Hello everyone - after being on and or still regularly reading these boards for the last two years, I am back and looking for some support please until I can get to my next f2f meeting.
Long story short, but I have separated from my AH. Things at home had been calmer and AH has reported he had stopped drinking and regularly attending AA, which I am supportive of but trying to leave him to walk his own path and with his own HP.
He had been coming round occasionally to spend time with the children or do some family stuff together which had worked relatively well and bridges were starting to be built. But last night everything kicked off. He was hungry and despite my adult daughter asking him to wait a minute while she prepared something he pushed into her to get to the fridge and the whole thing escalated which resulted in him saying the most awful things to the grown up children and yelling he wanted to kill our oldest son. I got him out of the house and back to his own property.
I know this is a family disease and I know I am powerless, but I feel so awful and shocked how everything escalated and feel such a deep sadness within me. There is no way I can or will accept such unacceptable behaviour, but I just feel so bad. Deep down I was probably right back in denial again and thinking / hoping that this time it was going to be ok.
I tried calling him today to check how he was and he is taking no responsibility for any of his actions last night. I have simply wished him well and said there is nothing more to be said.I am reworking step one, but was just looking for some support from anyone out there please. I haven't felt this bad in ages. Thank you for listening.
SerenityRUS said
Dec 27, 2019
I PM'd you. :) Big hugs ..
joker said
Dec 27, 2019
All I can say is Alcoholics are sick and will lash out and they suffer from mental illness. This is what I have learned. I understand you feel awful but its not your cross to carry. He has to make amends for his words. Death threats are a sign of domestic violence and should be taken seriously. Police charge people for making death threats. I know I endured it with my grown mentally ill daughter and the police had to be called and they asked if I wanted to charge her for making such threats. I said no as I know she needed hospitalization, not a court/jail sentence. Your husband is grown adult and these comments are serious. I do not not know what else to say but keep the focus on yourself and keep your family safe. If things escalate further, I would take action such as restraining order or calling the police. He needs to be made aware that threats are serious. Keep your head up and know that at this moment your ok. You will be ok. Stay safe and monitor your husband. Is he still using? just getting off alcohol? he could be nervous and angry at himself. Keep the focus on the day/moment. Only ESHIP I can offer. Hope it helps!
Iamhere said
Dec 27, 2019
(((Better Tomorrow))) - it's really good to see you...we've missed you. I read your share and see a program in action. There is no shame in loving who we love. There is no shame in sadness when things go different than desired. I find it incredibly hard to watch those I love battle this disease. It takes an incredible amount of courage to keep our hearts open, offer support and empathy to a sick person and keep hope alive.
It does come with risk, which for me is directly related to my expectations. If I can design and maintain healthy boundaries, line up each morning with the God of my understanding, take good care of me and keep my expectations low, days go well/reasonably well.
When the crazy blame game starts here, I tend to remove myself or the other person. It's just counter-productive to my serenity to get into a discussion/argument on what actually happened. I can stand in my truth and let it go as I really do prefer to be happy vs. right. Right fighting is a waste of time, especially with a sick person...
You have a plan, and that's what recovery is all about. We are NOT expected to isolate from others who are sick. We are not expected to perfectly work the program. We are expected to keep living, learning, loving and growing. For me, none of the formal is possible without some level of risk. I still don't know how to 'do life' great yet by process of elimination, I do know what is unhealthy.
Good for you for clearing out the chaos. Good for you for supporting your kids. Good for you for making you/recovery a priority. Good for you for compassion and empathy for your A. Feel what you feel and try to remember that this too shall pass and feelings are not facts - feeling sad doesn't make you a sad person - just a perfectly imperfect one that's having a sad moment in a day.
Keep coming back - you are not alone!
Bettertomorrow said
Dec 27, 2019
Thank you everyone. I really do appreciate your support.
I have been able to stand back this evening and acknowledge that I did the best I could in the situation and it's definitely progress on what I would have done 2 years ago. We are safe and I am focusing on myself and my wonderful children and whilst I do feel sad I can still feel some compassion for him and hope that his HP takes care of him.
Thank you again. x
Bo said
Dec 27, 2019
Well, the same thing has happened to me...dozens of times!!! Why? Denial. We want what we want. We become complacent. We don't honor our boundaries. We don't respect our program and our recovery. We negotiate with ourselves, the alcoholic/addict, we negotiate with their disease, and our disease. And so on and so on.
Knowing we are powerless, having acceptance, understanding the 3C's, and everything else we know about the program and our recovery...DOESN'T MEAN A THING...UNLESS...WE LIVE IT...UNLESS...WE DO IT.
We tend to "go back to where we were before" and we come up with reasons -- we justify, rationalize, vacillate, etc. -- why what we are doing is OK. Why do we do it? Because we want to.
So, the sadness...first, stop beating yourself up. Second, lesson learned. Third, focus on you. Really focus on you. Not him. He has his own road to either get back from this, or to keep going with this. Do you think he needs you? He doesn't need you. If he wants you, you don't have to go along. Give him the dignity and the right to do what he's going to do, on his own, without you. Calling him to "check how he was" is reflective of something. It's something in and about you. Look at that. Look at what went on -- going back, way before this -- from the beginning, when you started "doing family stuff together" so to speak. Technically, you are a family. To some extent, you will always be...HOWEVER...there was a reason for the separation. Don't collapse the separation and wanting what you want, hope, etc.
I get the sadness. I get the disappointment. I get all of it. Look at the cause. Open and honest. Lesson learned. And move on. Stop beating yourself up. Go gentle unto yourself.
Just for today.
tiredtonite said
Dec 27, 2019
Hi bettertomorrow,
You're doing a good job working your own program and having healthy boundaries. The disease of alcoholism is a complicated one. The words cunning and baffling are used in Alanon perhaps AA too to describe it. Sometimes there are other underlying mental health issues after someone becomes sober and those may need treatment professionally. Also, when someone is newly sober they can really act insane because of needing to abstain but obsessing about and craving. Basically, its withdrawal. This doesn't just go away in a 28 day dry out. The first year is supposed to be the hardest. There can be angry, irrational, misplaced, immature behavior and words.
I am not for a moment minimizing what took place in your home between your husband and children. It's not to be minimized. This isn't the sort of thing where one chooses denial rather than putting personal safety and wellbeing out front.
With that said, your husband is a sick person not a bad person. He may need some help of a professional but also not realize he does. He may be feeling that he is doing what he is supposed to but not understand why he isn't feeling better yet have skewed thinking concerning asking for extra help. Some people have trouble admitting they are having trouble.
Prayers for your family. (((hugs)) TT
Maresie888 said
Dec 28, 2019
I have been down this.road.many times.
Put down the.stixk
You did great handled the situation
Alcoholism is one of those.diseases we all want to pick up the responsibility.
I get being irritated. I am irritated at the moment I am not opening my mouth up .
Adults have responsibility to act responsibly
The checking in stuff is not absolutely necessary. I always used to feel the ex A was on the brink. He survived two life threatening illnesses. He went and imposed himself on his Uncle after I left him.
They are good at making you worried
Is he checking in on you?
Nope
There is a certain chaos around an alcoholic that is compelling
It sucks everyone in
Al anon permits us to step back and regroup. Then it gives us tools not to be sucked in. Then it gives us the space to regroup and refocus
The focus has to come back off the alcoholic
Maresie
Bettertomorrow said
Dec 28, 2019
Thank you all again for your replies.
On reflection I can see I was allowing myself to get sucked back in, denying that things weren't really bad. Checking in with him, was all about me and my need to 'fix' things (old habits die hard!). And no of course he didn't phone me to check how I was - that comment has really helped me to change my focus today, so thank you. In fact it brought a smile to my face to realise how I expect so little in return from my life partner - again something about me I need to work on.
Thank you.
Maresie888 said
Dec 28, 2019
My life really wucks right now so.I am glad to know I.srill have the ability to.make someone.smile.
Maresie
Lyne said
Dec 28, 2019
{{{BT}}}. I see program strength and determination. It works when you work it. Tools I try to remember with my A are to have no expectations, ODAT, focus on myself, reach out to others, and the steps and Serenity Prayer must stay on the tip on my tongue. Keep coming back, Lyne
Bo said
Dec 28, 2019
I also found that being vested in the outcome -- made me prejudiced. During my separation, I still wanted things to work. I convinced myself things weren't as bad, were getting better, etc. -- so at the first chance of doing things together, spending time together with the family/kids/etc., I did that!!! Because I wanted what I wanted!!!
Just for today. Separation.
Just for today. Focus on me and my life.
Just for today.
You don't know how things are going to play out. So, no matter how things work out...you need to make sure that you are going to be OK, you are going to be healthy. My sponsor told me, whether you stay married, separated, or get divorced, you need to be OK. Whether she drinks or not, you need to be OK. No matter what, you need to be OK. It was then I learned that I needed to focus on me...and not her! Not us! Not what I wanted. I needed to let go, surrender, my will and what I wanted, hoped for, etc., until I got better.
Maresie888 said
Dec 30, 2019
This thread has brought up a lot for me about spending so many holidays settling for so little. That us very painful
Aloha said
Dec 30, 2019
Glad you're here, BT, and that you're seeing your progress through all of this.
Bettertomorrow said
Jan 1, 2020
Thank you all for your thoughtful replies.
I have spent the last few days listening to podcasts, re-reading literature and getting out into nature, which always lifts my spirits.
I recognise now that I have slipped back into old and less healthy ways of thinking and need to examine my motives for wanting to maintain contact with my AH more closely. I can see now that it is about me wanting to make him feel better (which means that not only am I thinking I have the responsibility for how he is feeling, but also that my own self esteem has dropped so low again that I am not even on my own priority list). Writing it down like this shows me how distorted my own thinking has become again.
My focus is now back on getting me healthy and letting go of everything else. Thank you all for your support and ESH.
Wishing you all a very peaceful, serene and Happy New Year.
Iamhere said
Jan 1, 2020
Right back @ ya Bettertomorrow - wishing you a peaceful, serene and Happy New Year! Love your post and your share - great focus too! (((Hugs)))
Bo said
Jan 1, 2020
Great for you Bettertomorrow!!! It's great that you now have clarity and focus -- and tremendous awareness -- over what went on. I like the getting into nature aspect of this. Obviously that is something you can connect with and something that makes you feel grounded, lifts your spirits, and makes you feel better! Great for you!
So, you "slipped" -- that's all it is. A slip. Some might say relapse. I have heard many times, countless times, in face to face meetings -- which I've attended all over the country -- that "relapse is part of recovery". Now, while many people debate that saying, the bottom line is that one of the principles of alanon is...progress not perfection. Progress not perfection. So, rather than get caught up in the semantics, and the website police arguments, LOL, here's my take. Part of recovery is the possibility of a slip. Whatever it was, you slipped back into old and less healthy ways of thinking. That's OK. You caught it!!! And you recovered. And you are back into recovery, on the recovery road, and living a life of recovery. Don't beat yourself up! Go gentle unto yourself. Yes, check your motives...but keep it simple. Don't get caught up in analyzing and trying to figure it out logically so that you end up losing sight of what's important -- acceptance, awareness, and action...so that it doesn't happen again!!!
Of course we want to make someone feel better. Of course we want them to be better. That's natura. The real question is what do we do about it -- and we learn in alanon to do what is healthy for us. We can be there for the alcoholic, but we do so in a healthy and supportive way. We don't enable. We don't do what they want, on their terms. We know what we can and can't do. Maybe you thought it was your responsibility or obligation to make him feel better, or maybe not. Doesn't matter. Look forward. Move forward. Get healthy and get better. Do the work and get better, get healthy.
All the best.
JerryF said
Jan 1, 2020
Better Tomorrow The title of this post was exactly how I use to present my needs for understanding when I finally gave up denial and reached out to those who knew about this disease; old timers, college, printed material and the AMA.
It all helped me to accept that my alcoholic/addict spouse was suffering with a compulsion of the mind and allergy of the body. I stopped judging her so hard as if she was knowledgeable and accepted that she was a very sick woman.
One thing I learned and held on to strongly even to this day; Alcohol doesn't need to go thru the stomach and body to reach her brain. Her Central Nervous System is just behind her tongue. I then accepted and admitted I was powerless over alcoholism and my life was unmanageable. Once I got that firm nothing that happened was surprising and I didn't cause it, couldn't control it and wouldn't cure it. I needed an army of wise, experienced others to help me to find my place and stay in it. She finally got clean and sober with the help of the tools HP placed before her and was able to encourage my recovery also.
Miracles came and still come. Keep coming back. ((((Hugs))))
Hello everyone - after being on and or still regularly reading these boards for the last two years, I am back and looking for some support please until I can get to my next f2f meeting.
Long story short, but I have separated from my AH. Things at home had been calmer and AH has reported he had stopped drinking and regularly attending AA, which I am supportive of but trying to leave him to walk his own path and with his own HP.
He had been coming round occasionally to spend time with the children or do some family stuff together which had worked relatively well and bridges were starting to be built. But last night everything kicked off. He was hungry and despite my adult daughter asking him to wait a minute while she prepared something he pushed into her to get to the fridge and the whole thing escalated which resulted in him saying the most awful things to the grown up children and yelling he wanted to kill our oldest son. I got him out of the house and back to his own property.
I know this is a family disease and I know I am powerless, but I feel so awful and shocked how everything escalated and feel such a deep sadness within me. There is no way I can or will accept such unacceptable behaviour, but I just feel so bad. Deep down I was probably right back in denial again and thinking / hoping that this time it was going to be ok.
I tried calling him today to check how he was and he is taking no responsibility for any of his actions last night. I have simply wished him well and said there is nothing more to be said.I am reworking step one, but was just looking for some support from anyone out there please. I haven't felt this bad in ages. Thank you for listening.
All I can say is Alcoholics are sick and will lash out and they suffer from mental illness. This is what I have learned. I understand you feel awful but its not your cross to carry. He has to make amends for his words. Death threats are a sign of domestic violence and should be taken seriously. Police charge people for making death threats. I know I endured it with my grown mentally ill daughter and the police had to be called and they asked if I wanted to charge her for making such threats. I said no as I know she needed hospitalization, not a court/jail sentence. Your husband is grown adult and these comments are serious. I do not not know what else to say but keep the focus on yourself and keep your family safe. If things escalate further, I would take action such as restraining order or calling the police. He needs to be made aware that threats are serious. Keep your head up and know that at this moment your ok. You will be ok. Stay safe and monitor your husband. Is he still using? just getting off alcohol? he could be nervous and angry at himself. Keep the focus on the day/moment. Only ESHIP I can offer. Hope it helps!
It does come with risk, which for me is directly related to my expectations. If I can design and maintain healthy boundaries, line up each morning with the God of my understanding, take good care of me and keep my expectations low, days go well/reasonably well.
When the crazy blame game starts here, I tend to remove myself or the other person. It's just counter-productive to my serenity to get into a discussion/argument on what actually happened. I can stand in my truth and let it go as I really do prefer to be happy vs. right. Right fighting is a waste of time, especially with a sick person...
You have a plan, and that's what recovery is all about. We are NOT expected to isolate from others who are sick. We are not expected to perfectly work the program. We are expected to keep living, learning, loving and growing. For me, none of the formal is possible without some level of risk. I still don't know how to 'do life' great yet by process of elimination, I do know what is unhealthy.
Good for you for clearing out the chaos. Good for you for supporting your kids. Good for you for making you/recovery a priority. Good for you for compassion and empathy for your A. Feel what you feel and try to remember that this too shall pass and feelings are not facts - feeling sad doesn't make you a sad person - just a perfectly imperfect one that's having a sad moment in a day.
Keep coming back - you are not alone!
Thank you everyone. I really do appreciate your support.
I have been able to stand back this evening and acknowledge that I did the best I could in the situation and it's definitely progress on what I would have done 2 years ago. We are safe and I am focusing on myself and my wonderful children and whilst I do feel sad I can still feel some compassion for him and hope that his HP takes care of him.
Thank you again. x
Well, the same thing has happened to me...dozens of times!!! Why? Denial. We want what we want. We become complacent. We don't honor our boundaries. We don't respect our program and our recovery. We negotiate with ourselves, the alcoholic/addict, we negotiate with their disease, and our disease. And so on and so on.
Knowing we are powerless, having acceptance, understanding the 3C's, and everything else we know about the program and our recovery...DOESN'T MEAN A THING...UNLESS...WE LIVE IT...UNLESS...WE DO IT.
We tend to "go back to where we were before" and we come up with reasons -- we justify, rationalize, vacillate, etc. -- why what we are doing is OK. Why do we do it? Because we want to.
So, the sadness...first, stop beating yourself up. Second, lesson learned. Third, focus on you. Really focus on you. Not him. He has his own road to either get back from this, or to keep going with this. Do you think he needs you? He doesn't need you. If he wants you, you don't have to go along. Give him the dignity and the right to do what he's going to do, on his own, without you. Calling him to "check how he was" is reflective of something. It's something in and about you. Look at that. Look at what went on -- going back, way before this -- from the beginning, when you started "doing family stuff together" so to speak. Technically, you are a family. To some extent, you will always be...HOWEVER...there was a reason for the separation. Don't collapse the separation and wanting what you want, hope, etc.
I get the sadness. I get the disappointment. I get all of it. Look at the cause. Open and honest. Lesson learned. And move on. Stop beating yourself up. Go gentle unto yourself.
Just for today.
Thank you all again for your replies.
On reflection I can see I was allowing myself to get sucked back in, denying that things weren't really bad. Checking in with him, was all about me and my need to 'fix' things (old habits die hard!). And no of course he didn't phone me to check how I was - that comment has really helped me to change my focus today, so thank you. In fact it brought a smile to my face to realise how I expect so little in return from my life partner - again something about me I need to work on.
Thank you.
Just for today. Separation.
Just for today. Focus on me and my life.
Just for today.
You don't know how things are going to play out. So, no matter how things work out...you need to make sure that you are going to be OK, you are going to be healthy. My sponsor told me, whether you stay married, separated, or get divorced, you need to be OK. Whether she drinks or not, you need to be OK. No matter what, you need to be OK. It was then I learned that I needed to focus on me...and not her! Not us! Not what I wanted. I needed to let go, surrender, my will and what I wanted, hoped for, etc., until I got better.
Thank you all for your thoughtful replies.
I have spent the last few days listening to podcasts, re-reading literature and getting out into nature, which always lifts my spirits.
I recognise now that I have slipped back into old and less healthy ways of thinking and need to examine my motives for wanting to maintain contact with my AH more closely. I can see now that it is about me wanting to make him feel better (which means that not only am I thinking I have the responsibility for how he is feeling, but also that my own self esteem has dropped so low again that I am not even on my own priority list). Writing it down like this shows me how distorted my own thinking has become again.
My focus is now back on getting me healthy and letting go of everything else. Thank you all for your support and ESH.
Wishing you all a very peaceful, serene and Happy New Year.
So, you "slipped" -- that's all it is. A slip. Some might say relapse. I have heard many times, countless times, in face to face meetings -- which I've attended all over the country -- that "relapse is part of recovery". Now, while many people debate that saying, the bottom line is that one of the principles of alanon is...progress not perfection. Progress not perfection. So, rather than get caught up in the semantics, and the website police arguments, LOL, here's my take. Part of recovery is the possibility of a slip. Whatever it was, you slipped back into old and less healthy ways of thinking. That's OK. You caught it!!! And you recovered. And you are back into recovery, on the recovery road, and living a life of recovery. Don't beat yourself up! Go gentle unto yourself. Yes, check your motives...but keep it simple. Don't get caught up in analyzing and trying to figure it out logically so that you end up losing sight of what's important -- acceptance, awareness, and action...so that it doesn't happen again!!!
Of course we want to make someone feel better. Of course we want them to be better. That's natura. The real question is what do we do about it -- and we learn in alanon to do what is healthy for us. We can be there for the alcoholic, but we do so in a healthy and supportive way. We don't enable. We don't do what they want, on their terms. We know what we can and can't do. Maybe you thought it was your responsibility or obligation to make him feel better, or maybe not. Doesn't matter. Look forward. Move forward. Get healthy and get better. Do the work and get better, get healthy.
All the best.
Better Tomorrow The title of this post was exactly how I use to present my needs for understanding when I finally gave up denial and reached out to those who knew about this disease; old timers, college, printed material and the AMA.
It all helped me to accept that my alcoholic/addict spouse was suffering with a compulsion of the mind and allergy of the body. I stopped judging her so hard as if she was knowledgeable and accepted that she was a very sick woman.
One thing I learned and held on to strongly even to this day; Alcohol doesn't need to go thru the stomach and body to reach her brain. Her Central Nervous System is just behind her tongue. I then accepted and admitted I was powerless over alcoholism and my life was unmanageable. Once I got that firm nothing that happened was surprising and I didn't cause it, couldn't control it and wouldn't cure it. I needed an army of wise, experienced others to help me to find my place and stay in it. She finally got clean and sober with the help of the tools HP placed before her and was able to encourage my recovery also.
Miracles came and still come. Keep coming back. ((((Hugs))))