Hi allI am in a full out codependency relapse. I know I need to get back to face to face meetings. It feels awkward to go back. My AH has a past history of being a mean, obnoxious drunk and got sober in 2010 when he worked a rigorous AA program with a sponsor, a 90/90, he even sponsored someone.He stopped going to AA a year ago. He has a newer job that requires that he travel for work quite a bit. Ive known for a while that he has been drinking while traveling.
Tonight, for the third time, I found a batch of credit card charges to bars and several charges for drinks on the airplane. This is just something we dont talk about. We have not discussed his drinking in over a year, though I can tell quite often when he calls at night that he is drinking. My kids are terrified that he will drink again as he was such a monster when he was drinking. They have said to me several times when dad called tonight, he sounded like hed been drinking then they beg me not to tell him they said this. We are all wrapped in our shrouds of denial and make believe. I am invested in protecting my children from the anxiety and worry that I experience. I do not lie or reassure them, I say I hope that is not happening. I do not know. If at any time you are thinking that and are uncomfortable, its ok to make up an excuse to get off the phone. Our financial situation is literally a house of cards that will implode if he loses his job. We have 2 kids in college and we barely make ends meet. Bc he was arrested 6 years ago and in jail overnight for violent behavior when drunk at a bar, I am terrified that his drinking is going to land him in jail again. He WILL be fired for this.
I so badly want him to know that I KNOW he is drinking. Whenever I have done this in the past, he becomes rageful and screams horrible things at me. I want to scream at him for putting our family in jeopardy like this. I have felt that I could not say anything to him just on my perceptions alone when he calls and I can tell hes been drinking. But having the evidence of the credit card receipts (AGAIN) makes me feel like I should say something to him. As Im writing this Im sort of figuring it out that we have had the same discussion before and its really done no good, I only get a target painted on me for his rage. What are my options? I badly want a divorce but we cannot do that right now with our finances. I cannot trust him and my feelings for him have eroded into nothing. I pretend though. I am always happy and bubbly and I wear a mask with him, but deep down (not that deep) I am seething, resentful, and wish I had never laid eyes on him. Do I tell him I have the proof hes drinking still and ask him to stop? Do I say nothing and work on my Third Step? I have my magical thinking that if I say the right thing **this ** time hell stop Im sorry this is so long and I appreciate you reading this far!! I am begging for any ESH!
DavidG said
Feb 15, 2019
Oh no! This is hell-on-earth.... ... you already know the answer- the serenity prayer. All I could offer you at this moment- but also to acknowledge your distress... ...it is an ugly, mean, destructive illness...!
Lots of our members will be sleeping now- in the USA... so I am leaving this message here- to remind you that you were heard.
With everything going on that you spoke about -- categorize all of it, into two categories -- one, that is about YOU, and the second, is about HIM. So, your job just got cut in half! LOL. The not so secret secret to being happy and healthy is to focus on YOU. Work on YOU. That said, unfortunately, while you have clarity around your situation, your feelings, what you want, what is best for you...unfortunately, the tail is wagging the dog here. You want a divorce -- badly -- but you can't proceed with that. So, right from the get-go, you are dealing in a negative orientation, negative outcome, negative result...because.
You have to deal with, handle, and work on YOU -- the fact that you want to confront, say something, show him the proof, etc. You want to do this, and you know there is no upside -- he is going to lash out, scream and yell at you, be hateful, rage, and so on. But, you have to do the work...on, in and around, about, and for YOU. You know that. You have the target on you...so don't be the target. Focus on YOU and your kids.
You have to let go, detach, etc. -- you can't worry about him landing in jail. If he does, he will land there because of decisions HE made, actions HE took, things HE did. You can't worry about that. You have no control over any of that. Remember, that's not your job! LOL.
Get back to face to face meetings...find a sponsor (if you don't have one)...and get to work. All of this things you spoke about -- all of it can be addressed in working with your sponsor.
Junipurr said
Feb 15, 2019
David G and Bo
Thank you both for your thoughts. David Gyes, the serenity prayer is a great way to bring things back to clarity. Thank you.
I appreciate the validation and Bo, I am going to do some journaling with columns of what is HIM and what is ME. Everything you said is correct.
It seems in formatting, much punctuation was eliminated in my post and that made it even longer and harder to wade through. Thank you both for your responses!
Iamhere said
Feb 15, 2019
Welcome to MIP Junipurr - glad you found us and glad that you joined in and shared. Living with this disease is overwhelming, anxiety-producing and frustrating - not necessarily in that order. The disease is progressive so tends to return in different forms at different times. I am glad you have experience with Al-Anon -- I encourage you to find the courage to return. For me, when the disease is knocking at the door, my best course of action is to lean in to my recovery in any way, shape or form.
I tend to step up my meetings, readings, phone calls, prayer, meditation which helps me get centered. My 'thinking cap' doesn't perform as well when I am left or right of center. It's easy for me to get all wrapped up in projection and fear and that's not a good place for me to process from.
I love your idea of writing - there is something clarifying for me in writing out what's going on and what's my part. You are not alone and I hope you keep coming back - there is hope and help always in recovery...
DavidG said
Feb 15, 2019
To get back to your point Junipurr... trying to force issues- may lead to conflict, rather than generate solutions. I always felt i had to look out for opportunities- to make a difference. And to be in a fit state of mind myself- to take advantage of these opportunities.
The image that springs to mind comes from magazine cartoons- I saw in my childhood- of a wife standing behind the door with a raised frying pan.
Having said that- as a kid I wondered where my dad was. One night I camped out under the living room table- with a blanket and an eider down. Some time in the night I was woken up. My dad was there with a friend. The friend was on the phone trying to explain top his wife whey he would be late home.
Lots has changed since then- like women in AA, and men in Alanon...
...but I suppose the core issues remain the same... my tuppeny worth... ...
Bo said
Feb 15, 2019
You want to work on yourself? Get better? Really better? And are you ready to be completely open and honest?
If so...CHECK YOUR MOTIVES. Talk to your sponsor about this very specific issue...and you'll see exactly what you have to do. Do this...and you'll get better.
Junipurr said
Feb 15, 2019
Thank you again to everyone!
Mattie said
Feb 16, 2019
Sounds like you are getting oriented again. Whenever I'm in a tough situation, I find it helps me to have a Plan B. Like, I might not be able to change jobs/move/leave a guy/whatever at the moment, but I can work towards being ready. Then if I decide to stay in the present circumstances, it's because I actively choose to, not because I'm trapped. I know college is a tough thing to afford, so that looks like it limits your options. However, I work at a university, and so I know that students have parents who divorce or lose their jobs quite frequently. The financial aid office will have dealt with this many times, and they can recalculate things and present options. I know there are no easy answers to any of this. Hang in there! Hugs.
ginnyc said
Feb 17, 2019
Hi you said you haven't been to f2f meetings for awhile and it was awkward to go back. I hope you do. I understand those feelings but everyone has been in similar situations.
texas yankee said
Feb 17, 2019
When he seems to be doing better, there have been many times I've suggested to my adult son (alcohol and drug issues) that he has a lot of balls to keep juggling, and that if he drops even just one of them (looses his job, gets picked up by the cops for speeding, eluding, or whatever, forgets to pay his rent, etc., etc.) it all falls apart - in other words, it's a "house of cards" situation. Of course, my loving reminders, my enabling, my begging, my pleading, my attempt at deals with God, all came to nothing - he still did what alcoholics do - drink - and that caused problems. My reality, something that I still struggle with every minute of every day to accept and put into practice, is just one leg of our 3C's slogan - "I CAN'T CONTROL IT" ! In my head I know I can't control it, but that doesn't stop my heart from thinking "Well, maybe THIS time things will be different" - and when I fail (win some, lose some), of course things are never different or they're not different for long - I guess what I'm trying to say here is that you wondering whether or not you should tell your AH that you know he's drinking, is like my situation of telling my adult son about his house of cards - what good is it gonna do? I don't know your AH, but from your description, telling him could even make things worse - possibly, a lot worse.
I'm relatively certain that you've tried to get him to stop drinking before this - has that been successful? Obviously, HE has to wanna stop and HE has to be committed to HIS sobriety - from what I've seen, that's the only way it works.
To reduce your financial exposure \ pressure, there may be less expensive colleges for your kids than where they are going now - maybe you could downsize your housing situation into something smaller and less expensive.
I'm a BIG believer in how Step 11 tells us to pray - "asking ONLY (emphasis is mine) for His will for us and the power to carry it out". It makes my prayers a lot simpler and focused, and it reminds me I don't know what's best for me and certainly not for others - I think at this point, that you gotta take care of you - FTF meetings, a sponsor, and Al Anon readings will help with taking care of you - lots of my Al Anon friends with spouse issues speak highly of this - https://www.amazon.com/Dilemma-Alcoholic-Marriage-Al-Anon-Family/dp/0910034184.
Don't lose hope !
JerryF said
Feb 17, 2019
Aloha Juni...you have received a wealth of feedback as to your condition and again I am amazed at it all...so much to think about and consider and consider trying which comes down to the point of "doing something different" which is what I did and how I started my recovery...doing something new and then what was new was the somethings I tried had been done by others in the rooms. My sponsor use to tell me "find out what is working for others and do that". It worked even though it was strange for me because I didn't think it up myself...I was duplicating the efforts of the fellowship.
I can say from experience and practice that if he is a user of physical force, anger and rage there has got to be a guideline he will consider that if he attempts it the consequences will be harsh. That is how I got off of and away from using physical force, rage and violence on my own. Yes I used fear in the past to keep control over situations I was loosing control of however learning that I would be responsible for my own negative consequences caused me to retrain. Men have many sick and sorry ways of handling fear, don't be one of them.
Keep coming back here often take what you like, leave the rest and teach us what works for you. (((((hugs)))))
Junipurr said
Feb 18, 2019
Dear Friends-I am reading and reading your posts and it calms me to read your words of support. Texas Yankee-I am ordering your book recommendation. Mattie-I am working on a Plan Bthat is always helpful for me as a backup that I hope I never need. Jerry, Gina, iamhere, Davis G, and Bothank you all for your time and responses.
Iamhere said
Feb 18, 2019
(((Junipurr))) - love your share! What you wrote is exactly what MIP did to me and for me when I arrived! I would come, hang out, read, absorb and it calmed me. Keep doing what you're doing - if you're getting peace of mind and serenity, you're doing something right! Keep it simple and keep coming back!
canadianguy said
Feb 19, 2019
Very tough on you and the kids, and you've already received tons of great & supportive replies....
"Outing" an alcoholic for drinking is not really a good use of your time or energy, as all you are ultimately doing is accusing him of something that he knows he is doing.
What IS a much better use of your time & energy - for both you and your kids - is to focus on your respective recoveries, and how you can educate yourself, and learn the best ways to deal with all of this. I assure you - false senses of denial, ignoring, and pretending against hope that things will be okay is not the healthiest of choices for any of you (no judgment there - we have ALL used denial as a significant coping tool).
So, if it takes 150lbs of effort to confront your active A that he is, well, an active A..... I'd humbly suggest that you take all 150lbs of effort (and maybe throw in another 50 for good luck) towards yourself and recovery for you & your kids. Al-Anon, MIP, books such as Getting Them Sober, volume one, by Toby Rice Drews - these will help you 100x more than simply "outing" him.
Oh no! This is hell-on-earth....
... you already know the answer- the serenity prayer. All I could offer you at this moment- but also to acknowledge your distress... ...it is an ugly, mean, destructive illness...!
Lots of our members will be sleeping now- in the USA... so I am leaving this message here- to remind you that you were heard.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((( Junipurr... )))))))))))))))))))))))))))
You have to deal with, handle, and work on YOU -- the fact that you want to confront, say something, show him the proof, etc. You want to do this, and you know there is no upside -- he is going to lash out, scream and yell at you, be hateful, rage, and so on. But, you have to do the work...on, in and around, about, and for YOU. You know that. You have the target on you...so don't be the target. Focus on YOU and your kids.
You have to let go, detach, etc. -- you can't worry about him landing in jail. If he does, he will land there because of decisions HE made, actions HE took, things HE did. You can't worry about that. You have no control over any of that. Remember, that's not your job! LOL.
Get back to face to face meetings...find a sponsor (if you don't have one)...and get to work. All of this things you spoke about -- all of it can be addressed in working with your sponsor.
I tend to step up my meetings, readings, phone calls, prayer, meditation which helps me get centered. My 'thinking cap' doesn't perform as well when I am left or right of center. It's easy for me to get all wrapped up in projection and fear and that's not a good place for me to process from.
I love your idea of writing - there is something clarifying for me in writing out what's going on and what's my part. You are not alone and I hope you keep coming back - there is hope and help always in recovery...
To get back to your point Junipurr... trying to force issues- may lead to conflict, rather than generate solutions. I always felt i had to look out for opportunities- to make a difference. And to be in a fit state of mind myself- to take advantage of these opportunities.
The image that springs to mind comes from magazine cartoons- I saw in my childhood- of a wife standing behind the door with a raised frying pan.
Having said that- as a kid I wondered where my dad was. One night I camped out under the living room table- with a blanket and an eider down. Some time in the night I was woken up. My dad was there with a friend. The friend was on the phone trying to explain top his wife whey he would be late home.
Lots has changed since then- like women in AA, and men in Alanon...
...but I suppose the core issues remain the same... my tuppeny worth...
...
If so...CHECK YOUR MOTIVES. Talk to your sponsor about this very specific issue...and you'll see exactly what you have to do. Do this...and you'll get better.
Sounds like you are getting oriented again. Whenever I'm in a tough situation, I find it helps me to have a Plan B. Like, I might not be able to change jobs/move/leave a guy/whatever at the moment, but I can work towards being ready. Then if I decide to stay in the present circumstances, it's because I actively choose to, not because I'm trapped. I know college is a tough thing to afford, so that looks like it limits your options. However, I work at a university, and so I know that students have parents who divorce or lose their jobs quite frequently. The financial aid office will have dealt with this many times, and they can recalculate things and present options. I know there are no easy answers to any of this. Hang in there! Hugs.
Hi you said you haven't been to f2f meetings for awhile and it was awkward to go back. I hope you do. I understand those feelings but everyone has been in similar situations.
When he seems to be doing better, there have been many times I've suggested to my adult son (alcohol and drug issues) that he has a lot of balls to keep juggling, and that if he drops even just one of them (looses his job, gets picked up by the cops for speeding, eluding, or whatever, forgets to pay his rent, etc., etc.) it all falls apart - in other words, it's a "house of cards" situation. Of course, my loving reminders, my enabling, my begging, my pleading, my attempt at deals with God, all came to nothing - he still did what alcoholics do - drink - and that caused problems. My reality, something that I still struggle with every minute of every day to accept and put into practice, is just one leg of our 3C's slogan - "I CAN'T CONTROL IT" ! In my head I know I can't control it, but that doesn't stop my heart from thinking "Well, maybe THIS time things will be different" - and when I fail (win some, lose some), of course things are never different or they're not different for long - I guess what I'm trying to say here is that you wondering whether or not you should tell your AH that you know he's drinking, is like my situation of telling my adult son about his house of cards - what good is it gonna do? I don't know your AH, but from your description, telling him could even make things worse - possibly, a lot worse.
I'm relatively certain that you've tried to get him to stop drinking before this - has that been successful? Obviously, HE has to wanna stop and HE has to be committed to HIS sobriety - from what I've seen, that's the only way it works.
To reduce your financial exposure \ pressure, there may be less expensive colleges for your kids than where they are going now - maybe you could downsize your housing situation into something smaller and less expensive.
I'm a BIG believer in how Step 11 tells us to pray - "asking ONLY (emphasis is mine) for His will for us and the power to carry it out". It makes my prayers a lot simpler and focused, and it reminds me I don't know what's best for me and certainly not for others - I think at this point, that you gotta take care of you - FTF meetings, a sponsor, and Al Anon readings will help with taking care of you - lots of my Al Anon friends with spouse issues speak highly of this - https://www.amazon.com/Dilemma-Alcoholic-Marriage-Al-Anon-Family/dp/0910034184.
Don't lose hope !
Aloha Juni...you have received a wealth of feedback as to your condition and again I am amazed at it all...so much to think about and consider and consider trying which comes down to the point of "doing something different" which is what I did and how I started my recovery...doing something new and then what was new was the somethings I tried had been done by others in the rooms. My sponsor use to tell me "find out what is working for others and do that". It worked even though it was strange for me because I didn't think it up myself...I was duplicating the efforts of the fellowship.
I can say from experience and practice that if he is a user of physical force, anger and rage there has got to be a guideline he will consider that if he attempts it the consequences will be harsh. That is how I got off of and away from using physical force, rage and violence on my own. Yes I used fear in the past to keep control over situations I was loosing control of however learning that I would be responsible for my own negative consequences caused me to retrain. Men have many sick and sorry ways of handling fear, don't be one of them.
Keep coming back here often take what you like, leave the rest and teach us what works for you. (((((hugs)))))
Very tough on you and the kids, and you've already received tons of great & supportive replies....
"Outing" an alcoholic for drinking is not really a good use of your time or energy, as all you are ultimately doing is accusing him of something that he knows he is doing.
What IS a much better use of your time & energy - for both you and your kids - is to focus on your respective recoveries, and how you can educate yourself, and learn the best ways to deal with all of this. I assure you - false senses of denial, ignoring, and pretending against hope that things will be okay is not the healthiest of choices for any of you (no judgment there - we have ALL used denial as a significant coping tool).
So, if it takes 150lbs of effort to confront your active A that he is, well, an active A..... I'd humbly suggest that you take all 150lbs of effort (and maybe throw in another 50 for good luck) towards yourself and recovery for you & your kids. Al-Anon, MIP, books such as Getting Them Sober, volume one, by Toby Rice Drews - these will help you 100x more than simply "outing" him.
Just my two cents
Hugs
Tom