I started the day meeting AH at marriage therapy. Though things had been going okay (seemed to want to do better and some sobriety) he spiraled back to a point where hes out of the house for just over a week on a bender. Im grateful he respects my boundaries by staying away but still sucks alcoholism is out of control. He showed up to therapy drunk after driving himself here. I knew it was pointless to be talking with him drunk but I sat there still. The therapist was really just trying to get info out of AH about what happened to make him drink. I knew when AH was complaining about being married, which he doesnt do sober, it was time to go. I excused myself to the restroom to get out of the room. When I came back he was still going on about how if hes sober I get everything I want and it is one sided and there must be more to life. I suggested we stop but therapist asked me to hold on. Then AH started getting loud and slamming his hand into his fist as his temper climbed. I grabbed my bag and said to our therapist I was leaving because I do not engage with AH in conversations when AH has been drinking. Therapist asked me to please stay. I knew I shouldve walked out the door. That was my mistake. Why did my fear of showing disrespect to the therapist stop me from doing what I needed to do? Was I secretly trying to be in on some unspoken winning chess move to not fly off the handle and storm out as AH had in the past? Clearly a poor move. AH challenged my leaving because I couldnt hear the truth of how terrible our marriage really is and how the 1 year he managed to stay sober (5 years ago) was a terrible year not because it was hard to stay sober but because he hates being married to me. I took the bait and shouted I was leaving because I wont be intimidated and threatened by him (hand slamming) anymore. I then left. Why did I not just leave as soon as I knew I should? Im so proud of how I hold my boundaries, lovingly detach and enjoy my life with my sweet daughter and fur babies when he goes back to the well. How could I let a therapist request be the reason I chose to fall from where I worked so hard to get? I had wondered several times in the past how much experience our therapist had with addiction after he made suggestions how AH could try to control his drinking and how I could maybe get my young daughter to participate in encouraging his on again off again by the day sobriety. I am disappointed in myself because I didnt trust my instincts and I let myself engage in his foolishness. I feel deflated when I feel I get a handle on how to care for myself only to realize I am still vulnerable to this garbage. I guess after all of this time I am a still a work in progress. I can just learn from this and listen to myself next time. I feel better when I realize I dont have to be perfect but still hate when I make stupid moves like asking someones permission (3 times!!!!) to get myself out of a bad situation...not to mention sitting past the point of feeling unsafe. HP please help me to make a better choice next time. Glad you are all here to share this with and work through it with. (((Hugs)))

Wrong therapist. You did good. Shaking my head at the incompetence of the so called professional. Sending healing thoughts.

Sunmustshine- first off, big hugs to you for dealing with such an inappropriate session with much grace. I wouldve been a crying, blubbering mess. As for the therapist? Fire them! Ive never heard anything so ridiculous that a therapist would actually entertain and feed right into the alcoholics insanity? Very unprofessional. That session did more damage than anything- leaving you questioning your actions, and indulging the alcoholic when by tomorrow he wont likely remember most of it. I would demand my money back. Hugs to you again- and remember one day at a time...

(((Hugs))) Thank you so much for being here. I know I shouldnt need the confirmation of what I already know by now, but I do. That really rattled me. I think you are right, the time has come to end it with this therapist. I was thinking since I left without scheduling a follow up, I just wouldnt call back. Blessed to have you all.

You did good. Im just rereading your post and Im completely flabbergasted at this so-called therapist suggesting to get your young daughter involved as part of some scheme to get your spouse sober? That is awful! Such expectation to be put on a small child? Where on earth did this person get a licence to be a therapist? Any therapist knows that in order to deal with marriage counselling sessions - first and foremost if someone has their own issues/addictions, they need to be dealt with first. You absolutely cannot expect results from going to marriage counselling with an active alcoholic. Its pointless. You are lucky in that he respects your boundaries and stays away so you and your daughter and pets can live happily and without drama because of his drinking.

Alcoholism is called baffling and cunning. Doesn't matter how many years you spend at university or studying it. Its bigger than even the very best professiinals anywhere in the world. You can read the history of aa and hear about a founding member having access to the best minds in the world and the wisest of them all eventually saying they couldn't help. The only help I found came free of charge from alanon members at meetings.

I once had a therapist force me to sit in a room with a man who abused me from childhood to adulthood and listen to him physically threaten me and call me names. This was court mandated. I recall my instant shock at the violation of it all, and slipping into survival mode knocking on a neighborimg office door on pretense of needing water to get away from the danger. All perspectives aside, as consumers of a service, there is a right to expect a standard of treatment that upholds ones safety and dignity. In alanon and with a good addiction therapist I learned to uphold my self worth by insisting that those standards in professional settings be met. I agree with other posts suggesting an end to this therapists so called service. You don't need a university degree to work out that someone showing up to counselling drunk has no respect for the process or the other parties to the process. It doesn't sound like the therapist has very good personal boundaries to ignore that. On the plus side all your alanon work means you have begun to develop healthy boundaries, recognising when there is an attempt to violate them. Keep on with your development sunmustshine, I can say with hindsight the outside world is the real test of program and again, you did well. Keep coming back.

(((sunmustshine))) - I read you post, and see so much progress in your recovery. I see that you embraced the tools available, you used your boundaries, you detached and you did all this with grace and dignity. Jerry has often said, "Reread your post as if it was written by another...." - I see many successes!!!

It took me a long time in recovery to be able to see what's improved, what worked well, etc. instead of what is wrong or broken. The disease, especially when active, is cunning, baffling, powerful and progressive. We really struggled to find a good therapist that understood the disease and how it affects the family. We looked for so long that we 'settled' and yet it still wasn't successful as change only happens when one is willing, open, honest to embrace it. I was the only one in our family that felt enough pain at the point of counseling to be willing so it was not a good use of our time.

Keep doing you, keep embracing recovery and trust your progress! You done really well in my view! Keep coming back!

Thanks for your share.

Unfortunately, a lot of therapists don't fully understand how the disease of addiction works. It kind of surprises me, actually, as I feel that probably the majority of their patients are actually people who come in affected by the disease in one way or another - either they're addicts themselves (and might not even know it) or they're like us - people who are deeply affected by the disease of addiction in a friend, loved one, employer or other acquaintance.

That said, I like to try and look at every situation as an opportunity for learning and growth. I don't think you were damaged at all by the session, to be honest. It sounds like it helped you get some more clarity around where your boundaries lie, and it took you to a place of asking yourself why you felt like you needed to do as the therapist requested.

God brings people into our lives to teach us about ourselves. Your alcoholic and the therapist helped you see some things more clearly, even if their behavior just seemed utterly ridiculous.

I found going to couples counseling with the alcoholic to be pretty useless insofar as trying to find mutual respect for one-another. It is impossible so long as the addict/alcoholic keeps using/drinking. They use such couples sessions as opportunities to continue to lay blame and deflect from their drinking.

Where the couples counseling DID help me was to see that this guy was just so very wrong for me and helped me understand from another perspective that he wasn't going to change and that if I wanted my life to improve, I was going to have to make some changes myself.

I did individual counseling with the same counselor who worked with both of us and I found that aspect to be quite helpful. She was someone who works with addiction, too, so she knew, as well, that couples counseling wouldn't really accomplish much and knew we had to work on our issues individually before we could show up for each other.

I'm glad you've got some new knowings about yourself through the situation. And congratulations for standing up for yourself, too. I'm glad you did what you felt was necessary to protect yourself in the end.

I am sure I have read on this board more than once that going into marriage counselling with an active alcoholic is an exercise in futility, at best.

That you were further abused was regrettable. That is the usual outcome, as I understand.

Blessings,
Temple

I read your post and then todays reading in Courage to Change. "When we take step one, we admit we are powerless over this disease. We do not have the strength to fight it. Defending ourselves by engaging in arguments with actively drinking or otherwise irrational people is as fruitless as donating armor to protect ourselves from nuclear explosion. Only a power greater than ourselves can restore us to sanity."

Oof .. I am sooo sorry for your experience with the counselor. First off a counselor should never ever ever put your in harms way. Second off that counselor is not someone who understands addiction and how it works. Talking to an intoxicated person was the first no no .. you AH showed up drunk he should have no been allowed in the therapy room. If you continue with counseling .. I would encourage you to find someone with a back ground in addiction. You may find you go alone. It's about building better boundaries and a counselor who allows someone in their office to display that kind of aggression knowing they are sending someone home with that person is not a good counselor or a safe one.

Second off .. deflection from the actual issue .. you know why an alcoholic drinks? Because it's sunny, it's not sunny, they are happy, or sad, or mad or whatever ... the 3 C's completely apply .. this is so not about you. What IS about you is the whole issue of you getting healthy and finding out what your limits are. The reason an A drinks is because they are addicts. That's literally the bottom line. They will blame everyone and everything around them .. they drink because it's what active alcoholics do. End of story.

Third .. and I'm still working on this one .. it's ok to say no. Period. No. It's very difficult to say no when the people in your life haven't heard you say no. This is very true for me. I am dealing with family matters regarding this at the moment. There is NEVER a reason for someone to feel unsafe and everyone has the right to say no and feel safe saying no. Sometimes enough is enough.

Please keep taking care of you and if you choose to call back the therapist .. honestly I would let them know why you aren't coming back. That was completely a violation of do no harm and that person has no idea if they could have put you at risk.

Part of taking care of me not putting myself in unsafe situations .. one of them being getting in a vehicle that the person behind the wheel is drunk. We have uber here and I'm not afraid to use it .. lol. Making sure I feel safe in having a discussion. Realizing too that people mean well .. they don't have to live with the consequences good or bad of my choices .. so it's up to me and I am in the drivers seat when it comes to that.

I had one incident with my now XAH where boy .. LOL .. we happened to be in a court ordered counselor's office and this guy was good and thankfully I had enough alanon and I was driving since my XAH couldn't .. boy was he pissed .. and I don't mean a little. This guy knew his stuff and made sure I was ok. He pushed as far as I allowed and I was ok with it because I knew I was driving home. My X was soooo angry and the counselor called him out regarding his drinking and told him .. so you drink because you are married to S .. and he confronted him while my X did a huge dance. I stayed out of it and my X did everything he could to drag me in and I said this is your session I am only here to support you.

I wonder had we had multiple sessions with this guy where my X might have gotten to .. I know he couldn't handle what was being said and he def couldn't handle being held accountable.

His drinking had zero to do with me and everything to do with him. I will not accept responsibility for his choice/obsession about drinking .. not that I was perfect .. that was on him.

Big hugs .. keep coming back and find a different counselor .. my opinion is I wouldn't go back and I would let that counselor know calmly that they put me in harms way by not allowing me to leave.

S :)

Hi there,
Sounds like you handled this the best that you could and in my opinion you had a reasonable reaction to an unreasonable situation. I tried marriage counselling with my AH and I ended up stopping. In my case my AH was sober when we went to the appointments and it still seemed futile. His drinking was the main problem.....for me. He wasn't willing to change that behaviour. He was happy to talk the talk but didn't like the follow up. Instead I utilized the limited benefits for counselling through my work program for individual counselling for me to help me figure out what I was going to do. That is how I found Al Anon and I am grateful every day for the counsellor who directed me to this program. Keep taking care of you. I don't see it as a set back. We aren't perfect and it sounds like the outburst helped remind you of the importance of sticking to your boundaries and listening to your instincts.
Hugs!
KT