On March 4, 1980 my older brother, the guy who dabbed mud on my bee sting to stop the pain when I was four-years-old, shot and killed four of his neighbors with his deer hunting rifle. His actions nearly destroyed my family. Rather than delve into it here, I am providing a link to an article I wrote about it and posted on my website. The names of have been changed in the article to protect the vulnerable. My brother abused alcohol and prescription drugs. I did not mention the alcohol in the article. I'm not sure why. I didn't know how bad his drinking or drug problem was until we cleaned out his house after the murders and found the bottles. This is my story.
-- Edited by WildFlower on Wednesday 26th of June 2019 09:46:40 PM
-- Edited by WildFlower on Wednesday 26th of June 2019 09:47:22 PM
-- Edited by Iamhere on Wednesday 26th of June 2019 09:48:50 PM
-- Edited by WildFlower on Wednesday 26th of June 2019 09:55:49 PM
DavidG said
Jun 26, 2019
Oh boy, Wildflower...
...that is a gruelling share... ... the worst I have over heard- maybe sits beside the sexual abuse- and it's impact!
but, hey! [Swallows a big lump in his throat...]... our ESH is what makes our groups- and our group meetings.
I will need ever turn my back on a share, with experience strength and hope... brave, courageous... utmost respect, Wildflower.
WildFlower said
Jun 26, 2019
Thank you for the edit, Iamhere.
WildFlower said
Jun 26, 2019
Thank you, DavidG. If you haven't had the chance, I invite you to read the article on my website. The whole mess tore my heart out. I had to build a new one from scratch.
DavidG said
Jun 26, 2019
I am not surprised! Oh Boy!
The courage to move on from that situation must have been stupendous!
We do end up re-inventing ourselves, slowly, over time... my friend...
That is a heart wrenching story and must have and perhaps still is a torment for your family. I hope your brother's wife and children are ok. I'm glad to hear that you have built your life again and hope you have found some peace. I wish you the best. From your website it looks like you have focused your energy on creativity and offering it to others. Thank you for sharing your story.
hotrod said
Jun 27, 2019
Thank you for sharing this painful experience . Sending prayers and positive thoughts your way.
i AM so HAPPY THAT YOU FOUND MIP
Lyne said
Jun 27, 2019
{{{{WildFlower}}}} That's about as serious, heart-wrenching, and debilitating as things can get with addiction. And yet here you are, a survivor of trauma, and reaching out for help through alanon. Bravo to you. Keep on keeping on, Lyne
WildFlower said
Jun 27, 2019
Thank you DavidG. Yes, moving on was very difficult. It destroyed my belief system. My husband at that time forbid me to tell his wealthy family about the murders. He turned away from me. He was ashamed of me. It took me six years to finally leave him. It took me that long to be together enough to do that. I had a huge extended family who were very religious, but they did not offer any comfort. Only my grand aunt Lottie did. She was 45 years older than me. I barely knew her when I was growing up. But I had moved to the area where she lived, and I reached out to her, several months after the killings, she was there. She came to the legal proceedings with me when she could. But she was in her 80s by then, and was not always well enough to go with me. It was a 150 mile trip. Yes, I had to reinvent myself. There was no other way that worked for me. Thanks for understanding. It's sometimes an ongoing process.
IamLynn, yes, it was heart-wrenching. It was worst for my parents. My brother's wife passed away way too young. I'm sure it was from the stress of it all. She had to raise two teenagers when she was devastated herself. She coped by overeating and that stressed all the systems in her body. She died in 2000. My dad died in 1983, my mom in 2009 at age 91. My brother, from prison, threatened to send one of his friends from prison when the guy got out, to the nursing home where Mom lived for the last three years of her life. I had to tell the nursing home administrator about it, so they could protect Mom, just in case my brother did that. He didn't want her there because it would spend away his part of the inheritance, and his kids wouldn't get anything. She actually liked it there, after telling me for years not to put her in one, but she was so very ill. And she fell in love with one of the other residents. They were cute together, and then he passed, like her second and third husband. Dad was number one. My sister had a bad heart and died of breast cancer in 2005 because they could not give her the treatment she needed - it would have further damaged her heart. She was a worrier, and she and her husband fought about my brother. Aunt Lottie died in 2000 at the age of 97. All the older family is gone now. The ones suffering the worst effects now are my brother's two children. They are now 50 and 54. They've never been okay. His son became paranoid and pulled away from the family, and his daughter became an alcoholic and pulled away. I tried to help them, but it did not work.
Thank you hotrod, and for making me feel welcome. One of the friends I made a few months after the murders was the professor in my master's program. He said, "You belong to a select fraternity whose members never meet, the families of murderers."
Yes, I decided to try to make a difference in the world. While before the murders I had planned to become a counselor, afterward I did not have the energy for it. I had to heal myself. I became a writer. I started writing the story of what it's like in 1981. It took until 1993 to have it accepted by a publisher. Then the publisher butchered it. I was devastated by what she did to it. My literary agent said that no one wanted to read that much religion. But religion was woven into my brother's story and our lives. Anyway, years later I rewrote it and this time published it myself through Smashwords. It's an ebook. And it's free. Although on my website it says it can be purchased, I decided to make it free. I've written twelve books. At the moment those that are still in print are free also. The murder story will remain free. I'm not sure about the rest.
The world is spiraling quickly into a mess, and I want to help. Since I decided to not go the traditional publishing route again because they can destroy the author's original message, I decided to do it myself with all of them. I write visionary fiction. Some call it magical realism. I have reality mixed in with the fiction. When I need to work something through I write a book about it.
I plan to upload a picture of my brother, one taken four years before he died. I just found it online a couple of weeks ago. He looks so lost. And one of him when he was a kid. If I can manage to do it. I'll do it as a separate attachment, since right now I have to locate the most recent picture of him.
Thanks for the welcome, everyone.
WildFlower said
Jun 27, 2019
Thank you Lyne for your support and your kindness.
-- Edited by WildFlower on Thursday 27th of June 2019 10:38:52 AM
WildFlower said
Jun 27, 2019
Here is the picture of my family when I was a baby. My brother was ten at the time. The next picture is of him when he was 74, 4 years before he died.
I have a brother who is an alcoholic and at one time abused drugs. The only time he was sober was when in jail. When he got out the first relationship he sought was with alcohol. My memories of him growing up were of a happy go lucky boy and young man. He met his high school sweetheart and they married eventually. His drinking became more and more of a problem until his wife threatened to leave him if he continued. Unfortunately she decided to begin a relationship with another man before ending it with my brother which complicated matters to the extreme. This began his downward spiral until he lost everything, his wife, his home, his job and his family. We had to separate ourselves from him as protection because he began to come around in need of shelter but not at the expense of giving up alcohol. Friends began to help him out and he ended up in a cabin without amenities and drifted in and out of our lives until my mom passed and we lost touch with him.
Truthfully the glue that held my family together were my parents and now I have drifted away from my childhood family with only having my sister to connect with. That's one out of 5 brothers and one sister. My dad left a letter to be read to all of us after they both passed and it was their final wish that we stay as a family and never lose contact with each other. I'm afraid that speaking for myself I have not honored their wishes. Sometimes even my relationship with my sister is hard. She too suffers from alcohol abuse and often goes to bed with one too many glasses of wine and those prescription pill you alluded to. My mother in later life could not bear to look at photographs of her son my brother the youngest in our family. She clammed up and withdrew within herself I think as a defense against being a parent having to face the fact that her child was deeply troubled and no matter what she did might not recover. The rest of the family closed ranks around her because she could not say no to him as he began to try and use her as a flop house or a way to get a few dollars. It's almost as if I have to completely divide my thoughts of my brother as a child and my brother now as if they are two separate people one who was bright and alive to one who became a shadow of himself. I also call him a lost soul and I'm not sure how he is today. Your analogy of your brother who tended to your bee stings brought that to my mind.
It's easier for me not to think about him because then I would want to know how he is or ask after him and it just dredges up all the emotions that I choose to suppress. I stopped wanting to reach out to someone who didn't want to reach back. Al Anon for me is a way to release myself from the hopelessness and helplessness that fills up my mind. It is my son in trouble due to alcohol abuse who has been my catalyst for seeking an answer for myself and Al anon is there to help me and it seems millions of others deal with how we deal with all the tragedies that substance abuse particularly alcohol plays in these tragic stories.
The photographs of your family and later you brother reminded me of the last time I saw him which was at my mom's funeral. His face had taken on a look I can't explain as if he was a reflection of the alcohol no longer him. I dread the idea that this disease runs through my family but I have to acknowledge it or I can't help myself let alone my children. I'm grateful that my mom was a story teller and didn't gloss over her life or my father's. It's a way I connect with them both and can understand them a little better knowing the heavy baggage they had to carry from their past before we were born. Life here can be hard I think and it's so good that there are groups like al anon non judgemental welcoming understanding and connected with all the other groups of people just trying to make life better for themselves and others.
Sorry this is a long comment. Once again I'll say I'm glad you shared your story. Thank you.
WildFlower said
Jun 27, 2019
IamLynn, thanks for sharing your story. I don't mind it being long. It's heart-wrenching that so many people drift into taking substance and that it destroys them and the ones the care about. How old is your brother? It's really sad when a person has to protect themselves from those they care about. Your momma sounds like mine. Mom said to never give up on him. I do understand why your sister-in-law fooled around on him. Sometimes it's the only release one has. A person doesn't necessarily start out to do that. It can just happen, when you are in such bad shape that you feel like you are drowning. One of the titles I had for my book about him was Trying Not To Drown. I've attached the cover art I did for it. This is how I felt. I was drowning.
Do you have any support now other than here at Al-Anon? You said you almost have to divide your thoughts about him. I had to learn to do that too. As a woman I had to learn compartmentalization to survive. Otherwise, what was awful in one part of my life, messed up everything else. It's taken a long time to learn. Men do it more automatically. Women tend to spaghettify everything, tangles of spaghetti from one thing reach over into everything else.
If you need to talk about your brother feel free to send me a private message. My brother is gone, so I'm better able to settle it all now. Your brother is still alive, and an ongoing issue. I'm willing to listen.
-- Edited by WildFlower on Thursday 27th of June 2019 02:35:59 PM
Thank you WildFlower. My brother is in his fifties now. I think in our mom's case she just grew to be silent about my brother. She could not say "no more" to him but we knew that it would break her if she continued. She was still at her house and he was slowly setting it up to come and go. To see the heartache in her face was heartbreaking. As a family it was more important to protect her than it was to help him. Everyone told him that we want to see you, come over for breakfast, we can sit and talk but we can't drink together. There may have been other private conversations with him that I don't know about but everyone put a barrier up and he eventually stopped coming around. It was for protection, not in fear of physical harm. but for fear that we would become so involved in his life and so immersed in his illness that we and our families would be destroyed in the process especially because he did not think it was a problem. At this point I need to contact one of my brothers who still live in our home town if I want to hear any news.
Your painting is very thought provoking especially hearing your story. I like your use of color. I know a man who did the same thing you did, learned to paint from a televised program. His paintings were really good also and reminded me of the highwaymen paintings. Thank you for the offer of a talk. Some of my good memories with my mom were sitting around the kitchen table and having a Coffee Klatch. She came from a Irish Family and was a good storyteller.
WildFlower said
Jun 28, 2019
IamLynn, thank you for sharing more with me about your mom and your brother. It is interesting the way that the alcoholic does not think he/she is a problem. It's true that getting too involved in the user's life can be so destructive. I understand you wanting to protect your mom. I wanted to protect mine too, but I couldn't. She would allow him to call her from prison, and often he would tell her how horrible she was for not doing all the things he wanted her to do. Then he would thank her for the things she did. He'd abused substance for so long that, it permanently damaged his brain. In prison he was forced to go without it, but 36 years later, he was just as messed up as when he was on the drugs and alcohol. It's my assessment that he literally destroyed the necessary brain cells that were necessary for him to be "normal" again.
The color and the painting represent purity and innocence. The house represents the house of one of the couples my brother killed. They lived in a rural setting on the side of a hill. He visited destruction on purity. It is basically the story about the impact of the murder on me...as well as my family. Red is my favorite color. For some reason it helps me find the energy to endure and overcome. So the woman is me being drawn into the affects of his hunting rifle and trying to swim through the air to get away from it. The gun looked like that one.
DavidG said
Jun 28, 2019
Wildflower...
I see a lot of horrible things happen in the world- and the prayer i mutter, is "There but for the grace of God go I"
It does give me a clearance and a boundary from what terrible things other people might do.
We always- with dread what might come out of the shadows, or shield ourselves in denial. Some of us gravitate to both extremes!
In my land a lone gunman slaughtered 51 people, this year and maimed many others. Living so far away from civilisation we thought ourselves immune from this!
In a face to face group- your share and your healing and recovery may have been too gruelling for some. But hey... ... we all have to move through these events in our lives.
The biggest gruelling thing in my world- was two suicides... but most of all losing five of my cousins to prostitution- a fate worse than death. The Shock and the shame. especially so because their dad was a navy veteran, and the family deserved much better than this- from the fates!
Living round drunk people, generally is tough. Impossible, in the end- and this what drives us towards Alanon...
...so glad and grateful I made this move... ...
WildFlower said
Jun 28, 2019
DavidG, we never thought my brother could do it either. One just never knows what will push someone over the top. Having lived through the murder situation I will say that in my opinion it is far worse than prostitution. Women sometimes go into the field because they can earn more money that way than in other jobs they might be able to get. When women start being paid equally for the work they do, a lot of them will stop being prostitutes. It's just sex for money. That's all it is. I once had a guy ask me if he could set me up into that with his rich friends. I was so broke, without enough to eat and miserably married to a guy who lost his temper a lot and spent three times more money than we made together, that I did consider it. But I didn't want to start hating men or myself, so I turned him down. The Bible says, "Judge not lest ye be judged." People are where they are and have to pull themselves out of their messes. Any God who would damn us for that is not worth knowing...at least not to me
On March 4, 1980 my older brother, the guy who dabbed mud on my bee sting to stop the pain when I was four-years-old, shot and killed four of his neighbors with his deer hunting rifle. His actions nearly destroyed my family. Rather than delve into it here, I am providing a link to an article I wrote about it and posted on my website. The names of have been changed in the article to protect the vulnerable. My brother abused alcohol and prescription drugs. I did not mention the alcohol in the article. I'm not sure why. I didn't know how bad his drinking or drug problem was until we cleaned out his house after the murders and found the bottles. This is my story.
http://www.whereartmeetstheheart.com/mybrother.shtml
-- Edited by WildFlower on Wednesday 26th of June 2019 09:46:40 PM
-- Edited by WildFlower on Wednesday 26th of June 2019 09:47:22 PM
-- Edited by Iamhere on Wednesday 26th of June 2019 09:48:50 PM
-- Edited by WildFlower on Wednesday 26th of June 2019 09:55:49 PM
Oh boy, Wildflower...
...that is a gruelling share...
... the worst I have over heard- maybe sits beside the sexual abuse- and it's impact!
but, hey! [Swallows a big lump in his throat...]... our ESH is what makes our groups- and our group meetings.
I will need ever turn my back on a share, with experience strength and hope... brave, courageous... utmost respect, Wildflower.
Thank you for the edit, Iamhere.
Thank you, DavidG. If you haven't had the chance, I invite you to read the article on my website. The whole mess tore my heart out. I had to build a new one from scratch.
I am not surprised! Oh Boy!
The courage to move on from that situation must have been stupendous!
We do end up re-inventing ourselves, slowly, over time... my friend...
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( wildflower )))))))))))))))))))))))
Thank you for sharing this painful experience . Sending prayers and positive thoughts your way.
i AM so HAPPY THAT YOU FOUND MIP
Thank you DavidG. Yes, moving on was very difficult. It destroyed my belief system. My husband at that time forbid me to tell his wealthy family about the murders. He turned away from me. He was ashamed of me. It took me six years to finally leave him. It took me that long to be together enough to do that. I had a huge extended family who were very religious, but they did not offer any comfort. Only my grand aunt Lottie did. She was 45 years older than me. I barely knew her when I was growing up. But I had moved to the area where she lived, and I reached out to her, several months after the killings, she was there. She came to the legal proceedings with me when she could. But she was in her 80s by then, and was not always well enough to go with me. It was a 150 mile trip. Yes, I had to reinvent myself. There was no other way that worked for me. Thanks for understanding. It's sometimes an ongoing process.
IamLynn, yes, it was heart-wrenching. It was worst for my parents. My brother's wife passed away way too young. I'm sure it was from the stress of it all. She had to raise two teenagers when she was devastated herself. She coped by overeating and that stressed all the systems in her body. She died in 2000. My dad died in 1983, my mom in 2009 at age 91. My brother, from prison, threatened to send one of his friends from prison when the guy got out, to the nursing home where Mom lived for the last three years of her life. I had to tell the nursing home administrator about it, so they could protect Mom, just in case my brother did that. He didn't want her there because it would spend away his part of the inheritance, and his kids wouldn't get anything. She actually liked it there, after telling me for years not to put her in one, but she was so very ill. And she fell in love with one of the other residents. They were cute together, and then he passed, like her second and third husband. Dad was number one. My sister had a bad heart and died of breast cancer in 2005 because they could not give her the treatment she needed - it would have further damaged her heart. She was a worrier, and she and her husband fought about my brother. Aunt Lottie died in 2000 at the age of 97. All the older family is gone now. The ones suffering the worst effects now are my brother's two children. They are now 50 and 54. They've never been okay. His son became paranoid and pulled away from the family, and his daughter became an alcoholic and pulled away. I tried to help them, but it did not work.
Thank you hotrod, and for making me feel welcome. One of the friends I made a few months after the murders was the professor in my master's program. He said, "You belong to a select fraternity whose members never meet, the families of murderers."
Yes, I decided to try to make a difference in the world. While before the murders I had planned to become a counselor, afterward I did not have the energy for it. I had to heal myself. I became a writer. I started writing the story of what it's like in 1981. It took until 1993 to have it accepted by a publisher. Then the publisher butchered it. I was devastated by what she did to it. My literary agent said that no one wanted to read that much religion. But religion was woven into my brother's story and our lives. Anyway, years later I rewrote it and this time published it myself through Smashwords. It's an ebook. And it's free. Although on my website it says it can be purchased, I decided to make it free. I've written twelve books. At the moment those that are still in print are free also. The murder story will remain free. I'm not sure about the rest.
The world is spiraling quickly into a mess, and I want to help. Since I decided to not go the traditional publishing route again because they can destroy the author's original message, I decided to do it myself with all of them. I write visionary fiction. Some call it magical realism. I have reality mixed in with the fiction. When I need to work something through I write a book about it.
I plan to upload a picture of my brother, one taken four years before he died. I just found it online a couple of weeks ago. He looks so lost. And one of him when he was a kid. If I can manage to do it. I'll do it as a separate attachment, since right now I have to locate the most recent picture of him.
Thanks for the welcome, everyone.
Thank you Lyne for your support and your kindness.
-- Edited by WildFlower on Thursday 27th of June 2019 10:38:52 AM
Here is the picture of my family when I was a baby. My brother was ten at the time. The next picture is of him when he was 74, 4 years before he died.
Truthfully the glue that held my family together were my parents and now I have drifted away from my childhood family with only having my sister to connect with. That's one out of 5 brothers and one sister. My dad left a letter to be read to all of us after they both passed and it was their final wish that we stay as a family and never lose contact with each other. I'm afraid that speaking for myself I have not honored their wishes. Sometimes even my relationship with my sister is hard. She too suffers from alcohol abuse and often goes to bed with one too many glasses of wine and those prescription pill you alluded to. My mother in later life could not bear to look at photographs of her son my brother the youngest in our family. She clammed up and withdrew within herself I think as a defense against being a parent having to face the fact that her child was deeply troubled and no matter what she did might not recover. The rest of the family closed ranks around her because she could not say no to him as he began to try and use her as a flop house or a way to get a few dollars. It's almost as if I have to completely divide my thoughts of my brother as a child and my brother now as if they are two separate people one who was bright and alive to one who became a shadow of himself. I also call him a lost soul and I'm not sure how he is today. Your analogy of your brother who tended to your bee stings brought that to my mind.
It's easier for me not to think about him because then I would want to know how he is or ask after him and it just dredges up all the emotions that I choose to suppress. I stopped wanting to reach out to someone who didn't want to reach back. Al Anon for me is a way to release myself from the hopelessness and helplessness that fills up my mind. It is my son in trouble due to alcohol abuse who has been my catalyst for seeking an answer for myself and Al anon is there to help me and it seems millions of others deal with how we deal with all the tragedies that substance abuse particularly alcohol plays in these tragic stories.
The photographs of your family and later you brother reminded me of the last time I saw him which was at my mom's funeral. His face had taken on a look I can't explain as if he was a reflection of the alcohol no longer him. I dread the idea that this disease runs through my family but I have to acknowledge it or I can't help myself let alone my children. I'm grateful that my mom was a story teller and didn't gloss over her life or my father's. It's a way I connect with them both and can understand them a little better knowing the heavy baggage they had to carry from their past before we were born. Life here can be hard I think and it's so good that there are groups like al anon non judgemental welcoming understanding and connected with all the other groups of people just trying to make life better for themselves and others.
Sorry this is a long comment. Once again I'll say I'm glad you shared your story. Thank you.
IamLynn, thanks for sharing your story. I don't mind it being long. It's heart-wrenching that so many people drift into taking substance and that it destroys them and the ones the care about. How old is your brother? It's really sad when a person has to protect themselves from those they care about. Your momma sounds like mine. Mom said to never give up on him. I do understand why your sister-in-law fooled around on him. Sometimes it's the only release one has. A person doesn't necessarily start out to do that. It can just happen, when you are in such bad shape that you feel like you are drowning. One of the titles I had for my book about him was Trying Not To Drown. I've attached the cover art I did for it. This is how I felt. I was drowning.
Do you have any support now other than here at Al-Anon? You said you almost have to divide your thoughts about him. I had to learn to do that too. As a woman I had to learn compartmentalization to survive. Otherwise, what was awful in one part of my life, messed up everything else. It's taken a long time to learn. Men do it more automatically. Women tend to spaghettify everything, tangles of spaghetti from one thing reach over into everything else.
If you need to talk about your brother feel free to send me a private message. My brother is gone, so I'm better able to settle it all now. Your brother is still alive, and an ongoing issue. I'm willing to listen.
-- Edited by WildFlower on Thursday 27th of June 2019 02:35:59 PM
Your painting is very thought provoking especially hearing your story. I like your use of color. I know a man who did the same thing you did, learned to paint from a televised program. His paintings were really good also and reminded me of the highwaymen paintings. Thank you for the offer of a talk. Some of my good memories with my mom were sitting around the kitchen table and having a Coffee Klatch. She came from a Irish Family and was a good storyteller.
IamLynn, thank you for sharing more with me about your mom and your brother. It is interesting the way that the alcoholic does not think he/she is a problem. It's true that getting too involved in the user's life can be so destructive. I understand you wanting to protect your mom. I wanted to protect mine too, but I couldn't. She would allow him to call her from prison, and often he would tell her how horrible she was for not doing all the things he wanted her to do. Then he would thank her for the things she did. He'd abused substance for so long that, it permanently damaged his brain. In prison he was forced to go without it, but 36 years later, he was just as messed up as when he was on the drugs and alcohol. It's my assessment that he literally destroyed the necessary brain cells that were necessary for him to be "normal" again.
The color and the painting represent purity and innocence. The house represents the house of one of the couples my brother killed. They lived in a rural setting on the side of a hill. He visited destruction on purity. It is basically the story about the impact of the murder on me...as well as my family. Red is my favorite color. For some reason it helps me find the energy to endure and overcome. So the woman is me being drawn into the affects of his hunting rifle and trying to swim through the air to get away from it. The gun looked like that one.
Wildflower...
I see a lot of horrible things happen in the world- and the prayer i mutter, is "There but for the grace of God go I"
It does give me a clearance and a boundary from what terrible things other people might do.
We always- with dread what might come out of the shadows, or shield ourselves in denial. Some of us gravitate to both extremes!
In my land a lone gunman slaughtered 51 people, this year and maimed many others. Living so far away from civilisation we thought ourselves immune from this!
In a face to face group- your share and your healing and recovery may have been too gruelling for some. But hey... ... we all have to move through these events in our lives.
The biggest gruelling thing in my world- was two suicides... but most of all losing five of my cousins to prostitution- a fate worse than death. The Shock and the shame. especially so because their dad was a navy veteran, and the family deserved much better than this- from the fates!
Living round drunk people, generally is tough. Impossible, in the end- and this what drives us towards Alanon...
...so glad and grateful I made this move...
...
DavidG, we never thought my brother could do it either. One just never knows what will push someone over the top. Having lived through the murder situation I will say that in my opinion it is far worse than prostitution. Women sometimes go into the field because they can earn more money that way than in other jobs they might be able to get. When women start being paid equally for the work they do, a lot of them will stop being prostitutes. It's just sex for money. That's all it is. I once had a guy ask me if he could set me up into that with his rich friends. I was so broke, without enough to eat and miserably married to a guy who lost his temper a lot and spent three times more money than we made together, that I did consider it. But I didn't want to start hating men or myself, so I turned him down. The Bible says, "Judge not lest ye be judged." People are where they are and have to pull themselves out of their messes. Any God who would damn us for that is not worth knowing...at least not to me