Hi, all, and happy holidays to you. As ever, I am so grateful for this group. I dont post often, but get much support from just reading.
i dont have a lot of contact with my ex AH these days but we have a young adult daughter on the autism spectrum who lives with me. He lives in the same town, 5 minutes away. When he and I do have contact, its around her. Things are civil but I need to keep the boundaries or he asks me to do caretaking things for him and that is not something I want to do.
But it is so hard seeing him sink into a very deep and essentially non-functional hole. He lives alone:his girlfriend broke up with him after he went to rehab and then relapsed. He plummeted into deep depression and some months ago I coped with him calling to tell me he was going to kill himself, he had a plan, etc. He wanted me to go over to his house. I said suicide talk was a serious thing, he needed help I couldnt provide, and I called 911.
I know he sees his dr (who used to be my dr too) and I know the dr knows of his drinking.
Ex AH has not seen our daughter since before thanksgiving, says hes not up to it. Yesterday he called me to address an issue with her cell phone, which is on his plan. And as we talked he said
- He is suffering from such bad anxiety that he starts each day with a panic attack and has to have a shot of vodka to calm down, which he follows with prescribed Ativan. Does this every day
- he is lethargic and without interest every day and spends most of every day in bed
- he has such bad neck and back pain that he cannot walk or do much for very long. He realizes this is likely muscle atrophy from months of living like this but suspects a mysterious illness which dr has as yet been unable to diagnose despite lots of testing
- he has not had clean clothes for 5 months, as his landlord removed the water and dryer when washer malfunctioned, and although he has hook up and he can replace them, he has not felt up to buying a washer and dryer and cannot summon the energy to go to a laundromat
- he drinks an ensure drink every day and sometimes eats something for dinner but mostly has no appetite and no interest in eating
- he has fallen twice in his home since Halloween, both resulting in bloody head injuries that required stitches at the ER. with one of those, he has no memory at all of event but woke up in the morning in our daughters bedroom (She used to visit him there and has a room there), wearing a different shirt, very bloody with cut head, and lots of blood stains on rug on stairs.
All of this is so sad and dire. 18 months ago he was functional, with a good job and seeming to maintain basic function, although was drinking and using Xanax or Ativan. I know from his brother and sister in law, with whom I have a good relationship, that he declined going to any family holiday get togethers even tho they offered to pick him up, etc, and then they had something to drop off to him, he would not open the door to them and had them leave things on his porch.
part of me wants to let his dr know what he has told me, as dr may not know about simultaneous use of vodka and Ativan As well as extent of his dysfunction. But I know hes not my responsibility. I think Dr likely knows and Ex AH does what he does regardless of what dr tells him.
I also know from 20 years of marriage that Ex AH is going to keep doing what hes doing, regardless of what advice he gets or what help is offered. And I know its not healthy for me to get involved again trying to fix things. I did that for a long time and it made no difference. My life - and my daughters life is so much happier and more peaceful without all of that in our home.
but it sure is hard and so sad to see him this way. I guess I still have moments of the delusion that the right thing will get him on a better track. But really, its his job to figure that out, not mine.
when I came to this board today, I found a recent thread about let go and let god. Just the reminder I needed. Again. it is hard to want to do something out of concern and to know that its not a good idea and really there is no point. He has to want things to change. So I will work on letting God.
it has helped me to process this here. Thank you all.
JerryF said
Dec 29, 2019
Norasq I know for me that one best choice would be to call the local AA hotline and ask them what they would suggest and who they might have that they can send over to speak with him. I have seen it work before. ((((hugs))))
Bo said
Dec 29, 2019
It is sad. Very sad. Many of us have faced the same thing. It is natural to want to do something, and very natural to question what if anything we should do, shouldn't do, and so on.
I've called the police for a "wellness check" and am comfortable doing so when the situation warrants it. I've called the police when there were threats of suicide -- and they call suicide prevention/social services -- and I am comfortable doing that as well in that specific situation.
As far as the rest...you do what you think is best as far as calling his doctor. I would do so if you can assure that it will be confidential. You also have to do what you need to do, to stay on your side of the street and keep your side of the street clean. Even looking at the other side of the street can be a slippery slope. Perhaps having the boundary that you will only speak with him when it specifically has to do with your daughter is the way to go -- and if so, it is a boundary that needs to be honored BY YOU, respected BY YOU, and it needs to be a firm, non-negotiable one. It only works if you work it.
He needs to -- continue -- to feel and live with the consequences of his own actions and decisions...if he is going to have any hope of wanting to get better.
He has to want it. Not you. He has to decide. Not you. He has to do it. Not you.
The so called "right thing" from you or by you will NOT get him back on track.
Go to face to face meetings. Talk to your sponsor. Alanon very often doesn't work on a one-off, crisis management, as needed, basis. It's like a diet. It's an everyday thing.
Bo said
Dec 29, 2019
JerryF wrote:
Norasq I know for me that one best choice would be to call the local AA hotline and ask them what they would suggest and who they might have that they can send over to speak with him. I have seen it work before. ((((hugs))))
Excellent idea!!! Thanks Jerry!
norasq said
Dec 29, 2019
I did not know this was an option. Thank you.
hotrod said
Dec 29, 2019
Great suggestion Jerry
Bo said
Dec 29, 2019
They do that around here, but being that I am not in AA, and rarely attend meetings, I am not familiar with the details. However, I do know that a couple of AA members do go and visit with someone who "went out" again (relapsed). A friend of mine went and told me about it.
All the best!
Iamhere said
Dec 29, 2019
(((norasq))) - good to see you again and glad to hear that you and your daughter are doing well. I agree that it's super hard to watch another in the active side of this disease. I have taken a variety of action(s) when I felt it necessary after checking my own motives. I did try to pass along information to a treating doctor at one point, and put it into writing so I would be sharing information instead of emotion. Since my person was of adult age, a formal discussion was off-limits.
I have done what Jerry suggests and can say that often times, even if a person is not ready to hear or listen, seeds are still planted. I am better at letting go and letting God when I've talked things out with my sponsor or another program friend. I also strongly believe in the power of prayer, and include active alcoholics, recovering alcoholics and all who love/support them in/out of recovery each day. Prayer, for me, is a positive action I can take that is healthy for me.
Keep coming back - you are not alone!
Maresie888 said
Dec 30, 2019
The ex A who.Inwas involved with for 8 years has gone out again. He went to stay or rather imposed on his uncle in another area for a number of years.
I feel pretty numb about whatever problems the ex A has. I have heard indicators of those problems I choose not to investigate.
Being over involved was my normal. That was all Inknew for 8 years solid.
I would really caution about getting involved. For some people it has to be a real low bottom. For other people there is no bottom. I know people in Aa who had to reach that bottom to turn around. For some people of course there is no.bottom.
I know for me I want to be a super hero. I want to be betwee, applauded and told that this shows I really care. THat is my ideal self this beacon of caring and service to others
I do care but these days I know the consequence of getting sucked in. What happens after the call. How many other calls are there?
In addition I note in your call to the ex A it was all about him. Meanwhile you have your own issues. We all have our own issues.
.
For alcoholics they have to take up all the oxygen. In the room. No one else exists for some with the narcissistic elements. I existed in those re li relationships where there was no relationship.for me for years. That is my beeds never figured in the picture. It was always all about THEM.
No room for me.
These days al.anon has made me want room for me
Maresie
Aloha said
Dec 30, 2019
I'm glad you mentioned calling AA, Jerry, as this man sounds exactly like those described in the beginning of the Big Book and in AA's step 12.
Like others have said, just do that call knowing that it's still up to the alcoholic and God as to whether or not he'll seek help. Once you call AA the outcomes are all out of your hands.
In the meantime, as you know, keep getting to your meetings and working the steps with your sponsor. I am always reminded that everyone benefits when I keep the focus on me and work on changing myself.
Bo said
Dec 30, 2019
We live...one day at a time. We live just for today.
norasq said
Dec 30, 2019
Thank you all. I decided to email his dr, and let it go. Ex AH has a lot of scorn for AA and I dont think hed open the door to anyone anyway. But I remind myself that he has family who loves him and tries to help. He has good medical resources and support if he chooses to use it. Having conveyed what Ex AH told me to the dr, whom I respect and trust, I can let this go. The situation is sad but I cant change it. Only he can. Im going back to my side of the street... and will be going to a F2F meeting later today.
Thank you again for your insights and reminders.
I am reminded again of how true it is that alcoholism is a family disease. It affects everyone around the A no matter how far away in geography or time.
JerryF said
Dec 30, 2019
Like others who have mentioned that they have done 12 Step calls I have also in both AA and Al-Anon. As crazy as this disease gets in and out of our programs often times my contact was for the Al-Anon side. I became a behavioral health therapist which worked out well.
The 12th step for me is the last and most powerful in bringing our message of recovery to others and they don't always have to be the sick ones many are just like me when I first was presented with awareness of what I was suffering with and from.
We have to be aware and most of all willing to carry our powerful message and recovery out to others. Yes sometimes threats and anger meet us when doing this step and I was never alone. My Higher Power walks every step with me. Happy New Year. (((((hugs)))))
Hi, all, and happy holidays to you. As ever, I am so grateful for this group. I dont post often, but get much support from just reading.
i dont have a lot of contact with my ex AH these days but we have a young adult daughter on the autism spectrum who lives with me. He lives in the same town, 5 minutes away. When he and I do have contact, its around her. Things are civil but I need to keep the boundaries or he asks me to do caretaking things for him and that is not something I want to do.
But it is so hard seeing him sink into a very deep and essentially non-functional hole. He lives alone:his girlfriend broke up with him after he went to rehab and then relapsed. He plummeted into deep depression and some months ago I coped with him calling to tell me he was going to kill himself, he had a plan, etc. He wanted me to go over to his house. I said suicide talk was a serious thing, he needed help I couldnt provide, and I called 911.
I know he sees his dr (who used to be my dr too) and I know the dr knows of his drinking.
Ex AH has not seen our daughter since before thanksgiving, says hes not up to it. Yesterday he called me to address an issue with her cell phone, which is on his plan. And as we talked he said
- He is suffering from such bad anxiety that he starts each day with a panic attack and has to have a shot of vodka to calm down, which he follows with prescribed Ativan. Does this every day
- he is lethargic and without interest every day and spends most of every day in bed
- he has such bad neck and back pain that he cannot walk or do much for very long. He realizes this is likely muscle atrophy from months of living like this but suspects a mysterious illness which dr has as yet been unable to diagnose despite lots of testing
- he has not had clean clothes for 5 months, as his landlord removed the water and dryer when washer malfunctioned, and although he has hook up and he can replace them, he has not felt up to buying a washer and dryer and cannot summon the energy to go to a laundromat
- he drinks an ensure drink every day and sometimes eats something for dinner but mostly has no appetite and no interest in eating
- he has fallen twice in his home since Halloween, both resulting in bloody head injuries that required stitches at the ER. with one of those, he has no memory at all of event but woke up in the morning in our daughters bedroom (She used to visit him there and has a room there), wearing a different shirt, very bloody with cut head, and lots of blood stains on rug on stairs.
All of this is so sad and dire. 18 months ago he was functional, with a good job and seeming to maintain basic function, although was drinking and using Xanax or Ativan.
I know from his brother and sister in law, with whom I have a good relationship, that he declined going to any family holiday get togethers even tho they offered to pick him up, etc, and then they had something to drop off to him, he would not open the door to them and had them leave things on his porch.
part of me wants to let his dr know what he has told me, as dr may not know about simultaneous use of vodka and Ativan As well as extent of his dysfunction. But I know hes not my responsibility. I think Dr likely knows and Ex AH does what he does regardless of what dr tells him.
I also know from 20 years of marriage that Ex AH is going to keep doing what hes doing, regardless of what advice he gets or what help is offered. And I know its not healthy for me to get involved again trying to fix things. I did that for a long time and it made no difference. My life - and my daughters life is so much happier and more peaceful without all of that in our home.
but it sure is hard and so sad to see him this way. I guess I still have moments of the delusion that the right thing will get him on a better track. But really, its his job to figure that out, not mine.
when I came to this board today, I found a recent thread about let go and let god. Just the reminder I needed. Again. it is hard to want to do something out of concern and to know that its not a good idea and really there is no point. He has to want things to change. So I will work on letting God.
it has helped me to process this here. Thank you all.
Norasq I know for me that one best choice would be to call the local AA hotline and ask them what they would suggest and who they might have that they can send over to speak with him. I have seen it work before. ((((hugs))))
I've called the police for a "wellness check" and am comfortable doing so when the situation warrants it. I've called the police when there were threats of suicide -- and they call suicide prevention/social services -- and I am comfortable doing that as well in that specific situation.
As far as the rest...you do what you think is best as far as calling his doctor. I would do so if you can assure that it will be confidential. You also have to do what you need to do, to stay on your side of the street and keep your side of the street clean. Even looking at the other side of the street can be a slippery slope. Perhaps having the boundary that you will only speak with him when it specifically has to do with your daughter is the way to go -- and if so, it is a boundary that needs to be honored BY YOU, respected BY YOU, and it needs to be a firm, non-negotiable one. It only works if you work it.
He needs to -- continue -- to feel and live with the consequences of his own actions and decisions...if he is going to have any hope of wanting to get better.
He has to want it. Not you. He has to decide. Not you. He has to do it. Not you.
The so called "right thing" from you or by you will NOT get him back on track.
Go to face to face meetings. Talk to your sponsor. Alanon very often doesn't work on a one-off, crisis management, as needed, basis. It's like a diet. It's an everyday thing.
Excellent idea!!! Thanks Jerry!
I did not know this was an option. Thank you.
All the best!
I have done what Jerry suggests and can say that often times, even if a person is not ready to hear or listen, seeds are still planted. I am better at letting go and letting God when I've talked things out with my sponsor or another program friend. I also strongly believe in the power of prayer, and include active alcoholics, recovering alcoholics and all who love/support them in/out of recovery each day. Prayer, for me, is a positive action I can take that is healthy for me.
Keep coming back - you are not alone!
Like others have said, just do that call knowing that it's still up to the alcoholic and God as to whether or not he'll seek help. Once you call AA the outcomes are all out of your hands.
In the meantime, as you know, keep getting to your meetings and working the steps with your sponsor. I am always reminded that everyone benefits when I keep the focus on me and work on changing myself.
Thank you again for your insights and reminders.
I am reminded again of how true it is that alcoholism is a family disease. It affects everyone around the A no matter how far away in geography or time.
Like others who have mentioned that they have done 12 Step calls I have also in both AA and Al-Anon. As crazy as this disease gets in and out of our programs often times my contact was for the Al-Anon side. I became a behavioral health therapist which worked out well.
The 12th step for me is the last and most powerful in bringing our message of recovery to others and they don't always have to be the sick ones many are just like me when I first was presented with awareness of what I was suffering with and from.
We have to be aware and most of all willing to carry our powerful message and recovery out to others. Yes sometimes threats and anger meet us when doing this step and I was never alone. My Higher Power walks every step with me. Happy New Year. (((((hugs)))))