How do you gain control with out controlling the alcoholic?
Lindie said
Jul 31, 2019
I want to take control of our finances, we are always behind because of AH drinking. We both work full time jobs. AH is the one who brings in the most money. I want to be able to get things caught up, some in savings and start saving for our future, but how can I do that without taking control of AH drinking? We have not recovered financially from when he missed almost 6 weeks of work 2 years ago, once behind its awful to get back on track. I want to have the peace of mind and security, because unless AH wants to change, I see myself alone from him passing away from the disease. I am almost 50 and he is 50. I see this as me taking care of myself, I am so worried that it is not helping with my emotional well being and so forth. What has anyone else done while achieving the same goal?
Bo said
Jul 31, 2019
You appear to be collapsing everything with the drinking. The finances and a separate and distinct item, task, responsibility, etc., from the drinking. You are also collapsing your own peace of mind, and security, with controlling the finances.
Why do you seem them as related? OK, so his drinking got you into financial duress, problems, debt, etc. I get that. Yet, you keep talking about his drinking, unless he wants to change, him passing away, and so on.
Why do you feel that trying to "take control" of the finances is tied to taking control of his drinking? Taking control of the finances is simply being responsible for certain tasks, decision making, monitoring, measures, protocols, and the like. That has nothing to do with his drinking. Now, if you are talking about depriving him of money so that he doesn't drink, or it being an effort for you to stop his drinking, that's a completely different story.
Work your program. Work the steps. Doing the work, learning the changes you can make, in your behavior, thinking, actions, reactions, working the steps...all of it...getting better, getting healthy...all of that...takes place in between meetings and outside meetings.
Lindie said
Jul 31, 2019
I am not able to go to a face2face until Sat. The other ones listed in my area are in the mornings except tues. I don't want to deprive him of his money because he makes sure he gets his money every payday. The bottom line is, his drinking has caused this hardship we are in, and I was enabling him by not paying a bill in full just so he could have his money. I am sick and tired of being broke, going with out my medical needs etc. I am trying to turn things around keeping in mind he will not quit. The money he spends a month could go to pay a bill and make things easier for us both. We can't bury each other if something were to happen, that is why I am having such a hard time trying to figure things out. We have no retirement saved up, lack of opportunity and lack of education on how to save when you dont ever have the money in the first place. The night my AH was at work and collapsed, was a combination of him not seeking counseling for his childhood traumas, then trying to self medicate with drinking all caught up with him. All the E.R personnel and his Dr tried to get him to seek treatment and quit his drinking. Then you have Dr's telling him if he stops all of a sudden, that will cause more problems etc. I am just trying to save money some how to have the peace of mind that those expenses will be taken care of whenever it is, trying to gain control for that peace of mind. Right now all I have to go on is what pamphlets I received at the one face2face I went to last sunday. I feel like a fish flopping out of the water trying to figure out how to save myself at this moment. I have no direction right now.
a4l said
Jul 31, 2019
Hugs Lindie. I'm sure finances are a fairly common concern in alcoholic relationships.
a4l said
Jul 31, 2019
I know for me I struggled with it, and tried to save whatever I could without mentioning it. I never was successful at gaining control over what he earned. It is only after physically leaving and gaining my own independence that there is a mutually agreed financial structure.
Groo said
Aug 1, 2019
I used to be where you are. I was worried sick, I saw the disaster coming. He was the main supporter and I hadnt worked in over 10 years. Eventually I got a part-time, dead end, entry job that is currently being phased out. He of course got himself fired from his job, sucked up all of the retirement savings on another two pointless trips to rehab and now delivers food for a living when he isnt taking every other week off to drink. Because we have a joint account, he knows where every dime goes because he watches the account like a hawk. When I get my check, hes always asking for more than half of it to cover bounced checks or to fix something he screwed up. Been married 30+ years and never thought at my age Id be impoverished, entry level, and on the fast track to losing my home. If I hadnt been so worried about his feelings, (like he has any), I would have separated my finances from his, saved what I could, and refused to hand him anything. Yesterday he again wanted money out of my check. I gave him the house note and told him I didnt care what he does with it. Pay the house note, or dont pay the house note, I really dont care. Im tired and am not handing my spending money over to him. Ive got $200 to last me for the next two weeks. Thats food, gas, and emergency money. I hope you dont end up like me.
Lindie said
Aug 1, 2019
We have a joint bank account, but he doesn't want to know where his money goes as long as he has the money to drink. I have shown him how things really are financially several times. I also didn't think I would be in this position either. We just hit our 30th in June. I opened up my own bank account a year ago and have tried to put money in there but it never stays. AH wants a certain dollar amount to have to drink with and other than that he has made the rest of the financials my problem. I don't want it to be my problem anymore. I am trying to not make the same mistakes by enabling him anymore, yet find money to start saving with.
2HP said
Aug 1, 2019
(((Michele))) I am happy to read you will try another meeting.
I can tell you that I went to my first Alanon meeting 20 years BEFORE I finally decided to keep my seat warm there. At that time, my children were babies and I was so defiant and filled with fear and a sense of urgency to "do something"
After 20 years when I went back, I had exhausted personal counseling (counselors are powerless as the rest of us) exhausted self help books, and online help where I couldn't really "witness" recovery reality, just words on my screen... I had no where else to go. Our children were grown and now conditioned by alcoholic insanity (which today I very much regret. yep, I do. they ended up with two insane parents struggling to make sense of something neither understood.)
So I went back just to see what I might glean, giving myself full permission to just walk out (or run) if necessary.
But I didnt walk out and have been going for many years.
My reason for replying to your post is to address your feelings of being overwhelmed, which I remember so vividly... the feeling of me losing control and life spinning out of control. It was not comforting to be told to LET GO and take my hands off which only frightened me more. It made no sense to not "do something" about the mess.
while it made no sense, I had to trust the fellowship (I had nowhere else to go) ... and it wasn't like I hadn't already tried and tried. The first step (of self care) was simply admitting I am fighting a battle that cannot seem to be won! until I finally waved the white flag and admitted "I am powerless".... and seeing myself torn and tattered and wounded... seeing how my life had become so utterly "unmanageable"
This was a necessary admission. "My life is unmanageable." Actually at that time, it was more in capital letters and swear words
"MY BLEEPING LIFE IS BLEEPING UNMANAGEABLE.... OKAY?!!!!!!!!!"
Nonetheless. feeling this HONESTY in my bones was a necessary beginning for me.
After admitting this, they told me the next step is finding a "new manager."
At that time, I was not much of a believer and did not have much hope in anything anymore. So I just began taking walks out in nature, not knowing what else to do with my anger and restlessness and that feeling of urgency.
Going out into nature was soothing and comforting... just driving to the metropark every day and staying with "OMG, life is feeling so unmanageable..." I would park my car and just hit the path
Walk, walk, walk, walk, walk
... hearing the sound of my footfall on the gravel or the pavement ...
Took a few visits before I started lifting my head to look around, noticing the sun sparkles on the water... the birds flying so gracefully overhead... the blades of grass bending in the wind...
I just surrendered to all of this. I just let "it" have me. This is how I recovered "control" over my life.
I did all this walking in between al-anon meetings and calm solutions began to flow in. it never happened while my mind was flashing, "URGENT! URGENT!!" and staring at the stack of bills and late notices.
For now, you might try doing the next most nurturing thing for yourself today... whatever that looks like. Just go where the peace is... letting that power turn your chaos into calm. it is a great recovery paradox: surrender... to win.
And maybe when you walk in to your next meeting, try saying a little affirmation to yourself, "I am open to receiving and going back home with just one small pearl of wisdom here..... I am open to taking home just one comforting thought..."
You may find, as I did, that it was more than I had before walking in. Pray with your hands held OPEN.
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 1st of August 2019 08:22:39 AM
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 1st of August 2019 08:26:34 AM
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 1st of August 2019 11:45:57 AM
Iamhere said
Aug 1, 2019
(((Lindie))) - I too am so glad to hear that you plan to attend another meeting. I can really relate to many parts of 2HP's share. I too had a racing, magnificent, magnifying mind that would just not stop. I too wanted to fix anything/everything as quickly as possible. I am one who had self-esteem tied to controlling, fixing, solutions, etc. I too had to find a way to surrender and let go. It was not possible until I fully admitted I was powerless and I was as insane as the A's in my life! This was not optional - it was necessary as I had spent way too much time throwing blame/shame at the disease and the diseased.
Others in the meetings with tons of grace kept telling me things like, "Rome wasn't built in a day..." and "You can't fix overnight that which has been eroding for years...." It just frustrated me to hear the truth and parts of me felt like a failure, a loser and worse. Yet, those same graceful people in meetings reminded me I was not any of that - I was a child of a HP who loved me unconditionally. They also accepted me as I was, crazy, crying, overwhelmed, angry, etc. and kept telling me I was not alone.
I also walked what feels like a million miles when I began my journey. It was an easy thing to do for self-care. It didn't cost me any money and did help me with my anger and anxiety. I too looked down at my feet for a long while watching them pound the pavement until I didn't. One day, I also observed around me a lovely world, given to us freely to enjoy or not. Small, random self-care actions helped me begin to love me again, and see more clearly how powerless I am over other people, places and things.
So, in situations like you bring here, I really, really came to rely on my sponsor. I would call her with urgent, world-changing issues and she would talk me down and help me to determine what action I could take in this day only, if any. Some days, she simply suggested I just breathe and meditate (felt impossible, but I tried). Other days, we would explore action solutions such as applying for better paying jobs, getting a part-time job, having a garage sale, etc. I had to realize that it is the disease in me that makes life events seem so impossible to manage! Recovery has helped me realize there is always hope and there is always some healthy action I can take!
I too would suggest you do something nice for you! Take a walk, relax in a hot bath, read some literature, call another program member, write a gratitude list, etc. Contemplate the Serenity Prayer, and consider that which you can change vs. that which you can not! (((Hugs)))
Aloha said
Aug 1, 2019
We hear often in Al-Anon not to make any major changes for at least the first six months while we're getting our feet wet in the program.
I agree with this, and like you, I also felt utterly compelled to DO SOMETHING. I was just so uncomfortable with what was going on I felt like wanted to jump out of my skin. That sort of discomfort often lead to compulsive decisions on my part without thinking things through rationally first. As a result I often created more drama and pain in my life than I needed.
One of the tools of this program is to "reason things out with someone else". I see you doing that here right now, actually, so good on you.
Another one of the tools this program gave me was learning to pause. Respond instead of react. That allowed me time to think things through and allowed HP time to come in and show me further information that I needed.
Eventually, I did come to a conclusion that I needed to be fully self supporting (via Tradition Seven), and for me and my peace of mind and security that meant no longer depositing my income into a joint bank account with the alcoholic, as he was definitely blowing through our money - not just on alcohol, but on other compulsive expensive purchases (whatever was the flavor of the month for him.)
This stirred up drama in my life and infuriated the alcoholic, but I did at least know my income was secure and I knew where it was going and if I needed to buy groceries, and pay rent, the money was there.
Finances are a sticky thing even between sober couples. When you throw alcoholism into the mix it gets worse.
I also had a serious lack mentality. I was always fearful of never having enough. My exAH convinced me that it was completely "normal" to live paycheck-to-paycheck. I hated it. I also enabled him a lot despite having separated our finances by covering his half of our bills. I got in so far over my head I racked up significant personal credit card debt because I didn't want to go without electricity, etc. I didn't want to suffer because of his bad decisions.
There was one time where we almost had the electricity shut off on us. He was responsible for that particular bill and of course hadn't paid it for a couple of months. As a result it racked up a heavy fee and was a significant chunk of money that was owed. He'd been home when the power company came by to collect or shut off our power. I'd been at work. He called me wanting me to pay the bill. I could have... added more money to my mounting credit card debt, but this time I didn't. Instead I took out my program tools... told him I'd call him back. Called my sponsor and had a long discussion with her where I voiced my concerns over not having a hot shower and she assured me I could come shower at her place if necessary. Through all of this my ex kept calling on the other line. Finally, I felt brave enough to call him back - tell him "I'm sorry, but I won't be paying it." I came to understand I was going to be okay if we didn't have power for a while. Lo and behold, he managed to pay the bill. He was furious with me for not answering his calls, but he at last had to face the consequences of his poor financial decisions.
So - the point of all that was to emphasize that no matter which way you shift your money around, so long as you're living with an alcoholic, financial problems will still arise, and you will still need to fall back on your program tools again and again to get you through the next obstacle.
Get to meetings, find a sponsor and start working the steps. Get your hands on the Al-Anon literature and read what you can. Read about control. Read about Tradition Seven. Reason out what you've learned from those subjects with your sponsor to help you come up with the best decision for you.
Lindie said
Aug 1, 2019
Thank you everyone , given me a lot to think about. Just 2 more days for my face2face meeting .
tiredtonite said
Aug 4, 2019
Hi Lindie
Fear of financial insecurity and codependency has caused a lot of problems for me. I wish I had know a long time ago that there was no shame in bringing the problem in my home out in the open with financial professionals who could help. Attending Alanon and working the program was only a start for me. I know today that I would have benefited from getting in touch with one of many organizations that offer free services of all kinds including financial advice to women in various stages of their lives who struggle. I would have been able to sit with a counselor and created an individualized plan tailored to my life situation and needs. Instead I haphazardly created my own plan which including cutting back on basic needs, denying myself medical care to save money and hiding what money I could. This caused me constant worry. Had I reached past the rooms of Alanon for help from those specifically trained to offer financial advice and help, I might have not struggled for such a long time.
Looking back, I allowed my thoughts, words, actions to be dependent on the thoughts, words and actions of the alcoholic. I was not thinking for myself, trusting my own thinking or making choices or even believing I had a right to choices that solely benefited ME. It can feel uncomfortable to reach out for help when we are overwhelmed by someone's drinking, the fallout. But just as with Alanon, making a phone call might connect you with someone who understands, can connect you with a meeting and can help with a specific need. A financial planner at an advocacy organization can help with a step by step plan to address day to day needs. Thanks to the Alanon program, I can advocate for myself by seeking outside resources for all kinds of help when needed. Wishing you the best you can give yourself. ((hugs)) TT
I want to take control of our finances, we are always behind because of AH drinking. We both work full time jobs. AH is the one who brings in the most money. I want to be able to get things caught up, some in savings and start saving for our future, but how can I do that without taking control of AH drinking? We have not recovered financially from when he missed almost 6 weeks of work 2 years ago, once behind its awful to get back on track. I want to have the peace of mind and security, because unless AH wants to change, I see myself alone from him passing away from the disease. I am almost 50 and he is 50. I see this as me taking care of myself, I am so worried that it is not helping with my emotional well being and so forth. What has anyone else done while achieving the same goal?
Why do you seem them as related? OK, so his drinking got you into financial duress, problems, debt, etc. I get that. Yet, you keep talking about his drinking, unless he wants to change, him passing away, and so on.
Why do you feel that trying to "take control" of the finances is tied to taking control of his drinking? Taking control of the finances is simply being responsible for certain tasks, decision making, monitoring, measures, protocols, and the like. That has nothing to do with his drinking. Now, if you are talking about depriving him of money so that he doesn't drink, or it being an effort for you to stop his drinking, that's a completely different story.
Work your program. Work the steps. Doing the work, learning the changes you can make, in your behavior, thinking, actions, reactions, working the steps...all of it...getting better, getting healthy...all of that...takes place in between meetings and outside meetings.
We have a joint bank account, but he doesn't want to know where his money goes as long as he has the money to drink. I have shown him how things really are financially several times. I also didn't think I would be in this position either. We just hit our 30th in June. I opened up my own bank account a year ago and have tried to put money in there but it never stays. AH wants a certain dollar amount to have to drink with and other than that he has made the rest of the financials my problem. I don't want it to be my problem anymore. I am trying to not make the same mistakes by enabling him anymore, yet find money to start saving with.
(((Michele))) I am happy to read you will try another meeting.
I can tell you that I went to my first Alanon meeting 20 years BEFORE I finally decided to keep my seat warm there. At that time, my children were babies and I was so defiant and filled with fear and a sense of urgency to "do something"
After 20 years when I went back, I had exhausted personal counseling (counselors are powerless as the rest of us) exhausted self help books, and online help where I couldn't really "witness" recovery reality, just words on my screen... I had no where else to go. Our children were grown and now conditioned by alcoholic insanity (which today I very much regret. yep, I do. they ended up with two insane parents struggling to make sense of something neither understood.)
So I went back just to see what I might glean, giving myself full permission to just walk out (or run) if necessary.
But I didnt walk out and have been going for many years.
My reason for replying to your post is to address your feelings of being overwhelmed, which I remember so vividly... the feeling of me losing control and life spinning out of control. It was not comforting to be told to LET GO and take my hands off which only frightened me more. It made no sense to not "do something" about the mess.
while it made no sense, I had to trust the fellowship (I had nowhere else to go) ... and it wasn't like I hadn't already tried and tried. The first step (of self care) was simply admitting I am fighting a battle that cannot seem to be won! until I finally waved the white flag and admitted "I am powerless".... and seeing myself torn and tattered and wounded... seeing how my life had become so utterly "unmanageable"
This was a necessary admission. "My life is unmanageable." Actually at that time, it was more in capital letters and swear words
"MY BLEEPING LIFE IS BLEEPING UNMANAGEABLE.... OKAY?!!!!!!!!!"
Nonetheless. feeling this HONESTY in my bones was a necessary beginning for me.
After admitting this, they told me the next step is finding a "new manager."
At that time, I was not much of a believer and did not have much hope in anything anymore. So I just began taking walks out in nature, not knowing what else to do with my anger and restlessness and that feeling of urgency.
Going out into nature was soothing and comforting... just driving to the metropark every day and staying with "OMG, life is feeling so unmanageable..." I would park my car and just hit the path
Walk, walk, walk, walk, walk
... hearing the sound of my footfall on the gravel or the pavement ...
Took a few visits before I started lifting my head to look around, noticing the sun sparkles on the water... the birds flying so gracefully overhead... the blades of grass bending in the wind...
I just surrendered to all of this. I just let "it" have me. This is how I recovered "control" over my life.
I did all this walking in between al-anon meetings and calm solutions began to flow in. it never happened while my mind was flashing, "URGENT! URGENT!!" and staring at the stack of bills and late notices.
For now, you might try doing the next most nurturing thing for yourself today... whatever that looks like. Just go where the peace is... letting that power turn your chaos into calm. it is a great recovery paradox: surrender... to win.
And maybe when you walk in to your next meeting, try saying a little affirmation to yourself, "I am open to receiving and going back home with just one small pearl of wisdom here..... I am open to taking home just one comforting thought..."
You may find, as I did, that it was more than I had before walking in. Pray with your hands held OPEN.
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 1st of August 2019 08:22:39 AM
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 1st of August 2019 08:26:34 AM
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 1st of August 2019 11:45:57 AM
Others in the meetings with tons of grace kept telling me things like, "Rome wasn't built in a day..." and "You can't fix overnight that which has been eroding for years...." It just frustrated me to hear the truth and parts of me felt like a failure, a loser and worse. Yet, those same graceful people in meetings reminded me I was not any of that - I was a child of a HP who loved me unconditionally. They also accepted me as I was, crazy, crying, overwhelmed, angry, etc. and kept telling me I was not alone.
I also walked what feels like a million miles when I began my journey. It was an easy thing to do for self-care. It didn't cost me any money and did help me with my anger and anxiety. I too looked down at my feet for a long while watching them pound the pavement until I didn't. One day, I also observed around me a lovely world, given to us freely to enjoy or not. Small, random self-care actions helped me begin to love me again, and see more clearly how powerless I am over other people, places and things.
So, in situations like you bring here, I really, really came to rely on my sponsor. I would call her with urgent, world-changing issues and she would talk me down and help me to determine what action I could take in this day only, if any. Some days, she simply suggested I just breathe and meditate (felt impossible, but I tried). Other days, we would explore action solutions such as applying for better paying jobs, getting a part-time job, having a garage sale, etc. I had to realize that it is the disease in me that makes life events seem so impossible to manage! Recovery has helped me realize there is always hope and there is always some healthy action I can take!
I too would suggest you do something nice for you! Take a walk, relax in a hot bath, read some literature, call another program member, write a gratitude list, etc. Contemplate the Serenity Prayer, and consider that which you can change vs. that which you can not! (((Hugs)))
I agree with this, and like you, I also felt utterly compelled to DO SOMETHING. I was just so uncomfortable with what was going on I felt like wanted to jump out of my skin. That sort of discomfort often lead to compulsive decisions on my part without thinking things through rationally first. As a result I often created more drama and pain in my life than I needed.
One of the tools of this program is to "reason things out with someone else". I see you doing that here right now, actually, so good on you.
Another one of the tools this program gave me was learning to pause. Respond instead of react. That allowed me time to think things through and allowed HP time to come in and show me further information that I needed.
Eventually, I did come to a conclusion that I needed to be fully self supporting (via Tradition Seven), and for me and my peace of mind and security that meant no longer depositing my income into a joint bank account with the alcoholic, as he was definitely blowing through our money - not just on alcohol, but on other compulsive expensive purchases (whatever was the flavor of the month for him.)
This stirred up drama in my life and infuriated the alcoholic, but I did at least know my income was secure and I knew where it was going and if I needed to buy groceries, and pay rent, the money was there.
Finances are a sticky thing even between sober couples. When you throw alcoholism into the mix it gets worse.
I also had a serious lack mentality. I was always fearful of never having enough. My exAH convinced me that it was completely "normal" to live paycheck-to-paycheck. I hated it. I also enabled him a lot despite having separated our finances by covering his half of our bills. I got in so far over my head I racked up significant personal credit card debt because I didn't want to go without electricity, etc. I didn't want to suffer because of his bad decisions.
There was one time where we almost had the electricity shut off on us. He was responsible for that particular bill and of course hadn't paid it for a couple of months. As a result it racked up a heavy fee and was a significant chunk of money that was owed. He'd been home when the power company came by to collect or shut off our power. I'd been at work. He called me wanting me to pay the bill. I could have... added more money to my mounting credit card debt, but this time I didn't. Instead I took out my program tools... told him I'd call him back. Called my sponsor and had a long discussion with her where I voiced my concerns over not having a hot shower and she assured me I could come shower at her place if necessary. Through all of this my ex kept calling on the other line. Finally, I felt brave enough to call him back - tell him "I'm sorry, but I won't be paying it." I came to understand I was going to be okay if we didn't have power for a while. Lo and behold, he managed to pay the bill. He was furious with me for not answering his calls, but he at last had to face the consequences of his poor financial decisions.
So - the point of all that was to emphasize that no matter which way you shift your money around, so long as you're living with an alcoholic, financial problems will still arise, and you will still need to fall back on your program tools again and again to get you through the next obstacle.
Get to meetings, find a sponsor and start working the steps. Get your hands on the Al-Anon literature and read what you can. Read about control. Read about Tradition Seven. Reason out what you've learned from those subjects with your sponsor to help you come up with the best decision for you.
Hi Lindie
Fear of financial insecurity and codependency has caused a lot of problems for me. I wish I had know a long time ago that there was no shame in bringing the problem in my home out in the open with financial professionals who could help. Attending Alanon and working the program was only a start for me. I know today that I would have benefited from getting in touch with one of many organizations that offer free services of all kinds including financial advice to women in various stages of their lives who struggle. I would have been able to sit with a counselor and created an individualized plan tailored to my life situation and needs. Instead I haphazardly created my own plan which including cutting back on basic needs, denying myself medical care to save money and hiding what money I could. This caused me constant worry. Had I reached past the rooms of Alanon for help from those specifically trained to offer financial advice and help, I might have not struggled for such a long time.
Looking back, I allowed my thoughts, words, actions to be dependent on the thoughts, words and actions of the alcoholic. I was not thinking for myself, trusting my own thinking or making choices or even believing I had a right to choices that solely benefited ME. It can feel uncomfortable to reach out for help when we are overwhelmed by someone's drinking, the fallout. But just as with Alanon, making a phone call might connect you with someone who understands, can connect you with a meeting and can help with a specific need. A financial planner at an advocacy organization can help with a step by step plan to address day to day needs. Thanks to the Alanon program, I can advocate for myself by seeking outside resources for all kinds of help when needed. Wishing you the best you can give yourself. ((hugs)) TT