I'd like to begin by saying that my sponsor for the last 3 years has been great in so many ways but I feel like we've stagnated. It is very important to her that with all her sponsees that the first 3 steps be firmly established before moving on to the 4th and beyond. She eplained that her own experience with step 4 was crushing and she doesn't want her sponsees to go thru the same. I told her not too long ago that I felt my relationship with my higher power was good and I was ready to move on to Step 4. As a side note in our meeting there are a number of others she has sponsored for years and they have not gotten beyond step 3. My sponsor is very set about the process and I'm wondering if this is appropriate. I've been in the program for many years and have never experienced anything like this. I understand she has a right to sponsor as she sees fit but I'm getting red flags.
Thank you
Iamhere said
Jul 4, 2019
Welcome to MIP Whitsey! Glad you found us and glad that you posted. The way I view recovery is it's my journey, and a sponsor is to lead me. If you are ready to move forward, and she's not able/willing, by all means you might want to make some changes. I am a firm believer in doing what is necessary for my recovery and if that means changing sponsors, meetings, readers, etc. then so be it.
I also believe that gut feelings or red flags are not accidental. I love the concept of the three A(s) - Awareness, Acceptance, Action. I view those gut feelings or red flags as the start of Awareness. Just my thoughts - take what you like and leave the rest!
Whitsey said
Jul 4, 2019
Thanks for responding and validating.
hotrod said
Jul 5, 2019
Hello Whitney I agree this doee appear like a long drwn out way to work the program . You can talk this over with her reason it out and if she still w ill not move forward I would look for another sponsor. Glad you found MIP
tiredtonite said
Jul 5, 2019
Hi Whitney,
Your comfort is important. It sounds like your sponsor is projecting their experience in recovery onto sponsees. This invalidates feelings and the sponee's right to make choices concerning their own recovery. Alanon literature tells us that sponsor/sponsee relationship is a mutual exchange in which one's own choice of a higher power (and yours and your sponsor's many differ) is at the center of the relationship and guiding that relationship. This is a gentle program. As such, it is suggested that we work it at our own pace. With that said, some in the program will digress to their sponsor and ask, do you think I'm ready to move to the next step? Because it's about the sponsee's recovery and not sponsor, a better option than the sponsor deciding readiness would be to ask the sponsee how do you feel? Do you feel ready? Having someone as a sponsor who neither rushes someone through the stepwork nor keeps them from progressing is important. Someone who can validates my desire and choice as a sponsee to move forward is very important. For me, my ability to move forward or stay where I am longer is no reflection on their ability as a sponsor because my higher power is guiding my life not the sponsor.
If you feel that you see red flags then you do. Being able to trust a sponsor is very important and vice versa. As a relationship of equals in the program, it's an intimate relationship where each should feel safe to be vulnerable with the other, share confidences and grow together. Once the sponsor sees themself as an authority, teacher, leader etc. ego is the higher power sitting in the middle of the relationship between themself and their sponsee(s). In my opinion, it becomes a contest of wills, a contest of who has grown more and who gets to decide what we do next in step work, recovery, service etc. We talk about never putting sponsors on a pedestal. They're imperfect program people just as we are with their own stuff to work through. With that said, someone who is a good fit for us when new, will sometimes not be as we grow. The objective is for all of us to keep growing and if that means separating to do so, it just means you need something different now. This in no way invalidates the positives that took place between the sponsor and sponsee. Growth for me means letting one another go in love and gratitude for having had the experience.
Like you, I have had this experience with a sponsor and chose to find another. I felt a sick dynamic of dependency repeating from my past living with an alcoholic/addict. My growth was in that I took responsibility to make a change so I could face myself honestly and continue to grow in Alanon. I want my life to be a reflection of my higher power's will not the will of another person.
As far as not moving to step 4 based on your sponsor's own experience, caretaking another based on one's own past experience is controlling and a form of rescuing another. It can be mistaken for being loving. To me, being loving is to acknowledge the wants and needs of another and their right to choose. Everyone has a right to choose what is best for them. If I find myself projecting my fears onto another, I might want to explore that and work on it and resolve it so it isn't affecting my present day experiences and relationships.
If your sponsor is insistant that you move forward in your step work when she says you are ready, it implies that her will is greater than your hp's will for you. We are in these programs to grow and become healthier in our choices and interactions. In my humble opinion, if you feel ready to move onto the next Alanon step it's something for a sponsor/sponsee to celebrate not delay. Please take what you like and leave the rest. ((hugs)) TT
-- Edited by tiredtonite on Friday 5th of July 2019 12:02:41 PM
Bo said
Jul 5, 2019
No one else can or should speak to your red flags. They are yours, no one else's. The same applies to your recovery. It is YOURS. However, a sponsor serves a very important, very valuable part of recovery. If she feels you are not ready -- as opposed to just being adamant, close-minded, and it has to be her way -- she may have some valid points. Ask her. Discuss it. She should be more than willing to do so. In my experience, "moving on" is not about having one thing down and done. Recovery is a constant learning process. It is evolutionary.
In my experience, moving on...especially to step four...is more about mastery of the first three steps, which are the foundation of the alanon program. It is not as much about a relationship with a higher power, as much as it is about step two (and as I said, one and three as well). How quickly others have gotten beyond step 3 is irrelevant. My sponsor got to step four with two others -- friends of mine -- in 6 months and 18 months, and neither was a benchmark for me. Both were meaningless to me. If she is just being hard-headed and it has to be her way, that's another story.
Regardless, if these are truly red flags for you...so be it. That's a message to you. It should be a clear message. Personally, I'd rather be late to the next step than be early, LOL.
Bottom line -- it is up to you. Period.
All the best.
-- Edited by Bo on Friday 5th of July 2019 02:38:24 PM
Whitsey said
Jul 5, 2019
Thanks to all of you for the thoughtful comments. Do we ever master the first 3 steps? It seems that many long term members that have worked through all 12 steps have to revisit the first 3 from time to time. I want to be honest with myself hoping that I'm not being rebellious in this matter. I think that at this point in my life I am able to reason things out with the guidance of my sponsor and my higher power so that I can make decisions for myself. I was hoping step four would help me with all this. Thank again!
Bo said
Jul 5, 2019
Great question...when I use the term master, I use it in the context of "living" the first three steps and those steps becoming almost innate. I have been in alanon -- face to face meetings -- for 25 years. I revisit, re-iterate, re-examine, the first three steps constantly. That to me is part of mastering it. I immersed myself in those first three steps and spent 12 months of step one alone. It wasn't about acceptance and being powerless over alcohol, the alcoholic, and alcoholism...it was about acceptance...period.
The decision is up to you...I followed the general rule, again, that I'd rather be "late" to the next step, than "early"...and every single time it worked to my benefit. That was just me, my experience, my recovery. To each their own...all the best working the steps!
Iamhere said
Jul 5, 2019
(((Whitsey))) - I work really, really hard to keep things simple - my life, my recovery, my journey. I spent many years overthinking, over-analyzing, projecting, etc. and it was beyond complicated and tiring. So - from my experience, nope....we are not ever going to master the program, the steps, the perfect serenity, recipe for living, etc. We are all about progress and not perfection.
It was impressed upon me early on and we discuss it often that time in recovery does not equate to healthier living. Since it's suggested to us that we live One Day at a Time, the folks who came before me always joked that whomever woke earliest has the longest recovery, just for today. Everyone is equal in any 12 step fellowship, there are no awards, certificates, metals, etc. I prefer to surround myself with those who walk the walk and talk the talk. Most of my closest friends in recovery pray/meditate on those first 3 steps each morning, and visit ten through twelve each evening. Many of us journal on a step each month, each year and each time, for me, more is revealed.
The idea of 'mastering' recovery or any part of it suggests to me a level of ego, control, and/or management that I've worked hard to leave behind. The best gift recovery has given me has been the freedom to be my authentic, imperfect self, who will make mistakes but will also continue to grow and learn. I also keep an open mind as more is continuously revealed about love, life, living and recovery from the God of my understanding. (((Hugs)))
tiredtonite said
Jul 6, 2019
Do you ever master the first three Alanon steps is definitely a thought provoking question. For me, it would mean I'd achieved spiritually perfection to have my will in perfect unison with my higher power's will for me. I have no such aspiration because it puts unwarranted pressure on me as an imperfect human being. I will always be a work in progress. It's what hp likes best about me. I know because I feel the love. Thanks for the question and for sharing the journey. Odaat TT
Whitsey said
Jul 6, 2019
Thank you thank you!! How precious you are for sharing. Don't know what took me so long to register here. Your all wonderful!
I also believe that gut feelings or red flags are not accidental. I love the concept of the three A(s) - Awareness, Acceptance, Action. I view those gut feelings or red flags as the start of Awareness. Just my thoughts - take what you like and leave the rest!
Hi Whitney,
Your comfort is important. It sounds like your sponsor is projecting their experience in recovery onto sponsees. This invalidates feelings and the sponee's right to make choices concerning their own recovery. Alanon literature tells us that sponsor/sponsee relationship is a mutual exchange in which one's own choice of a higher power (and yours and your sponsor's many differ) is at the center of the relationship and guiding that relationship. This is a gentle program. As such, it is suggested that we work it at our own pace. With that said, some in the program will digress to their sponsor and ask, do you think I'm ready to move to the next step? Because it's about the sponsee's recovery and not sponsor, a better option than the sponsor deciding readiness would be to ask the sponsee how do you feel? Do you feel ready? Having someone as a sponsor who neither rushes someone through the stepwork nor keeps them from progressing is important. Someone who can validates my desire and choice as a sponsee to move forward is very important. For me, my ability to move forward or stay where I am longer is no reflection on their ability as a sponsor because my higher power is guiding my life not the sponsor.
If you feel that you see red flags then you do. Being able to trust a sponsor is very important and vice versa. As a relationship of equals in the program, it's an intimate relationship where each should feel safe to be vulnerable with the other, share confidences and grow together. Once the sponsor sees themself as an authority, teacher, leader etc. ego is the higher power sitting in the middle of the relationship between themself and their sponsee(s). In my opinion, it becomes a contest of wills, a contest of who has grown more and who gets to decide what we do next in step work, recovery, service etc. We talk about never putting sponsors on a pedestal. They're imperfect program people just as we are with their own stuff to work through. With that said, someone who is a good fit for us when new, will sometimes not be as we grow. The objective is for all of us to keep growing and if that means separating to do so, it just means you need something different now. This in no way invalidates the positives that took place between the sponsor and sponsee. Growth for me means letting one another go in love and gratitude for having had the experience.
Like you, I have had this experience with a sponsor and chose to find another. I felt a sick dynamic of dependency repeating from my past living with an alcoholic/addict. My growth was in that I took responsibility to make a change so I could face myself honestly and continue to grow in Alanon. I want my life to be a reflection of my higher power's will not the will of another person.
As far as not moving to step 4 based on your sponsor's own experience, caretaking another based on one's own past experience is controlling and a form of rescuing another. It can be mistaken for being loving. To me, being loving is to acknowledge the wants and needs of another and their right to choose. Everyone has a right to choose what is best for them. If I find myself projecting my fears onto another, I might want to explore that and work on it and resolve it so it isn't affecting my present day experiences and relationships.
If your sponsor is insistant that you move forward in your step work when she says you are ready, it implies that her will is greater than your hp's will for you. We are in these programs to grow and become healthier in our choices and interactions. In my humble opinion, if you feel ready to move onto the next Alanon step it's something for a sponsor/sponsee to celebrate not delay. Please take what you like and leave the rest. ((hugs)) TT
-- Edited by tiredtonite on Friday 5th of July 2019 12:02:41 PM
No one else can or should speak to your red flags. They are yours, no one else's. The same applies to your recovery. It is YOURS. However, a sponsor serves a very important, very valuable part of recovery. If she feels you are not ready -- as opposed to just being adamant, close-minded, and it has to be her way -- she may have some valid points. Ask her. Discuss it. She should be more than willing to do so. In my experience, "moving on" is not about having one thing down and done. Recovery is a constant learning process. It is evolutionary.
In my experience, moving on...especially to step four...is more about mastery of the first three steps, which are the foundation of the alanon program. It is not as much about a relationship with a higher power, as much as it is about step two (and as I said, one and three as well). How quickly others have gotten beyond step 3 is irrelevant. My sponsor got to step four with two others -- friends of mine -- in 6 months and 18 months, and neither was a benchmark for me. Both were meaningless to me. If she is just being hard-headed and it has to be her way, that's another story.
Regardless, if these are truly red flags for you...so be it. That's a message to you. It should be a clear message. Personally, I'd rather be late to the next step than be early, LOL.
Bottom line -- it is up to you. Period.
All the best.
-- Edited by Bo on Friday 5th of July 2019 02:38:24 PM
The decision is up to you...I followed the general rule, again, that I'd rather be "late" to the next step, than "early"...and every single time it worked to my benefit. That was just me, my experience, my recovery. To each their own...all the best working the steps!
It was impressed upon me early on and we discuss it often that time in recovery does not equate to healthier living. Since it's suggested to us that we live One Day at a Time, the folks who came before me always joked that whomever woke earliest has the longest recovery, just for today. Everyone is equal in any 12 step fellowship, there are no awards, certificates, metals, etc. I prefer to surround myself with those who walk the walk and talk the talk. Most of my closest friends in recovery pray/meditate on those first 3 steps each morning, and visit ten through twelve each evening. Many of us journal on a step each month, each year and each time, for me, more is revealed.
The idea of 'mastering' recovery or any part of it suggests to me a level of ego, control, and/or management that I've worked hard to leave behind. The best gift recovery has given me has been the freedom to be my authentic, imperfect self, who will make mistakes but will also continue to grow and learn. I also keep an open mind as more is continuously revealed about love, life, living and recovery from the God of my understanding. (((Hugs)))