10 thru 12 ...thanks...
The strength of this group- Miracles In Progress Alanon... is that we mostly all have great group experience- and when we compare notes here- this draws on the strengths...
...
Thanks David!
Where I live some of the beginners' meetings focus only on steps one, two, and three -- not as steps and doing them -- but more conversationally, about acceptance, this being a disease, being powerless, focusing on yourself, not enabling, detaching, and so on. Just about the changes you can make in steps 1, 2, and 3.
Our groups here, in this part of the world are tiny! I really warmed to IAm's model of meetings- where groups are getting 30 or
40 members to a meeting... and this was based on her own experience ...
...
My second home group meeting averages between 60 and 80 people. Another meeting I attend averages between 40 and 60.
So, our we have four or so meetings a week here which average between 40 and 80. Then we have many that average between 10 and 30.
And a few average around 10.
We are blessed -- including beginners meetings, step meetings, and regular meetings, we have about 45 meetings every week here where I live.
I remember hearing a gentleman speak at an alanon anniversary meeting. He was the AA speaker. His review of the first three steps were as follows:
1) Step one...you're screwed.
2) Step two...maybe not so much.
3) Step three...someone or something other than yourself can help you.
4) Step four...you've got a lot of work to do.
I loved that.
-- Edited by Bo on Friday 3rd of January 2020 08:09:53 PM
Step one...you are hopeless, helpless, and are ready to change.
Step two...you believe that you don't have to be that way.
Step three....you believe that you can't fix this, and something or someone else can.
Step four...get ready, you have a lot of work to do.
The next four steps are about getting better.
The next four steps are about living your life.
My life has been rejuvenated by the steps and then with constant practice redefined. I've kept what I liked and what worked and changed the rest. HP walks and talks with me and so far agrees with how I have come out. (((hugs)))
The steps, coupled with perfectionism- could be hazardous, maybe, especially for other people?
Love it!!! Absolutely love it!!! Thank you very much!!!
What a great portrayal of the 12 steps!!!
Just a thought- personal opinion... in the early days of AA- there were no steps, as such.They were formalised later. I felt that once a member had dried out- they were encouraged to go out- and burn their bridges back to the bars and old associations.
So the steps help to fulfil this purpose. How this translates back to family members is a completely different matter.
I am still getting my head around some of this... refining things I have already done, or tried...
One of the amazing things I always felt and experienced with the steps -- and people's recovery -- is that each one is different. Everyone reads the same steps in alanon. What they mean to you, how you work them, use them, what you take from them, and so much more...is different with each person. As such, I love hearing all of the different perspectives that come from all of that. It helps me improve, as a person, it helps me practice these principles -- better, more effectively -- in all my affairs.
As you know, I am not an alcoholic, nor am I in AA, so my recovery, my experience, my perspective, is that of alanon. Just alanon. I attend open AA meetings, and AA anniversary meetings, and I find it inspiring, touching, and moving, when I hear the AA perspective. The same applies to the steps, and again, that's just me.
Thanks David. All the best.
Actually David, everybody gets to share, if they want to. After the opening of the meeting, business, etc., and then, after the topic is given...they break up into small groups. Some meetings don't, and then, like you said, as many share as the time permits.
David, here's the language from one of the meetings I attend...
"A word to AA members who are new to Al-Anon. If you have a family problem, you have come to the right place and we welcome you. We speak from our experiences which are derived living with an alcoholic rather than being one. It is a different experience which calls for a different interpretation of the 12 steps. We ask that you start out by listening to the suggested solutions based upon the Al-Anon approach to the family illness. We ask that members of other anonymous fellowships remain anonymous and focus on the Al-Anon program. If you are not a newcomer, it is important to remember that when we share, we keep the newcomer in mind, so that we may give them the hope and courage they need to keep coming back. The group has found over time that what is most helpful is to simply share our experiences, strengths, and hope with each other."
For me, my experience, this is my focus, perspective, etc.
I think the steps -- even with just one word being different -- come from and live in a very different place.
Just me.
If someone else sees them the same, so be it. I simply disagree. But, then again, the BB police may say otherwise. So be it seems to not be good enough for some, LOL.
As far as who plays what role for group rep and all that...I don't care. I share my feelings, my opinion, and I share it without any desire or motivation to be right. That is long in the past. Such pettiness is not important to me.
That said, I am sure the BB police, the passive aggressive vocal minority, and the hecklers, will have lots to say. It's entertaining reading.
All the best.
(1) I Can't;
(2) God Can;
(3) Let God;
(4) Look Within;
(5) Admit Wrongs;
(6) Ready Self For Change;
(7) Seek God's Help;
(8) Become Willing;
(9) Make Amends;
(10) Daily Inventory;
(11) Pray and Meditate;
(12) Give It Away.
Blessings!