Your ES&H please - friend who's on her pity pot - boundaries and detachment for me
Choriste said
Feb 21, 2019
Hi everyone,
I am married to a recovering alcoholic and one of the friends I have met through his circle of friends is a woman with whom I attended Al-Anon, shopped, did prep meals, all the fun BFF's do (which was a new thing for me as I have struggled with "normal" friendships).
Fast forward to last month, when she relapsed. In a big way. Blackout, beer in the car, hit another vehicle head on. She underwent surgery, etc. and is awaiting hearing for her DUI. It's either #3 or #4 and so she is almost certainly going to jail. I've been working with my sponsor because boy, the emotions I have been experiencing. These are new to me because although the family disease applies to me, I've never actually dealt with this type situation directly.
Her boyfriend called it done (as he had said he would do if she relapsed - he also is in recovery), but he hasn't moved out yet. She has a habit of doing "poor little me" and beating herself up at the same time and I have had to choose some boundaries and pick what I have been comfortable with doing. I have taken her to some meetings, come and cleaned, grocery shopping, etc.
So last night took her to a meeting, went out to dinner with my husband while she was there, and picked her up and took her home. She texted me a couple of times after, and the last text I sent her was something that I had found in an online meeting "Removing the victim" (not sure what it's from - CTC, maybe) and my comment that I thought it was interesting and it really hit me. Her next text which came in after I fell asleep and so saw this morning the first time was "Yes, it gave me some comfort. Thank you. I just feel so lonely."
The feeling it gave me surprised me - I felt angry. I realized, I'm tired of being the optimist in this relationship - originally we were similar, but now I'm Pollyanna and she's Aunt Polly. I'm tired. She relapsed, she's set this set of events in motion, and she wants to tell me how lonely she is after I've "taken my evening" to get her to a meeting.
Aha! Oops!! I'm playing a martyr here, I realized relatively quickly - thankfully! Need to stop that. But need to acknowledge the feeling. So your ES&H is requested about how you have dealt with similar situations. Trying to navigate loving detachment while providing practical help for someone who does need some practical help. Needing to feel the anger and yet not start feeling like a martyr. Not wanting to be cruel but not wanting to enable.
Thanks for letting me share.
Iamhere said
Feb 21, 2019
(((Choriste))) - so sorry that your friend relapsed and there is chaos around. Unfortunately, the chaos, drama, legal, etc. all seems to come (fast and hard) for an A who relapses - speaking from my own experience. For me, when I am struggling to determine what my role is in any relationship, I tend to refocus on my own recovery allowing the answers to come.
I recently had to explain to my son, who's floundering currently, that I didn't know how to be a mom to him, how to be of service to him and that I am far from perfect. At the same time, I told him that his attitude and outlook was affecting my serenity and I needed some processing time. Thank God I have a sponsor to lean on and a solid program!! He's decided that AA is not for him (I would insert an eye-roll if I had one).
We (Al-Anon folks, friends, family) tend to unintentionally and without notice give away our power at times of crisis. The gift of recovery for me is when I pause long enough to determine what's up with me, what am I feeling, why have I sacrificed my serenity/sanity, etc. I can then explore my boundaries and some possible new ones.
I have gotten better suggesting to others they need to talk it out with their sponsor/other support. I am an imperfect human and can't fix the world, I can only work on me. Hang in there - I have a sponsee who's currently in jail for her 4th DUI. She's been there since before T-Giving and won't be out until late April. Her court process took a long, long while - she will celebrate one year sober in jail in 2 weeks.
One day at a time, this too shall pass!
Choriste said
Feb 21, 2019
Iamhere wrote:
For me, when I am struggling to determine what my role is in any relationship, I tend to refocus on my own recovery allowing the answers to come.
....
We (Al-Anon folks, friends, family) tend to unintentionally and without notice give away our power at times of crisis. The gift of recovery for me is when I pause long enough to determine what's up with me, what am I feeling, why have I sacrificed my serenity/sanity, etc. I can then explore my boundaries and some possible new ones.
Thank you so much and particularly for both of the thoughts above. This is so true for me too and a great reminder.
mamalioness said
Feb 21, 2019
Hi!!! Oh yea, I can jump right in and be the "rescuer" if I don't watch me, and CHECK my MOTIVES...and also check in with me...how am I feeling about what I am doing??? Am I doing what THEY are responsible for??? encouragement, compassion are one thing, but absorbing their deeds/consequences are quiet another...I have to check in with me all the time AND---- IF i am feeling "taken advantage of/put out" it usually is because I AM....so its my job to stop...breathe...work a quick step 10...set proper boundary
GREAT that you are aware...aware = action = overcoming the issue and getting back within the guard rails of recovery....GOOD job!!!!
tiredtonite said
Feb 21, 2019
Hi Choriste,
It sounds like you enjoy this gal's company and the fun times you've been having. Her feelings are hers. If she voices that she is lonely maybe she is. If her bf either dumped her or plans to because she relapsed that bring about a feeling of loneliness.
If you're just acquaintances and the relationship is a superficial one, you can choose to limit your time around her if you feel uneasy with what she shares about what she is going through. She's back in the rooms, someone will listen. TT
mamalioness said
Feb 22, 2019
Oh I love what TT said...her feelings are HER issues, not yours...I watch and "check in with me" and if I notice that another is sucking the life out of me, I am either gone or distancing....
tiredtonite said
Feb 22, 2019
I think expressing empathy and compassion can go a long way to increasing understanding and helping someone to feel less alone. This is what my program has taught me and what works for me personally in my relationships. I'm grateful not to feel a need to detach with an axe from those who are suffering. Typically, discomfort in what someone else shares is a subtle nudge from my higher power that there is something still unresolved within myself, something I need to work on. For instance, growth for me comes from an ability to listen with compassion and express empathy, being a friend and not jumping in to fix another person's problem. Ultimately, my goal is to grow closer to another person through voicing what I can or cannot do, will or will not do. At that point, I've stated my boundary. It may need restating if the person is in crisis. That is ok as long as I restate it with kindness and respect for myself and the other person.
In any relationship, when it changes I remind myself that it's my job to look at my own part and contribution. Is it still working? Is it workable? I have always liked making an inventory about a relationship when I feel I'm at a crossroads concering it. It helps me to parse out my true feelings. On one side I write out the pros of the relationship on the other the cons. What am I getting out of being in this relationship? It's a way of unearthing my true motive. It gives me a clearer picture of not so much how the other person is but rather how I am showing up in the relationship. It always comes back to myself and my behavior. Maybe the relationship is triggering things in me that give me discomfort. Maybe my hp has brought a person into my life as an opportunity to grow my own recovery use recovery tools I've been using recently. For me, it's important to always turn the finger inward and ask my hp for helping in identifying the root cause of my dis-ease in a given situation. I pray for myself and the other in this process and hp's will. TT
Choriste said
Feb 22, 2019
tiredtonite wrote:
Hi Choriste,
It sounds like you enjoy this gal's company and the fun times you've been having. Her feelings are hers. If she voices that she is lonely maybe she is. If her bf either dumped her or plans to because she relapsed that bring about a feeling of loneliness.
If you're just acquaintances and the relationship is a superficial one, you can choose to limit your time around her if you feel uneasy with what she shares about what she is going through. She's back in the rooms, someone will listen. TT
Thank you to everyone who's responded. It's very helpful.
It's more a friendship than an acquaintance, and she's expressed that I'm her best friend. One time several months back she said "You're my bestie and I know I'm not yours, but that's okay." I was left with an odd and uncomfortable feeling, uncertainty of how to respond. Just mentioning that to note that it's been a journey, and one that I'm uneasily navigating - even before her relapse - because I've almost never been able to have a balanced friendship. I either pick people who are needy and construe friendship as my helping them, or I jump out if things get too much. I'm trying to grow and navigate the complexities of a deeper friendship, if that makes sense. None of us are normal, so I can't go looking for "normal people" to have friendships with, if you know what I mean!
I have been definitely responding with reflecting feelings back, active listening, etc. Was pleased when she invited me along to a group event - I didn't want to go and didn't want to spend money but encouraged her to go (it was a painting party type thing where you pay $35 and come home with a painting - not my idea of a good time, but definitely hers, and these other friends) and she did go and had a great time. She was "feeling torn," she said, and I said "hey, grab the chance to go, you'll have a great time. What would you tell me to do if the situation were reversed?" She then realized she'd tell me to go and have fun. So that was nice, seeing her willingness to do that.
I have been offering practical help like driving her to meetings if she doesn't have a ride, grocery shopping when she couldn't get out after surgery, etc. Trying to listen when appropriate without losing my family balance - I have two adult children at home and my husband who says he's the other adult child (ha!) and who all need "a piece of me." Plus making sure I find time for self-care too.
I really appreciate the wisdom and insight and ES&H. Thank you!
tiredtonite said
Feb 22, 2019
Choriste,
This woman is so lucky to have you in her life at this time. Someone much like yourself entered my life when I was new and struggling. We didn't become sponsee and sponsor but I never forgot her. I had the good fortune to see her in the rooms years later when I went back home and was able to express my gratitude. Keep taking care of you. You sound like you know where the line is. Thanks for sharing how you're working it. TT
Mattie said
Feb 23, 2019
"I'm so lonely" could be a manipulative passive-aggressive comment, or it could be a self-absorbed comment, or it could just be a statement of fact (although if there are too many like this, it heads over into self-absorbed territory). Generally when we're having a crisis, we have a period of being more self-absorbed. The complicated thing here is that she's caused her own crisis.
Whichever it is, it sounds as if she genuinely is lonely, and that wouldn't be surprising. People whose lives are out of whack often don't have the skills to build many strong friendships, plus our isolating, individualistic culture means that loneliness can come to anyone who's not extra outgoing or energetic or very lucky. But of course her loneliness is not yours to solve. "Mmm, that's a hard feeling" might be a sympathetic but non-committal response.
But then there's the fact that you're going way out of your way to help her recover from a crisis that she's brought on herself. And if she's going to jail, the crisis isn't going to end any time soon. I think in those situations, the person in crisis has a hard time seeing when they're asked too much, or are accepting too much. And so it's up to us to set boundaries and take care of ourselves. Especially if she's so self-focused, she won't be contributing much to the friendship right now, so it's not very reciprocal. Hope you can take good care of yourself.
Choriste said
Feb 26, 2019
Thanks again, everyone. I really truly appreciate all the wisdom shared.
Good news is I'm continuing to communicate, mainly by text - we went to our "normal" meeting on Saturday morning and did a couple errands - all usual stuff. Been family focused since my father-in-law died over the weekend and we're making travel plans, etc. and I've done better at honoring my feelings and holding boundaries but gently.
As an aside, my assistant quit by email this morning with no notice, and I'm due to travel out of town Friday for a funeral then have my planned vacation next week - we were originally going to care for my father-in-law and now are going to be cleaning the house and readying it for sale. So my department essentially will have to close. I cried and sat on my pity pot for a little bit this morning but then picked myself up and did "the next right thing" and I am actually in really really good shape. I'm not even mad at her (my coworkers are, lol) as I think she just didn't have the courage to look me in the eye and tell me she couldn't take the stress anymore. I think she was really struggling (we do customer service type work and the callers are sometimes pretty bad).
So grateful today!!
Thanks!
Iamhere said
Feb 26, 2019
(((Choriste))) - so sorry for the loss of your father-in-law....safe travels for your family and great job with your boundaries and honoring your feelings! Keep doing you....one day at a time!
Hi everyone,
I am married to a recovering alcoholic and one of the friends I have met through his circle of friends is a woman with whom I attended Al-Anon, shopped, did prep meals, all the fun BFF's do (which was a new thing for me as I have struggled with "normal" friendships).
Fast forward to last month, when she relapsed. In a big way. Blackout, beer in the car, hit another vehicle head on. She underwent surgery, etc. and is awaiting hearing for her DUI. It's either #3 or #4 and so she is almost certainly going to jail. I've been working with my sponsor because boy, the emotions I have been experiencing. These are new to me because although the family disease applies to me, I've never actually dealt with this type situation directly.
Her boyfriend called it done (as he had said he would do if she relapsed - he also is in recovery), but he hasn't moved out yet. She has a habit of doing "poor little me" and beating herself up at the same time and I have had to choose some boundaries and pick what I have been comfortable with doing. I have taken her to some meetings, come and cleaned, grocery shopping, etc.
So last night took her to a meeting, went out to dinner with my husband while she was there, and picked her up and took her home. She texted me a couple of times after, and the last text I sent her was something that I had found in an online meeting "Removing the victim" (not sure what it's from - CTC, maybe) and my comment that I thought it was interesting and it really hit me. Her next text which came in after I fell asleep and so saw this morning the first time was "Yes, it gave me some comfort. Thank you. I just feel so lonely."
The feeling it gave me surprised me - I felt angry. I realized, I'm tired of being the optimist in this relationship - originally we were similar, but now I'm Pollyanna and she's Aunt Polly. I'm tired. She relapsed, she's set this set of events in motion, and she wants to tell me how lonely she is after I've "taken my evening" to get her to a meeting.
Aha! Oops!! I'm playing a martyr here, I realized relatively quickly - thankfully! Need to stop that. But need to acknowledge the feeling. So your ES&H is requested about how you have dealt with similar situations. Trying to navigate loving detachment while providing practical help for someone who does need some practical help. Needing to feel the anger and yet not start feeling like a martyr. Not wanting to be cruel but not wanting to enable.
Thanks for letting me share.
I recently had to explain to my son, who's floundering currently, that I didn't know how to be a mom to him, how to be of service to him and that I am far from perfect. At the same time, I told him that his attitude and outlook was affecting my serenity and I needed some processing time. Thank God I have a sponsor to lean on and a solid program!! He's decided that AA is not for him (I would insert an eye-roll if I had one).
We (Al-Anon folks, friends, family) tend to unintentionally and without notice give away our power at times of crisis. The gift of recovery for me is when I pause long enough to determine what's up with me, what am I feeling, why have I sacrificed my serenity/sanity, etc. I can then explore my boundaries and some possible new ones.
I have gotten better suggesting to others they need to talk it out with their sponsor/other support. I am an imperfect human and can't fix the world, I can only work on me. Hang in there - I have a sponsee who's currently in jail for her 4th DUI. She's been there since before T-Giving and won't be out until late April. Her court process took a long, long while - she will celebrate one year sober in jail in 2 weeks.
One day at a time, this too shall pass!
Thank you so much and particularly for both of the thoughts above. This is so true for me too and a great reminder.
Hi!!! Oh yea, I can jump right in and be the "rescuer" if I don't watch me, and CHECK my MOTIVES...and also check in with me...how am I feeling about what I am doing??? Am I doing what THEY are responsible for??? encouragement, compassion are one thing, but absorbing their deeds/consequences are quiet another...I have to check in with me all the time AND---- IF i am feeling "taken advantage of/put out" it usually is because I AM....so its my job to stop...breathe...work a quick step 10...set proper boundary
GREAT that you are aware...aware = action = overcoming the issue and getting back within the guard rails of recovery....GOOD job!!!!
Hi Choriste,
It sounds like you enjoy this gal's company and the fun times you've been having. Her feelings are hers. If she voices that she is lonely maybe she is. If her bf either dumped her or plans to because she relapsed that bring about a feeling of loneliness.
If you're just acquaintances and the relationship is a superficial one, you can choose to limit your time around her if you feel uneasy with what she shares about what she is going through. She's back in the rooms, someone will listen. TT
I think expressing empathy and compassion can go a long way to increasing understanding and helping someone to feel less alone. This is what my program has taught me and what works for me personally in my relationships. I'm grateful not to feel a need to detach with an axe from those who are suffering. Typically, discomfort in what someone else shares is a subtle nudge from my higher power that there is something still unresolved within myself, something I need to work on. For instance, growth for me comes from an ability to listen with compassion and express empathy, being a friend and not jumping in to fix another person's problem. Ultimately, my goal is to grow closer to another person through voicing what I can or cannot do, will or will not do. At that point, I've stated my boundary. It may need restating if the person is in crisis. That is ok as long as I restate it with kindness and respect for myself and the other person.
In any relationship, when it changes I remind myself that it's my job to look at my own part and contribution. Is it still working? Is it workable? I have always liked making an inventory about a relationship when I feel I'm at a crossroads concering it. It helps me to parse out my true feelings. On one side I write out the pros of the relationship on the other the cons. What am I getting out of being in this relationship? It's a way of unearthing my true motive. It gives me a clearer picture of not so much how the other person is but rather how I am showing up in the relationship. It always comes back to myself and my behavior. Maybe the relationship is triggering things in me that give me discomfort. Maybe my hp has brought a person into my life as an opportunity to grow my own recovery use recovery tools I've been using recently. For me, it's important to always turn the finger inward and ask my hp for helping in identifying the root cause of my dis-ease in a given situation. I pray for myself and the other in this process and hp's will. TT
Thank you to everyone who's responded. It's very helpful.
It's more a friendship than an acquaintance, and she's expressed that I'm her best friend. One time several months back she said "You're my bestie and I know I'm not yours, but that's okay." I was left with an odd and uncomfortable feeling, uncertainty of how to respond. Just mentioning that to note that it's been a journey, and one that I'm uneasily navigating - even before her relapse - because I've almost never been able to have a balanced friendship. I either pick people who are needy and construe friendship as my helping them, or I jump out if things get too much. I'm trying to grow and navigate the complexities of a deeper friendship, if that makes sense. None of us are normal, so I can't go looking for "normal people" to have friendships with, if you know what I mean!
I have been definitely responding with reflecting feelings back, active listening, etc. Was pleased when she invited me along to a group event - I didn't want to go and didn't want to spend money but encouraged her to go (it was a painting party type thing where you pay $35 and come home with a painting - not my idea of a good time, but definitely hers, and these other friends) and she did go and had a great time. She was "feeling torn," she said, and I said "hey, grab the chance to go, you'll have a great time. What would you tell me to do if the situation were reversed?" She then realized she'd tell me to go and have fun. So that was nice, seeing her willingness to do that.
I have been offering practical help like driving her to meetings if she doesn't have a ride, grocery shopping when she couldn't get out after surgery, etc. Trying to listen when appropriate without losing my family balance - I have two adult children at home and my husband who says he's the other adult child (ha!) and who all need "a piece of me." Plus making sure I find time for self-care too.
I really appreciate the wisdom and insight and ES&H. Thank you!
Choriste,
This woman is so lucky to have you in her life at this time. Someone much like yourself entered my life when I was new and struggling. We didn't become sponsee and sponsor but I never forgot her. I had the good fortune to see her in the rooms years later when I went back home and was able to express my gratitude. Keep taking care of you. You sound like you know where the line is. Thanks for sharing how you're working it. TT
"I'm so lonely" could be a manipulative passive-aggressive comment, or it could be a self-absorbed comment, or it could just be a statement of fact (although if there are too many like this, it heads over into self-absorbed territory). Generally when we're having a crisis, we have a period of being more self-absorbed. The complicated thing here is that she's caused her own crisis.
Whichever it is, it sounds as if she genuinely is lonely, and that wouldn't be surprising. People whose lives are out of whack often don't have the skills to build many strong friendships, plus our isolating, individualistic culture means that loneliness can come to anyone who's not extra outgoing or energetic or very lucky. But of course her loneliness is not yours to solve. "Mmm, that's a hard feeling" might be a sympathetic but non-committal response.
But then there's the fact that you're going way out of your way to help her recover from a crisis that she's brought on herself. And if she's going to jail, the crisis isn't going to end any time soon. I think in those situations, the person in crisis has a hard time seeing when they're asked too much, or are accepting too much. And so it's up to us to set boundaries and take care of ourselves. Especially if she's so self-focused, she won't be contributing much to the friendship right now, so it's not very reciprocal. Hope you can take good care of yourself.
Good news is I'm continuing to communicate, mainly by text - we went to our "normal" meeting on Saturday morning and did a couple errands - all usual stuff. Been family focused since my father-in-law died over the weekend and we're making travel plans, etc. and I've done better at honoring my feelings and holding boundaries but gently.
As an aside, my assistant quit by email this morning with no notice, and I'm due to travel out of town Friday for a funeral then have my planned vacation next week - we were originally going to care for my father-in-law and now are going to be cleaning the house and readying it for sale. So my department essentially will have to close. I cried and sat on my pity pot for a little bit this morning but then picked myself up and did "the next right thing" and I am actually in really really good shape. I'm not even mad at her (my coworkers are, lol) as I think she just didn't have the courage to look me in the eye and tell me she couldn't take the stress anymore. I think she was really struggling (we do customer service type work and the callers are sometimes pretty bad).
So grateful today!!
Thanks!