Hi there all, thank you for being here as a resource. I'm a returning member of about 3 weeks, though I went to a few meetings about 8 years ago when I was with my A partner. Apparently I wasn't in the place to really understand Alanon back then. Now we have been separated for 2 years, and I see that I am not getting any better, but I feel that Alanon is the answer and that maybe there is hope. Please forgive the length, but I am really struggling and could use any ideas or slogans or guidance.

I just feel completely lost, have learned so many terrible habits in those 12 years with him, and I don't know how to move forward. I feel totally lost and stuck, and like I wasted all my best years on this person while even now wishing he was still in my life. I learned enough Alanon those years back to KNOW that I need help, but without the clear presence of Alcohol in my life, or the Alcoholic, I don't know how to clearly see when I am messing up, losing my 'sobriety' so to speak. I wish I had something clear to be able tell when I am losing it, relapsing. Picking up a drink: nice and clear. But with trying to control situations, not knowing what to do with my feelings, feeling absolutely overwhelmed and panicked and hopeless, that kind of thing, it seems so hard to catch it in the moment and realize I 'relapsed' basically. Then it's like I've lost my program but haven't even realized it.

I want to work the steps really rigorously, I feel sure that's the answer, but it's hard to do on my own (because my thinking got me into this spot), and hard to hold onto the messages of the program and not get lost in my panic. I am trying to attend phone meetings every day, read literature every day, and go to my neighborhood meeting once a week. My local meeting is almost all newcomers, so an in-person sponsor is not in the cards. I also feel like I don't 'deserve' a sponsor because I am not partnered with an Alcoholic anymore. It's all so complicated. I am absolutely filled with regret, and can't shake the feeling that if I had stayed in Alanon and worked a good consistent program, maybe I wouldn't have lost my partner.

And now I am here working the program, but alone and feeling very lost and a bit doomed, even though I try hard to keep my faith in an HP present and close and think 'all in God's time' and turn it all over and imagine myself in God's hands. And to take Step 2 to heart when I am feeling my most panicked and overwhelmed with sadness and loss. I'm trying. Sorry for the length here. Any little nuggets of guidance would be so helpful. I'm trying to work so hard, but so much keeps coming up. Then I look at the Courage to Change reading today, which says maybe it can all be done with less intensity and seriousness, and I love that idea. But I feel so in the thick of it, even two years later. I hope I can find some lightness, but I also feel like I need to do it all myself and learn it all as quickly as possible, so I don't 'mess up' more and maybe have a chance to get better before even more years are lost to me. It's hard, and I know that my situation is nowhere near as bad as others. Any thoughts/ideas/approaches would be really welcome, thank you.

Welcome InHealinghands You are not alone. living with the disease of alcoholism effects each of us in a negative manner. As you are aware, Alanon is the recovery program for those of us who have lived with or live with the disease.
There is hope and help as recovery is possible. Meetings , the literature. the slogans and obtaining a sponsor were all tools I employed and continue to us in order to to grow and change . We have on line meeting here in the chat room to help encourage meetings. Face to face meetings do provide the personnel touch which encourages ongoing interactions.
Living one day at a time, focused on ourselves, trusting a Higher Power are important tools to embrace.

Please do keep coming back

ihh...welcome! And keep coming back (face to face alanon meetings!). Remember, meeting makers make it!

It's interesting how you portray that you've been separated for 2 years, however...you see that you are not getting any better. There is a reason for that. A very real, factual reason. So, why is that? You can leave the alcoholic, but you take yourself with you. You can leave the alcoholic, but you can't leave yourself. You can leave the alcoholic, but you go with you. And so on and so on and so on. Now, people who are also in AA may have a very different perspective, and that's a good thing, because alanon, is a very different approach, and comes from and approaches alcoholism and it's impact on us, in a very different way. Our recovery is ours. Their's is their's.

Yes, terrible habits become the norm. They become innate to us. The "norm" takes on some distorted, unhealthy, dysfunctional world that we never could have imagined. Yes, you are right, our thinking becomes distorted and we don't know how to move forward. Yes, we feel -- and we are -- lost! Stuck! Welcome to the club. You qualify as a member! LOL. Now, the "wasted all my best years on this person" and the "while even now wishing he was still in my life." -- that's simply part of your disease, your sickness, your being unhealthy. Go to 90 meetings in 90 days, find an excellent sponsor, and you'll get better. The wasting part of your thinking is anger, resentment, self-esteem, ego, self-criticism, and more. The real problem is the "wishing he was still in my life" -- BANG!!! There's the real disease. It could be co-dependence, unhealthy thinking, and a million other things. It can also be sadness, mourning, the loss, grieving, and human nature is to "want it back" as what's ahead is unknown. The devil we know...the devil we know...we think we know, but it's even more deadly than we ever could imagine.

So, you KNOW that you need help. PERIOD. Don't attach the disclaimers and all -- without the clear presence of alcohol, or an alcoholic, in your life, yes, you can absolutely learn, make change, grow, and clearly see where you are "messing up" -- and that's what we call RECOVERY. Progress, not perfection. Alanon works, if you work it...so work it...you are worth it!!!

As far your sobriety, our sobriety -- remember, when you go to face to face alanon meetings, that is exactly what they are -- ALANON. Unfortunately, this is not a conference approved, official alanon forum, so there is a lot of collapsing, combining, references, speaking to, speaking about, etc., alcoholics anonymous here in this forum. Personally, I come here for alanon, and nothing else. But that's just me. So, getting back to our and your sobriety. It is very, very, very different, than an alcoholic's sobriety. With an alcoholic...it's simple...either they drank or they didn't. Nothing to argue about,. nothing to debate, analyze, calculate, or think about. Either they drank or they didn't. Period. But what about us? What's my sobriety. My friend Frank, who is in AA, has been clean and sober, and living a life of recovery for 39 years. Me? I am living a life of recovery for 25 years (my time in alanon), but I am not clean and sober that whole time. My sobriety is not tied to alcohol or drugs. It is -- my thinking, my thoughts, my actions, who I am being, how I am living my life. Yesterday, I sent a text to someone, and it wasn't coming from a healthy place. It wasn't be thinking or being healthy. I wasn't doing what was best for me, what was healthy for me. It prompted a reply, and could have turned into a back and forth ping pong match which would have been even worse than the text I sent. So, that was me slipping! That was my slip. I wasn't sober. I had to get back on track, not proceed or move forward on that unhealthy path, down that unhealthy road. So, I quickly recovered, yes, the prompted, escalating text came back, which I expected -- so I had to regroup, re-think, and get back to the healthy, sober, recovery, way of being, thinking...and I did not engage and perpetuate what I unfortunately contributed to starting!

You are right -- it's clear, pick up a drink, and for us it's not. That's why -- and many people here disagree -- alanon is a program about us, we, our, etc. It's a program where face to face meetings, having a sponsor, working the steps, and more, are all designed to be part of the alanon program, with others. Debate for another time. You want objectivity, guidance, experience, suggestions, learning, wisdom...that's what a sponsor is for! Get one. Go once a week, go to telephone meetings, find a sponsor from there, ask someone to temporarily do the first step with you. Do the work and you will get better! You already have some excellent awareness, and you are on the right track.

I have to go into a meeting...so Part 2...soon to come! LOL.

Keep coming back.

Aloha InHealingHands I love the metaphor of that as it has also been mine since becoming a practicing member in the program.  There is lots to learn in recovery and it seems you have already learned the baffling and powerful nature of this disease which I learned is in part a compulsion of the mind which helped me understand the insane nature of it.

In reading your post I get the question are you also drinking and using?  Alcohol and drugs are mind and mood altering chemicals and the mental outcomes are insanity or as I learned,  a continuous and disorderly process of thought.  When I first heard that clearly I knew I was insane and had to give up attempting to use my own brain to figure out recovery.  I needed the tools of the program...meetings, literature, slogans, prayer practice and more.  It sounds like you are open and ready to continuously practice that.  Visualizing yourself in the embrace of your Higher Power is good strong practice.  Feeling the embrace is a step beyond and more will come with practice.  

If you are networking with others in recovery practicing listening with and open mind (no prejudices or defenses) will  help you to gain leverage over the random crazy thoughts that may be running around thru the hallways of your brain.  That was one of the proofs for me that I had lost all sanity and was in a never never land,  the insanity promised from the disease.  I am also alcoholic and a dual member of both programs.  I discovered with inventories that I was born and raised within our disease and had learned much that was passed on until I accepted recovery as a daily practice and condition.  

Coming here and reaching out for help is a major first step for your own recovery...Good on You for using the courage to do this and better for you to stick around daily.  When I first arrived in Al-Anon and in the early stages I use to follow members outside of the meetings, those I had listened to and had felt that they knew how the disease and recovery from it worked and I would stop them and ask, as you have, "can you please help me"?  I never got turned down and got my life back.   

You will not get turned down here and in the program either....we love miracles!!   

Please keep coming back.  If you are drinking and using find the experiences, strengths and hopes to keep clean and sober so you can hear what you need to hear and practice for your own peace of mind and serenity.   

(((((Hugs))))) 

So, now I'll speak to the rest of your original post -- which is so healthy, because you made it about YOU!!!

I am all for someone starting to work the steps ASAP, so, great for you! However, make sure if you are struggling, make sure you get that handled. Make sure you focus on being OK, just for the moment, so that you can work your steps and work your program with you being 100% focused on what you need to do. Step One will do that for you -- ACCEPTANCE -- and that's where you should start. When I did the steps the last time, I spent almost one year on acceptance...and, ready for the this...the rest of the steps were a breeze!!! Step two -- surrender -- took far less time that I may have initially thought, but my sponsor told me and determined when we were ready to move on to step three -- letting go. Now, you absolutely, positively, deserve a sponsor. It has nothing to do with the fact that you no longer have an active alcoholic in your life. It has to do with the fact that YOU are still suffering and struggling with the impact and effects an alcoholic had on YOU. See that? YOU are unhealthy, and YOU need recovery. So YOU should and deserve to have a sponsor. Also, the whole beating yourself up and "can't shake the feeling that if I had stayed in Alanon and worked a good consistent program, maybe I wouldn't have lost my partner." -- that is your stinking thinking. It's self-sabotage. That is simply NOT THE TRUTH. You didn't lose your partner because you didn't stay in alanon and work a good program. The word "lost" may not even have validity here, but assuming it does only because you used it...you lost your partner because HE didn't want to get better, HE didn't go to AA, he didn't want recovery, HE didn't want to live a life of being clean and sober, and recovery...what happened was NOT YOUR FAULT!!! Please don't beat yourself on that. You didn't lose -- you just aren't healthy enough to see what you've won and gained!!! But, you will. I did. I felt I lost my wife, but it wasn't because I didn't go to alanon, stick with alanon, etc. I did!!! I went -- and kept going -- for 25 years!!! She kept doing what she was doing -- drinking, drugs, being and living as an alcoholic.

Do you think if you stuck with alanon, that the program would have taught you to stay? Do you think alanon is designed to teach you how to tolerate the intolerable? Do you think alanon is designed to get you to accept unacceptable behavior? Do you think that alanon will show you how to bear the unbearable? The answers to all of those questions is NO!!! Now, I feel, and this is just me, the AA people in alanon will look at that differently. And, that's OK. They are supposed to. AA is a different, a separate, a distinct program. Just because it's "incestuous" here, in this forum, doesn't mean that's the way it is in the world. As a matter of fact, go to any alanon meeting, and in the opening of the meeting, they speak to anonymity, if you are a member of another 12 step program, please keep that anonymous, and they ask to keep the focus on the alanon program, because it is a different approach to dealing with the effects and impact of alcohol and alcoholism. I don't know if they say that at every meeting everywhere in the world, but in the last year, I've been to meetings in 25 states, two countries, and every single of one of them said that. So -- about YOU -- if you get a sponsor and immerse yourself in recovery, if you do the work...you will no longer feel that guilt and will no longer feel that if you stayed in alanon and worked a strong program that you wouldn't have lose your partner. That was NOT YOUR FAULT.

You feel alone and doomed because you don't have a sponsor. You haven't yet started doing the work. Time takes time. You didn't get here overnight, you are not getting out overnight either. You want to see how much a sponsor can help? How much having someone there for you can help? Here is how much having someone -- who has been through it before -- who can be there for you, can and will make a difference in your life...see below...


A guy is walking down the street...and enjoying the day. Everything is wonderful. Life is wonderful. All of a sudden, out of nowhere, he falls into a hole that he did not see. He lands in the hole, and the hole is so deep, and the walls are so steep...he can't get out.

A doctor passes by, and the guy shouts up, "Doctor, Doctor, I'm stuck down here in this hole and I can't get out." The doctor writes out prescription, folds it up, tosses it down in the hole, and moves on. Our guy in the whole is dejected. 

A little while later, a priest comes by, and our guy shouts up, "Father, Father, I'm stuck down here in this hole, can you help me get out?" The priest writes out a quick prayer, folds it up, throws it down in the hole, and moves on. Our guy is now despondent. He's lost. He has little hope, quickly heading toward no hope. 

Then... all of a sudden... a friend walks by... the guy immediately shouts up, "Hey buddy, it's me, I am stuck down here in the hole and I can't get out, can you help me?"

And then, immediately, without hesitation, the friend jumps down in the hole. Our guy in the hole looks at him and says, "Are you stupid, I can't believe you did that, now we're both stuck down here in this hole."

The friends looks at him... and says... "Yeah, but I've been down here before... and I know the way out."

Take what you like and leave the rest. Keep coming back.

Thank you all SO much for your responses, it has been so helpful. I already feel much better, and also understood.

Just to clarify quickly, I don't have an alcohol/drug problem (I've never been interested in either), sorry if that was confusing. I just on some weird level wish things were clear for me in that way-- that I could 'know' I was sober by not picking up a substance. It's the constant grey area/unknown/need to be so aware whether I even AM emotionally(?) sober or not, while being in the midst of NOT being emotionally sober. It's like I'm trying to practice sobriety while not sober most of the time (sober in an Alanon-ic way I mean.) But that's me being simplistic, and I know it. But it's just all so complex and there's so much to try to be aware of at all times, I long for something solid/tangible to see and feel and grapple with like alcohol itself.

I am going to make more of an effort to find a sponsor at the Alanon phone meetings, and I'm going to try to travel a little further to get to another meeting somewhat near me. Maybe it will be an older crowd and maybe I can find an in-person sponsor there. I'll try at least.

Thank you so much for the warm welcome. I just want to use all the tools I can, and I've already added to my toolbox here... thank you all again for taking the time.

I just saw your second reply Bo. YES. Thank you so much. That all really made sense to me. I look forward to a time I can look at that relationship and be more at peace with the fact that things ended... maybe even get to the point that I am genuinely thankful(?) that it ended (in my heart, not just because I know I am 'supposed' to be happy it's over). I've heard other people say they got to a point like that, and I am open to that possibility even if it sounds foreign now. And I really was putting up with unacceptable behavior (and gaslighting that really challenged my sanity) every single day. It wasn't exactly a great situation.

That story of the hole also resonated. I kept talking to my friends over and over, but no one really 'got it,' or had any guidance, so I've felt stuck down a hole for two years trying to get out but with no one who could really help me in the way I need. I do feel like a sponsor is the answer right now. Thank you again for all you wrote.

inhealinghands - I too welcome you to MIP - Miracles in Progress.....so glad that you found us and glad that you joined right in. What helped me when I really decided to surrender was taking things One Day at a Time, and Keeping it Simple. For me and my situation, I did not arrive at chaos, distorted thinking, processing, feeling overnight and recovery is a long-term solution. I found small amounts of comfort in the beginning by just doing small routine things in a different order and adding suggestions from other members.

I was asked to pray each morning asking for direction for the day, and to read some literature. I was asked to make contact with another in recovery each day and/or go to a meeting. I was told that any/all suggested recovery tools would help me find my peace, my serenity and my joy again. I was also told that as I considered the 24 hours in front of me, what did I need (not anybody else - me) and to plan for me first. Most of us arrive having neglected ourselves for a long while as we chased the drinker or the issues that come from the disease.

I arrived as a Type A planoholic - controlling each moment and task of each day. When I last worked, I was in a leadership position for process improvement, development and design. So - I literally looked at things in my life, and measured 'success/fail' based on black/white criteria in my head...Al-Anon has shown me that shades of gray in life, processing, recovery and relationships lead to great serenity/calm - for me. It took a lot of practice, practice, practice to learn to let go of old habits, thoughts, etc. yet I am proud today to be a miracle in progress.

MIP was put together by a man in recovery who has since passed on. He wanted MIP to be a place where anyone, any where (World Wide) could reach out for help, and the hand of support would be 'here'. Many members here don't have access to local meetings as meetings are not as wide-spread as AA. So, for them, we are their home group and their support. The greatest part of 12-Step recovery is that we each get to use the tools as they best apply to us, and we get to recover at our own pace. There is no graduation, there is no certificate and there is no seniority - everyone is equal no matter age/stage/length of time.

So - for me - since I was so broken when I arrived, simple suggestions helped me start redirecting my thoughts/feelings. Walking my dog while talking to God became a lovely tool for me. Daily gratitude lists were difficult but hugely important to me. When I could not get to a meeting, I attended meetings here (top left - the schedule and the link for the chat room) and they worked wonders for me. Talking to my sponsor or another in recovery each day helped me know I was making progress and not alone.

Today, I don't take myself so seriously and I really enjoy my life. I don't have bad days, I have bad moments of days and I have tools to process and move forward. I no longer give my power away to the disease or the diseased. I surrender my will and ego each morning to my HP and then go about my day trying to do the next right thing. As far as slips in Al-Anon, I do review my day nightly looking for what worked well and what didn't feel so good. I look for lessons to grow/learn instead of beating myself up. I have no issue today making amends or admitting when I am wrong - I have chosen to be happy instead of worried about who's right/wrong. Anytime I am feeling 'right' or uncomfortable about an exchange, a situation, etc. I examine me and what's going on in my head and heart. I don't get all wrapped up in defining things as slips - I just do what I can to get me back to my center, my place of serenity.

I am still married to my alcoholic and have 2 alcoholic/addict sons. One is back at the house and is not sober. I did not set a boundary that he has to be to live here, but do have a boundary that no mind altering substances are allowed. I am also sober in AA for 31+ years, so have compassion for others who can't get sober. I've watched many die and do believe in the disease factor as well as the powerlessness of the obsession. When I arrived to Al-Anon, this disease in the three people I love the most had me wanting to die...so - it does work when we work it. I was wound so tightly, almost every meeting I attended, the best suggested I got was to just sit and breathe....breathe, breathe, breathe.

I am attaching many/most of the slogans (and a few personal ones I use) for you to use/consider as you wish/want. I am also leaving you with the Just for Today writings that comes on a bookmark given out at meetings to newcomers!

JUST FOR TODAY I will try to live through this day
only, and not tackle all my problems at once. I can do
something for 12 hours that would appall me if I felt
that I had to keep it up for a lifetime.

JUST FOR TODAY I will be happy. This assumes to be true
what Abraham Lincoln said, that "Most folks are as
happy as they make up their minds to be."

JUST FOR TODAY I will adjust myself to what is, and not
try to adjust everything to my own desires. I will take
my "luck" as it comes, and fit myself to it.

JUST FOR TODAY I will try to strengthen my mind. I will
study. I will learn something useful. I will not be a
mental loafer. I will read something that requires effort,
thought and concentration.

JUST FOR TODAY I will exercise my soul in three ways:
I will do somebody a good turn, and not get found out;
if anybody knows of it, it will not count. I will do at
least two things I don't want to do -- just for exercise.
I will not show anyone that my feelings are hurt; they
may be hurt, but today I will not show it.

JUST FOR TODAY I will be agreeable. I will look as well
as I can, dress becomingly, keep my voice, low, be
courteous, criticize not one bit. I won't find fault with
anything, nor try to improve or regulate anybody but
myself.

JUST FOR TODAY I will have a program. I may not follow
it exactly, but I will have it. I will save myself from
two pests: hurry and indecision.

JUST FOR TODAY I will have a quiet half hour all by
myself, and relax. During this half hour, sometime, I
will try to get a better perspective of my life.

JUST FOR TODAY I will be unafraid. Especially I will not
be afraid to enjoy what is beautiful, and to believe that
as I give to the world, so the world will give to me.

Just like all of us, you are a Miracle in Progress - keep coming back - you are worth it!

Welcome, inhealinghands!!

You ARE so worth it!!
For my second "go-round" with Al-Anon, I was too broken and embarrassed to attend face to face meetings. I was barely surviving, both emotionally and financially. Every day was a struggle. But I knew I needed help.
So you know what I did? I came back here and read - every day. Many times 2-3 times a day! I reread "Codependent No More," by Melanie Beattie. I then began to embrace the slogan of One Day At A Time. And also, To Be Gentle with Myself. That was particularly important... b/c there were times I felt immense guilt that I wasn't going to meetings. Things people said, or posted made me feel like I was doing this thing "wrong."

There is no "wrong way." There is only your way. Eventually, I felt strong enough and had some "free" time, so I ventured to a meeting. I cried for the first 5 meetings!! But a kind soul came up to me after one of the meetings and told me, "It gets better. YOU will get better. Keep coming." and she handed me her contact number. I eventually found a sponsor and began working the Steps. But honestly, real healing didn't begin until I truly embraced ACCEPTANCE. Sure, I intellectually knew things, but never fully accepted. That was my EGO. Yuppers! Who knew the self-less one had an ego! LOL! Step 4 was especially important to me, but because of my "trouble" with Acceptance, it took quite a while to get to that Step.

So, please be gentle with yourself. Take One Day at a Time. From your post, you are pointed in the right direction... just begin your journey, and don't worry about doing it "right" or how long it takes.

One of my favorite slogans of all... Progress Not Perfection!

Wishing you peace!

InHealingHands welcome back today and mahalo for sharing and receiving the ESH (Experience Strength and Hope) of this family I have learned much from listening and this is supported with my gratitude because of the "How to do it" memories I was taught when first finding the program for real.  When I stopped fighting it and relaxed and then decided to go along with what others were doing and getting as a result I learned about miracles and growth and sanity and serenity and so much more.  Thanks for stopping in and being a part of this family also.   ((((hugs))))