This is my first post on this board. I attend ACOA meetings in my community, but my schedule has been crunchy lately and I've missed several. I have panic disorder and have lived with it since my early 20s. I was well for a long time - even my doctor said I no longer met the criteria for panic disorder anymore. Then my brother's life fell apart. We grew up hellishly - I was the one who acted out our trauma through bad choices, and he was the one who joined the military and went to college and started a family, became a pillar of the community. But of course he was hiding his trauma, and it came out suddenly and spectacularly two years ago. The last two years have been an emotional rollercoaster as he went from psychiatric hospitals to homeless shelter and finally to prison, where he is now. Being the child of an alcoholic, I have fuzzy boundaries and have been emotionally handcuffed to his experience. So, my panic disorder came back. I was finally doing better again, was making plans, I had hope. But if I am being honest, I spend a lot of time sleeping. Like, 12 hours a day. It's an escape. Anyway.
On Thursday, my dog died. He was disabled and high-needs and he died in his sleep. I am the one who found him, and cared for his body. My family is devastated, so I am already handicapped by this. Then two days ago my husband used his hands to turn my son around to look at him. It wasn't violent or anything, but I had a severe PTSD reaction to the whole thing. It was Fear Of Abandonment vs. Protect The Child Because I Couldn't Protect My Brother. I COMPLETELY fell apart. Like never before. It wasn't a panic attack. It was different - I was like out of my body, howling, gibberish, unable to calm down for at least an hour. My dear husband patiently held me through it. But ever since, I have felt unmoored, unsteady, unsafe! I'm currently traveling for work and I had another breakdown last night, alone in my hotel room. Similar, only with anxiety attached, and some serious hopelessness. I am having flashbacks to my dead dog and to panic and to helplessness and I can't seem to reach my Higher Power because I don't really know what she looks like. I am still new to all of this and I have so little trust. I feel like I am at the top of a roller coaster drop. I know I'm about to fall, but I am strapped in. I can't stop it. I am trying to control my thinking, which becomes more impossible the harder you try. I google how to turn off emotions. I am terrified of my 10-year-old seeing me like this. I can't seem to keep food down. I just don't know what to do, and I am suffering so much.
Has anyone else been here? How did you come out of it?
Thanks for reading.
Bo said
Apr 9, 2019
See below on one method/exercise regarding panic attacks...
Here is an exercise I teach people in several of the courses, training, seminars, etc., that I lead/teach...
Breathe deeply...in through your nose and out through your mouth.
Slowly look around you, focus, and find...
5 things you can see, identify them by name, and say each, one by one out loud.
4 things you can touch, and touch them
3 things you can hear, and listen to them
2 things you can smell, or smells you like, and smell them
1 emotion you can feel, identify it, say what it is out loud, and just feel it.
This is a technique called Grounding. It can help you when you feel like you've lost control of your thoughts, thought process, surroundings, etc.
reaching out further for help- is a good first step...
I am with Bo about the breathing- good first aid!
I have bin there, myself... it is horrific... but given time and a sense of hope- it will pass... ...
frostbliss said
Apr 9, 2019
Thank you, I will try it. It's good to have a script to follow, because when I get that way, I can't focus on a big concept like "mindfulness".
frostbliss said
Apr 9, 2019
Thanks, David. My logical brain knows this is temporary - I've gotten through it before and I will again - but my lizard brain is still firing all its guns.
So I google amygdala removal :D
DavidG said
Apr 9, 2019
I know when I am going down... I self-sabotage- and will lose car keys, credit card, or cell-phone. Sure sign that panic has set in.
I actually wrote about the amygdala... ... reaching out is a good antidote- for the above... and a really good start...
...In my world I missed conversations- just so much... inside of a meeting like this one we can all talk together- until the cows come home!
FINDING THE AMYGDALA
Where do we find the amygdala, someone would wonder? Would we find it under the heart, or between the shoulder blades?
Or somewhere amongst the hemispheres hidden from view? Such are the mysteries of worlds sometimes- of meaning, at least-
filthy, in the manner of a summer storm over somebodys wedding, or a night spent roving an empty street in search of nothing at all.
Bunkum! A fool can see such peregrinations would dissolve any ill- and push forwards any future, or simple hope, beyond the hill.
Who suffers? Why butter bread backwards and forwards, why toast? When, after all, there is no attempt at elucidation in effect, or hope.
Revolving, and tumbling, and revving up witnesses, for retribution stupid, and belittling at the very best, a gesture in jest, a conundrum-
winnowing in the wind, a sound, a song of confabulated witness, to wit- a fool; a paradise to be ensconced in; and a rubber ducky for plaything.
Iamhere said
Apr 9, 2019
Welcome to MIP frostbliss - glad you found us and glad that you reached out. I know for me when I reach a 'breaking point', I am served well by reaching out to another in recovery. If you are travelling, esp. for work, that can be hard to find time for but most areas have a central office that can put you in touch with another in recovery. Being able to talk it all through with another (that is not me) seems to help me reconnect with my HP.
I find distracting comfort in breathing, Christian music, spiritual readings as well as our literature as my Plan B. Of course, a meeting will always put you in touch with others in recovery and if you can't find ACoA where you are, I know the open arms of Al-Anon will love you, comfort and listen without advice, judgment, etc.
Keep coming back here too - you are not alone! I am so, so sorry to hear about your brother, dog and then the 'incident'...Sometimes life throws us curve balls and I do hear you fully aware that you can and will get to the other side! Sending huge (((Hugs))) your way!
frostbliss said
Apr 9, 2019
David, youre very talented. I appreciate you sharing your work.
frostbliss said
Apr 9, 2019
Thanks Iamhere. Im home now. Im still miserable. I feel like I did when I first relapsed. Like Ive got another two years ahead of me before I feel strong again. I hope thats not true.
a4l said
Apr 10, 2019
Hi. I can relate to this. Anxiety is something I live with but have learned to manage. It still flares. When I'm anxious, I don't eat. This sounds really basic but for me anyway its at least 50 percent of an anxiety cycle. Not eating feeds anxiety feeds not eating and repeat. Soup is your friend when you can't get anything else in. Someone here gave me eggdrop soup as a suggestion; it takes ten minutes and can be made with as little as three ingredients: stock, soy sauce, egg. Another thing I tended to do was walk around the house quite oblivious to what it is I'm actually doing. My mind just is racing racing racing and my body may well be trying to follow. I'm so sorry you're experiencing this: I know how awful and also how real it all seems. Managing anxiety for me started with accepting this is a part of my life, becoming aware of myself and my tendencies to neglect basics in anxiety mode and then acting by prioritising self care starting with eating.I also breathe deeply and check to see throughout the day that I am not breathing shallow breaths only. I recently had a mild anxiety flare and posted it here and got so many beautiful suggestions from our members including the grounding one above. Working out the root causes and beliefs is a longer journey, but at the onset/midst of an anxiety cycle for me, the first thing I must do is feed myself food, even if its just soup to bring back an appetite. Sending lots of loving vibes.
frostbliss said
Apr 10, 2019
a4l wrote:
Hi. I can relate to this. Anxiety is something I live with but have learned to manage. It still flares. When I'm anxious, I don't eat.
(((a4l))) I am the same! I can't eat either! I've been stirring a spoonful of protein powder into a cup of soymilk and drinking that when I'm really thirsty, Also, taking my vitamins. I pace, too, if it's really bad. My stomach wrecks itself during times like this, and I lie on a hot pad constantly to get it to relax. I sleep a lot - the longer I can feel normal, the more likely I will stay feeling normal, and sleeping subtracts hours that I have to fight the beast.
Last night I made a huge mistake. I called my mother. I just wanted my mom! Our family alcoholic is dead; been gone since 2002. But still, the rules apply, I guess - don't talk about the family disease!!! I brought my agony to my mom because I wanted her reassurance. I knew this would happen, but I wanted to try just in case I was making assumptions. But I was right - she said "I don't know what to say, I can't help you, I caused this, this is all my fault, I ruined your life, blah blah" and I had to fight not to reassure her because I had called HER for reassurance. I guess I should have known better, but I didn't want to assume. Dumb.
a4l said
Apr 10, 2019
Sounds like survival mode. Fight or flight. Flight through sleep was a response of mine too, or waking up and not wanting to get out of bed. There have honest to God been times when everything including taking a child to school have been cancelled because of anxiety, of a not conscious but none the less powerfully convincing fear of people. Don't get me wrong, I'm a wonderful talker. But that's just the outside. Inside I still have this fear of what people think, this beleif that im negatively different and everyone sees it. It takes a long time to change that script and In all honesty there are times still when avoidance seems like such a good idea. But I've challenged it and learned that it is in fact the very worst idea for my anxiety because it just exacerbates it. I'll deal with it later, meanwhile the lack of action increases the anxiety. Doing the next right thing and "taking the action, letting go of the results" are both meaningful strategies I learned here. They work. I will shower, I will dress, I will get out the door, I will do xyz. In your case with your brother there's a huge amount of powerlessness, which always but always leads us to step one. Key word in that step being accepted. This doesn't mean we give up entirely but rather seek the counsel offered in the serenity prayer which is accepting what we can't change and changing what we can. We have no power over our loved ones, we do have it over ourselves. You and I and each of us have the right to a better day today. Self care is so important. How are you going to show yourself love and care today?
frostbliss said
Apr 10, 2019
a4l wrote:
Sounds like survival mode. Fight or flight. Flight through sleep was a response of mine too, or waking up and not wanting to get out of bed. There have honest to God been times when everything including taking a child to school have been cancelled because of anxiety, of a not conscious but none the less powerfully convincing fear of people. Don't get me wrong, I'm a wonderful talker. But that's just the outside. Inside I still have this fear of what people think, this beleif that im negatively different and everyone sees it. It takes a long time to change that script and In all honesty there are times still when avoidance seems like such a good idea. But I've challenged it and learned that it is in fact the very worst idea for my anxiety because it just exacerbates it. I'll deal with it later, meanwhile the lack of action increases the anxiety. Doing the next right thing and "taking the action, letting go of the results" are both meaningful strategies I learned here. They work. I will shower, I will dress, I will get out the door, I will do xyz. In your case with your brother there's a huge amount of powerlessness, which always but always leads us to step one. Key word in that step being accepted. This doesn't mean we give up entirely but rather seek the counsel offered in the serenity prayer which is accepting what we can't change and changing what we can. We have no power over our loved ones, we do have it over ourselves. You and I and each of us have the right to a better day today. Self care is so important. How are you going to show yourself love and care today?
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your post. Flight through sleep is my default right now. The house is a mess - go to bed because I can't face cleaning it. The garden needs cleaning up - go to bed, I can't do all that. I too have had times where I asked my husband to take my child to school so I wouldn't have to get out of bed. I did it today, though, so that's an accomplishment, I suppose. I need help interpreting the steps like you just did. Absolutely, I am powerless over my brother's situation. I'm powerless over my mother's response to my grief and anxiety. Things I can do today: try to eat. Go take my son to his therapy appointment. Shower. Forgive myself for the mess. Go to the ACA meeting tonight. Maybe these things will help me step out of survival mode.
Iamhere said
Apr 11, 2019
(((frostbliss))) - I don't know if this will help or not so take what you like, and leave the rest!!! For me, when I look around and the task list is overwhelming and way too long, I try to break it down into manageable chunks. I grew up with a anal retentive mother who kept a 'perfect house' and did a variety of tasks weekly like clockwork. That's what I 'knew' so that's the expectation I put on me...
Today, instead I accept and am satisfied with dusting one day, vacuuming another day, laundry as needed, etc. I try to put 5 small things on a list and do them - often this can motivate me to do one/two/more things - but just a starting point with simple things is helpful for me.
Someone once said to me that 'chores will always wait for you - there's no need to stress'. I hope you got to your meeting and what a great start - you had 4 things that I see.
Keep coming back - you are not alone!!
ophelia said
Apr 11, 2019
Hi Frostbliss,
I can relate to a lot of what you had to say about your childhood. I also have been treated for PTSD since my early 20s. What helped me the most was a type of therapy called EMDR. I highly recommend it ... it helps you reprocess the memories so they don't trigger a panic reaction. I had immediate relief after my first few sessions and once I've reprocessed something, it doesn't bother me again. Granted, unearthing all the memories is a little like Whack-a-Mole. It seems like I'm constantly discovering more, but as I do, the EMDR takes care of it.
Big hugs to you ... hang in there! You're not alone.
Bo said
Apr 12, 2019
Excellent posts...thank you everyone!
Sometimes "will" and fortitude and desire...and more...becomes part of it.
We get knocked down. It hurts. It's not easy. It's hard. It it painful.
But it's not about getting knocked down...it's about GETTING UP.
DavidG said
Apr 12, 2019
Oh yes, Bo...!
I was taught, in Alanon- we can offer opinions but not advice.
I think we all love being asked for an opinion... for input. Reaching out to an incoming member is good all round. Without active members there is no group.
I appreciate the lead you took, Bo, with Frostbliss's issue. Right on the mark. In the present. Appropriate. ...
frostbliss said
Apr 15, 2019
ophelia wrote:
What helped me the most was a type of therapy called EMDR. I highly recommend it ...
Ophelia, I am receiving EMDR at my therapist. It does seem to help, but those memories are SO hard to stay in for the duration of the therapy. There are pieces that I just can't seem to face. I'm so glad it helped you. I'm going to keep going.
ophelia said
Apr 16, 2019
frostbliss wrote:
ophelia wrote:
What helped me the most was a type of therapy called EMDR. I highly recommend it ...
Ophelia, I am receiving EMDR at my therapist. It does seem to help, but those memories are SO hard to stay in for the duration of the therapy. There are pieces that I just can't seem to face. I'm so glad it helped you. I'm going to keep going.
Wow, I know exactly what you mean. It's really hard and I'd much prefer not thinking about all that stuff. I usually feel out of it for a few days after too, but in the end it's been so worth it. I'm glad you're reaching out for help, here and with your therapist. It does get better!
Hi all,
This is my first post on this board. I attend ACOA meetings in my community, but my schedule has been crunchy lately and I've missed several. I have panic disorder and have lived with it since my early 20s. I was well for a long time - even my doctor said I no longer met the criteria for panic disorder anymore. Then my brother's life fell apart. We grew up hellishly - I was the one who acted out our trauma through bad choices, and he was the one who joined the military and went to college and started a family, became a pillar of the community. But of course he was hiding his trauma, and it came out suddenly and spectacularly two years ago. The last two years have been an emotional rollercoaster as he went from psychiatric hospitals to homeless shelter and finally to prison, where he is now. Being the child of an alcoholic, I have fuzzy boundaries and have been emotionally handcuffed to his experience. So, my panic disorder came back. I was finally doing better again, was making plans, I had hope. But if I am being honest, I spend a lot of time sleeping. Like, 12 hours a day. It's an escape. Anyway.
On Thursday, my dog died. He was disabled and high-needs and he died in his sleep. I am the one who found him, and cared for his body. My family is devastated, so I am already handicapped by this. Then two days ago my husband used his hands to turn my son around to look at him. It wasn't violent or anything, but I had a severe PTSD reaction to the whole thing. It was Fear Of Abandonment vs. Protect The Child Because I Couldn't Protect My Brother. I COMPLETELY fell apart. Like never before. It wasn't a panic attack. It was different - I was like out of my body, howling, gibberish, unable to calm down for at least an hour. My dear husband patiently held me through it. But ever since, I have felt unmoored, unsteady, unsafe! I'm currently traveling for work and I had another breakdown last night, alone in my hotel room. Similar, only with anxiety attached, and some serious hopelessness. I am having flashbacks to my dead dog and to panic and to helplessness and I can't seem to reach my Higher Power because I don't really know what she looks like. I am still new to all of this and I have so little trust. I feel like I am at the top of a roller coaster drop. I know I'm about to fall, but I am strapped in. I can't stop it. I am trying to control my thinking, which becomes more impossible the harder you try. I google how to turn off emotions. I am terrified of my 10-year-old seeing me like this. I can't seem to keep food down. I just don't know what to do, and I am suffering so much.
Has anyone else been here? How did you come out of it?
Thanks for reading.
Here is an exercise I teach people in several of the courses, training, seminars, etc., that I lead/teach...
Breathe deeply...in through your nose and out through your mouth.
Slowly look around you, focus, and find...
5 things you can see, identify them by name, and say each, one by one out loud.
4 things you can touch, and touch them
3 things you can hear, and listen to them
2 things you can smell, or smells you like, and smell them
1 emotion you can feel, identify it, say what it is out loud, and just feel it.
This is a technique called Grounding. It can help you when you feel like you've lost control of your thoughts, thought process, surroundings, etc.
(((((((((((((((((((((( frostbliss ))))))))))))))))))
reaching out further for help- is a good first step...
I am with Bo about the breathing- good first aid!
I have bin there, myself... it is horrific... but given time and a sense of hope- it will pass...
...
Thank you, I will try it. It's good to have a script to follow, because when I get that way, I can't focus on a big concept like "mindfulness".
Thanks, David. My logical brain knows this is temporary - I've gotten through it before and I will again - but my lizard brain is still firing all its guns.
So I google amygdala removal :D
I know when I am going down... I self-sabotage- and will lose car keys, credit card, or cell-phone. Sure sign that panic has set in.
I actually wrote about the amygdala...
... reaching out is a good antidote- for the above... and a really good start...
...In my world I missed conversations- just so much... inside of a meeting like this one we can all talk together- until the cows come home!
FINDING THE AMYGDALA
Where do we find the amygdala, someone would wonder?
Would we find it under the heart, or between the shoulder blades?
Or somewhere amongst the hemispheres hidden from view?
Such are the mysteries of worlds sometimes- of meaning, at least-
filthy, in the manner of a summer storm over somebodys wedding,
or a night spent roving an empty street in search of nothing at all.
Bunkum! A fool can see such peregrinations would dissolve any ill-
and push forwards any future, or simple hope, beyond the hill.
Who suffers? Why butter bread backwards and forwards, why toast?
When, after all, there is no attempt at elucidation in effect, or hope.
Revolving, and tumbling, and revving up witnesses, for retribution
stupid, and belittling at the very best, a gesture in jest, a conundrum-
winnowing in the wind, a sound, a song of confabulated witness, to wit-
a fool; a paradise to be ensconced in; and a rubber ducky for plaything.
I find distracting comfort in breathing, Christian music, spiritual readings as well as our literature as my Plan B. Of course, a meeting will always put you in touch with others in recovery and if you can't find ACoA where you are, I know the open arms of Al-Anon will love you, comfort and listen without advice, judgment, etc.
Keep coming back here too - you are not alone! I am so, so sorry to hear about your brother, dog and then the 'incident'...Sometimes life throws us curve balls and I do hear you fully aware that you can and will get to the other side! Sending huge (((Hugs))) your way!
David, youre very talented. I appreciate you sharing your work.
Thanks Iamhere. Im home now. Im still miserable. I feel like I did when I first relapsed. Like Ive got another two years ahead of me before I feel strong again. I hope thats not true.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your post. Flight through sleep is my default right now. The house is a mess - go to bed because I can't face cleaning it. The garden needs cleaning up - go to bed, I can't do all that. I too have had times where I asked my husband to take my child to school so I wouldn't have to get out of bed. I did it today, though, so that's an accomplishment, I suppose. I need help interpreting the steps like you just did. Absolutely, I am powerless over my brother's situation. I'm powerless over my mother's response to my grief and anxiety. Things I can do today: try to eat. Go take my son to his therapy appointment. Shower. Forgive myself for the mess. Go to the ACA meeting tonight. Maybe these things will help me step out of survival mode.
Today, instead I accept and am satisfied with dusting one day, vacuuming another day, laundry as needed, etc. I try to put 5 small things on a list and do them - often this can motivate me to do one/two/more things - but just a starting point with simple things is helpful for me.
Someone once said to me that 'chores will always wait for you - there's no need to stress'. I hope you got to your meeting and what a great start - you had 4 things that I see.
Keep coming back - you are not alone!!
I can relate to a lot of what you had to say about your childhood. I also have been treated for PTSD since my early 20s. What helped me the most was a type of therapy called EMDR. I highly recommend it ... it helps you reprocess the memories so they don't trigger a panic reaction. I had immediate relief after my first few sessions and once I've reprocessed something, it doesn't bother me again. Granted, unearthing all the memories is a little like Whack-a-Mole. It seems like I'm constantly discovering more, but as I do, the EMDR takes care of it.
Big hugs to you ... hang in there! You're not alone.
Sometimes "will" and fortitude and desire...and more...becomes part of it.
We get knocked down. It hurts. It's not easy. It's hard. It it painful.
But it's not about getting knocked down...it's about GETTING UP.
Oh yes, Bo...!
I was taught, in Alanon- we can offer opinions but not advice.
I think we all love being asked for an opinion... for input.
Reaching out to an incoming member is good all round. Without active members there is no group.
I appreciate the lead you took, Bo, with Frostbliss's issue. Right on the mark. In the present. Appropriate.
...
Ophelia, I am receiving EMDR at my therapist. It does seem to help, but those memories are SO hard to stay in for the duration of the therapy. There are pieces that I just can't seem to face. I'm so glad it helped you. I'm going to keep going.
Wow, I know exactly what you mean. It's really hard and I'd much prefer not thinking about all that stuff. I usually feel out of it for a few days after too, but in the end it's been so worth it. I'm glad you're reaching out for help, here and with your therapist. It does get better!