As I continue to change and grow, Im beginning to see and feel fear from my AH. I understand. This is all scary for me too. I dont know what the next step will be. Ive been working on myself privately without any discussion with him about it but he knows things are changing. He wont come right out and ask though because he knows he may not like the answer. And I wont tell...because I have no answers right now and he doesnt deal well with unknowns. So instead hell start a conversation about someone else and bring it around to us in an indirect way. Yesterday it was about his sister and some decisions shes made in her life that have lead her to where shes at now. Specifically the fact that she left a very stable, seemingly happy relationship for someone she simply found more attractive. No other reason really. It wasnt a wise decision and her life has taken a less than positive turn because of it. We discussed it for a bit then he said something like - I dont understand why people dont just appreciate what they have. He adored her. He would have given her anything she wanted. All he wanted to do was make her happy. I mean, no one is perfect. If you have someone who really loves you, why would you give that up? I know I have no intentions of ever leaving you. Youre a great woman, a wonderful wife, an incredible mother....
And then he expected me to respond in kind. I can see it when he looks at me. Hes looking for reassurance that I just cant give him. So instead I say something like - If I ever were to leave, it wouldnt be because I found someone else or because I was looking for someone better. In my mind, there are legitimate reasons for ending a marriage. But leaving a spouse for another person isnt one of them. I would never do that to you.
And I leave it at that. And hell drop it too. But then hell bring it up again in some other way a few days or a week later. Hell essentially tell me in a roundabout way that hes satisfied with our life and doesnt want anything more and he desperately wants me to feel that way too. But I cant lie to him. I cant pretend things are perfectly fine and that I would never leave him. The fact is that he knows that Im not happy. Weve discussed it at length in the past and I dont think I need to say or do things in order to remind him of that. Thats why Ive stopped asking him to change and have started changing myself instead. And without knowing what those changes will lead to I dont know how to answer him when he so obviously wants me to give him something to hold onto.
JerryF said
Feb 2, 2019
This where a sponsor came it great for me so I wouldn't have to leave my thinking and feeling up to a crazy person...myself. I could listen to and with (in the groups) others and take what I like leaving the rest. An alcoholic under the influence of the disease (wet or dry) isn't a rational feedback system. Sorry I would like to have thought something different and then that rarely ever worked out when she was still practicing the disease.
When I don't know what to say, I say that or nothing. (((())))
Iamhere said
Feb 2, 2019
(((Twinkies))) - change is hard for everyone. It took continuous practice in recovery for me to realize it's not my job to prop up anyone else. I can offer support and I can offer empathy but as hard as it is, I can't bring joy to another person. That's part of what got me crazy in the first place - expecting others to 'complete' me or make me whole or happy or .......
I agree with Jerry - a sponsor for me was absolutely necessary simply because practicing this program and working to become healthy was new territory to me and I really needed input from someone saner than I.
I am so sorry that it feels 'uncomfortable' and all that comes with change. I can say that when I began practicing what was suggested, it did get a bit worse before it got better. My A(s) did not want me to change - they enjoyed that I was the queen of the house, kept them on schedule, fed, etc. Over time, as I got better with boundaries, things improved around here.. Take good care of yourself and know you are not alone!
PosiesandPuppies said
Feb 3, 2019
I think you answered that bombshell, perfectly! It is true that no one is perfect. But only you know if the relationship gives you what you need. Sometimes, we have to explore ourselves to really know what we need - that takes time & effort on our parts. During this transition time, the relationship changes. We change. Addicts do not like change. Especially if it disrupts their substance using. So depending on the personality of your Qualifier, you will see push-back. It may be in the form of anger, physical or emotional abuse, or just constant neediness/reassurance - or a combination of all three!
The neediness/reassurance is very hard b/c it is hard to be angry at that. Many times anger can protect your heart. And oftentimes you cannot give ANY reassurances, b/c you don't even know how YOU feel at that moment!
I have been in your exact shoes in the recent past of my marriage. One day - after a lead-in neediness question - I finally had to have the "Big Talk" yet again with my spouse to state my boundary: "That while I understood no one is perfect, I am unhappy in this marriage due to your problem with alcohol use. I am working on myself to see if I can be happy with the way things are RIGHT NOW, b/c I now know that I cannot change you, I can't (nor should I try) to control you, and I know that I am not the cure for this disease. I cannot give any reassurance to you that I feel you would find acceptable, b/c I want the substance abuse to stop, and you don't right now. I am truly sorry if my Truth hurts you."
Of course 2 days later he never remembered that conversation ~sigh~
But I lived with that statement for 6 long months before things came to a head and I told him to go into treatment and get help, or child and I are leaving. It took me 1 month to get our stuff together for the move (and also I promised his family some time, so that they could try and get him in a facility). However, I stayed strong with my boundary. Kid and I would not live with this chaos beyond the last day of that month. Hardest thing I have ever done - moving out of our lovely home, packing, storing or donating all our stuff. I mourned my old life for about a year I think. Then I had to really delve into myself to understand what I could and couldn't live with in a marriage. I had to become brutally honest with MYSELF. Not always easy.
Please go easy on yourself. This is hard. The disease is a b*tch. There is a good reason that they call it a 'Disease of the Family' as well. It affects everyone.
My ESH is clouded/affected by my experience of this was a relapse for my spouse. Yes, it happened 7 years after our last family crisis (long hidden drug use that led to 90 day rehab, 1.5 month separation, and then a move back into family home). When we got back together, I had told him that for this marriage to work, I just could not go through another round of rehab for him, and losing everything, being on public assistance for me. I could not give another chance. Well, along the way, I bent that boundary in every way - I am not proud of that - to help keep the family together. In the end, he chose the bottle and I had to choose my boundary. I also had to accept that I was not happy in the marriage as it stood.
As usual, take what you like/need and leave the rest. Even though we all have similarities in our life stories due to the substance abuse of our qualifiers, we all have to walk our own paths.
I wish for you Peace, Light and Love this weekend!
JerryF said
Feb 3, 2019
P&P...what a sincere, honest and humble response. It seems as if you read my own story and then....we all have walked in each others steps. Keep coming back for those who have not heard as of yet. Thanks. ((((hugs))))
Bo said
Feb 4, 2019
Twinkies wrote:
As I continue to change and grow, Im beginning to see and feel fear from my AH. I understand. This is all scary for me too. I dont know what the next step will be. Ive been working on myself privately without any discussion with him about it but he knows things are changing. He wont come right out and ask though because he knows he may not like the answer. And I wont tell...because I have no answers right now and he doesnt deal well with unknowns. So instead hell start a conversation about someone else and bring it around to us in an indirect way. Yesterday it was about his sister and some decisions shes made in her life that have lead her to where shes at now. Specifically the fact that she left a very stable, seemingly happy relationship for someone she simply found more attractive. No other reason really. It wasnt a wise decision and her life has taken a less than positive turn because of it. We discussed it for a bit then he said something like - I dont understand why people dont just appreciate what they have. He adored her. He would have given her anything she wanted. All he wanted to do was make her happy. I mean, no one is perfect. If you have someone who really loves you, why would you give that up? I know I have no intentions of ever leaving you. Youre a great woman, a wonderful wife, an incredible mother.... And then he expected me to respond in kind. I can see it when he looks at me. Hes looking for reassurance that I just cant give him. So instead I say something like - If I ever were to leave, it wouldnt be because I found someone else or because I was looking for someone better. In my mind, there are legitimate reasons for ending a marriage. But leaving a spouse for another person isnt one of them. I would never do that to you. And I leave it at that. And hell drop it too. But then hell bring it up again in some other way a few days or a week later. Hell essentially tell me in a roundabout way that hes satisfied with our life and doesnt want anything more and he desperately wants me to feel that way too. But I cant lie to him. I cant pretend things are perfectly fine and that I would never leave him. The fact is that he knows that Im not happy. Weve discussed it at length in the past and I dont think I need to say or do things in order to remind him of that. Thats why Ive stopped asking him to change and have started changing myself instead. And without knowing what those changes will lead to I dont know how to answer him when he so obviously wants me to give him something to hold onto.
I absolutely love this post...and I admire and respect your program and how you are working it and that you are working on you. Thank you!!!
canadianguy said
Feb 4, 2019
Hi Twinkies.... we often have to remember - "why do we keep thinking sick and irrational people will behave in healthy and rational ways", in that - many active A's - your AH being one of them - appears to be focusing primarily on his #1 goal right now, which is to "stay in his disease and ensure that nothing around him changes"....
His (not so subtle) attempt to goad you into returning the reassurance doesn't feel so much like one said out of love, but more of a toxic - "promise me that even if I never address my disease you will love and stay with me forever".
Our reality is that we are in NO position to offer that to anyone at this point in time, particularly when they are active in their disease.
I read his comment as manipulative - perhaps on purpose, perhaps not (doesn't really matter)...
Just my two cents
Tom
Bo said
Feb 5, 2019
canadianguy wrote:
Hi Twinkies.... we often have to remember - "why do we keep thinking sick and irrational people will behave in healthy and rational ways", in that - many active A's - your AH being one of them - appears to be focusing primarily on his #1 goal right now, which is to "stay in his disease and ensure that nothing around him changes"....
His (not so subtle) attempt to goad you into returning the reassurance doesn't feel so much like one said out of love, but more of a toxic - "promise me that even if I never address my disease you will love and stay with me forever".
Our reality is that we are in NO position to offer that to anyone at this point in time, particularly when they are active in their disease.
I read his comment as manipulative - perhaps on purpose, perhaps not (doesn't really matter)...
Just my two cents
Tom
Excellent points!!! Thank you.
Twinkies said
Feb 6, 2019
You are very on point Canadianguy. While I dont doubt that he loves me (as much as one can truly love while in the midst of this disease anyway) what he said was most definitely self-centered and not said out of love. It was said out of fear. Sadly, thats how much of his life is conducted these days. Hes terrified of what life might be like without alcohol, terrified that he might have to feel something or might have to actually deal with his emotions. At the same time, hes terrified that if he doesnt find a better way of dealing with life, he might lose control in other areas, primarily our marriage and our family. I feel for him because Im just now facing and learning how to deal with that uncertainty myself and its scary. Its hard to let go when you dont know what tomorrow might have in store for you. But I cant hold on out of fear. Right now Im holding on because its what is best and right for myself and our children for right now.
This where a sponsor came it great for me so I wouldn't have to leave my thinking and feeling up to a crazy person...myself. I could listen to and with (in the groups) others and take what I like leaving the rest. An alcoholic under the influence of the disease (wet or dry) isn't a rational feedback system. Sorry I would like to have thought something different and then that rarely ever worked out when she was still practicing the disease.
When I don't know what to say, I say that or nothing. ((((
))))
I agree with Jerry - a sponsor for me was absolutely necessary simply because practicing this program and working to become healthy was new territory to me and I really needed input from someone saner than I.
I am so sorry that it feels 'uncomfortable' and all that comes with change. I can say that when I began practicing what was suggested, it did get a bit worse before it got better. My A(s) did not want me to change - they enjoyed that I was the queen of the house, kept them on schedule, fed, etc. Over time, as I got better with boundaries, things improved around here.. Take good care of yourself and know you are not alone!
I think you answered that bombshell, perfectly! It is true that no one is perfect. But only you know if the relationship gives you what you need. Sometimes, we have to explore ourselves to really know what we need - that takes time & effort on our parts. During this transition time, the relationship changes. We change. Addicts do not like change. Especially if it disrupts their substance using. So depending on the personality of your Qualifier, you will see push-back. It may be in the form of anger, physical or emotional abuse, or just constant neediness/reassurance - or a combination of all three!
The neediness/reassurance is very hard b/c it is hard to be angry at that. Many times anger can protect your heart. And oftentimes you cannot give ANY reassurances, b/c you don't even know how YOU feel at that moment!
I have been in your exact shoes in the recent past of my marriage. One day - after a lead-in neediness question - I finally had to have the "Big Talk" yet again with my spouse to state my boundary: "That while I understood no one is perfect, I am unhappy in this marriage due to your problem with alcohol use. I am working on myself to see if I can be happy with the way things are RIGHT NOW, b/c I now know that I cannot change you, I can't (nor should I try) to control you, and I know that I am not the cure for this disease. I cannot give any reassurance to you that I feel you would find acceptable, b/c I want the substance abuse to stop, and you don't right now. I am truly sorry if my Truth hurts you."
Of course 2 days later he never remembered that conversation ~sigh~
But I lived with that statement for 6 long months before things came to a head and I told him to go into treatment and get help, or child and I are leaving. It took me 1 month to get our stuff together for the move (and also I promised his family some time, so that they could try and get him in a facility). However, I stayed strong with my boundary. Kid and I would not live with this chaos beyond the last day of that month. Hardest thing I have ever done - moving out of our lovely home, packing, storing or donating all our stuff. I mourned my old life for about a year I think. Then I had to really delve into myself to understand what I could and couldn't live with in a marriage. I had to become brutally honest with MYSELF. Not always easy.
Please go easy on yourself. This is hard. The disease is a b*tch. There is a good reason that they call it a 'Disease of the Family' as well. It affects everyone.
My ESH is clouded/affected by my experience of this was a relapse for my spouse. Yes, it happened 7 years after our last family crisis (long hidden drug use that led to 90 day rehab, 1.5 month separation, and then a move back into family home). When we got back together, I had told him that for this marriage to work, I just could not go through another round of rehab for him, and losing everything, being on public assistance for me. I could not give another chance. Well, along the way, I bent that boundary in every way - I am not proud of that - to help keep the family together. In the end, he chose the bottle and I had to choose my boundary. I also had to accept that I was not happy in the marriage as it stood.
As usual, take what you like/need and leave the rest. Even though we all have similarities in our life stories due to the substance abuse of our qualifiers, we all have to walk our own paths.
I wish for you Peace, Light and Love this weekend!
P&P...what a sincere, honest and humble response. It seems as if you read my own story and then....we all have walked in each others steps. Keep coming back for those who have not heard as of yet. Thanks. ((((hugs))))
I absolutely love this post...and I admire and respect your program and how you are working it and that you are working on you. Thank you!!!
Hi Twinkies.... we often have to remember - "why do we keep thinking sick and irrational people will behave in healthy and rational ways", in that - many active A's - your AH being one of them - appears to be focusing primarily on his #1 goal right now, which is to "stay in his disease and ensure that nothing around him changes"....
His (not so subtle) attempt to goad you into returning the reassurance doesn't feel so much like one said out of love, but more of a toxic - "promise me that even if I never address my disease you will love and stay with me forever".
Our reality is that we are in NO position to offer that to anyone at this point in time, particularly when they are active in their disease.
I read his comment as manipulative - perhaps on purpose, perhaps not (doesn't really matter)...
Just my two cents
Tom
Excellent points!!! Thank you.