So I think I am asking for some ESH. A little back-story, as I don't post on here too much about my Ex. 1. Because he is my Ex, and 2. Because I try to focus on me now.
Divorce was finalized last Aug. Ex spent a year in rehab and about 6 months in SL. I believe he got a place this past Feb (can't remember exact date). All this time, I have been very cordial (maybe even friendly) with him. Occasionally I have joined he and my son for a meal out. When he texts, which is A LOT (for an Ex) I usually will reply back. Why? Because I have decided that I don't want to live in BitterTown. Not because I have really moved past the hurt or the shock of my 29-year marriage ending. But he is working a strong program, and for the most part, very good about boundaries. In some way, I believe the way I am behaving is a good example for my young adult. My parents can't understand it, & can be disapproving - but that's a story for another day.
This past Saturday, he texted some old photos of him and us when we were young... that didn't bother me, even though he wasn't aware it was a group text with our son.
Then the following came:
"I know you hate ______ the Alcoholic. I do to. But I've loved you my entire life and have never thought about anybody else. I don't expect anything from you. I just want you to think about a life with someone who loves you and has always loved you without an addiction or mental illness that would jeopardize any know no of relationship."
Then,
"Sorry without any knew relationship. I just want to be your friend. PS: You are so damn pretty."
On Sunday, he texted just me, "Sorry about all the texts yesterday. From now on when I go through old pictures and stuff I promise to hide my phone. LOL!"
At first I was angry that he did this on the group text. Then I looked at the spelling/grammar errors and wondered if he had relapsed. Then I was angry at him for having such strong feelings NOW. It bothered me so much, that I just shrunk from the situation and ignored. Then I thought, I am not ignoring, I am "Practicing the Pause." I don't really know how, or if I should respond to this... so pausing to think about it is the best option. One of the first things I thought of was, "Relapse or not, it is none of my business!" How I respond to how these texts make me feel... that is what matters.
I am still pausing. But there is a part of me that wants him to know that I understand he is having some strong feelings, but I felt those texts crossed a boundary, and I am not comfortable now. Instead, I either haven't texted him back about other things, or just short one word answers. I am vacillating between pretending the texts never happened (thus thinking this might encourage him) and speaking my mind. The reason I am not too comfortable with just pretending the texts never happened, is b/c that was my MO before. I let so many things "slide" b/c I just swept them under my imaginary rug. I don't like that old behavior.
I have thought about what I would say, but I am not sure it would come out in a nice way, or I might get too emotional and start crying.
Well, I guess I was just tired of it taking up rent in my head. All thoughts would be appreciated.
Peace
DavidG said
Jul 3, 2019
P&P... your ex.deserves support in the recovery dept... and, in a sense the chance to make some amends.
ok... so he is hitting the spend-bumps in the boundary dept. ... but you are managing that very well. ...
IamLynn said
Jul 3, 2019
Wow 29 years of marriage! I'm sorry that it ended but glad that you got out of a toxic relationship and are at the point where you treat your ex AH with dignity for your sake and your sons. I'm glad to hear that your ex is getting help and hope he recovers. That you have accomplished this much in such a short time is really amazing and I think your deserve a pause if not a vacation from having to think about his needs or what place you will play in his life. In my life I have found that a year is sometimes needed to one, mourn over a loss, two, get used to a new place or life, and three, look around and get comfortable in a new way of life. Wasn't it common in days past to mourn a loved one's passing for a year? I know no one passed but a marriage ended so fully deserves mourning for a time and time again.
Anyway when I read your short story it seems you are progressing at a good pace, deserve to pause as long as you need, and the next steps will come when your ready to receive them. That is my opinion as someone who very rarely knows what to do let alone how to progress in an emotional and physical upheaval. I'm usually good in a crisis and then completely fail at a long term solution which is why I'm here. I wish you the best.
Aloha said
Jul 3, 2019
Thanks so much for your share, PnP.
I love how you're working through it all. The pause is a big deal for me. Especially if I'm feeling ramped up and emotional about something.
My sponsor would ask me the following questions when I would be presented with similar events:
#1 - Who do you want to be in this situation?
#2 - How would you treat a friend in this situation?
#3 - Did you pray on it?
And your thoughts bring to mind the phrase "Say what you mean and mean what you say, but don't say it mean."
Praying for both of you.
PosiesandPuppies said
Jul 3, 2019
Thank you all for your thoughts.
David - I agree... just b/c he is my "Ex" doesn't mean I have to hate on him. I do try and support while staying within my hoop. Usually I am pretty good at it, but when he gets too personal, then I just become too sad that my life is the way it is. I guess I am still in that "Inbetween" phase... knowing I did and continue to do what is right for my mental & emotional health, but not truly accepting this is the way it is. I am still too emotional to get too close to my Ex... but he is wanting the close "friendship" thing of being in my life, but I must still be angry... so that is keeping me from accepting what he is offering... just as he is... no strings or expectations. I guess I am just not sure if I NEED to convey this idea to him or not. I guess more will be revealed, huh? LOL!
Lynn - Thank you for your kind words. I am learning that "Recovery" is an "always" process, and everyone has their own version. You are right, it really has taken me the year to mourn the loss of what I thought was my life-partner. I am in a much better head space now than in the fall, so I am progressing. I think I just haven't processed how my life could be with him in it... I spent a good portion of the last year and a half figuring out how to get him out... so this "new normal" is odd and strange to me!
Aloha - My sponsor told me something very similar...
1. How would I like to be treated?
2. The answer will come in time.
These are both good and true, but I guess I wasn't too thrilled with her answer! LOL!
SerenityRUS said
Jul 3, 2019
Hugs PnP,
I love what you are doing with this, I also think that when things like this happen that the knee jerk reaction is I have to have an answer NOW. The reality is you really don't. You don't need to respond to everything. In my mind I hear a hook, where are you at, what do you want and so on and you know it's really not his business and you don't have to say anything to that nature. I think a no response is appropriate. Regardless if you are pausing or not .. sometimes no response is the right response.
Now should that boundary continue to be crossed I think it would be appropriate to say I'm really not comfortable having this conversation in your PNP way. I tend to be way more direct .. LOL.
It's up to you, you are in the drivers seat and he's certainly free to vocalize his opinion however you don't have reciprocate or respond.
Hugs S :)
Iamhere said
Jul 3, 2019
(((PnP))) - huge hugs....I have ESH from both sides of this coin and what I know is how you feel, think, wonder today will be different tomorrow or another day - that slogan of this too shall pass rings true for all events that feel a certain way in the moment.
As an A, it took a good couple of years to begin (begin - repeated) to understand how my actions, choices, attitudes and disease really affected others. I had done the steps and made amends as best I could yet living for a long time in a haze of mind-altering substances had many things way below the surface. Those I hurt lived it when it was happening and I had a delayed reality check as the fog lifted and more was revealed. This process continues today 30+ years later. I still have a brother who won't give me the time of day for any reason at any time unless he needs something. He's still grieving, hurting and angry and I am powerless over that. What I know is trying to live my life sober and of service each day is the only way I know to make a living amends to those who still don't trust me.
As an Al-Anoner, I too would be in contact with my sponsor. She's the one that showed me that my train of thought often went to the worse case scenario and that I needed to practice unconditional love and acceptance for ALL. She suggested if I could not find a way to treat everyone with dignity and respect, I would struggle with authenticity, which is the greatest gift we get from Al-Anon.
So - I need to be really aware of my thinking process. I would love to say that when unexpected events happen, I immediately turn to the God of my understanding and ask for guidance and direction. Usually, I begin to fill with fear or anger, maybe allow a bit of insane thinking to happen and then PAUSE to calm myself and reach out to my HP. This interval has gotten shorter and shorter and shorter as I've practiced this program as best I know.
I totally agree that saying what you mean, meaning what you say and not saying it mean is so appropriate for your recovery! I think we believe we must find the 'best' response and sometimes, that is as simple as I am not sure how I feel about you .................................. or even pointed words such as, I am still processing the end of our marriage and it makes me sad when ....................................................
What's important for my recovery is that I trust in the process, program and HP to lead me daily. I thought I had to have all the answers all the time for a long, long portion of my life and there's great freedom in just owning that I don't really know how I feel about something or being able to say that it makes me uncomfortable. I can respectfully state what's up for me without hurting another, throwing blame or shame today and that's such a great feeling. You are grieving and I suspect he is too - both very natural and probably very different.
Spending a year focused on the concept 'Seek to Understand' helped me realize that every person I encounter has pain and baggage just like I do. I can add to that or I can try to be a bright light. I opt for the latter as I don't like the way my gut feels when I think I am better or less than another. I have been told for years to pray daily, at least twice, for those I feel wronged me, or where I have anger/resentments/dislike for and it does work. For each scenario/person, I've come to a place of peace, and that includes some really, really bad life moments (rape, abuse, etc.) I do know that each and every life event and relationship that has brought me discomfort, pain or uncertainty has become clearer as I've just leaned into my recovery, my program and my side of the street - without fail.
Keep doing you girl - you're rocking a great program and perhaps there is a lesson or 2 here. What I know deep down is that you do got this!!
El said
Jul 3, 2019
PnP.
While I do not have any ESH of my own on the topic, I want to applaud your pause and coming here to share. I think you show a lot of growth in the program and I admire your thought process on this journey. A long marriage is nothing to sneeze at and be done with. It was a long and large part of your life and identity. My suggestion is to take as long as you need to work through any thoughts, feelings and doubts about what to do. There is no need to JADE any of your process to your ex, either. I am so glad to know you through this board!
Ellen
hotrod said
Jul 3, 2019
Pnp I have come to really appreciate the "pause" Prior to program I would react immediately to every situation . this caused me undue stress and problems Enter program and seeing this defect , I learned to not react but recite a slogan in my mind before responding in any situation.
I am ever grateful for this awareness..
PosiesandPuppies said
Jul 4, 2019
Oh Serenity, you are so RIGHT!! LOL! I now think there is no real "crisis," it was really about me wanting to have an answer about this NOW!!! In processing all the great responses here, I think that deep down, I am uncomfortable with the "Grey" that is my life right now... I want things to be more black and white... while at the same time trying to not be a bitter person about this whole thing. I am not accepting that to not be angry and bitter, you have to live with all shades of grey!! Thanks for the epiphany!!
Thank you, Iamhere. Your words were both comforting and validating. I KNOW that my wasband's brain is still mending, and for him, it's like he has woke up and the new norm is crazily different than what he remembers. For me, I had years of disappointment, sadness, anger, and eventually some form of acceptance - albeit a life I didn't want to accept. I am trying to treat him with respect and dignity, while honoring myself.
E - thank you for your kind words. You are so right... I don't have to JADE. Or more importantly, even feel like I want to JADE!
Betty - I agree, this "pausing" thing is invaluable in my life... I am using it in many scenarios, not just with my wasband!
If anyone is interested, by using The Pause, speaking to my sponsor and voicing my "troubles" here, I have decided I do not need to engage with what he texted. If it comes up again, I will respond with, "I know you want to manage how I think of you, and are seeking more from me emotionally... but I am still healing. It has been a slow process for me. Thank you for understanding and respecting this."
It states where I am at and how I feel in an honest way (without being mean, I think). I think it would effectively shut down those inappropriate texts as well.
I appreciate the opportunity to come here and get some additional ESH from people who are in, or have been in the trenches. I value my sponsor... but sometimes how she directs her answers just doesn't jive with me at the time that I receive them... she is very rarely wrong, though! LOL!!
So I think I am asking for some ESH. A little back-story, as I don't post on here too much about my Ex. 1. Because he is my Ex, and 2. Because I try to focus on me now.
Divorce was finalized last Aug. Ex spent a year in rehab and about 6 months in SL. I believe he got a place this past Feb (can't remember exact date). All this time, I have been very cordial (maybe even friendly) with him. Occasionally I have joined he and my son for a meal out. When he texts, which is A LOT (for an Ex) I usually will reply back. Why? Because I have decided that I don't want to live in BitterTown. Not because I have really moved past the hurt or the shock of my 29-year marriage ending. But he is working a strong program, and for the most part, very good about boundaries. In some way, I believe the way I am behaving is a good example for my young adult. My parents can't understand it, & can be disapproving - but that's a story for another day.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OK, so here is the rub...
This past Saturday, he texted some old photos of him and us when we were young... that didn't bother me, even though he wasn't aware it was a group text with our son.
Then the following came:
"I know you hate ______ the Alcoholic. I do to. But I've loved you my entire life and have never thought about anybody else. I don't expect anything from you. I just want you to think about a life with someone who loves you and has always loved you without an addiction or mental illness that would jeopardize any know no of relationship."
Then,
"Sorry without any knew relationship. I just want to be your friend. PS: You are so damn pretty."
On Sunday, he texted just me, "Sorry about all the texts yesterday. From now on when I go through old pictures and stuff I promise to hide my phone. LOL!"
At first I was angry that he did this on the group text. Then I looked at the spelling/grammar errors and wondered if he had relapsed. Then I was angry at him for having such strong feelings NOW. It bothered me so much, that I just shrunk from the situation and ignored. Then I thought, I am not ignoring, I am "Practicing the Pause." I don't really know how, or if I should respond to this... so pausing to think about it is the best option. One of the first things I thought of was, "Relapse or not, it is none of my business!" How I respond to how these texts make me feel... that is what matters.
I am still pausing. But there is a part of me that wants him to know that I understand he is having some strong feelings, but I felt those texts crossed a boundary, and I am not comfortable now. Instead, I either haven't texted him back about other things, or just short one word answers. I am vacillating between pretending the texts never happened (thus thinking this might encourage him) and speaking my mind. The reason I am not too comfortable with just pretending the texts never happened, is b/c that was my MO before. I let so many things "slide" b/c I just swept them under my imaginary rug. I don't like that old behavior.
I have thought about what I would say, but I am not sure it would come out in a nice way, or I might get too emotional and start crying.
Well, I guess I was just tired of it taking up rent in my head. All thoughts would be appreciated.
Peace
P&P... your ex.deserves support in the recovery dept... and, in a sense the chance to make some amends.
ok... so he is hitting the spend-bumps in the boundary dept. ... but you are managing that very well.
...
Anyway when I read your short story it seems you are progressing at a good pace, deserve to pause as long as you need, and the next steps will come when your ready to receive them. That is my opinion as someone who very rarely knows what to do let alone how to progress in an emotional and physical upheaval. I'm usually good in a crisis and then completely fail at a long term solution which is why I'm here. I wish you the best.
I love how you're working through it all. The pause is a big deal for me. Especially if I'm feeling ramped up and emotional about something.
My sponsor would ask me the following questions when I would be presented with similar events:
#1 - Who do you want to be in this situation?
#2 - How would you treat a friend in this situation?
#3 - Did you pray on it?
And your thoughts bring to mind the phrase "Say what you mean and mean what you say, but don't say it mean."
Praying for both of you.
David - I agree... just b/c he is my "Ex" doesn't mean I have to hate on him. I do try and support while staying within my hoop. Usually I am pretty good at it, but when he gets too personal, then I just become too sad that my life is the way it is. I guess I am still in that "Inbetween" phase... knowing I did and continue to do what is right for my mental & emotional health, but not truly accepting this is the way it is. I am still too emotional to get too close to my Ex... but he is wanting the close "friendship" thing of being in my life, but I must still be angry... so that is keeping me from accepting what he is offering... just as he is... no strings or expectations. I guess I am just not sure if I NEED to convey this idea to him or not. I guess more will be revealed, huh? LOL!
Lynn - Thank you for your kind words. I am learning that "Recovery" is an "always" process, and everyone has their own version. You are right, it really has taken me the year to mourn the loss of what I thought was my life-partner. I am in a much better head space now than in the fall, so I am progressing. I think I just haven't processed how my life could be with him in it... I spent a good portion of the last year and a half figuring out how to get him out... so this "new normal" is odd and strange to me!
Aloha - My sponsor told me something very similar...
1. How would I like to be treated?
2. The answer will come in time.
These are both good and true, but I guess I wasn't too thrilled with her answer! LOL!
I love what you are doing with this, I also think that when things like this happen that the knee jerk reaction is I have to have an answer NOW. The reality is you really don't. You don't need to respond to everything. In my mind I hear a hook, where are you at, what do you want and so on and you know it's really not his business and you don't have to say anything to that nature. I think a no response is appropriate. Regardless if you are pausing or not .. sometimes no response is the right response.
Now should that boundary continue to be crossed I think it would be appropriate to say I'm really not comfortable having this conversation in your PNP way. I tend to be way more direct .. LOL.
It's up to you, you are in the drivers seat and he's certainly free to vocalize his opinion however you don't have reciprocate or respond.
Hugs S :)
As an A, it took a good couple of years to begin (begin - repeated) to understand how my actions, choices, attitudes and disease really affected others. I had done the steps and made amends as best I could yet living for a long time in a haze of mind-altering substances had many things way below the surface. Those I hurt lived it when it was happening and I had a delayed reality check as the fog lifted and more was revealed. This process continues today 30+ years later. I still have a brother who won't give me the time of day for any reason at any time unless he needs something. He's still grieving, hurting and angry and I am powerless over that. What I know is trying to live my life sober and of service each day is the only way I know to make a living amends to those who still don't trust me.
As an Al-Anoner, I too would be in contact with my sponsor. She's the one that showed me that my train of thought often went to the worse case scenario and that I needed to practice unconditional love and acceptance for ALL. She suggested if I could not find a way to treat everyone with dignity and respect, I would struggle with authenticity, which is the greatest gift we get from Al-Anon.
So - I need to be really aware of my thinking process. I would love to say that when unexpected events happen, I immediately turn to the God of my understanding and ask for guidance and direction. Usually, I begin to fill with fear or anger, maybe allow a bit of insane thinking to happen and then PAUSE to calm myself and reach out to my HP. This interval has gotten shorter and shorter and shorter as I've practiced this program as best I know.
I totally agree that saying what you mean, meaning what you say and not saying it mean is so appropriate for your recovery! I think we believe we must find the 'best' response and sometimes, that is as simple as I am not sure how I feel about you .................................. or even pointed words such as, I am still processing the end of our marriage and it makes me sad when ....................................................
What's important for my recovery is that I trust in the process, program and HP to lead me daily. I thought I had to have all the answers all the time for a long, long portion of my life and there's great freedom in just owning that I don't really know how I feel about something or being able to say that it makes me uncomfortable. I can respectfully state what's up for me without hurting another, throwing blame or shame today and that's such a great feeling. You are grieving and I suspect he is too - both very natural and probably very different.
Spending a year focused on the concept 'Seek to Understand' helped me realize that every person I encounter has pain and baggage just like I do. I can add to that or I can try to be a bright light. I opt for the latter as I don't like the way my gut feels when I think I am better or less than another. I have been told for years to pray daily, at least twice, for those I feel wronged me, or where I have anger/resentments/dislike for and it does work. For each scenario/person, I've come to a place of peace, and that includes some really, really bad life moments (rape, abuse, etc.) I do know that each and every life event and relationship that has brought me discomfort, pain or uncertainty has become clearer as I've just leaned into my recovery, my program and my side of the street - without fail.
Keep doing you girl - you're rocking a great program and perhaps there is a lesson or 2 here. What I know deep down is that you do got this!!
PnP.
While I do not have any ESH of my own on the topic, I want to applaud your pause and coming here to share. I think you show a lot of growth in the program and I admire your thought process on this journey. A long marriage is nothing to sneeze at and be done with. It was a long and large part of your life and identity. My suggestion is to take as long as you need to work through any thoughts, feelings and doubts about what to do. There is no need to JADE any of your process to your ex, either. I am so glad to know you through this board!
Ellen
Pnp I have come to really appreciate the "pause" Prior to program I would react immediately to every situation . this caused me undue stress and problems Enter program and seeing this defect , I learned to not react but recite a slogan in my mind before responding in any situation.
I am ever grateful for this awareness..
Oh Serenity, you are so RIGHT!! LOL! I now think there is no real "crisis," it was really about me wanting to have an answer about this NOW!!! In processing all the great responses here, I think that deep down, I am uncomfortable with the "Grey" that is my life right now... I want things to be more black and white... while at the same time trying to not be a bitter person about this whole thing. I am not accepting that to not be angry and bitter, you have to live with all shades of grey!! Thanks for the epiphany!!
Thank you, Iamhere. Your words were both comforting and validating. I KNOW that my wasband's brain is still mending, and for him, it's like he has woke up and the new norm is crazily different than what he remembers. For me, I had years of disappointment, sadness, anger, and eventually some form of acceptance - albeit a life I didn't want to accept. I am trying to treat him with respect and dignity, while honoring myself.
E - thank you for your kind words. You are so right... I don't have to JADE. Or more importantly, even feel like I want to JADE!
Betty - I agree, this "pausing" thing is invaluable in my life... I am using it in many scenarios, not just with my wasband!
If anyone is interested, by using The Pause, speaking to my sponsor and voicing my "troubles" here, I have decided I do not need to engage with what he texted. If it comes up again, I will respond with, "I know you want to manage how I think of you, and are seeking more from me emotionally... but I am still healing. It has been a slow process for me. Thank you for understanding and respecting this."
It states where I am at and how I feel in an honest way (without being mean, I think). I think it would effectively shut down those inappropriate texts as well.
I appreciate the opportunity to come here and get some additional ESH from people who are in, or have been in the trenches. I value my sponsor... but sometimes how she directs her answers just doesn't jive with me at the time that I receive them... she is very rarely wrong, though! LOL!!