Just a question on how you all deal with the lies and deception from the alcoholic? Im having a very hard time with it. For me its kind of a no brainer that if someone lies and is deceitful with you, then theres really no true relationship, especially in a marriage. How do you continue to be in a marriage when the other person , albeit sick with the disease, keeps on lying and deceiving? How can you possibly have any type of bond with that person? I dont get it. I just uncovered more lies and deceit, and am getting the backlash now- that Im the one causing the problems. Yet I know the truth. Sooo, how do you deal with this? Any shares would be greatly appreciated....
2HP said
Jul 28, 2019
(((Elabella))) I remember this very well.
dwelling on HIS deception made me miserably angry (and helpless.) I realized he had deceived from the very beginning of our relationship.
But Al-anon asked me to look at myself, so I turned my angry statement onto myself: "I am angry at (myself instead of HIM) for deceiving me..."
when I saw all the ways I had deceived myself (like, seeing only what I wanted to see as opposed to reality, for instance...). I then had something to work with. I could "make amends" to myself...and him!
This work has led to the peaceful life I enjoy today. the same is waiting for you. My ESH is, the 12 steps have the power to change your life. I just wanted to share that hope with you (((hugs)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Sunday 28th of July 2019 11:43:21 AM
a4l said
Jul 28, 2019
Acceptance. I had to accept I was complicit in the deceit by choosing to entwine myself with another who wasn't capable of anything better. Once I truly accepted that, I stopped putting my hope in fantasies and started building my own reservoirs. I had to detach myself emotionally and disentangle myself physically and tangibly. Sharing plans ended. Sharing childcare ended. Sharing future goals ended. Relying on another ended.
What does that leave?
The realisation that I am responsible for me. That when I choose to believe in anything that is proven to be unlikely to eventuate as planned, the outcome is not worth disappointment. I don't do disappointment very well, so I am now very careful what I invest myself in from the outset. As I have changed, my way of relating has changed. And the way I am treated has changed. I have learned that words are a precious resource and I use them carefully. I state what I want and if I don't get it, each party knows that I'm not dependent on their co-operation in any event for my own wellbeing. If they themselves want something of me, it is up to them to decide how they will respond. I decide if I'm prepared to accept that response.
It is a constant process. Keep showing up for your own recovery, eventually everything you learn ties in together. I will say for me personally, I could not progress without physically leaving. Living with the insanity of another's self delusion tainted my essence, blocked my pathways. It was not easy to start again but now, in hindsight it wasn't terribly difficult either once the initial hardships were faced. Take good care of you.
sad_dog_mommy said
Jul 28, 2019
After many, many disappointments I finally learned it wasnt what HE did, it was how I reacted.
My exbf was an alcoholic who was also diagnosed with BPD (borderline personality disorder). He lied about everything from big things to small things. He couldnt keep a job. Had fractured relationships with his family and had lots of debt that he hid from me. He doctor shopped for pain pills and when he had a stint of sobriety, he switched his addiction to eating and online shopping.
There was nothing more I could do and al-anon helped me learn the steps to turn my codependent focus on him around to help (save) myself. I was drowning and I didnt know it because I was so hyper focused on fixing/rescuing/enabling him. I had to be brutally honest with myself and face the fact that I was in an unhealthy relationship and that I couldnt keep fixing things. He had to want to fix his own problems himself.
((( hug )))
Iamhere said
Jul 28, 2019
Al-Anon suggests we focus on self. I practiced this as best I could and anytime I had a question, a topic, a problem, etc. that I wanted to discuss with my A, I paused and talked with my sponsor first. Our family had a history of fighting, arguing, drama/chaos and I contributed to that. My sponsor helped me learn how to pick my battles, examine my motives, and stop asking questions to 'catch him', 'probe him', 'enable him', 'be right'.
Over time, I stopped asking questions unless it was necessary and instead made statements using I instead of You. I learned how to say what I meant, mean what I say and not say it mean. I stopped asking what others wanted for dinner and at what time, and just cooked what I wanted and planned a time. I stopped trying to force solutions, conversations, and the like and truly stopped trying to control everything and everyone.
I also stumbled upon deception along the way. I didn't drill another about it, nor did I shy away from it. I laid it down and just suggested that I was not responsible for 'this' and hoped it would be managed soon. I learned that when I stopped asking questions and prying, I didn't have to hear the lies. What's funny is just today, my husband spilled the beans about something from a few years ago that I didn't even know. That's how much things here have changed. Because I am independent, happy, pleasant and not nagging, controlling, fretting and freaking out all the time, he actually has more trust in me than before.
It's so easy (our part of the disease) to look outside ourselves for all the issues, problems, etc. When I got busy, I got better and things improved here drastically. Far from perfect, but what is. Helping ourselves get healthy opens up a brand new world and we are worth it!
Bo said
Jul 29, 2019
In my experience...one person's "unacceptable"...is another person's "acceptable"...
PosiesandPuppies said
Jul 29, 2019
(((((Elabella))))
Such wisdom has been shared with you! My ESH is that these lightbulb moments may not come straightforward or even easy for you. Be patient, and follow the Steps/Program, as it helps you to see and understand YOU. It helps you to concentrate on YOU. That alone, can help ease the insanity. However, that being said, I understand what you mean when you talk of "Trust in a Marriage." What do you do when that trust of many, many years has been broken... repeatedly? That is where the understanding of SELF is important, IMHO. In my case, I decided that my marriage was beyond repair BECAUSE of the lies, deceit, and loss of TRUST... not necessarily by the disease. I separated. It was good for the soul to disengage that way. After 4 months, my spouse entered rehab (his second time). It was only through a complete and honest inventory of myself (STEP 4 w/ sponsor), that I realized my "unacceptable." And it didn't come easy admitting it (I felt "lesser" somehow)... I could not handle the possibility/eventuality of relapse, period. I had to accept that about MYSELF. Once I did, I knew in my heart that not being married to my spouse was the right thing for me and my Kid. What probably took the longest and was the most difficult was the grieving process of losing the "dream" of my marriage... b/c in reality, my long marriage wasn't really that great... it was tiny moments of good surrounded by tons of chaos.
How I dealt with it? First it was denial. Then it was acceptance w/ me trying to change him. Then it was acceptance and The "Grey Rock" Method. Then it was Detachment w/ anger. Then that morphed into Detachment w/Indifference... that was when I knew I had to separate & work on myself. There is a saying I believe is true... "What is the opposite of Love? Not anger, it is indifference."
&
SerenityRUS said
Jul 29, 2019
I honestly believe in the moment of discussion that the A actually believes what they are saying and then it becomes semantics. It's always just enough truth to make it true enough for the A and yet there are key points missing.
For me and my X to this day I believe probably 50% of what he says because I know from past experience more will be revealed, in my reactions to the other 50% of what is true, I have learned to have more patience and not to jump before getting the other 50%. Waiting for the rest of the truth makes me feel less edgy and anxious as I trust my HP. I usually get way more information by waiting. What I choose to do with that information is up to me and that is where I always have to check in with my motives of needing to know. For me I find I want it as the back up to I'm right, that's not always the cleanest motive. It's hard to be in a marriage where I was told not to believe what I was seeing. I grew up that way as well so I need that self validation that it's really him not me kind of stuff. I don't know if that's healthy, it does help me understand that just because he says something doesn't make it true .. it also doesn't make it 100% false either.
It's ironic this has come up because I am dealing with my oldest at the moment and I'm very much not pleased in some of the behavior I am seeing and some of what's going on is going is causing issues with my X and I. The huge irony is my X is completely innocent in this situation from what I can see and the conflict is being chosen by my oldest child for some reason that I can't put my finger on. So there will be a conversation that my oldest will not enjoy and now that I have enough information to fill in the blanks that were left on purpose to say .. this is not ok. He's going to have to decide how to move forward.
Anyway, thank you for bringing this up because I had "forgotten" having to deal with my X on this and I need to look at my current situation as well as my motivation at the moment.
S :)
KT2015 said
Jul 29, 2019
Hi Ellabella,
I do live with an AH but I have to say that I don't live with a lot of lies and deception. The only thing I know he will lie about and hide is his drinking. The recycling will be gone when he has come home early from work and drank as much as he could before I come home. Or he will say something random like "I've only had one beer today" and I'm pretty sure that's not accurate. I decided a while ago his drinking is his responsibility. I don't respond to any of it I focus on what I want to do instead. That is the only lie or deception that I can think of that I have dealt with in my marriage so far so that is the only ESH I have.
Aloha said
Jul 30, 2019
Iamhere wrote:
I learned that when I stopped asking questions and prying, I didn't have to hear the lies.
...Because I am independent, happy, pleasant and not nagging, controlling, fretting and freaking out all the time, he actually has more trust in me than before.
It's so easy (our part of the disease) to look outside ourselves for all the issues, problems, etc. When I got busy, I got better and things improved here drastically. Far from perfect, but what is. Helping ourselves get healthy opens up a brand new world and we are worth it!
I went through it all, too. Lies piled on top of lies, and it was a real battle with MY ego to let it go. I likened myself to a predator all the time... any time I thought I sniffed a lie, I was on the hunt. I'd dig up details, snoop through emails, phone records, internet usage, etc. to justify my case, and then I'd unload on the alcoholic.
Did I feel better doing this?
Absolutely not. I felt like a monster and a crazy person, and all I managed to do was start fights that way.
My sponsor had to tell me "You are not allowed to snoop." Even then it was hard, because I knew I was being lied to over and over again and again.
But as others said, focusing on HIM and HIS problems was doing nothing for me and my recovery. The alcoholic is going to do what the alcoholic is going to do. He is NOT going to change, at least not through any effort on my part. So what can I do for myself?
I quoted IAH because she's got it nailed down.
When I stop trying to control my life gets better - and catching the alcoholic in lies, confronting him on his lies, focusing on his lies is CONTROL.
When I put my energy into taking care of myself and being of service by taking up a service position in Al-Anon, I continued to get better. When I worked the steps with my sponsor, I kept getting better. The less I took on the alcoholic's garbage and allowed him to fall and face his own consequences where his dishonesty was concerned, the better I got.
Lyne said
Jul 30, 2019
Hi Ellabella-You have been given a great deal of ESH which I agree with and relate (again) to your share. I live with a dry drunk (not drinking at the moment) but no alcohol treatment. So the personality is exactly the same as if the person was drinking, which includes lies and deception. My sponsor taught me not to have expectations and to put my energy into healing myself. Thats what Im doing most of the time and although I point out the anger and lies, it no longer brings me to my knees. With alanon I am a much stronger and happier person, no matter what the alcoholic is doing. We are getting help separately and together. As much as I am able, I am taking ODAT and Im able to see my blessings every day. If you need to leave your spouse that is a decision only you can make, but I would suggest involvement in alanon for you, F2F meetings, a sponsor, etc., before making any huge decisions. Give yourself some time to get strong and do some healing, Lyne
2HP said
Jul 30, 2019
I believe every member who has responded with personal ESH has it equally nailed down.
For me, recovering from being "affected" by alcoholic relationships took off AFTER I really started following the simple suggestions of the 12 steps and step one for ME is honestly seeing MYSELF (just like in AA) ...
In Al-anon, I look at myself in the alcoholic relationship, seeing that when he does this, it causes ME to feel like that, or do that, or whatever...
the example of snooping has been used here so when I went looking for trouble, I was sure to find it but then what? I was very angry because I was so powerless to stop him from doing any of it... the drinking ....or his lies.
Powerless.
What helped instead (and gave me power) was seeing the DISTRUST inside me... how I wanted to snoop because I had no trust... and then feeling real compassion for my own heart... having zero trust in a man I was calling my "husband."
Denying my distrust or looking the other way did not work for me.
We have a slogan, "Let it begin with me." so when I am hurting (life feeling unmanageable) I try to honestly see myself suffering... put my hand over my own heart... practice lots of patience and self-love and self-compassion... The answers bubble up on their own. "Nature does not hurry. yet everything is accomplished." -Lao Tzu
Bo said
Jul 31, 2019
To some people lies and deception are unacceptable. To others they are not (they are "OK" so to speak, acceptable, not a big deal, or whatever other descriptive narrative one might attach to it.
In my experience, each group can look at and view the other without a complete understanding. I find that sad.
I think that is potentially, partially, the byproduct of "the tail wagging the dog" syndrome.
-- Edited by Bo on Wednesday 31st of July 2019 02:08:28 PM
Iamhere said
Jul 31, 2019
Ellabella - I found this below that may help you realize that lying is (not excused, justified or acceptable) a part of the disease. Again, you are not alone in feeling what you're feeling about the disease and the diseased. Nobody I know in recovery just decides it's acceptable, but rather focuses on self to heal/deal with life on life's terms.
I suspect if I walked away from everyone who ever deceived me in small or large ways, I'd be standing alone. I would be even further isolated if those I deceived walked away from me. I prefer to live recovery as taught - Trust God, Clean House and Help Others. As always, take what you like and leave the rest.
As another tool, there are many great Al-Anon speakers who share their stories on YouTube! Again, not a substitution for attending meetings or working the program with a sponsor - just another way to augment your toolbox!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alcohol addiction causes distorted thinking. Many people with the disorder lie and blame others for their actions. It is a hurtful reality that many families experience. But knowing the behavioral consequences of alcohol addiction can help people understand the disease and help loved ones seek treatment.
Denial is a common outcome of alcoholism. The disease affects neurochemistry, and alcoholics typically refuse to believe they have an alcohol use disorder. In some instances, their denial causes them to fail to recognize how their substance abuse is affecting their lives.
These individuals may become offended or enraged if someone suggests they may have a drinking problem. Denial is a defense mechanism for people suffering from addiction, and it is one factor that can keep them from seeking life-saving treatment.
Blame Is an Outcome of Denial:
Many people with alcohol addiction grapple with guilt and anger, which can lead to blame. People may blame loved ones or employers for causing stress that led to their drinking problems. Or they may point the finger at a friend or co-worker for buying them a beer in the past.
A persons denial spurs blame. For some, blaming others protects them from taking responsibility themselves. Denial, blame and dishonesty may anger loved ones, but it is important to understand that these actions are a product of the disease rather than a true representation of the persons character.
Lying Is a Characteristic of Alcoholism:
Many people with alcohol addiction lie to hide their drinking habits or the severity of their addiction. They may say they worked late when they really spent time at a bar. Or they may say theyve only had one beer when theyve actually had many more.
Lying is common among people with alcoholism. For these individuals, dishonesty can be intentional or unintentional. They may lie to simultaneously maintain their drinking habits and their relationships with loved ones. They may also engage in evasion, deception and manipulation to distort the truth about their alcoholism.
Alcoholism Is Stigmatized:
Many people today do not view addiction as a disease, which it is. Some believe it is a moral problem. And much of society places blame on people with alcoholism. This stigma creates shame, guilt and fear in individuals who are addicted to alcohol. As a result, many people hide their disease from the public.
People with an alcohol addiction may lie to mask shame or to avoid ridicule from their peers. In some cases, stigma causes people with alcoholism to avoid rehab. A 2007 study by the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse showed that 37 percent of college students avoided seeking substance abuse treatment for fear of stigma.
Fear of Change Can Lead to Lying or Blaming Others:
Many people with the disorder are reluctant to seek rehab, partly because alcohol is a central part of their life. They are not ready to stop drinking. And they know that rehab could compromise their relationship with alcohol.
Individuals with alcohol problems go to great lengths to avoid change. As a result, they lie about their drinking or blame others for their problems. However, these behaviors can fracture their relationships, threaten their employment and exacerbate their addiction.
In many cases, the blaming and lying will not stop until the alcoholic admits to having a drinking problem. To help these individuals consider rehab, many families hold interventions. These meetings allow family members to persuade a loved one to seek help for addiction.
Shedding the stigma associated with addiction may reduce the reluctance to seek treatment. Without guilt and fear, alcoholics may not feel the need to lie or blame others for their problems. Instead, they might be more open about their drinking problems and more motivated to seek resources for alcoholics.
Completing alcohol rehab is a proven method for overcoming alcoholism. In rehab, people undergo alcohol detox, learn about the dangers of alcoholism and find new ways to avoid drinking. They also learn how to live healthy lives without alcohol.
Coping with Anothers Alcoholism:
The effects of alcoholism on families include stress, anxiety and depression. For help coping with negative emotions related to your loved ones drinking problems, consider attending Al-Anon or another 12-step program for friends and family members of alcoholics. These support groups allow you to interact with people in similar situations. You can also learn strategies to alleviate stress and manage strains on your mental health.
Aloha said
Aug 1, 2019
Great post, IAH. Thank you.
PosiesandPuppies said
Aug 1, 2019
That is a great post, Iamhere! Thank you for posting!
If I may, I would like to add one thing (taken from my experience):
Addiction rehab teaches those affected how to live their life honestly. They learn tools on how to stop engaging in these negative behaviors mentioned above.
2HP said
Aug 1, 2019
Yes, I have never seen that list either, thank you IAM.
when I worked the steps in proper order... one through twelve... that **gradual** process asked me to understand the disease. In the BEGINNING though, it was helpful when they asked me to just keep focus on me and my feelings about being "affected" ... noticing all the tension and discomfort in my body, etc. I could not heal until I gave myself full permission to start feeling the feelings ( coming out of denial) instead of my usual old minimizing tactics or sweeping my feelings under the rug... my own deception.... I had suffered this way my entire life. Now they were asking me to shine a flashlight on ME (mind, body and spirit) being affected.
I have come to believe that close intimate relationships work and work BEST when they are mutually understanding, mutually respectful, mutually tactful, mutually reliable, mutually loyal, etc. But also recognize there are no cookie-cutter journeys in life.
Through my friendship with many AA members, I've been able to understand my former AH and what motivated his attitudes and behaviors... and then identifying with those behaviors myself. This understanding has led to softening and forgiveness and compassion for us BOTH....... for lying and deceiving me.
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 1st of August 2019 10:39:52 AM
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 1st of August 2019 11:44:30 AM
(((Elabella))) I remember this very well.
dwelling on HIS deception made me miserably angry (and helpless.) I realized he had deceived from the very beginning of our relationship.
But Al-anon asked me to look at myself, so I turned my angry statement onto myself: "I am angry at (myself instead of HIM) for deceiving me..."
when I saw all the ways I had deceived myself (like, seeing only what I wanted to see as opposed to reality, for instance...). I then had something to work with. I could "make amends" to myself...and him!
This work has led to the peaceful life I enjoy today. the same is waiting for you. My ESH is, the 12 steps have the power to change your life. I just wanted to share that hope with you (((hugs)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Sunday 28th of July 2019 11:43:21 AM
My exbf was an alcoholic who was also diagnosed with BPD (borderline personality disorder). He lied about everything from big things to small things. He couldnt keep a job. Had fractured relationships with his family and had lots of debt that he hid from me. He doctor shopped for pain pills and when he had a stint of sobriety, he switched his addiction to eating and online shopping.
There was nothing more I could do and al-anon helped me learn the steps to turn my codependent focus on him around to help (save) myself. I was drowning and I didnt know it because I was so hyper focused on fixing/rescuing/enabling him. I had to be brutally honest with myself and face the fact that I was in an unhealthy relationship and that I couldnt keep fixing things. He had to want to fix his own problems himself.
((( hug )))
Over time, I stopped asking questions unless it was necessary and instead made statements using I instead of You. I learned how to say what I meant, mean what I say and not say it mean. I stopped asking what others wanted for dinner and at what time, and just cooked what I wanted and planned a time. I stopped trying to force solutions, conversations, and the like and truly stopped trying to control everything and everyone.
I also stumbled upon deception along the way. I didn't drill another about it, nor did I shy away from it. I laid it down and just suggested that I was not responsible for 'this' and hoped it would be managed soon. I learned that when I stopped asking questions and prying, I didn't have to hear the lies. What's funny is just today, my husband spilled the beans about something from a few years ago that I didn't even know. That's how much things here have changed. Because I am independent, happy, pleasant and not nagging, controlling, fretting and freaking out all the time, he actually has more trust in me than before.
It's so easy (our part of the disease) to look outside ourselves for all the issues, problems, etc. When I got busy, I got better and things improved here drastically. Far from perfect, but what is. Helping ourselves get healthy opens up a brand new world and we are worth it!
(((((Elabella))))
Such wisdom has been shared with you! My ESH is that these lightbulb moments may not come straightforward or even easy for you. Be patient, and follow the Steps/Program, as it helps you to see and understand YOU. It helps you to concentrate on YOU. That alone, can help ease the insanity. However, that being said, I understand what you mean when you talk of "Trust in a Marriage."
What do you do when that trust of many, many years has been broken... repeatedly? That is where the understanding of SELF is important, IMHO.
In my case, I decided that my marriage was beyond repair BECAUSE of the lies, deceit, and loss of TRUST... not necessarily by the disease. I separated. It was good for the soul to disengage that way. After 4 months, my spouse entered rehab (his second time). It was only through a complete and honest inventory of myself (STEP 4 w/ sponsor), that I realized my "unacceptable." And it didn't come easy admitting it (I felt "lesser" somehow)... I could not handle the possibility/eventuality of relapse, period. I had to accept that about MYSELF. Once I did, I knew in my heart that not being married to my spouse was the right thing for me and my Kid. What probably took the longest and was the most difficult was the grieving process of losing the "dream" of my marriage... b/c in reality, my long marriage wasn't really that great... it was tiny moments of good surrounded by tons of chaos.
How I dealt with it? First it was denial. Then it was acceptance w/ me trying to change him. Then it was acceptance and The "Grey Rock" Method. Then it was Detachment w/ anger. Then that morphed into Detachment w/Indifference... that was when I knew I had to separate & work on myself. There is a saying I believe is true... "What is the opposite of Love? Not anger, it is indifference."
& 
For me and my X to this day I believe probably 50% of what he says because I know from past experience more will be revealed, in my reactions to the other 50% of what is true, I have learned to have more patience and not to jump before getting the other 50%. Waiting for the rest of the truth makes me feel less edgy and anxious as I trust my HP. I usually get way more information by waiting. What I choose to do with that information is up to me and that is where I always have to check in with my motives of needing to know. For me I find I want it as the back up to I'm right, that's not always the cleanest motive. It's hard to be in a marriage where I was told not to believe what I was seeing. I grew up that way as well so I need that self validation that it's really him not me kind of stuff. I don't know if that's healthy, it does help me understand that just because he says something doesn't make it true .. it also doesn't make it 100% false either.
It's ironic this has come up because I am dealing with my oldest at the moment and I'm very much not pleased in some of the behavior I am seeing and some of what's going on is going is causing issues with my X and I. The huge irony is my X is completely innocent in this situation from what I can see and the conflict is being chosen by my oldest child for some reason that I can't put my finger on. So there will be a conversation that my oldest will not enjoy and now that I have enough information to fill in the blanks that were left on purpose to say .. this is not ok. He's going to have to decide how to move forward.
Anyway, thank you for bringing this up because I had "forgotten" having to deal with my X on this and I need to look at my current situation as well as my motivation at the moment.
S :)
I do live with an AH but I have to say that I don't live with a lot of lies and deception. The only thing I know he will lie about and hide is his drinking. The recycling will be gone when he has come home early from work and drank as much as he could before I come home. Or he will say something random like "I've only had one beer today" and I'm pretty sure that's not accurate. I decided a while ago his drinking is his responsibility. I don't respond to any of it I focus on what I want to do instead. That is the only lie or deception that I can think of that I have dealt with in my marriage so far so that is the only ESH I have.
I went through it all, too. Lies piled on top of lies, and it was a real battle with MY ego to let it go. I likened myself to a predator all the time... any time I thought I sniffed a lie, I was on the hunt. I'd dig up details, snoop through emails, phone records, internet usage, etc. to justify my case, and then I'd unload on the alcoholic.
Did I feel better doing this?
Absolutely not. I felt like a monster and a crazy person, and all I managed to do was start fights that way.
My sponsor had to tell me "You are not allowed to snoop." Even then it was hard, because I knew I was being lied to over and over again and again.
But as others said, focusing on HIM and HIS problems was doing nothing for me and my recovery. The alcoholic is going to do what the alcoholic is going to do. He is NOT going to change, at least not through any effort on my part. So what can I do for myself?
I quoted IAH because she's got it nailed down.
When I stop trying to control my life gets better - and catching the alcoholic in lies, confronting him on his lies, focusing on his lies is CONTROL.
When I put my energy into taking care of myself and being of service by taking up a service position in Al-Anon, I continued to get better. When I worked the steps with my sponsor, I kept getting better. The less I took on the alcoholic's garbage and allowed him to fall and face his own consequences where his dishonesty was concerned, the better I got.
For me, recovering from being "affected" by alcoholic relationships took off AFTER I really started following the simple suggestions of the 12 steps and step one for ME is honestly seeing MYSELF (just like in AA) ...
In Al-anon, I look at myself in the alcoholic relationship, seeing that when he does this, it causes ME to feel like that, or do that, or whatever...
the example of snooping has been used here so when I went looking for trouble, I was sure to find it but then what? I was very angry because I was so powerless to stop him from doing any of it... the drinking ....or his lies.
Powerless.
What helped instead (and gave me power) was seeing the DISTRUST inside me... how I wanted to snoop because I had no trust... and then feeling real compassion for my own heart... having zero trust in a man I was calling my "husband."
Denying my distrust or looking the other way did not work for me.
We have a slogan, "Let it begin with me." so when I am hurting (life feeling unmanageable) I try to honestly see myself suffering... put my hand over my own heart... practice lots of patience and self-love and self-compassion... The answers bubble up on their own. "Nature does not hurry. yet everything is accomplished." -Lao Tzu
To some people lies and deception are unacceptable. To others they are not (they are "OK" so to speak, acceptable, not a big deal, or whatever other descriptive narrative one might attach to it.
In my experience, each group can look at and view the other without a complete understanding. I find that sad.
I think that is potentially, partially, the byproduct of "the tail wagging the dog" syndrome.
-- Edited by Bo on Wednesday 31st of July 2019 02:08:28 PM
I suspect if I walked away from everyone who ever deceived me in small or large ways, I'd be standing alone. I would be even further isolated if those I deceived walked away from me. I prefer to live recovery as taught - Trust God, Clean House and Help Others. As always, take what you like and leave the rest.
As another tool, there are many great Al-Anon speakers who share their stories on YouTube! Again, not a substitution for attending meetings or working the program with a sponsor - just another way to augment your toolbox!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alcohol addiction causes distorted thinking. Many people with the disorder lie and blame others for their actions. It is a hurtful reality that many families experience. But knowing the behavioral consequences of alcohol addiction can help people understand the disease and help loved ones seek treatment.
Denial is a common outcome of alcoholism. The disease affects neurochemistry, and alcoholics typically refuse to believe they have an alcohol use disorder. In some instances, their denial causes them to fail to recognize how their substance abuse is affecting their lives.
These individuals may become offended or enraged if someone suggests they may have a drinking problem. Denial is a defense mechanism for people suffering from addiction, and it is one factor that can keep them from seeking life-saving treatment.
Blame Is an Outcome of Denial:
Many people with alcohol addiction grapple with guilt and anger, which can lead to blame. People may blame loved ones or employers for causing stress that led to their drinking problems. Or they may point the finger at a friend or co-worker for buying them a beer in the past.
A persons denial spurs blame. For some, blaming others protects them from taking responsibility themselves. Denial, blame and dishonesty may anger loved ones, but it is important to understand that these actions are a product of the disease rather than a true representation of the persons character.
Lying Is a Characteristic of Alcoholism:
Many people with alcohol addiction lie to hide their drinking habits or the severity of their addiction. They may say they worked late when they really spent time at a bar. Or they may say theyve only had one beer when theyve actually had many more.
Lying is common among people with alcoholism. For these individuals, dishonesty can be intentional or unintentional. They may lie to simultaneously maintain their drinking habits and their relationships with loved ones. They may also engage in evasion, deception and manipulation to distort the truth about their alcoholism.
Alcoholism Is Stigmatized:
Many people today do not view addiction as a disease, which it is. Some believe it is a moral problem. And much of society places blame on people with alcoholism. This stigma creates shame, guilt and fear in individuals who are addicted to alcohol. As a result, many people hide their disease from the public.
People with an alcohol addiction may lie to mask shame or to avoid ridicule from their peers. In some cases, stigma causes people with alcoholism to avoid rehab. A 2007 study by the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse showed that 37 percent of college students avoided seeking substance abuse treatment for fear of stigma.
Fear of Change Can Lead to Lying or Blaming Others:
Many people with the disorder are reluctant to seek rehab, partly because alcohol is a central part of their life. They are not ready to stop drinking. And they know that rehab could compromise their relationship with alcohol.
Individuals with alcohol problems go to great lengths to avoid change. As a result, they lie about their drinking or blame others for their problems. However, these behaviors can fracture their relationships, threaten their employment and exacerbate their addiction.
In many cases, the blaming and lying will not stop until the alcoholic admits to having a drinking problem. To help these individuals consider rehab, many families hold interventions. These meetings allow family members to persuade a loved one to seek help for addiction.
Shedding the stigma associated with addiction may reduce the reluctance to seek treatment. Without guilt and fear, alcoholics may not feel the need to lie or blame others for their problems. Instead, they might be more open about their drinking problems and more motivated to seek resources for alcoholics.
Completing alcohol rehab is a proven method for overcoming alcoholism. In rehab, people undergo alcohol detox, learn about the dangers of alcoholism and find new ways to avoid drinking. They also learn how to live healthy lives without alcohol.
Coping with Anothers Alcoholism:
The effects of alcoholism on families include stress, anxiety and depression. For help coping with negative emotions related to your loved ones drinking problems, consider attending Al-Anon or another 12-step program for friends and family members of alcoholics. These support groups allow you to interact with people in similar situations. You can also learn strategies to alleviate stress and manage strains on your mental health.
If I may, I would like to add one thing (taken from my experience):
Addiction rehab teaches those affected how to live their life honestly. They learn tools on how to stop engaging in these negative behaviors mentioned above.
Yes, I have never seen that list either, thank you IAM.
when I worked the steps in proper order... one through twelve... that **gradual** process asked me to understand the disease. In the BEGINNING though, it was helpful when they asked me to just keep focus on me and my feelings about being "affected" ... noticing all the tension and discomfort in my body, etc. I could not heal until I gave myself full permission to start feeling the feelings ( coming out of denial) instead of my usual old minimizing tactics or sweeping my feelings under the rug... my own deception.... I had suffered this way my entire life. Now they were asking me to shine a flashlight on ME (mind, body and spirit) being affected.
I have come to believe that close intimate relationships work and work BEST when they are mutually understanding, mutually respectful, mutually tactful, mutually reliable, mutually loyal, etc. But also recognize there are no cookie-cutter journeys in life.
Through my friendship with many AA members, I've been able to understand my former AH and what motivated his attitudes and behaviors... and then identifying with those behaviors myself. This understanding has led to softening and forgiveness and compassion for us BOTH....... for lying and deceiving me.
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 1st of August 2019 10:39:52 AM
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 1st of August 2019 11:44:30 AM