I have a question about how to handle someone (a friend who's an acquaintance to some degree but a central part of my friend group). She can be very selfish and seems to think that everyone's plans should revolve around her. She got angry at me in front of everyone because I chose to leave a pool party early and not go out to a bar with everyone else. She guilt tripped me and kept pushing my buttons. It was infuriating.
Since she is closer to other folks in our friends group, I don't know how to handle her directly. According to others in the group, she'll brush it under the rug and pretend like nothing happened. Her passive aggressive comments really push my buttons because my XAH was a pro at that and the way she got on my case in front of everyone else was infuriating. I wanted to go home and do laundry and prepare for a challenging work week. She did not WANT to understand and I found myself getting defensive. I actually wound up slamming a door when I left in a rideshare ride.
Anyhow, what would be your tactic on handling this? My bf was there and he has known this woman a few years but his tactic for handling her is to blow her off and ignore. I get my buttons pushed and tend to take things personally. I'm trying to figure out which program tools would work best here, lol?? Thoughts?
Mattie said
Jul 1, 2019
Arrrrgh, those people pop up everywhere, don't they? I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.
I notice that one of the things I've had the hardest time dealing with is the need to convince other people to see, or acknowledge, or accept my point of view. How many hours and days and weeks I've spent with imaginary conversations in my head in which I've tried to explain things to people until finally (in my head) they got it! Except even in my head they never get it. It's like if they refuse to agree with you, they've still got you on the hook. And so their incentive not to agree is really strong.
The sayings that have helped me have been:
Recovery isn't winning, it's not playing. (I must have repeated this to myself a thousand times! finally it began to sink in.)
Drop the rope.
You don't have to show up to every argument you're invited to.
I also remember the phenomenon of emotional contagion the person who has the strongest emotions "transmits" them to the other person and the other person "catches" those emotions like catching a cold. So if someone gets irrationally angry at me in the supermarket check-out line, and starts yelling that I have too many items or whatever, suddenly I'm angry too! I've caught the emotion. So people who are mean or angry or try to get at us have that emotion strongly, and then we tend to catch it and feel that way too. Or if they have trouble letting go of an incident, then we "catch" having trouble letting go too. So I try to say to myself, "This strong emotion I'm feeling isn't really all mine some of it is just their emotion leaking over to me." That helps me detach from the emotion and take it less seriously. Then my more mature reaction is to realize that if I have strong calmness, that calm will infect the situation and the other person will be calmer and the whole situation will be calmer and I can leave with a sense of calm. And my less mature reaction is to realize that if I refuse to "catch" the emotion and play the game, I win, and frustrate the other person!
In the moment, lots of times I just have to go through the emotions of what a wise and mature person would do, and wait for my emotions to catch up. Eventually they do dissipate and I feel better and can leave it all behind.
I'm sorry that it sounds as if you'll be in a position to see this person more in the future. I guess the less mature response (that is, mine!) would be to see that you'll have more chances to frustrate her and drive her crazy with your calm non-reactiveness.
SerenityRUS said
Jul 1, 2019
Lol .. I think your boyfriend has the right attitude men tend not to take that kind of social behavior personally. I also question the what about this behavior has you so triggered because usually I totally notice for myself at least I have unresolved issues to deal with that person's behaviour is actually about my behavior. You are an individual free to do what you want .. regardless of what other people think or do/ say. She will either get over it or not .. I just don't like to give people that kind of power in my life. It is about accepting others where they are at. Good luck!!
PosiesandPuppies said
Jul 1, 2019
((((Andromeda))))
Getting triggered in public is difficult. Especially in "early" recovery... we aren't comfortable with the tools to just reach out and utilize one! The ESH above were both very good. Perhaps some thought into WHY those actions triggered you. Then perhaps utilizing, "I do not have to play this game!"
I agree, it does sound like you will be around this person a bit... perhaps practice saying, "I don't know what is lacking in YOU that won't allow you to accept MY decision about this!"
But then that may open up something that is better left closed! LOL!
It may be better to just acknowledge that sentence in your head and then say, "My decision is final, period!" and then walk away.
I agree though... these types of people are highly frustrating!
Peace to ya this week!
Aloha said
Jul 1, 2019
What I love about Al-Anon is its tools reach far beyond just watching ourselves around alcoholics and addicts.
Whenever I encounter difficult people, number one - I see myself in them. I do that by recognizing how I used to be pre-program putting everyone outside of myself in charge of my happiness. The world revolved around me and everyone's behaviors and actions were direct response to me.
Fortunately, Al-Anon taught me different and that I had choices. That other people's behaviors had nothing to do with me whatsoever and that I didn't have to allow their behavior to alter my feelings. Or at least if something they said did alter my feelings, I was then in charge of working through those feelings in a positive manner.
I agree - your boyfriend has the right approach. Brush her off. Don't join her dance when she tries to bait you with guilt-tripping and snide remarks. Just like when an alcoholic tries to bait you.
I was also taught that I can speak up for myself if necessary. I can let a person know in no uncertain terms that I find their behavior unacceptable and unnecessary and that if it continues I'll be removing myself from the premises. The key to that is remembering that just because I said something it does NOT mean that person is obligated to change their behavior for me - many times they won't.
Finally if I know someone who is difficult and whose company is always "optional" in my life, I just choose not to be around them, period. In a social circle, however, that does not mean I tell all my friends "I'm not coming because so-and-so will be there." (that's then dragging innocents into my own personal relationship with the troublesome person.)
Last and not least - it always helps to pray for that person.
andromeda said
Jul 1, 2019
What Serenity said struck a chord because I know I was triggered. I still did what I needed to do for myself but I allowed her guilt trip to ruin the rest of my evening.
She is actually moving back to Montana for the next 4 months; she is a traveling nurse. So actually I wont have to be around her much for now. Everyone in the group has spoiled her and they all make a big deal about her coming to town or leaving town. She already had given my bf and I grief earlier in the day because we went camping on Saturday night and it was her last Sat night in town. My bfs response was I didnt put two and two together. And he walked away letting her stew there while standing in the kitchen. Normally I take his lead but this was the first time she ever laid into me personally. Ridiculous selfish and needy behavior! Some days im less equipped!
tiredtonite said
Jul 1, 2019
Hi Andromeda, I sometimes need to remind myself of our saying in Alanon - "I don't have to show up to every fight I'm invited to." Sometimes I react with J.A.D.E. Honestly, I feel like I just gave my power away later on when I feel more balanced emotionally and look at the situation realistically. Isn't interesting how people will fall all over someone when they are a visitor. I even see this at Alanon meetings when someone pops in who lives in a other state. Some members seem to find the visitors shares almost magical as if es&h related to being affected by the disease of alcoholism from one region to another is any different. I'm less inclined I suppose because those of us who include online recovery see ourselves no different than Alanoners on the other side of the world. Your choice to put yourselves first sounds healthy to me. She obviously has many people to be give her attention. And let's remember, it isn't as if you totally skipped hanging out with her while she's in town. You just don't see her as SHE who must be adored. Lol And could she possibly need to keep her reputation up as the one everyone just can't get enough of? Oh well if that's what it is. I think we have all had the experience of finding the courage to say NO and refuse an invitation if we've been in Alanon awhile. My go to response has been to say, "You know I think You'll be Ok." I don't say it sarcastically. I say it matter of factly. I then change the subject, excuse myself politely, direct positive conversation to someone nearby, whatever feels right. This my way of validating my right to choose what I want over what another wants.I say what I mean and mean what I say without saying it mean. Sometimes I may take the high road and even say that I hope its a great time and I look forward to hearing about it. For me, it's about being consistent in my responses vs reacting even if the reaction is internal and I am the only one who knows about the dis-ease I am feeling inwardly. I don't want to be experiencing that inner turmoil. I want to keep my serenity. I can say to myself in such moments - God help me. I can take a deep breath and release that crummy feeling. This to shall pass. And I have given myself permission to walk away no matter where the conversation is at with the other person. I don't have to participate in a contest of wills. It's not a sign of losing to protect myself from toxic personalities. "Would you excuse me moment" followed by not returning is acceptable to me." These occurrences are really gifts in disguise because we can then inventory and get to the root of not only why we are affected but what tools would work best for us in such situations based on how we are feeling from one day to another. That's for your share. I like how you choose to have balance when socializing with others. Sometimes too much togetherness can bring dissention especially when booze is involved or boredom sets in. (((hugs)) TT
-- Edited by tiredtonite on Monday 1st of July 2019 05:58:32 PM
Iamhere said
Jul 1, 2019
I have to remind myself in all situations that whatever I am feeling, doing, saying, responding to, etc. is about me. How another acts, speaks, talks, etc. is about them. I remind myself on a regular basis that other peoples words and actions is not about me! Every group will have at least one person that wants/needs to be the center of the universe. It's interesting that some enable this, others ignore this and then others are offended/bothered. There's no right/wrong way to respond to 'these types' yet our program does suggest that if we're bothered by another, something is wrong within us.
I am better able to accept others for who they are (and yes, some people are just plain a$$es) and not allow them to take away my joy and serenity. It is my choice to just say, "Excuse Me" and walk away if another person is being less that respectful. And, Al-Anon has given me the power to decide what is and what is not respectful. My boundaries are consistent and applicable to all I spend time with. When I am not consistent with my boundaries, I am setting myself up for disappointment and resentments.
We had a long talk tonight at tacos about taking our own inventory vs. that of others. I have been told that labeling others (passive aggressive guilt tripping) is a possible form of denial about my own defects that need attention. One of the gals kept saying another at work was pushing her buttons. Everyone else kept suggesting she was allowing the other to push them. She was not hearing what we were saying, simply because she didn't want to.
In moments like you faced, two things often pop into my mind - How important is this really? and Bless Them, Change Me. Over and over and over again! You got this - use your program and tools and you will find your peace with it!!!
andromeda said
Jul 1, 2019
IAH, you are right! Bless them, change me. She did apologize but it didn't seem genuine. I came right out and told her how what she said made me feel and I thanked her for her apology. Now, she keeps trying to bait me and I have ignored it.
Dang, sometimes it's harder than you think to stay on your own side of the street, ugh.
I just had dinner after a tough workout at the gym and now I'm going to take an epsom salts bath and relax. Shutting down the phone and just being mindful and present is all that matters.
Iamhere said
Jul 1, 2019
Good on you B - I love that you spoke your truth, accepted her apology and are moving forward! Enjoy that awesome bath - love your new life sweetie!!! It's always great when you stop by! (((Hugs)))
2HP said
Jul 2, 2019
One, two, three, slip... one, two, three, slip...
I'll never forget when I heard about the 12-step waltz. For a long time, I rested on the first three steps, they do provide that "good enough" feeling and sense of satisfaction. Well... along with heavy reliance on others to pull me up when I'm challenged again. I rested at step 3 for a few years into my recovery even though I had a sponsor. She was one who encouraged my reliance upon her (codependence) wanting me to make contact with her each and every day. Later, when I moved to another state, I was blessed to end up with a sponsor who "taught me how to fish and feed myself" if you will -- how to "use" the al-anon tool-kit laying at my feet -- the 12 steps.
Unfortunately the first 3 steps only take us so far. They provide relief. But do not root out the real cause for the problem within.
Al-anon's specific tool for resentments is step 4 inventory. (What I read in your post is that YOU became angry with her and her behaviors...?) The enemy is never all the assoholics "out there" nor is the solution in trying to overcome THEM. The enemy is inside, causing us to feel threatened and lose our balance.
Sure, we can "let it go" or brush it off, we're all successful at that after emotional hangover wears off. But there is a second part to LET GO... it's LETTING GOD or letting the remaining steps free us from old perceptions that keep us stuck and in bondage.
I am confident that your inventory work on this experience (as well as reviewing your old inventory of former AH) will help reveal what needs to be overcome in YOU. Higher Power is merely using these people to change and strengthen YOU, do you see? these spiritual steps help YOU to free yourself... and you are worth the effort!
when you get to the root of that, you will find yourself in this situation again... you will know you have overcome the enemy when you no longer react... no need to defend yourself. Instead, you will confidently take your BFs attitude.. or ROFL with the rest of the girls. and still follow through with your delicious plans to take care of yourself ....completely unaffected by what's going on outside you.... (light and free!)
With the 12 steps, our tormentors become our mentors... the poison becomes the medicine... and we end up feeling grateful for it all! For this reason, I never say, I'm sorry you are going through this because...... nothing happens in God's world by mistake. nothing.
My ESH is, inventory work reveals this type of experience has value and isn't as "bad" or unfortunate as it appears (delusion)... it's more of an "opportunity" presented to you for growth.
-- Edited by 2HP on Tuesday 2nd of July 2019 12:23:18 PM
-- Edited by 2HP on Tuesday 2nd of July 2019 12:26:29 PM
-- Edited by 2HP on Tuesday 2nd of July 2019 04:43:49 PM
Hi all,
I have a question about how to handle someone (a friend who's an acquaintance to some degree but a central part of my friend group). She can be very selfish and seems to think that everyone's plans should revolve around her. She got angry at me in front of everyone because I chose to leave a pool party early and not go out to a bar with everyone else. She guilt tripped me and kept pushing my buttons. It was infuriating.
Since she is closer to other folks in our friends group, I don't know how to handle her directly. According to others in the group, she'll brush it under the rug and pretend like nothing happened. Her passive aggressive comments really push my buttons because my XAH was a pro at that and the way she got on my case in front of everyone else was infuriating. I wanted to go home and do laundry and prepare for a challenging work week. She did not WANT to understand and I found myself getting defensive. I actually wound up slamming a door when I left in a rideshare ride.
Anyhow, what would be your tactic on handling this? My bf was there and he has known this woman a few years but his tactic for handling her is to blow her off and ignore. I get my buttons pushed and tend to take things personally. I'm trying to figure out which program tools would work best here, lol?? Thoughts?
Arrrrgh, those people pop up everywhere, don't they? I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.
I notice that one of the things I've had the hardest time dealing with is the need to convince other people to see, or acknowledge, or accept my point of view. How many hours and days and weeks I've spent with imaginary conversations in my head in which I've tried to explain things to people until finally (in my head) they got it! Except even in my head they never get it. It's like if they refuse to agree with you, they've still got you on the hook. And so their incentive not to agree is really strong.
The sayings that have helped me have been:
Recovery isn't winning, it's not playing. (I must have repeated this to myself a thousand times! finally it began to sink in.)
Drop the rope.
You don't have to show up to every argument you're invited to.
I also remember the phenomenon of emotional contagion the person who has the strongest emotions "transmits" them to the other person and the other person "catches" those emotions like catching a cold. So if someone gets irrationally angry at me in the supermarket check-out line, and starts yelling that I have too many items or whatever, suddenly I'm angry too! I've caught the emotion. So people who are mean or angry or try to get at us have that emotion strongly, and then we tend to catch it and feel that way too. Or if they have trouble letting go of an incident, then we "catch" having trouble letting go too. So I try to say to myself, "This strong emotion I'm feeling isn't really all mine some of it is just their emotion leaking over to me." That helps me detach from the emotion and take it less seriously. Then my more mature reaction is to realize that if I have strong calmness, that calm will infect the situation and the other person will be calmer and the whole situation will be calmer and I can leave with a sense of calm. And my less mature reaction is to realize that if I refuse to "catch" the emotion and play the game, I win, and frustrate the other person!
In the moment, lots of times I just have to go through the emotions of what a wise and mature person would do, and wait for my emotions to catch up. Eventually they do dissipate and I feel better and can leave it all behind.
I'm sorry that it sounds as if you'll be in a position to see this person more in the future. I guess the less mature response (that is, mine!) would be to see that you'll have more chances to frustrate her and drive her crazy with your calm non-reactiveness.
Getting triggered in public is difficult. Especially in "early" recovery... we aren't comfortable with the tools to just reach out and utilize one! The ESH above were both very good. Perhaps some thought into WHY those actions triggered you. Then perhaps utilizing, "I do not have to play this game!"
I agree, it does sound like you will be around this person a bit... perhaps practice saying, "I don't know what is lacking in YOU that won't allow you to accept MY decision about this!"
But then that may open up something that is better left closed! LOL!
It may be better to just acknowledge that sentence in your head and then say, "My decision is final, period!" and then walk away.
I agree though... these types of people are highly frustrating!
Peace to ya this week!
Whenever I encounter difficult people, number one - I see myself in them. I do that by recognizing how I used to be pre-program putting everyone outside of myself in charge of my happiness. The world revolved around me and everyone's behaviors and actions were direct response to me.
Fortunately, Al-Anon taught me different and that I had choices. That other people's behaviors had nothing to do with me whatsoever and that I didn't have to allow their behavior to alter my feelings. Or at least if something they said did alter my feelings, I was then in charge of working through those feelings in a positive manner.
I agree - your boyfriend has the right approach. Brush her off. Don't join her dance when she tries to bait you with guilt-tripping and snide remarks. Just like when an alcoholic tries to bait you.
I was also taught that I can speak up for myself if necessary. I can let a person know in no uncertain terms that I find their behavior unacceptable and unnecessary and that if it continues I'll be removing myself from the premises. The key to that is remembering that just because I said something it does NOT mean that person is obligated to change their behavior for me - many times they won't.
Finally if I know someone who is difficult and whose company is always "optional" in my life, I just choose not to be around them, period. In a social circle, however, that does not mean I tell all my friends "I'm not coming because so-and-so will be there." (that's then dragging innocents into my own personal relationship with the troublesome person.)
Last and not least - it always helps to pray for that person.
She is actually moving back to Montana for the next 4 months; she is a traveling nurse. So actually I wont have to be around her much for now. Everyone in the group has spoiled her and they all make a big deal about her coming to town or leaving town. She already had given my bf and I grief earlier in the day because we went camping on Saturday night and it was her last Sat night in town. My bfs response was I didnt put two and two together. And he walked away letting her stew there while standing in the kitchen. Normally I take his lead but this was the first time she ever laid into me personally. Ridiculous selfish and needy behavior! Some days im less equipped!
Hi Andromeda, I sometimes need to remind myself of our saying in Alanon - "I don't have to show up to every fight I'm invited to." Sometimes I react with J.A.D.E. Honestly, I feel like I just gave my power away later on when I feel more balanced emotionally and look at the situation realistically. Isn't interesting how people will fall all over someone when they are a visitor. I even see this at Alanon meetings when someone pops in who lives in a other state. Some members seem to find the visitors shares almost magical as if es&h related to being affected by the disease of alcoholism from one region to another is any different. I'm less inclined I suppose because those of us who include online recovery see ourselves no different than Alanoners on the other side of the world. Your choice to put yourselves first sounds healthy to me. She obviously has many people to be give her attention. And let's remember, it isn't as if you totally skipped hanging out with her while she's in town. You just don't see her as SHE who must be adored. Lol And could she possibly need to keep her reputation up as the one everyone just can't get enough of? Oh well if that's what it is. I think we have all had the experience of finding the courage to say NO and refuse an invitation if we've been in Alanon awhile. My go to response has been to say, "You know I think You'll be Ok." I don't say it sarcastically. I say it matter of factly. I then change the subject, excuse myself politely, direct positive conversation to someone nearby, whatever feels right. This my way of validating my right to choose what I want over what another wants.I say what I mean and mean what I say without saying it mean. Sometimes I may take the high road and even say that I hope its a great time and I look forward to hearing about it. For me, it's about being consistent in my responses vs reacting even if the reaction is internal and I am the only one who knows about the dis-ease I am feeling inwardly. I don't want to be experiencing that inner turmoil. I want to keep my serenity. I can say to myself in such moments - God help me. I can take a deep breath and release that crummy feeling. This to shall pass. And I have given myself permission to walk away no matter where the conversation is at with the other person. I don't have to participate in a contest of wills. It's not a sign of losing to protect myself from toxic personalities. "Would you excuse me moment" followed by not returning is acceptable to me." These occurrences are really gifts in disguise because we can then inventory and get to the root of not only why we are affected but what tools would work best for us in such situations based on how we are feeling from one day to another. That's for your share. I like how you choose to have balance when socializing with others. Sometimes too much togetherness can bring dissention especially when booze is involved or boredom sets in. (((hugs)) TT
-- Edited by tiredtonite on Monday 1st of July 2019 05:58:32 PM
I am better able to accept others for who they are (and yes, some people are just plain a$$es) and not allow them to take away my joy and serenity. It is my choice to just say, "Excuse Me" and walk away if another person is being less that respectful. And, Al-Anon has given me the power to decide what is and what is not respectful. My boundaries are consistent and applicable to all I spend time with. When I am not consistent with my boundaries, I am setting myself up for disappointment and resentments.
We had a long talk tonight at tacos about taking our own inventory vs. that of others. I have been told that labeling others (passive aggressive guilt tripping) is a possible form of denial about my own defects that need attention. One of the gals kept saying another at work was pushing her buttons. Everyone else kept suggesting she was allowing the other to push them. She was not hearing what we were saying, simply because she didn't want to.
In moments like you faced, two things often pop into my mind - How important is this really? and Bless Them, Change Me. Over and over and over again! You got this - use your program and tools and you will find your peace with it!!!
Dang, sometimes it's harder than you think to stay on your own side of the street, ugh.
I just had dinner after a tough workout at the gym and now I'm going to take an epsom salts bath and relax. Shutting down the phone and just being mindful and present is all that matters.
One, two, three, slip... one, two, three, slip...
I'll never forget when I heard about the 12-step waltz. For a long time, I rested on the first three steps, they do provide that "good enough" feeling and sense of satisfaction. Well... along with heavy reliance on others to pull me up when I'm challenged again. I rested at step 3 for a few years into my recovery even though I had a sponsor. She was one who encouraged my reliance upon her (codependence) wanting me to make contact with her each and every day. Later, when I moved to another state, I was blessed to end up with a sponsor who "taught me how to fish and feed myself" if you will -- how to "use" the al-anon tool-kit laying at my feet -- the 12 steps.
Unfortunately the first 3 steps only take us so far. They provide relief. But do not root out the real cause for the problem within.
Al-anon's specific tool for resentments is step 4 inventory. (What I read in your post is that YOU became angry with her and her behaviors...?) The enemy is never all the assoholics "out there" nor is the solution in trying to overcome THEM. The enemy is inside, causing us to feel threatened and lose our balance.
Sure, we can "let it go" or brush it off, we're all successful at that after emotional hangover wears off. But there is a second part to LET GO... it's LETTING GOD or letting the remaining steps free us from old perceptions that keep us stuck and in bondage.
I am confident that your inventory work on this experience (as well as reviewing your old inventory of former AH) will help reveal what needs to be overcome in YOU. Higher Power is merely using these people to change and strengthen YOU, do you see? these spiritual steps help YOU to free yourself... and you are worth the effort!
when you get to the root of that, you will find yourself in this situation again... you will know you have overcome the enemy when you no longer react... no need to defend yourself. Instead, you will confidently take your BFs attitude.. or ROFL with the rest of the girls. and still follow through with your delicious plans to take care of yourself ....completely unaffected by what's going on outside you.... (light and free!)
With the 12 steps, our tormentors become our mentors... the poison becomes the medicine... and we end up feeling grateful for it all! For this reason, I never say, I'm sorry you are going through this because...... nothing happens in God's world by mistake. nothing.
My ESH is, inventory work reveals this type of experience has value and isn't as "bad" or unfortunate as it appears (delusion)... it's more of an "opportunity" presented to you for growth.
-- Edited by 2HP on Tuesday 2nd of July 2019 12:23:18 PM
-- Edited by 2HP on Tuesday 2nd of July 2019 12:26:29 PM
-- Edited by 2HP on Tuesday 2nd of July 2019 04:43:49 PM