I saw this posted on another addiction site, and I thought that it was so profound. For me, this is what my marriage was lacking due to Addiction... not love. I am sorry I cannot credit who said it...
"Feelings fade but character, integrity, honor, trust and stability is what we want to teach our children to look for and fall in love with because that is what lasts and makes for a lifetime of true happiness and serenity."
&
mamalioness said
Oct 27, 2019
((((((((((((((((((((PNP)))))))))))))))))))))))))) OMG and it is THOSE attributes that keep a good relationship, be it with relationships with humans, pets, jobs, ANYTHING to do with LIFE going.....Tho my feelings never faded with my lost pets, sadly with humans, they did, but if the relationship was for the MOST part, nourishing, positive, etc., it would endure....I have a cousin who for lack of a better term is a "spoiled little rich girl" whose parents gave her everything and left her provided for so she never had to work and struggle and suffer financial fear like I have and am now doing....She thinks she is "higher" than me and treats me many times as such....Money can give her a lot, but it cannot impart on her honour and respect, compassion, trustworthiness, AND desirability.....I have finally distanced myself from this woman who does not deserve me.....being a DNA relative does not compel me to accept being treated "less than" by someone who is always in a row with someone because SHE is always right and her city /neighbors are always in the wrong...
hotrod said
Oct 27, 2019
PNP i did not have that in my marriage. but since my hubby's passing i have experienced it in my current relationship ThaNKS TO ALANON
PosiesandPuppies said
Oct 28, 2019
Rose, you are so right... money can buy you many things, it can open many doors too. But it cannot magically place inside of you those most desirable of qualities: integrity, compassion, honor.
Betty, I am so happy to hear that you found that special person that can add to the richness of your life! You could say your HP has blessed you!
&
-- Edited by PosiesandPuppies on Monday 28th of October 2019 09:26:59 AM
El said
Oct 28, 2019
Thank you PnP! It is so, so true. Thank you for sharing the important message and reminder!
Ellen
2HP said
Oct 28, 2019
I am reminded of our slogan FIRST THINGS FIRST. Not that it would have done me any good as a young woman....
My own parents never liked the man I dated but I married him anyway. And though he was alcoholic, I believe I could NEVER have learned what I did at the pace I did, without that experience.
"Nothing in God's world happens by mistake."
(((peace)))
andromeda said
Oct 30, 2019
I never had that in my marriage and I had a very twisted version of love. I thought love meant I should turn myself inside out for someone and self sacrifice. Today I feel like I am in a very loving and kind relationship. My feelings are validated, I feel like I am a priority in his life, we build each other up. we support each other in bad times or when we're in bad moods, lol. We work through our differences like adults without condescension or guilt trips or gaslighting. It's truly refreshing. And, it's one of the reasons I love my man so much. He can a pain the neck sometimes but I know he loves me and I know he wants me in his life and I've never felt otherwise.
Thank you for reminding me of what the program of Al Anon has taught me and for what I am grateful for today!
JerryF said
Oct 30, 2019
Love the original way that I learned it should be only happened part-time and never with such endurance that kept me working at it. It was after a meeting one night where an old timer shared how she "love behaved and believed" that I needed to hear her understanding of love so as she was leaving the meeting I chased her down and asked her to tell me how she believed it to be and today I keep it utmost in my mind and behaviors, "Love is the complete and total a c c e p t a n c e of every other human being for e x a c t l y w h o t h e y a r e". HAPPY!! (((((hugs)))))
I understand this is how HP loves me. HAPPY!!
PosiesandPuppies said
Oct 31, 2019
Bonnie, I am so happy to hear that you have connected with someone who not only uplifts you, but accepts you as you are!
When I was first married, that is what I thought I had... it is tough when your partner changes - becomes someone you don't recognize or wonder why you even married! It is in those memories that I remind myself that my spouse was chemically changed by Addiction. I feel this is important b/c with all the denial, gas-lighting etc, the family member/spouse begins to wonder if they were the crazy one to have married this person!
Now out of the marriage, I am constantly reminded that perhaps I did not truly Love (as defined by some)... I could no longer accept my spouse unconditionally, as he had become. But I know that my love was once true... I just thought he would "grow up" and those tiny annoying behaviors would melt away as I gave my all to him - besides, I had my own annoying behaviors, right? In other words, I thought my love could change him. I just lost myself in that process. I just shake my head at the absurdity now.
However, in a healthy, stable partnership, each person does uplift and make the other "better" I believe. My relationship just devolved instead of evolved.
Thanks for the interesting discussion friends!
&
Spur said
Nov 13, 2019
I have been absent from the forum for awhile, busy working on myself through other means. I love that quote. I too thought I had those things when I got married at age twenty-five. Then addiction set up house keeping in the middle of my marriage and stole happiness from me.
I hope to get those things back one day.
PosiesandPuppies said
Nov 13, 2019
Welcome, Spur.
By working on you, you have opened the door to that possibility!
Iamhere said
Nov 14, 2019
Welcome back spur - glad to have you joining right in! Keep coming back, keep sharing - MIP is just another great tool for your recovery toolbox...
Seahorse7 said
Nov 14, 2019
This is all hitting me hard, especially what Spur said. Me too, Spur. Im just starting this journey and very scared but I already see clearly what Im losing or have lost due to my husbands alcoholism and it makes me so very sad. I do not have a lot of hope right now, but Im grateful for the more experienced voices here. Bless you.
2HP said
Nov 15, 2019
I remember so well feeling the sorrow of my marriage. I hope my ESH will give someone HOPE. These character traits we long for in a relationship ( I did too...)
...by assimilating the 12 steps (that is the key)... my character was changed gradually to become those things I desired ( first things first.) it wasn't about becoming fortunate enough to find the "right" person, I had to become the right person first. Then like a magnet, I seemed to attract it, it happened so easily, I met and married a wonderful man this year.
We had to attend a function recently at his place of employment and what a rich experience it was when all his colleagues came up to me, to tell me what a wonderful human being he is and how they love knowing him and working with him.
The environment I live in now is sooo peaceful and easy and this is allowing me to unfold and do the work I am here to do in my lifetime.
This is not to say I sneer or look down my nose at my former husband whatsoever. He was most certainly the instrument Higher Power chose to help ME change, I am quite sure it could never have happened any other way. I pray for him still, more than I ever did when we were married.
So I must admit that this quote is not much of a favorite to me because it doesnt tell anything about "the teaching"
It all comes back to ME. my kids can only learn by my example. I know this because that is how it worked for me, I came from an alcoholic family and I married it, the example given.
What a shock when I sat in al-anon and discovered I had picked up alcoholic traits myself, it was my conditioning. that is why al-anon suggested that we too had become "sick". (affected)
The 12 steps helped to unravel all of that confusion, one day at a time. I was told to wrap myself DAILY in the wisdom of the steps. Don't just do the steps once a year or whatever but rather, BECOME the principle BEHIND the step.
I am most definitely seeing changes in the character of my (adult) children now... all the Higher Power's great wonderful doing!! All they told me I had to do is become willing to work on ME.
This program works. it really does.
-- Edited by 2HP on Friday 15th of November 2019 08:36:59 AM
mamalioness said
Nov 15, 2019
WOW!!! these shares are fantastic.....2 HP said "He was most certainly the instrument Higher Power chose to help ME change, I am quite sure it could never have happened any other way" WOW!!!! I have had male and female people in my life and yea, i had a rather unpleasent exchange with a cousin that I just DONT want closeness anymore as our conversations do not give me joy!! but I learned something about me when I was telling her tonight that I unfriended her on facebook because #1, it is my page and I'm free to friend or unfriend and #2, she complains about my posts, so I dont' want her that close to me anymore....and I thought, when I was saying this to her, "what is my HP saying to me through her????" and I figured that she is an "instrument" to teach me compassion for folks who just "don't get it" when it comes to being honest, step 10 will never be her friend, she is "always right and i am always wrong" and an amend is a curse to be avoided to her and I thought about all this and I ended the conversation with a "God bless you--I wish you the best--Just not close to me anymore--I only want folks who look at me as an equal...not *less then*"
My HP showed me that I DO value me , I DO believe that I am anyone's equal, NEVER less then..NOT the one always in the wrong and she in the right...and that I, thanks to program, can LOOK at me, ACCEPT my mistakes/wrongs and take RESPONSIBILITY for them and make AMENDS!!! and I don't feel bad about me in my step 10/9 exchange...
yea, she was an instrument to show me that I am progressing...I am moving forward in my recovery...I was kind to her when I said we were no longer a match, that I wanted distance and other people to spend my time chatting with...I noticed when she was getting uglier and uglier to me, how CALM I felt....I basically wished her well and all that negative karma she is burning???? NOT my problem!!!!
PosiesandPuppies said
Nov 16, 2019
Wonderful, Rose!! Now that is a great example of "Detaching with Love!"
I think that it was evidenced by the peace/calm you felt in your soul... thank you for sharing!
JerryF said
Nov 17, 2019
I'm reading and smiling and grateful for the ESH that teaches. Awesome!! (((((with love)))))
WendyP said
Nov 19, 2019
Hi it's WendyP. I would like to share my version about Love, the difference of me between then and now. I was brought up in a House of Hate, I learnt very early in the piece, not to show any emotions, feelings, if I did, I wouldn't be here now. Affection was out, big time. I grew up between 2older sisters,and3 Brothers, so had to be tough.We couldn't sit at the Table without Fights, Arguments, no peace. I grew up Tough, could hold my own with anyone. The bigger the Better. I use to say, that I could go through an operation without any Anaesthetic and not feel anything. But I knew inside of myself, that how I grew up, wasn't right. All I ever wanted to do, when I got married, and had my 3children, was to give them a life, not like my own. I wanted to show them Love, I had learnt an awful lot from my Childhood, of what not to do. Certainly not Hate.
Sadly, unbeknown to me, Alcoholism was very firmly entrenched with in. My First Husband was very Violent,a bender Drinker, and because of my previous history, I stood up to him, knowing that I had to protect my Children. Once more, I knew that the Drink was the problem, not understanding any of the other part of it. I tried so hard to stop it from getting into my 3 lives, I thought I did a good job, and I did, with what I had to deal with. The one thing was, I didn't want to bring my 3 up in a house of Hate, which after finding Alanon, I had.
Alanon, answered so many Questions for me, I could understand, finally as to what had happened, to all of us and why. It helped me to forgive myself for my part in all of it, and that of others. It taught me to give myself permission, to Love, and to show Love. I realized I had always had it, but it was buried beneath a lot of stuff. With my 4th Step, I realized,that being me, I was able to teach my 2 Parents to all Love and Affection, through my 3 Children, I didn't have Alanon at that time, but was still able to teach my 3 to give my Parents, hugs, and kisses and affection in their ways with them. My heart broke for them, as I watched them at first be so uncomfortable, when they got the hugs and kisses, but they did get comfortable afterwards. They even expected it, and looked for it. It became natural,as we were always,so far away, and use to drive sometimes for 8 hours each way, just to come home for a weekend to see them. My children, taught them to Love, sadly, because of the way things were, my Parents,never got that from their other Grand Children. Also, my other Brothers and Sisters not getting recovery, like me think I am the weird one, because I can show Love and affection, sadly, I have always been on the outside looking in, with them.
A friend in AA,once asked me, what was my definition of Love. I had to think about it for awhile, and told him, that my Heart was full of Love, and made up of all little draws, and each one of my loved ones have their own special draw. That was theirs, to keep, no one else's, for they are special to me. To finish, a Friend once gave me a Book Mark of the Name of Wendy, and surprise, surprise, the meaning of it,is Love. I have so much to Thank My God, for holding me in His Arms when I was born,always looking after me, and for giving me this wonderful Programme, Called Alanon, and AA.
Love WendyP.
PosiesandPuppies said
Nov 20, 2019
Hi Wendy!
Thank you for sharing what was/is in your heart about this subject. It is wonderful how you have actively led a different emotional life (and in turn taught your children) than how you were raised.
I saw this posted on another addiction site, and I thought that it was so profound. For me, this is what my marriage was lacking due to Addiction... not love. I am sorry I cannot credit who said it...
"Feelings fade but character, integrity, honor, trust and stability is what we want to teach our children to look for and fall in love with because that is what lasts and makes for a lifetime of true happiness and serenity."
Rose, you are so right... money can buy you many things, it can open many doors too. But it cannot magically place inside of you those most desirable of qualities: integrity, compassion, honor.
& 
Betty, I am so happy to hear that you found that special person that can add to the richness of your life! You could say your HP has blessed you!
-- Edited by PosiesandPuppies on Monday 28th of October 2019 09:26:59 AM
Thank you PnP! It is so, so true. Thank you for sharing the important message and reminder!
Ellen
My own parents never liked the man I dated but I married him anyway. And though he was alcoholic, I believe I could NEVER have learned what I did at the pace I did, without that experience.
"Nothing in God's world happens by mistake."
(((peace)))
Thank you for reminding me of what the program of Al Anon has taught me and for what I am grateful for today!
Love the original way that I learned it should be only happened part-time and never with such endurance that kept me working at it. It was after a meeting one night where an old timer shared how she "love behaved and believed" that I needed to hear her understanding of love so as she was leaving the meeting I chased her down and asked her to tell me how she believed it to be and today I keep it utmost in my mind and behaviors, "Love is the complete and total a c c e p t a n c e of every other human being for e x a c t l y w h o t h e y a r e". HAPPY!! (((((hugs)))))
I understand this is how HP loves me. HAPPY!!
Bonnie,
I am so happy to hear that you have connected with someone who not only uplifts you, but accepts you as you are!
When I was first married, that is what I thought I had... it is tough when your partner changes - becomes someone you don't recognize or wonder why you even married! It is in those memories that I remind myself that my spouse was chemically changed by Addiction. I feel this is important b/c with all the denial, gas-lighting etc, the family member/spouse begins to wonder if they were the crazy one to have married this person!
Now out of the marriage, I am constantly reminded that perhaps I did not truly Love (as defined by some)... I could no longer accept my spouse unconditionally, as he had become. But I know that my love was once true... I just thought he would "grow up" and those tiny annoying behaviors would melt away as I gave my all to him - besides, I had my own annoying behaviors, right? In other words, I thought my love could change him. I just lost myself in that process. I just shake my head at the absurdity now.
However, in a healthy, stable partnership, each person does uplift and make the other "better" I believe. My relationship just devolved instead of evolved.
Thanks for the interesting discussion friends!
By working on you, you have opened the door to that possibility!
This is all hitting me hard, especially what Spur said. Me too, Spur. Im just starting this journey and very scared but I already see clearly what Im losing or have lost due to my husbands alcoholism and it makes me so very sad. I do not have a lot of hope right now, but Im grateful for the more experienced voices here. Bless you.
I remember so well feeling the sorrow of my marriage. I hope my ESH will give someone HOPE. These character traits we long for in a relationship ( I did too...)
...by assimilating the 12 steps (that is the key)... my character was changed gradually to become those things I desired ( first things first.) it wasn't about becoming fortunate enough to find the "right" person, I had to become the right person first. Then like a magnet, I seemed to attract it, it happened so easily, I met and married a wonderful man this year.
We had to attend a function recently at his place of employment and what a rich experience it was when all his colleagues came up to me, to tell me what a wonderful human being he is and how they love knowing him and working with him.
The environment I live in now is sooo peaceful and easy and this is allowing me to unfold and do the work I am here to do in my lifetime.
This is not to say I sneer or look down my nose at my former husband whatsoever. He was most certainly the instrument Higher Power chose to help ME change, I am quite sure it could never have happened any other way. I pray for him still, more than I ever did when we were married.
So I must admit that this quote is not much of a favorite to me because it doesnt tell anything about "the teaching"
It all comes back to ME. my kids can only learn by my example. I know this because that is how it worked for me, I came from an alcoholic family and I married it, the example given.
What a shock when I sat in al-anon and discovered I had picked up alcoholic traits myself, it was my conditioning. that is why al-anon suggested that we too had become "sick". (affected)
The 12 steps helped to unravel all of that confusion, one day at a time. I was told to wrap myself DAILY in the wisdom of the steps. Don't just do the steps once a year or whatever but rather, BECOME the principle BEHIND the step.
I am most definitely seeing changes in the character of my (adult) children now... all the Higher Power's great wonderful doing!! All they told me I had to do is become willing to work on ME.
This program works. it really does.
-- Edited by 2HP on Friday 15th of November 2019 08:36:59 AM
My HP showed me that I DO value me , I DO believe that I am anyone's equal, NEVER less then..NOT the one always in the wrong and she in the right...and that I, thanks to program, can LOOK at me, ACCEPT my mistakes/wrongs and take RESPONSIBILITY for them and make AMENDS!!! and I don't feel bad about me in my step 10/9 exchange...
yea, she was an instrument to show me that I am progressing...I am moving forward in my recovery...I was kind to her when I said we were no longer a match, that I wanted distance and other people to spend my time chatting with...I noticed when she was getting uglier and uglier to me, how CALM I felt....I basically wished her well and all that negative karma she is burning???? NOT my problem!!!!
I think that it was evidenced by the peace/calm you felt in your soul... thank you for sharing!
I'm reading and smiling and grateful for the ESH that teaches. Awesome!! (((((with love)))))
Hi it's WendyP. I would like to share my version about Love, the difference of me between then and now. I was brought up in a House of Hate, I learnt very early in the piece, not to show any emotions, feelings, if I did, I wouldn't be here now. Affection was out, big time. I grew up between 2older sisters,and3 Brothers, so had to be tough.We couldn't sit at the Table without Fights, Arguments, no peace. I grew up Tough, could hold my own with anyone. The bigger the Better. I use to say, that I could go through an operation without any Anaesthetic and not feel anything. But I knew inside of myself, that how I grew up, wasn't right. All I ever wanted to do, when I got married, and had my 3children, was to give them a life, not like my own. I wanted to show them Love, I had learnt an awful lot from my Childhood, of what not to do. Certainly not Hate.
Sadly, unbeknown to me, Alcoholism was very firmly entrenched with in. My First Husband was very Violent,a bender Drinker, and because of my previous history, I stood up to him, knowing that I had to protect my Children. Once more, I knew that the Drink was the problem, not understanding any of the other part of it. I tried so hard to stop it from getting into my 3 lives, I thought I did a good job, and I did, with what I had to deal with. The one thing was, I didn't want to bring my 3 up in a house of Hate, which after finding Alanon, I had.
Alanon, answered so many Questions for me, I could understand, finally as to what had happened, to all of us and why. It helped me to forgive myself for my part in all of it, and that of others. It taught me to give myself permission, to Love, and to show Love. I realized I had always had it, but it was buried beneath a lot of stuff. With my 4th Step, I realized,that being me, I was able to teach my 2 Parents to all Love and Affection, through my 3 Children, I didn't have Alanon at that time, but was still able to teach my 3 to give my Parents, hugs, and kisses and affection in their ways with them. My heart broke for them, as I watched them at first be so uncomfortable, when they got the hugs and kisses, but they did get comfortable afterwards. They even expected it, and looked for it. It became natural,as we were always,so far away, and use to drive sometimes for 8 hours each way, just to come home for a weekend to see them. My children, taught them to Love, sadly, because of the way things were, my Parents,never got that from their other Grand Children. Also, my other Brothers and Sisters not getting recovery, like me think I am the weird one, because I can show Love and affection, sadly, I have always been on the outside looking in, with them.
A friend in AA,once asked me, what was my definition of Love. I had to think about it for awhile, and told him, that my Heart was full of Love, and made up of all little draws, and each one of my loved ones have their own special draw. That was theirs, to keep, no one else's, for they are special to me. To finish, a Friend once gave me a Book Mark of the Name of Wendy, and surprise, surprise, the meaning of it,is Love. I have so much to Thank My God, for holding me in His Arms when I was born,always looking after me, and for giving me this wonderful Programme, Called Alanon, and AA.
Love WendyP.
Thank you for sharing what was/is in your heart about this subject. It is wonderful how you have actively led a different emotional life (and in turn taught your children) than how you were raised.