I know this is a basic question, but these days every little thing that the pharmaceutical companies want to make money from is now called a disease, and then they can sell something to combat it and make a lot of money.  I understand that some people have a predisposition to it, and for them to stop drinking is very difficult.  But for others it's psychological.  They are self-medicating.  That's what is was for my boyfriend who passed away.  When he stopped drinking he did not go through any of the typical symptoms.  He just stopped.  It was no disease.  He apologized immediately for all the B.S. and did not slipped back into it.  We were closer than we had ever been, and he thanked me for putting up with him.

So please explain why excessive drinking is always considered to be a disease. 

I'm not trying to do anything other than understand.  So many people seem to refer to someone who drinks too much as being an alcoholic and having a disease, without verification.  I know this is not the case.  I understand about it.  Do most people just assume the drunk in their life  has the disease? 

I was just looking for input.  Thank you. 

not all exessive alcohoL  consumption is identified as alcoholism

Alcoholism or alcohol dependence is defined by the American Medical Association (AMA) as "a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations."
Description

Alcoholism is characterized by:
a prolonged period of frequent, heavy alcohol use.

the inability to control drinking once it has begun.

physical dependence manifested by withdrawal symptoms when the individual stops using alcohol.

tolerance, or the need to use more and more alcohol to achieve the same effects.

not all excessive alcohol us is referred to as alcoholism
The effects of alcoholism are far reaching. Alcohol affects every body system, causing a wide range of health problems. Problems include poor nutrition, memory disorders, difficulty with balance and walking, liver disease (including cirrhosis and hepatitis), high blood pressure, muscle weakness (including the heart), heart rhythm disturbances, anemia, clotting disorders, decreased immunity to infections, gastrointestinal inflammation and irritation, acute and chronic problems with the pancreas, low blood sugar, high blood fat content, interference with reproductive fertility, increased risk of cancer of the liver, esophagus, and breast, weakened bones, sleep disturbances, anxiety, and depression. About 20% of adults admitted to the hospital (for any reason) are alcohol dependent. Men are more than twice as likely to be alcohol dependent than women, and smokers who are alcohol dependent are much more likely to develop serious or fatal health problems associated with alcoholism.
On a personal level, alcoholism, in many cases, leads to difficulties in marital and other relationships, domestic violence, child abuse or neglect, difficulty finding or keeping a job, impaired school or work performance, homelessness, and legal problems such as driving while intoxicated (DUI).
According to information derived from the United States National Longitudinal Alcohol Epidemiologic Study released in 2006, about 8% of American adults are dependent on alcohol (estimates range from 5-10%). About 34% of adult Americans do not use alcohol at all. Another 44% are occasional or non-dependent users. Alcohol is the third leading cause of preventable death in the United States (smoking and obesity rank first and second) and is responsible for about 85,000 deaths annually, about half from injury and half from disease. Alcoholism is involved in about 30% of homicides and 22% of suicides. It is the cause of about 20% of fatal motor vehicle accidents and is a contributing factor in between one-third and one-half of all vehicular accidents. Alcoholism costs the United States about $185 billion annually in costs related to violence, traffic accidents, lost work productivity, and direct medical expenses. The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism estimates that at least 6.6 million children under age 18 live in households with at least one alcoholic parent and that before age 18 about 25% of children are exposed to family alcohol dependency or alcohol

In alanon we refrain from focusing  on the acloholic and attempt to focus on ourselves to see why WE do what we do

-- E

Thank you hotrod for taking the time to provide the info.  I know all about alcoholism.  I looked into it when my boyfriend died because of his alcohol consumption.  He was never diagnosed as an alcoholic.  He started drinking when his mother died when he was 21.  My question was why people always seem to call everyone who drinks too much an alcoholic with a disease.  Even here, some people seem to automatically assume that about the person one is talking about.  Yes, it's about what WE do.  I knew that when I signed up.  Thanks again.

Wildflower I am sorry for your loss . I lost my son to this dreadful disease over 10 years ago . He was  an alcoholic but that did not stop me from trying to fix it

Thank you.  I'm sorry you lost your son.  The pain can be acute.  Yes, trying to fix it seems to be what loved ones do.   It's been 31 years now with my boyfriend, and I worked it through as best I could.  My mom tried to fix my brother all the years he was in prison. 

I'm here on this site currently to try to figure out how best to handle myself relative to my step-daughter.  She was grown when I met her.  I don't know if she's an alcoholic or just likes to drink.  After 29 years I'm burned out with her.  Thankfully she does not live nearby.  My husband has put limits on her interactions with us.  I need reinforcement to not give in and keep trying to fix her.  She does not want it.  She doesn't think anything is wrong with her...you know the excuses, I'm sure.  She can be so buttery and manipulative.  What she did a couple of weeks ago made me realize I had to take steps to protect my emotions. 

I am glad you are looking to Al-anon for self-care, good for you!

It was explained to me that the word disease comes from "dis-ease" or "not at ease" if you will. The mind, body, and /or spirit.... something is "not at ease" or there would be no desire to look outside, no desire to self-medicate or escape or whatever...

When I came to al-anon, they told me it was not my place to label anyone "alcoholic." It was acceptable (and helpful and healing) to admit that I myself was being affected by another's drinking.. and later learned I had been affected by alcoholic drinking since childhood. Honestly seeing myself "affected" was a giant leap for me as I began personal recovery.

But I did try to get a professional diagnosis of alcoholism to force my (former) husband to get help. I arranged many appointments with various professionals. Sadly, it was completely fruitless because he did not believe his drinking was a problem. To this day, his health problems get worse and worse and he just laughs it off (love your "buttery and manipulative" description.)

I had a BIL whose wife was "affected" by his drinking and she divorced him...The children must have been "affected" because they refused to see him ever again. His employers had to have been "affected" because they fired him... A judge sent him in jail for failure to pay child support but job after job, he was always fired and in the end...

everyone threw up their powerless hands. Years later, his decaying body was discovered in his apartment, he died all alone.

So my experience is the "professionals" are also powerless. over. alcohol.  Until a person decides for himself that he drinks alcoholically, not much can be done to turn the tide. I now accept the fact that some people would rather die than change.

For me, STEP ONE is a treasure, I can finally wave the white flag and admit I've been trying to fight a battle I can NOT win....

My serenity is in direct proportion to my level of acceptance.

I hope this helps, my friend. keep coming back.

-- Edited by 2HP on Saturday 29th of June 2019 07:48:30 PM

Thank you ZHP for explaining a little about your situation and your understanding of the issues at hand.  The thing is, being honest about it, I never had reason to care about my step-daughter, except she is another human being, so I care generically and she is my husband's daughter so I care on that level.  But I didn't know her as a little girl, and she has never shown any genuine qualities that I could care about.  I know there are good qualities there.  I can see them through the din of alcohol.  I can almost always see the good in people, and then they mess me over.  With her, my husband says she was always the way she is now.  Even when she was a toddler.  Now she drinks and takes opioids.  She convinced the medical profession and Soc. Security that she needs disability payments.  She does not.  She's faking it.  Then everyone is supposed to feel sorry for her and pay her way.  She sells some of the opioids the doctors prescribe for extra cash.  We don't pay her way.  It's like dumping money down a rat hole.  So I have to learn effective ways to protect myself from her and at the same time not make it more difficult for my husband.

I'm too tired on the inside to fight any more unnecessary battles.  My husband and I are now officially old.  My husband is ill in some ways.  I need what energy I have to take care of him as he needs it.  I refuse to coddle a 48 year-old-infant - his daughter.   

2HP thanks for the encouragement.  I keep making the decisions to do as you have done, and then some sign of encouragement comes along that she has changed.  So I encourage her along her path and then there she is again, under excessive influence and being a jerk.  So now I have to not give into that anymore.

The way I understand it, alcoholism is a disorder, rather than a moral problem or a willpower problem or a bad-decision problem. Regarding it as a disease emphasizes that it is disorder that involves multiple parts, usually a physical addiction and a mental derangement that means that alcoholics can't get perspective on their drinking and acknowledge how damaging it is. Denial, lying (to themselves as well as others), secrecy, and obsession characterize alcoholism.  This is different from someone who, say, just makes a silly decision now and again.

Some people do drink excessively and then one day they can just decide to stop and they do and they stay stopped.  Those are not alcoholics. 

Alcoholics keep drinking even when there are innumerable reasons to stop, and if they do want to stop, they almost certainly need a formal, structured program of help and support.  Alcoholism has a compulsive quality about it that means that they really do not have the ability just to stop and stay stopped on their own.

So I think calling alcoholism a disease emphasizes that we can't just explain the problem to them and expect them to stop, any more than you could explain delusions to a schizophrenic and expect them to snap out of it and never have delusions again, or any more than you could expect a diabetic to process their blood sugar differently merely by explaining the need for it.

But even though alcoholics, schizophrenics, and diabetics have a disorder or a disease, that doesn't mean they can't treat it and lead healthy lives. They all need to follow best practices and get help and support, educate themselves, and stay vigilant.  It's not the underlying tendency to have alcoholism that is the problem it is when alcoholics don't make the decision to treat it.  Of course it's difficult because their thinking is not orderly.  But generally they have some times when they can see straight enough to know they need help, even if they don't know how to get all the way out of the woods. So deciding to treat the disease is also important.

Thanks Mattie, Bo and SerenityRUS for your insights.  As mentioned, I understood about the disease, what I didn't understand is why everyone who drinks too much is often said to have a disease.  I knew this was not the case. My task is not allowing the current over-consumer to dominate my thoughts, when it is time for me to speak and when it is time for me to remain silent.  Thankfully I have not had to see her since 2013.  Whenever she decides she's coming to visit my husband finds ways to discourage her from doing that.  Since she's always broke she doesn't have the money to come.  We would have to pay her way home and we are not going to do that.

Thanks.  Since the three people who drank too much who were in my life were not diagnosed, I will refrain from labels. So I will be playing with words.

 Hmmm... I am not an American- so maybe the AMA ruling does not apply?

I would be a fool to discount whatt hey say however!

My first qualifier was never diagnosed with the disease, and definitely would not have accepted that label!

So if this definition business- becomes a barrier... so maybe we have no right to be in Alanon!

And I would be a fool to believe that too.

The condition- alcoholism- from where I am sitting, is extremely difficult to diagnose and to treat, period!  ...

The step-daughter who is the current pain in the backside offender has dropped off the radar at present.  Yea!!!!!  I've decided not to deal with her.  It does no good whatsoever.

My concern was what to call the person who drinks too much.  Apparently it's okay to call them an alcoholic even if they've not been diagnosed as one.

Thanks.  I've seen the difference between psychological and physical dependency.  Three of my cousins were alcoholics.  They were sisters.  All three of them died of dementia.  No one is the family is acknowledging it was the alcohol that did it.  Two of them acknowledged they were alcoholics.  The third one stopped drinking after she got a DUII and her husband told her she could not come home until she stopped drinking.  She stopped.  She acknowledged the drinking was a problem.  But not long before she died she was still denying she was an alcoholic.  It was genetic.  Her maternal grandfather had a severe problem.  Got drunk on a railroad track and the train ran over him.   Good stuff alcohol, isn't it?  She just passed at the end of June.  I miss her.

 Great topic, Wildflower...  ...

Tradition 10 says that Alanon has no opinion on outside issues. We are neutral.

Personally, along with emotions, I believe that our opinions count- and believe that we can express them individually.

The collective expression of the group conscience, in tradition 2 is important also. My view is the the group conscience is made up of our ESH, shared over time.

Some groups put a clamper on certain times. And groups can do this- with Tradition 4. Some groups used to clamp down on "the poor me's" and the good old "pity party". But I think a newer generation [I think] tends to embrace and move through this phase. 

Like yours- my family system is chock full of drinkers... and the same sort of family stories ripple through the generations. In recent years i have managed to address my own childhood trauma- and have attempted to modify the tragic consequences that arise from this.

So the topic you raise is interesting, at the very least. Vital, even. ...

David. G, what are these traditions you are talking about?  I'm not familiar with them.  Everyone has their form of escapism.  With drinkers it's the booze.  As they say, name your poison.  I got my poison from a source that others think of as truth and guidance when I was a kid.  I won't go into that here, because I don't want to offend anyone.  But I will agree that we all have our opinions, and without them, I'd guess that none of us would be here on this site.  It's impossible to be completely objective.  All of our lenses are tinted with something.

  ...We have the 12 Steps, Wildflower; and then the 12 Traditions.

Also the 12 Concepts- which relates to the wider issues of Alanon world wide.

Concept 4 I love to bits. Participation is the key to harmony. This is not just about the harmony within Alanon. But it does end up creating a harmony within.  ... 

Our message board here [I think} was created to provide a link to our chat meetings. Our chat meetings are there, of course- but the message board evolved as a meeting in itself- which we can attend at any time, really.

I think it does serve to showcase recovery- from north, east, west and south... and like us all... it really is 'a work in progress...'... 

Thank you.  Can you tell me the advantage to Chat as opposed to just responding to a thread? 

WildFlower wrote:

---

Thank you.  Can you tell me the advantage to Chat as opposed to just responding to a thread? 

---

  After a chat meeting- the discussion evaporates. Here our words seem to linger forever. Personally I see that as an advantage.  ...

      Then there are face to face meetings everywhere. Not to be sneezed at. Like most members the groups go through phases, and one or two might not be working out...

   Wildflower- what I appreciate most about your topic- is an opportunity to talk through the issues. I believe that the issue you raise is a core issue for a lot of us. Thanks. 

SerenityRUS, thank you for the info.  The YouTube idea sounds like a good one.  I never thought to look there.  I'm really not a meetings person.  I live in the boonies.  My husband is ill, and I don't leave him alone.  The idea of finding something online appeals to me.

David G.  I'm glad to hear that you like the topic.  I, too, like to have things written down.  (I'm a writer by profession.) Like you say, discussions evaporate.  I remember talking to my dad on the phone once.  I always told him I loved him.  But sometimes he would say that he liked to get love letters.  So after that I periodically wrote him a love letter.  That way he could hold my love in his hand and look back to it.  He'd had a hard life and was a good man to the core.  I miss him.

    Yes... I am a writer too... but not really a profession for me  ... more like a vocation...  ... 

DavidG what kinds of things do you write?  I write novels...when I need to work something out it ends up in one of my novels.  I have yet to write one about an alcoholic, but I did write one where the characters made moonshine.  A few of my uncles in my dad's family did that, back when.  I played with the storyline.

 Poetry... from my teenage years... which kept my nose above water... 5 years ago I wrote a local history. From out of that I am putting together a scholarly work on a 19th century character...

                  hmmm yes... maybe I sensed your sharing was nuanced... a very close use of words...

...I said here, to another newcomer... that I don't make contact outside of meetings, mainly for gender issues. And group trust, essentially.

I always say our greeting time, sharing time, and coffee time are all rolled into one here!

Unlike a f2f meeting we do not have an egg-timer on the table...

...the essential ingredients here- are essential, naturally...  ... ...and since many members- come along in a state of confusion and stress- chit chat, pets, hobbies, garden do not go amiss, as far as I am concerned.

I find that this gives us a breathing space, sometimes, where we can gain that priceless gift of serenity. Sensing it in others, sometimes before we see it in ourselves.

Putting aside that point- about gender- I have had coffee face to face with Hotrod here, after attending her F2F meeting!

We have family stateside, and I would travel out of my way to attend a local meeting with any member here.

And I would come up to the shopping centre to meet and chat with any member passing through this part of the world.

There is not much of a divide between virtual and actual reality. But criss-crossing that brings great rewards; engenders trust.

I would warn you! I come from a fairly rural background- and will ramble and chat, until the cows come home!

Traditionally, in this part of the world, we sometimes have elaborate welcomes, and lingering soulful farewells...  ...

So your writing interests are diverse.  I've generally found on forums that outside contact rarely lasts very long.  I am also from a rural setting and am generally country girl friendly.  I've been told that everyone isn't nice.  Duh, as if I didn't know that, based on some of the things that have happened to me.  Sometimes the guard has to be up.  But I would prefer it not to have to be that way.

   Wildflower- opening a wet Sunday afternoon- ducking in and out of the showers.

I another group I am in we discussed the fact that we do not have to like everybody, let alone love them.

Maybe, instead we should love and care for ourselves, and then seek the company of people we are worthy of?

In the usual Alanon group ending we say: "You may not like all of us, but love us in a very special way- the same way we already love you."

The reason for this is that we share some pretty life-changing ESH inside of the group. And it does create a bond of trust and respect.

But outside of the rooms is very different and most of us most likely prefer to retain our anonymity.  ...

Very much about boundaries. And it does give us the opportunity to create healthy boundaries around ourselves.  ...