Hi, I haven't been here lately. So my daughter lives in town now so the problems are clearly visable. She can not function. She can not work and she can not keep from getting in trouble with her landlord. She jeopardizes every act of stability, every opportunity. She is as mean and sneaky as a snake (sorry snake but you DID tempt). She's 29 years old. Truly...I am dealing with watching a sort of slow death though I think it is more of a fast death. I wish she would get arrested and go to jail for 6 months, that would be awesome. Since she was 17, the only time I was not stressed was the 4 days she spent in jail.
So there are actually TWO lives wasted. Mine and hers. The choices are not pretty with someone who will not stop self destructing whether it is alcohol (present) or drugs (present) or mental illness (present though not diagnosed other than having "borderline traits"). There is nothing I have ever done to this girl that could have caused this. Yes, she had a stepdad. She acknowledges that he tried. He was not abusive. Yes, she was sexually molested but many people recover from that. I have always worked and have no trouble keeping a job. I make good money. I am kind to people. Growing up, she had everything. Our houses were always awesome. I can not be blamed for any of this. But if I stay attached and help, I will drown. I'm not sure my body can handle the stress. I am not even overweight and none of my family has diabetes but guess what? I now have high blood pressure, pre diabetes, liver disease and heart rate issues. STRESS people!!! Stress does this to the body.
This young woman who is my daughter, has expressed a death wish. She says she can see into the future and she knows she dies at 34. She says she will never overcome all her challenges (arrest record, outstanding warrant, student loan default, getting a car in order to have a choice of jobs, challenge of getting car ins after a DUI, arrests for drunk and disorderly and underage drinking). So she is giving up.
mamalioness said
Jan 22, 2019
But if I stay attached and help, I will drown. I'm not sure my body can handle the stress.
***************
YES, Rachel's mom, you are correct....stress will kill...and i am glad U R seeing that the only thing you CAN do is take care of you and LET HER GO!!!! it hurts...i have older daughter, sober drug addict who hates me for god knows what, its on and off with her and I LET GO!!!!! she's on her own now, i am gonna save ME by staying in recovery, working my program, learning to take care of ME and love ME and help ME because ME is the only one I can help
I am glad to see you posting again....Please give this al-anon a chance to show you how to not only survive this, but thrive inspite of her giving up....maybe if she hits bottom real bad, she will reach out for help, but there again, YOU can't make thsi happen...only she can......sending you support hugs
hotrod said
Jan 22, 2019
((Rachel's MOM))) I am so sorry for your pain. I have experienced the same journey with my son. Prayers for you and your family
RachelsMom said
Jan 22, 2019
You are amazing.
RachelsMom said
Jan 22, 2019
SHE IS GOING TO DIE. It doesn't matter what I do. I wish I could accept this emotionally.
I had a coworker who was troubled. He was gay (so what) and he regularly met men online and he enjoyed the thrill of the danger. I'm sure drugs were involved though I don't know which ones. I'm sure he had mental health issues though I don't know if it was just depression or bipolar or what. However, in spite of these struggles, He was one of the most compassionate CNAs, one of the most charismatic persons I have ever met and one of the most talented musicians. Before Thanksgiving this year, he disappeared. Hunters found his car deep in the woods with his wallet and cell phone in it. He has not been seen since. The missing case is cold.
He and I had some conversations about my daughter and his own Mother's anguish due to his risky lifestyle. I'm a seriously bad student of AA. I logically get it ALL but emotionally I can't deal with this loss I'm going to face.
RachelsMom said
Jan 22, 2019
I also wish I could afford my own counseling to handle this. My health insurance has too high of a deductible and I have many expense....including my car as I was just in a wreck today. oh boy...
hotrod said
Jan 22, 2019
You are not alone Alanon meetings do help Please do keep coming back
JerryF said
Jan 22, 2019
Aloha Rachel's Mom and good on you hanging around the board where you can get reassurances that come from those who have been thru the mental, emotional and spiritual wars. I've been there and done that myself and without going into "my story" I can relate to the insanity that is going on. I didn't have a clue from the start so as a consequence was "dumb as a stick" and deeply insane. Just before getting into the meetings of Al-Anon one evening I found myself outside of my car in a empty shopping center parking lot waiting for a space craft to land with solutions for me. I didn't know that I was near the end of a long life time of insanity. Only God new and I didn't know that person myself. When the space craft didn't come and land I went across the street to see if I could help the police find a burgerler in a landromat. I got my feelings hurt and I got very angry cause they turned me down.
I started the long journey to recovery in Al-Anon soon after one day at a time.
There were and are so many powerful philosophies and principles of sanity and life in the program and I had to sit down, listen, learn and practice, practice, practice daily. Only one of the principles was "Don't project" which for me explained that I was soooo sure of negative outcomes that positive outcomes would not and could not be part of my daily attitudes. I was sure my alcoholic/addict wife would die as a consequence of her addiction and even had visualizations of it. I would weep at the visualization of her death and had become primed for the phone call from family, friends, public services and who ever. During my college time and while learning about the/our disease of alcoholism one evening working with the CHIPS as a dispatcher I got a call from a highway unit asking me for information about a DUI stop and the person was my wife. "Soon", I thought "soon my expectations will be realized" and then just not then. Later she went missing and going thru all of the tragic channels we go thru trying to find the news I found her in the emergency ward of the county hospital. I went to see what condition she would be in and found her on the emergency treatment table covered with a sheet. When I went into the room she turned to face me and asked "please don't beat me again". Yes I had come close to taking her life during one past event so I was assured that of the many things which I knew could cause her demise I was one of them. She was still alive and I stopped projecting her death and turned her over to Higher Power and got the most powerful lesson regarding negative projection that lives in my life today daily.
HP did a "two for one" deal for both my wife and I. She got into recovery with a bag over her head (truthfully) keeping the bag there for 2 weeks and telling her recovery counselor and program members that "she had come to understand that if she did not allow herself to be blindly led by others, she would never make it". What she did stunned many including me because I got a living lesson on humility which my sponsor was trying to teach me was the definition of humility. She became my example and where as my sponsor and HP then asked me "could you be wrong" it caused me to continue "not projecting".
When my HP is handled the task I have no idea what the outcome can or will be.
My wife gave up seemingly like your daughter and got clean and sober...not for me...for herself. Might it be that your daughter's "give up" is really a surrender? I will pray for that possibility for she, you and all concerned; including those she might help to sobriety.
Prayers and good wishes for your and her. ((((hugs))))
-- Edited by JerryF on Tuesday 22nd of January 2019 08:18:38 PM
RachelsMom said
Jan 22, 2019
Good lesson on humililty JerryF! You are right, I'm negatively projecting and thanks for pointing that out!
I'm definitely angry at HP for having me go through this for 10+ years. What the flying h*ll does HP want me to do? How do you "give up"? What does that look like? Is that the right thing to do? I've tried to do it many times (hand her over to HP, not enable and make it only her business) but her inability to have any kind of success makes me think of her as a Cognitively Challenged Individual (what we used to call Mentally Retarded). I really think the drugs have done some serious degrading of her brain matter.
What I really wish she would do is accept help. HAHAHAHA! (No duh). If she would do that, she would go to psych services, get a diagnosis, get mental health disability, get food stamps, get Medicaid, accept a group home placement where she would learn to follow rules and she would have a community to belong to. She needs to USE resources that were created for a situation such as this because this Mama has no money saved, no 401k and no family support or resources.
Overcome said
Jan 22, 2019
RachelsMom wrote:
There is nothing I have ever done to this girl that could have caused this. Yes, she had a stepdad. She acknowledges that he tried. He was not abusive. Yes, she was sexually molested but many people recover from that.
I think maybe you might want to reconsider a step four and a steps 5-9, that being said you are not responsible for her choices from this point forward. However, this one statement alone sounds like there might be some denial and blame shifting involved on your part. To minimize incest, is most distasteful to me, and I would be asking myself why I was doing that... what is the underlying cause?
JerryF said
Jan 22, 2019
(((((Rachel's Mom))))) .the hugs are real and are sent with compassion and empathy. I understand your response. I've had similar and share the pain with you of unfulfilled thoughts and wishes and feelings. I am going thru that again now with much more experience from living this program on a daily basis.
One of the tools I have to work with comes from the culture I was born into. The Hawaiian culture is very metaphoric, we listen in pictures so I get to "see" life processes that way. When I was young and didn't get what was being passed on to me I was asked "What do we have to do...paint you a picture"? The answer really was yes though the question was usually asked with frustration and anger. Yes DAMMIT draw me a picture!!
When I was surrendering my Alcoholic/Addict to powers greater than myself I pictured me carrying my infant out into the busiest intersection in town during rush hour traffic and laying her down on the roadway and walking away. I wept in fear and loss and only sneaked 1 peek thru the tears. I left her there with a power greater than her and I. Later when I had to do it again, I did it as suggested by my sponsor. "Imagine her laying in your hands and then you raising her up above your head and then bringing your palms back down empty." In the morning my mother asked me "why were you singing, "free at last, free at last...thank God I'm free at last". I borrowed that from Martin Luther King and still I was completely free...at last. I kept my ex-wife's anonymity and didn't discuss the reason why I prayed the prayer with my mom. I learned that "practice, practice, practice" fixes my faith in the program and that it works. It also fixes recovery behavior as a priority so I don't have to run around searching and poking with insanity. I repeat what works for me because I know from experience that it would. The method hasn't failed me.
My eldest son is alcoholic/addict which includes relapsing. We went thru bad times when I divorced is addict mother and then later divorced him because the disease was claiming my children. He became the "go to" sibling as it has his eldest son and daughter in law. I do not pry or bring up the subject even in the least as I am powerless even as a former therapist. I am available. I have introduced 12X12 recovery to him and his son and then came back to attend to my own recovery. I don't have to guess anymore about what to do or do things that can't and won't work or can be very dangerous to someone's (even my) life. Alcoholism and chemical addiction are fatal diseases which can only be arrested by total abstinence. It touches everyone it comes into contact with even the many who are unaware of it. I have lost family members back before I was born. I no longer have any questions. I'm done... This program works when we work it and it is what I will do. Stick with the family and keep coming back. ((((hugs))))
Faintly Falling said
Jan 23, 2019
Hi RachelsMom
It really sounds like you have a lot of stress in all of your life. I hope you don't mind but I also found myself re-reading your line about the fact that you have never done anything to cause this but you then go on to name two potentially life changing things for your daughter (her step dad and her being sexually molested). Are there aspects of these things that you are afraid to revisit? I know of several people who went off the rails during much of their life and then later found out that there had been sexual abuse. Not everybody gets over that although some have found ways to move on. Its hard - very hard sometimes. Can you find a meeting to go to? Hang in there. X
mamalioness said
Jan 23, 2019
She acknowledges that he tried. He was not abusive. Yes, she was sexually molested but many people recover from that.
*************************************
I wasn't going to say anything about this , yesterday, when I first saw your post, but I'm a work in progress who no longer stuffs her feelings...I am going to speak the words your poor daughter is not able to say as yet......
I am a survivor of this most heinous of crimes ...and I am a "lifer" in the program because of the horrible mental illnesses I suffered because of this....I was not one of the many people who just "recover from that" ...I have learned to "move on" but the damage is still there..I have self hate issues...Trust issues....there is a hole in my heart and soul that may never be repaired...I've come far, but this awful, evil crime done against me robbed me of my innocence, potential, trust, self esteem, ability to protect myself, sense of boundaries, my hope, my joy...my RIGHT to feel safe...I will always have, perhaps, "feeling safe issues"...the ONE person who was supposed to be my protector was my PREDATOR and his wife, my other so called protecter enabled him and blamed/shamed ME....So I did not just "recover" from that...I still struggle with the residue of his crimes against me....
With the help of this program and YEARS of inner child recovery work and FINALLY seeing that I was never to blame, that my parents were entirely 100% responsible for my injuries, him for the crime...her for enabling him and invalidating me, I am finally after FIFTEEN years of hard work BEGINNING to love me, to take care of me, to see that I am NOT less then my fellow human beings who were NOT victims of this terrible crime....
I was so shame based, I only wanted one thing!!! To die!!! Because that was the only way I felt like I would ever have some peace and sense of safety...Now I want to save me and raise me up from the mentally, emotionally and spiritually dead....
I am making great progress and taking my life back, but it has been a long, hard, painful, gut wrenching journey for me..I am on anti anxiety medication for life...I suffer from GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) and also Complex PTSD from something you say "many people recover from r" ...well, most of us DON'T , without therapy (I never could afford proper therapy so 12 steps is it) and my medication to keep me stable....
I don't want to give up on me anymore...I want to fight for me....After 15 years in recovery, I NOW see I am worth fighting for...Couldn't say that for the first 10 years or so of my recovery...AND I am here for life...I accept it...I am grateful for program because I can assure you---Without my program, I would not be alive today...Guaranteed, my many suicide attempts would Not have stopped and i would be gone by now...NOW, after this many years in program, I want to LIVE and LIVE good....
Like Overcome said, I suggest you visit steps 4 and then 5 through 9...Your daughter was severely wounded by a caregiver figure.....father---step father, It does not matter...Someone in a vital position of trust and care giving VIOLATED this poor young lady and now you see the results of her wounds...
I just thought I would say what your daughter is too ill to say to you....
Please use what you can and disregard the rest......
Iamhere said
Jan 23, 2019
(((RachelsMom))) - sending you hugs, positive thoughts and prayers. I can relate to all that you've shared and the many feelings within you. There have been times in my journey with this disease and the recovery from it where I seriously wanted to throw in the towel and give up on 'me'. For me, I had to reach the lowest of lowest despair before I did surrender, but not giving up on me - instead giving up on trying to control, manage, fix, cure, etc. all people, places, things and events around me.
As a mother, there is no greater feeling of despair than watching a child self-destruct in front of us. This feeling has brought me to my knees and also what drove me to Al-Anon. I too was angry at God, and quite honestly I was angry at everything and everyone. I saw no way to get out of the hole I was in because of this disease.
Yet, I did get out of it and I am way better today. Al-Anon gave me a safe place to vent all that was swirling in my head without judgement. It gave me a place to 'dump' without advice. It gave me a place to throw it all out there and then to look at it all, in my way and in my time. What I discovered about me is that the disease warped my perceptions, my views, my feelings and even many facts. I could not get out of my own way long enough to embrace this is a disease. I have no control. I am totally powerless and I have choices to keep living in misery or try to find my joy and some level of peace.
Al-Anon gave me back little pieces of sanity, a higher power I could trust and a large group of 'others' who truly understood me and did not judge. Please know you have not caused this disease in your daughter, and you have not done anything wrong. In my journey, I did discover there were mistakes I made along the way, but I can accept this as I am an imperfect person and can own 'them' and move forward. Before Al-Anon, I couldn't even 'see' my contribution to where I was at, let alone my contribution to the chaos around me.
I had to also accept that I am not a MH expert. I don't understand depression, anxiety, bi-polar, PTSD, etc. Even my own personal experiences with one/more does not make me an expert. Al-Anon taught me it's awesome to reach out for help from any resource at any time with no limitations. For me, and it's been painful and hard, I truly had to accept that if another person has given up, there is not anything I can do...of course, I do call authorities if one is suicidal or homicidal as that's what was suggested in recovery.
I am who I am today, a working miracle in progress, only because I made a choice to do Al-Anon recovery one day at a time, for me and nobody else. Please keep coming back and know you are not alone!
el-cee said
Jan 23, 2019
Hi Rachaels mum. Im sorry your experiencing this, I just wanted to say that when you said you wished there was counselling for you but cant afford it. Alanon is better than counselling, in my opinion, in terms of its tailor made for us living with alcoholism, the disease that flows through whole families, not just the drinker. Its free, readily available and personally I have not ever came across anything so effective for living with this horrible disease. I wish you and your daughter peace.
DavidG said
Jan 23, 2019
Hi mum... I don't know you well enough to say much... but suffice it to say: I hear you...
Maresie said
Jan 24, 2019
In al.anon we have the three c's we didn't cause it, we can't control it and we can't cure it
People get sober every day Some people I have seen get sober are not exactly what I would call winners. There is no algorhythm on who will get sober and who won't. There is always hope
All the issues you talk about your daughter dealing with are workable Of course they take a long time to sort out Nevertheless I have seen many many people take on those issues and others and come to terms with them
While therapy is very helpful when you have family of origin issues there is a lot to be said for 12 step programs.
There are many many tools that can help with dealing with addiction For me al anon was and still is incredibly helpful.
The tools of al anon help is to detach, focus on ourselves and work on ways not to be consumed by addiction These rooms are full of people who have walked that path and found a lot of acceotance and peace
Acceptance about where your daughter is does not mean you are indifferent to her problems. Finding acceptance us a way to acknowledge them without being consumed with fear guilt remorse and grief
Of course we all have our own issues as well. I have abuse issues in my history and at times those issues completely consumed me. Many many survivors go through times of feeling hopeless and lost that is a pretty normal response Nevertheless there has never been a time where support and resources are available to people I would not exactly say a survivor of sexual abuse #gets over it# I think some people can come to terms with it but I dont know anyone who has done so without assistance
I have found al.anon immensely helpful in dealing with addiction. I find al anon tremendously helpful for many issues I urge you to realky embrace some of the tools and give it a shot Most people come here kicking and screaming. Eventually they find a path that helps them to live through extremely difficult times
Maresie
-- Edited by Maresie on Thursday 24th of January 2019 03:32:41 AM
lgnutah said
Jan 29, 2019
I think sometimes it is difficult in a post to say, clearly, all that is inside one's heart and mind. Because these are just words on a page, it is easy for readers of those words to sometimes mininterpret.
I think RachelsMom's message was a cry of pain, of helplessless, and a desire that everyone (as they begin their journey to self care has dealt with in confronting alcoholism/drug addiction/mental illness in a loved one) is wondering....WHAT HAPPENED TO CAUSE THIS?
I think Rachel'sMom was trying to sort through the events in her daughter's life, considering each event, and wondering if that event "caused" her daughter's addiction. She examined those life events, and wondered why her daughter wasn't resilient enough to get past those things. (Being in the medical helping profession as I believe, Rachel'sMom is, she is no stranger to human suffering).
I'm sure everyone here (before becoming more adept at using the "tools of AlAnon") floundered as they asked themselves "what could I have done to prevent this? I thought I was a good person?? Now my sense of self worth is being shattered.
And then the fear of public recrimination rears its ugly head--- if this is happening to my loved one, people I am sure will be looking askance at me and they will think I am to blame.....am I to blame?
Rachel'sMom please come back. We are here to support you.
PS I PM'ed you
lgnutah said
Feb 5, 2019
I think RachelsMom's post was misread.
I think she said "Yes, she had a stepfather" meaning some would say her daughter sought out alcohol, drugs, because she didn't have a bio-Dad.
When RM said, "Yes, he tried" (about the stepfather) I thought this meant he tried his best to parent the stepdaughter....not that he tried to molest RM's daughter.
Bo said
Feb 5, 2019
At a certain point, either we make a conscious decision to stop taking blame, guilt, trying to figure out why and how this happened, and why the alcoholic/addict is continuing to do this, and so on and so on and so on...or at a certain point, the pain we experience is just so great, so unbearable, that we just can't tolerate it any longer...and we stop. Pain is a very motivating, perhaps the most powerful motivating factor -- aside from love -- that we can experience.
Remember, this is a very insidious, decimating, enigmatic, progressive, baffling, and cunning disease...and we are supposed to figure it out? No!!! We are not.
One does not have to accept the inevitable, if in fact it is inevitable...however, that is not the issue. That is not the goal. That is not what helps make us better. This is why in alanon -- obviously not here in this forum -- the sharing, the material, the orientation, everything, is limited to the alanon program. The alanon approach. The alanon mindset and philosophy and methodology. In the opening of many meetings, it even says, if you are a member of another fellowship, please keep that membership anonymous and limit your sharing to the alanon program and approach, and so forth. That said...the goal is...not to figure it out, nor accept the inevitable...the goal is to accept what we can't do anything about it...accept that just for today...accept that one day at a time, sometimes one minute at a time...accept that it is not our will, it is not what we want, accept that it is not up to us...there is nothing we can do about the inevitable.
All the best.
Bo said
Feb 5, 2019
RM, I feel for you. I really do. I have buried a step-child. I watch his mother do everything she could. I too, did whatever I could, both when I was unhealthy and healthy. After I found recovery, in alanon, for what I was going through being married to an alcoholic/addict -- I was able to be there for him, in a healthy and supportive way, BUT NOT be on the roller coaster with him every single minute or day, and not be a partner in the drama, chaos, havoc, and turmoil.
I was there for him, and happy with the role I was willing to play and did play. In the end, it didn't matter. I could have lived with him 24/7, jail, rehabs, detox, IOP, meetings, you name it. Didn't matter. He did not want to get better. He did not think he had a problem. He did not want to quit, get clean and sober, live a life of recovery.
I didn't want to accept the inevitable. I didn't want to figure it out. What I did...I found acceptance, in that there was nothing I could do about the inevitable. Big difference. That's why most people truly don't get acceptance.
RachelsMom said
Feb 19, 2019
Yes, you got it. I was trying to say that Rachel's bio dad and I were divorced and I remarried. Stepdad was not abusive, it was MY father who was the molester. And yes, I lived through it with my father. I FUNCTION. I agree that it's not fair to say that one person (daughter) should manage sexual abuse like her mother (me]. We all internalize differently, we all have different ways to handle pain and dysfunction and we all have world views. Maybe my daughter can't see the reasoning of living in a world that is so cruel. I have had my issues with this, too. It was mentioned in the thread that I work in healthcare, yup. I see the best and worst of humanity, for sure. But I did not become a nurse until 2012 so it's fairly new to me and it has given me new perspective....especially in this current job (since 2016) where I care for the less desirable members of society who are aging. Some of them remind me of my daughter. Their world view doesn't seem to extend itself past their own selves...they are so self centered. Here's an example: one pt said (in front of another), "I just wish I would die" and that other patient said, "Imagine how that makes me feel when I would just love to be healthy." NO EMPATHY!!! Omg, lol. That second patient turned it around to HERSELF because that's her world view! Stunning really. When daughter calls me, she rants and rants and if I attempt to interrupt to say something, she talks over me and if I get louder, she gets louder. She doesn't call to hear anything. I can walk away and do something else and she's still talking. I don't know how to break through...if I actually try to make it about how it makes me fell that she calls to have a monologue, she will turn it around to, "you never listen to me" or "you don't care" or "stop trying to make me like you" or some such nonsense.
Anyway...daughter has been such a pain in the butt to her rental agency that they are willing to let her out of the lease if she will just GO AWAY. lol So she is moving in with an ex boyfriend. Yeah, that's gonna work. He lives about an hour away so maybe I will have a brief reprieve. I wish we would have accomplished SOMETHING while she was here near me. She doesn't understand why she didn't receive Medicaid or food stamps when she applied but she doesn't have a mailbox. She can't accept mail at her address so they couldn't very well verify her address and closed the application. She doesn't understand this for some reason.
As far as introspection goes...maybe I didn't adjust so well following my abusive childhood. I've been married three times. I can't see myself in a romantic relationship of any kind anymore. I'm not sure how to move forward in my life. I've got the youngest daughter living with me finishing college and I'm happy to provide her with the opportunity to do that. She says she will always be willing to turn it around and provide me with housing. Lol, well, we will see down the road. I find meaning in my work because these patients are largely unlovable but I love them. If I can get one of them to stop self focus for one minute and laugh, I did a good thing. We are always doing silly things to help them feel close to us and accepted. Some of them are so hard to like!!! Yesterday, one of them needed to put the focus on herself and took a butter knife and pressed it against her wrist and made a red mark. She said, "I hope I don't go further." *rolleyes* So that created a mound of extra paperwork for me and 15 minute status checks for the rest of my shift. This is the one who lays down on the floor and calls it a fall so I have more paperwork or breast feeds her baby doll on the front porch so visitors see and I have to do extra documentation. Lawd have mercy! I guess that the way I have to deal with sadness, is to stop the self focus and help someone else. Because as bad as I think I have it sometimes, I live in the USA. I am a single woman who is "allowed" to own a home and feel safe in it! I have clean water! I didn't have to sell a daughter into marriage to survive, I'm not in fear of my life or of being raped daily. I have a job to add meaning to my life. My daughters have opportunities to be an equal in the work world and socially, too. Is that not amazing?
Iamhere said
Feb 19, 2019
Hey there Rachelsmom - you've been on my mind and (all) in my prayers. I am sorry for what you and your daughter went through at the hands of your father. I can't relate to that, but can offer a long distance (((hug))). What I do know and believe is that all of us who have gone through traumatic life experiences are miracles when we keep moving forward. That's not to say there won't ever be back-stepping, but we possess that desire to succeed in spite of what we've been through, gone through, experienced, etc.
For those who get 'stuck', there is something blocking them. My son and your daughter sound very much alike in their ways, attitudes, outlooks, etc. Like you, I waffle between extreme frustration, fear, sadness, acceptance, etc. For me, watching a child you gave birth to self-destruct just sucks the life out of us if/when we allow it. Some days are better than others. The good days are more common as I stay close to recovery. As much as I do know about my son's history, I suspect there is way more I don't know. He's got some demons that are too large for him, and way too much for me. And, for those events that we align on, we are very different in how we act, react, handle, heal, deal. My son is largely stuck in a 'glass 1/4 full' state currently and there is nothing I can do (but pray and give him to God) to help him view things differently.
I love that your share ended with a gratitude list! More often than not, when I take a good honest look at where I am, I do have much to be grateful for! It's good to see you again - keep coming back....(Your job sounds challenging and rewarding!!)
mamalioness said
Feb 19, 2019
hey Rachel, thanks for your share..I was one who "took issue" because I thought you were minimizing incest and I got triggered , then breathed deeply and still wanted to post on your thread and I hope I was humane about it...yea, I took you wrong, I think...and you are right...ALL of us who have had that kind of special hell, deal/heal/work our program different....with some issues, I would give me an A- (progress not perfection, lol) and for some??? a C- because I am just slower in some things overcoming and doing ok with others....the bottom line is that I have to do my program, what works for me, and I'm open, honest and willing and will try ANYthing that makes sense....I'm doing EFT therapy on me along with the CBT also self imposed and I see me inching forward..but I slip and slide, also, the sum total is 2 steps fore...1 step back...but I still gain.....
a year ago, I would have gone ape doo doo over your one line on your thread....glad I did not do that...I just tried to speak for your daughter in that some folks , depending on (how much support they got?? therapy??? how long it went on??? did ANYONE feel safe for me to go to??? ) I had EVERYTHING against me coping with my situation...mother hated and blamed me and actually "sold" me to him for her bottle of whiskey....older siblings thought there "must be something wrong with this child for this evil to befall her" oh yea, I had a "wonderful" family and it went on ALL through my teenage years....ALL of those formulative years.....so yea, I had almost zero chance of even surviving, much less escaping a straight jacket in a mental hospital....I had a break down in 1970....I drove home from work and found myself 3 days later at the clinic, being drugged into slowing my racing heart, etc., (don' remember much) but NOONE wanted to get me into therapy....OH NO!!! Can't let the family secret get out, so lets just let this child slowly die from untreated GAD off the charts and PTSD.....
well??? i was resourceful as one could be as sick as I was...I drank beer and partied...self medicated....LUCKILY I did not have that genetic tendency to get hooked....I was LUCKY....but yea, I was a party animal till I got into recovery 15 years ago when I decided "ENOUGH" I'm gonna deal with this...face this...do whatever I gotta do to STOP wanting to die....to get out of self and LIVE and SHARE this life with safe others...
my reocvery in Al-anon and ACA was NOT easy by any stretch of the imagination...the first time I cried, I went 12 hours or so, straight...I cried so much, (I was alone, too...YIKES) I dehydrated...I could not pee, I was so dehydrated...so I called in work and told my boos I just could not make it...and I told her what happened as she was such a supporter of me...i drank gator aide and reeeeely thought I might be "too sick" to go this recovery stuff....in other words, the pain/grief/anger was so scary to me, I was willing to just go back to "numbing it" then help me out of this world when I was ready
but something nudged me on to STAY.....keep coming back......the love and validation, acceptance, BELIEVING ME, loving me inspite of the fact that I hated me deep inside.....I had to "borrow" others love for me...till I could slowly "grow" some love for myself......
yea, my road has been rocky...I was a "problem child" here on thsi board and got kicked out some years back and I would just try, like the moth to the flame, to come back and I would be allowed to come back and I would TRY AGAIN....EACH time, each season, each milestone, I grew and began to recover, reclaim my life...establish my birthright to be happy, safe, secure, healthy, have a livable/bearable life....
yea, its hard , work is slow, lots of bad crap hit me this past 2 years has been a lesson in torture, but I am HERE and I am workign on ME and NOT giving up on ME...I am NOT gonna let the monster /freak beat me....I wont' let him win....come hell or high water, I am gonna keep moving forward, keep progressing till I "take the dirt nap"
I most likely willl never completely recover as there was just too much damage done to me...programming me , setting me up for his evil pleasure....HER abandonment of me... Yea, I may never get all of me back, but I'm gonna give it one hell of a try.....
thanks for letting me "hijack" yoru thread....Hope it was OK....and I thank you for clarifying some stuff that had previously felt like dismissal for such a wicked tragedy for ANY child........
Choriste said
Feb 20, 2019
RachelsMom wrote:
I guess that the way I have to deal with sadness, is to stop the self focus and help someone else. Because as bad as I think I have it sometimes, I live in the USA. I am a single woman who is "allowed" to own a home and feel safe in it! I have clean water! I didn't have to sell a daughter into marriage to survive, I'm not in fear of my life or of being raped daily. I have a job to add meaning to my life. My daughters have opportunities to be an equal in the work world and socially, too. Is that not amazing?
I love this so much. :)
RachelsMom said
Feb 20, 2019
Choriste-thanks! I love it, too! I wish my daughter could get past the injustices done (and I don't mean to minimize them). Continuing on in bitterness and anger only holds a person back. Yes, there has to be grieving and everyone does it in their own way and time, I know.
Hi there Mamalioness! I absolutely love your name. You keep fighting girl! Fighting forward I mean! (Grrrrrowl!)
RachelsMom said
Feb 20, 2019
Hello again Iamhere! I am happy to see my old friends again! Thanks for all your support and wisdom everyone. Bo...good points and I reread the perspectives that I had not ever considered. Every post is a blessing to me, really.
I will just tell a short short story. Last night when I was at work, I had a patient that I only had for 2 days so I didn't yet know her patterns, her baseline behavior with her diagnoses. She has multiple serious illnesses but the one that was concerning me was her breathing. It was very labored and I tried all the tricks/medications to improve it with little success. Trying to make it short, here, but I called the family to see what they wanted to do. They came in and began to argue because some wanted to send her to the hospital (that was my vote and the Dr had not agreed with me) and other family members wanted to give it some time and let her stay put. They yelled at each other, belittled each other, egos were in full force, there was crying. It was so sad. In the end, she was sent to the hospital and they put her on a ventilator. Here was a family UNITED in their love for grandma but not on the best way to show it. To me, growing up and seeing how other families have pain, cause pain, deal with pain...it is so eye opening! We love so imperfectly. That's my point after this story, lol. I forgive myself for not loving perfectly. I'm doing it as right as I can!
RachelsMom said
Feb 20, 2019
JerryF....your experience with your wife is truly incredible. Thanks for that insight. Wow.
JerryF said
Feb 20, 2019
Glad you saw the picture Rachel's Mom. The journey went on as my Higher Power allowed me to participate without touching or trying to direct and then when she, not me, decided to enter recovery HP used it to give me a definition of humility and trust I had never imagined. She got into recovery and for the first two weeks did it blindly with a bag over her head telling the others, "I have come to understand that if I will not allow myself to be led blindly thru this program...I will not make it". That takes my breath away and reinforces lessons regarding trust and commitment.
I can picture your daughter taking the same journey and have held her up to HP. ((((Hugs))))
Iamhere said
Feb 21, 2019
(((RachelsMom))) - your learning from your experience with the family of your patient made my heart smile! I so agree with you that we are imperfect persons doing/loving the best we can. We just never know what miracle will/can come next. Keep doing you, one day at a time!
mamalioness said
Feb 21, 2019
Rachels mom, I too, HOPE and (tho I don't really believe in prayer) I send you AND daughter healing and light energy...I sure hope she can work through the bitterness and rage and hate...(boooy can I relate to all of that...I'm getting past it but it is slow going) I love your shares about your patients.....You are a hell of a good lady to have all this goin on in your life and you got love left in your heart to show your patients...
Thanks for not being mad at me re: my "speaking for daughter" post I did...I always check my motives and I wrote that out of REAL desire to just share with you, what she might be thinking/feeling and I wish i could give her a hug and say "hey!! I believe you and I hear you and can relate to you" Sure hope she can find her footing and get her life back...You too, nice lady!!! and I think you are working a strong program....Keep coming back and sharing!!! You do have a lot of support from some really caring people.......
RachelsMom said
Feb 22, 2019
JerryF wrote:
I can picture your daughter taking the same journey and have held her up to HP. ((((Hugs))))
Hi, I haven't been here lately. So my daughter lives in town now so the problems are clearly visable. She can not function. She can not work and she can not keep from getting in trouble with her landlord. She jeopardizes every act of stability, every opportunity. She is as mean and sneaky as a snake (sorry snake but you DID tempt). She's 29 years old. Truly...I am dealing with watching a sort of slow death though I think it is more of a fast death. I wish she would get arrested and go to jail for 6 months, that would be awesome. Since she was 17, the only time I was not stressed was the 4 days she spent in jail.
So there are actually TWO lives wasted. Mine and hers. The choices are not pretty with someone who will not stop self destructing whether it is alcohol (present) or drugs (present) or mental illness (present though not diagnosed other than having "borderline traits"). There is nothing I have ever done to this girl that could have caused this. Yes, she had a stepdad. She acknowledges that he tried. He was not abusive. Yes, she was sexually molested but many people recover from that. I have always worked and have no trouble keeping a job. I make good money. I am kind to people. Growing up, she had everything. Our houses were always awesome. I can not be blamed for any of this. But if I stay attached and help, I will drown. I'm not sure my body can handle the stress. I am not even overweight and none of my family has diabetes but guess what? I now have high blood pressure, pre diabetes, liver disease and heart rate issues. STRESS people!!! Stress does this to the body.
This young woman who is my daughter, has expressed a death wish. She says she can see into the future and she knows she dies at 34. She says she will never overcome all her challenges (arrest record, outstanding warrant, student loan default, getting a car in order to have a choice of jobs, challenge of getting car ins after a DUI, arrests for drunk and disorderly and underage drinking). So she is giving up.
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YES, Rachel's mom, you are correct....stress will kill...and i am glad U R seeing that the only thing you CAN do is take care of you and LET HER GO!!!! it hurts...i have older daughter, sober drug addict who hates me for god knows what, its on and off with her and I LET GO!!!!! she's on her own now, i am gonna save ME by staying in recovery, working my program, learning to take care of ME and love ME and help ME because ME is the only one I can help
I am glad to see you posting again....Please give this al-anon a chance to show you how to not only survive this, but thrive inspite of her giving up....maybe if she hits bottom real bad, she will reach out for help, but there again, YOU can't make thsi happen...only she can......sending you support hugs
You are amazing.
SHE IS GOING TO DIE. It doesn't matter what I do. I wish I could accept this emotionally.
I had a coworker who was troubled. He was gay (so what) and he regularly met men online and he enjoyed the thrill of the danger. I'm sure drugs were involved though I don't know which ones. I'm sure he had mental health issues though I don't know if it was just depression or bipolar or what. However, in spite of these struggles, He was one of the most compassionate CNAs, one of the most charismatic persons I have ever met and one of the most talented musicians. Before Thanksgiving this year, he disappeared. Hunters found his car deep in the woods with his wallet and cell phone in it. He has not been seen since. The missing case is cold.
He and I had some conversations about my daughter and his own Mother's anguish due to his risky lifestyle. I'm a seriously bad student of AA. I logically get it ALL but emotionally I can't deal with this loss I'm going to face.
Aloha Rachel's Mom and good on you hanging around the board where you can get reassurances that come from those who have been thru the mental, emotional and spiritual wars. I've been there and done that myself and without going into "my story" I can relate to the insanity that is going on. I didn't have a clue from the start so as a consequence was "dumb as a stick" and deeply insane. Just before getting into the meetings of Al-Anon one evening I found myself outside of my car in a empty shopping center parking lot waiting for a space craft to land with solutions for me. I didn't know that I was near the end of a long life time of insanity. Only God new and I didn't know that person myself. When the space craft didn't come and land I went across the street to see if I could help the police find a burgerler in a landromat. I got my feelings hurt and I got very angry cause they turned me down.
I started the long journey to recovery in Al-Anon soon after one day at a time.
There were and are so many powerful philosophies and principles of sanity and life in the program and I had to sit down, listen, learn and practice, practice, practice daily. Only one of the principles was "Don't project" which for me explained that I was soooo sure of negative outcomes that positive outcomes would not and could not be part of my daily attitudes. I was sure my alcoholic/addict wife would die as a consequence of her addiction and even had visualizations of it. I would weep at the visualization of her death and had become primed for the phone call from family, friends, public services and who ever. During my college time and while learning about the/our disease of alcoholism one evening working with the CHIPS as a dispatcher I got a call from a highway unit asking me for information about a DUI stop and the person was my wife. "Soon", I thought "soon my expectations will be realized" and then just not then. Later she went missing and going thru all of the tragic channels we go thru trying to find the news I found her in the emergency ward of the county hospital. I went to see what condition she would be in and found her on the emergency treatment table covered with a sheet. When I went into the room she turned to face me and asked "please don't beat me again". Yes I had come close to taking her life during one past event so I was assured that of the many things which I knew could cause her demise I was one of them. She was still alive and I stopped projecting her death and turned her over to Higher Power and got the most powerful lesson regarding negative projection that lives in my life today daily.
HP did a "two for one" deal for both my wife and I. She got into recovery with a bag over her head (truthfully) keeping the bag there for 2 weeks and telling her recovery counselor and program members that "she had come to understand that if she did not allow herself to be blindly led by others, she would never make it". What she did stunned many including me because I got a living lesson on humility which my sponsor was trying to teach me was the definition of humility. She became my example and where as my sponsor and HP then asked me "could you be wrong" it caused me to continue "not projecting".
When my HP is handled the task I have no idea what the outcome can or will be.
My wife gave up seemingly like your daughter and got clean and sober...not for me...for herself. Might it be that your daughter's "give up" is really a surrender? I will pray for that possibility for she, you and all concerned; including those she might help to sobriety.
Prayers and good wishes for your and her. ((((hugs))))
-- Edited by JerryF on Tuesday 22nd of January 2019 08:18:38 PM
I'm definitely angry at HP for having me go through this for 10+ years. What the flying h*ll does HP want me to do? How do you "give up"? What does that look like? Is that the right thing to do? I've tried to do it many times (hand her over to HP, not enable and make it only her business) but her inability to have any kind of success makes me think of her as a Cognitively Challenged Individual (what we used to call Mentally Retarded). I really think the drugs have done some serious degrading of her brain matter.
What I really wish she would do is accept help. HAHAHAHA! (No duh). If she would do that, she would go to psych services, get a diagnosis, get mental health disability, get food stamps, get Medicaid, accept a group home placement where she would learn to follow rules and she would have a community to belong to. She needs to USE resources that were created for a situation such as this because this Mama has no money saved, no 401k and no family support or resources.
I think maybe you might want to reconsider a step four and a steps 5-9, that being said you are not responsible for her choices from this point forward. However, this one statement alone sounds like there might be some denial and blame shifting involved on your part. To minimize incest, is most distasteful to me, and I would be asking myself why I was doing that... what is the underlying cause?
(((((Rachel's Mom))))) .the hugs are real and are sent with compassion and empathy. I understand your response. I've had similar and share the pain with you of unfulfilled thoughts and wishes and feelings. I am going thru that again now with much more experience from living this program on a daily basis.
One of the tools I have to work with comes from the culture I was born into. The Hawaiian culture is very metaphoric, we listen in pictures so I get to "see" life processes that way. When I was young and didn't get what was being passed on to me I was asked "What do we have to do...paint you a picture"? The answer really was yes though the question was usually asked with frustration and anger. Yes DAMMIT draw me a picture!!
When I was surrendering my Alcoholic/Addict to powers greater than myself I pictured me carrying my infant out into the busiest intersection in town during rush hour traffic and laying her down on the roadway and walking away. I wept in fear and loss and only sneaked 1 peek thru the tears. I left her there with a power greater than her and I. Later when I had to do it again, I did it as suggested by my sponsor. "Imagine her laying in your hands and then you raising her up above your head and then bringing your palms back down empty." In the morning my mother asked me "why were you singing, "free at last, free at last...thank God I'm free at last". I borrowed that from Martin Luther King and still I was completely free...at last. I kept my ex-wife's anonymity and didn't discuss the reason why I prayed the prayer with my mom. I learned that "practice, practice, practice" fixes my faith in the program and that it works. It also fixes recovery behavior as a priority so I don't have to run around searching and poking with insanity. I repeat what works for me because I know from experience that it would. The method hasn't failed me.
My eldest son is alcoholic/addict which includes relapsing. We went thru bad times when I divorced is addict mother and then later divorced him because the disease was claiming my children. He became the "go to" sibling as it has his eldest son and daughter in law. I do not pry or bring up the subject even in the least as I am powerless even as a former therapist. I am available. I have introduced 12X12 recovery to him and his son and then came back to attend to my own recovery. I don't have to guess anymore about what to do or do things that can't and won't work or can be very dangerous to someone's (even my) life. Alcoholism and chemical addiction are fatal diseases which can only be arrested by total abstinence. It touches everyone it comes into contact with even the many who are unaware of it. I have lost family members back before I was born. I no longer have any questions. I'm done... This program works when we work it and it is what I will do. Stick with the family and keep coming back. ((((hugs))))
Hi RachelsMom
It really sounds like you have a lot of stress in all of your life. I hope you don't mind but I also found myself re-reading your line about the fact that you have never done anything to cause this but you then go on to name two potentially life changing things for your daughter (her step dad and her being sexually molested). Are there aspects of these things that you are afraid to revisit? I know of several people who went off the rails during much of their life and then later found out that there had been sexual abuse. Not everybody gets over that although some have found ways to move on. Its hard - very hard sometimes. Can you find a meeting to go to? Hang in there. X
*************************************
I wasn't going to say anything about this , yesterday, when I first saw your post, but I'm a work in progress who no longer stuffs her feelings...I am going to speak the words your poor daughter is not able to say as yet......
I am a survivor of this most heinous of crimes ...and I am a "lifer" in the program because of the horrible mental illnesses I suffered because of this....I was not one of the many people who just "recover from that" ...I have learned to "move on" but the damage is still there..I have self hate issues...Trust issues....there is a hole in my heart and soul that may never be repaired...I've come far, but this awful, evil crime done against me robbed me of my innocence, potential, trust, self esteem, ability to protect myself, sense of boundaries, my hope, my joy...my RIGHT to feel safe...I will always have, perhaps, "feeling safe issues"...the ONE person who was supposed to be my protector was my PREDATOR and his wife, my other so called protecter enabled him and blamed/shamed ME....So I did not just "recover" from that...I still struggle with the residue of his crimes against me....
With the help of this program and YEARS of inner child recovery work and FINALLY seeing that I was never to blame, that my parents were entirely 100% responsible for my injuries, him for the crime...her for enabling him and invalidating me, I am finally after FIFTEEN years of hard work BEGINNING to love me, to take care of me, to see that I am NOT less then my fellow human beings who were NOT victims of this terrible crime....
I was so shame based, I only wanted one thing!!! To die!!! Because that was the only way I felt like I would ever have some peace and sense of safety...Now I want to save me and raise me up from the mentally, emotionally and spiritually dead....
I am making great progress and taking my life back, but it has been a long, hard, painful, gut wrenching journey for me..I am on anti anxiety medication for life...I suffer from GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) and also Complex PTSD from something you say "many people recover from r" ...well, most of us DON'T , without therapy (I never could afford proper therapy so 12 steps is it) and my medication to keep me stable....
I don't want to give up on me anymore...I want to fight for me....After 15 years in recovery, I NOW see I am worth fighting for...Couldn't say that for the first 10 years or so of my recovery...AND I am here for life...I accept it...I am grateful for program because I can assure you---Without my program, I would not be alive today...Guaranteed, my many suicide attempts would Not have stopped and i would be gone by now...NOW, after this many years in program, I want to LIVE and LIVE good....
Like Overcome said, I suggest you visit steps 4 and then 5 through 9...Your daughter was severely wounded by a caregiver figure.....father---step father, It does not matter...Someone in a vital position of trust and care giving VIOLATED this poor young lady and now you see the results of her wounds...
I just thought I would say what your daughter is too ill to say to you....
Please use what you can and disregard the rest......
As a mother, there is no greater feeling of despair than watching a child self-destruct in front of us. This feeling has brought me to my knees and also what drove me to Al-Anon. I too was angry at God, and quite honestly I was angry at everything and everyone. I saw no way to get out of the hole I was in because of this disease.
Yet, I did get out of it and I am way better today. Al-Anon gave me a safe place to vent all that was swirling in my head without judgement. It gave me a place to 'dump' without advice. It gave me a place to throw it all out there and then to look at it all, in my way and in my time. What I discovered about me is that the disease warped my perceptions, my views, my feelings and even many facts. I could not get out of my own way long enough to embrace this is a disease. I have no control. I am totally powerless and I have choices to keep living in misery or try to find my joy and some level of peace.
Al-Anon gave me back little pieces of sanity, a higher power I could trust and a large group of 'others' who truly understood me and did not judge. Please know you have not caused this disease in your daughter, and you have not done anything wrong. In my journey, I did discover there were mistakes I made along the way, but I can accept this as I am an imperfect person and can own 'them' and move forward. Before Al-Anon, I couldn't even 'see' my contribution to where I was at, let alone my contribution to the chaos around me.
I had to also accept that I am not a MH expert. I don't understand depression, anxiety, bi-polar, PTSD, etc. Even my own personal experiences with one/more does not make me an expert. Al-Anon taught me it's awesome to reach out for help from any resource at any time with no limitations. For me, and it's been painful and hard, I truly had to accept that if another person has given up, there is not anything I can do...of course, I do call authorities if one is suicidal or homicidal as that's what was suggested in recovery.
I am who I am today, a working miracle in progress, only because I made a choice to do Al-Anon recovery one day at a time, for me and nobody else. Please keep coming back and know you are not alone!
Hi mum... I don't know you well enough to say much... but suffice it to say: I hear you...
In al.anon we have the three c's we didn't cause it, we can't control it and we can't cure it
People get sober every day Some people I have seen get sober are not exactly what I would call winners. There is no algorhythm on who will get sober and who won't. There is always hope
All the issues you talk about your daughter dealing with are workable Of course they take a long time to sort out Nevertheless I have seen many many people take on those issues and others and come to terms with them
While therapy is very helpful when you have family of origin issues there is a lot to be said for 12 step programs.
There are many many tools that can help with dealing with addiction For me al anon was and still is incredibly helpful.
The tools of al anon help is to detach, focus on ourselves and work on ways not to be consumed by addiction These rooms are full of people who have walked that path and found a lot of acceotance and peace
Acceptance about where your daughter is does not mean you are indifferent to her problems. Finding acceptance us a way to acknowledge them without being consumed with fear guilt remorse and grief
Of course we all have our own issues as well. I have abuse issues in my history and at times those issues completely consumed me. Many many survivors go through times of feeling hopeless and lost that is a pretty normal response Nevertheless there has never been a time where support and resources are available to people I would not exactly say a survivor of sexual abuse #gets over it# I think some people can come to terms with it but I dont know anyone who has done so without assistance
I have found al.anon immensely helpful in dealing with addiction. I find al anon tremendously helpful for many issues I urge you to realky embrace some of the tools and give it a shot Most people come here kicking and screaming. Eventually they find a path that helps them to live through extremely difficult times
Maresie
-- Edited by Maresie on Thursday 24th of January 2019 03:32:41 AM
I think RachelsMom's message was a cry of pain, of helplessless, and a desire that everyone (as they begin their journey to self care has dealt with in confronting alcoholism/drug addiction/mental illness in a loved one) is wondering....WHAT HAPPENED TO CAUSE THIS?
I think Rachel'sMom was trying to sort through the events in her daughter's life, considering each event, and wondering if that event "caused" her daughter's addiction. She examined those life events, and wondered why her daughter wasn't resilient enough to get past those things. (Being in the medical helping profession as I believe, Rachel'sMom is, she is no stranger to human suffering).
I'm sure everyone here (before becoming more adept at using the "tools of AlAnon") floundered as they asked themselves "what could I have done to prevent this? I thought I was a good person?? Now my sense of self worth is being shattered.
And then the fear of public recrimination rears its ugly head--- if this is happening to my loved one, people I am sure will be looking askance at me and they will think I am to blame.....am I to blame?
Rachel'sMom please come back. We are here to support you.
PS I PM'ed you
Remember, this is a very insidious, decimating, enigmatic, progressive, baffling, and cunning disease...and we are supposed to figure it out? No!!! We are not.
One does not have to accept the inevitable, if in fact it is inevitable...however, that is not the issue. That is not the goal. That is not what helps make us better. This is why in alanon -- obviously not here in this forum -- the sharing, the material, the orientation, everything, is limited to the alanon program. The alanon approach. The alanon mindset and philosophy and methodology. In the opening of many meetings, it even says, if you are a member of another fellowship, please keep that membership anonymous and limit your sharing to the alanon program and approach, and so forth. That said...the goal is...not to figure it out, nor accept the inevitable...the goal is to accept what we can't do anything about it...accept that just for today...accept that one day at a time, sometimes one minute at a time...accept that it is not our will, it is not what we want, accept that it is not up to us...there is nothing we can do about the inevitable.
All the best.
RM, I feel for you. I really do. I have buried a step-child. I watch his mother do everything she could. I too, did whatever I could, both when I was unhealthy and healthy. After I found recovery, in alanon, for what I was going through being married to an alcoholic/addict -- I was able to be there for him, in a healthy and supportive way, BUT NOT be on the roller coaster with him every single minute or day, and not be a partner in the drama, chaos, havoc, and turmoil.
I was there for him, and happy with the role I was willing to play and did play. In the end, it didn't matter. I could have lived with him 24/7, jail, rehabs, detox, IOP, meetings, you name it. Didn't matter. He did not want to get better. He did not think he had a problem. He did not want to quit, get clean and sober, live a life of recovery.
I didn't want to accept the inevitable. I didn't want to figure it out. What I did...I found acceptance, in that there was nothing I could do about the inevitable. Big difference. That's why most people truly don't get acceptance.
Yes, you got it. I was trying to say that Rachel's bio dad and I were divorced and I remarried. Stepdad was not abusive, it was MY father who was the molester. And yes, I lived through it with my father. I FUNCTION. I agree that it's not fair to say that one person (daughter) should manage sexual abuse like her mother (me]. We all internalize differently, we all have different ways to handle pain and dysfunction and we all have world views. Maybe my daughter can't see the reasoning of living in a world that is so cruel. I have had my issues with this, too. It was mentioned in the thread that I work in healthcare, yup. I see the best and worst of humanity, for sure. But I did not become a nurse until 2012 so it's fairly new to me and it has given me new perspective....especially in this current job (since 2016) where I care for the less desirable members of society who are aging. Some of them remind me of my daughter. Their world view doesn't seem to extend itself past their own selves...they are so self centered. Here's an example: one pt said (in front of another), "I just wish I would die" and that other patient said, "Imagine how that makes me feel when I would just love to be healthy." NO EMPATHY!!! Omg, lol. That second patient turned it around to HERSELF because that's her world view! Stunning really. When daughter calls me, she rants and rants and if I attempt to interrupt to say something, she talks over me and if I get louder, she gets louder. She doesn't call to hear anything. I can walk away and do something else and she's still talking. I don't know how to break through...if I actually try to make it about how it makes me fell that she calls to have a monologue, she will turn it around to, "you never listen to me" or "you don't care" or "stop trying to make me like you" or some such nonsense.
Anyway...daughter has been such a pain in the butt to her rental agency that they are willing to let her out of the lease if she will just GO AWAY. lol So she is moving in with an ex boyfriend. Yeah, that's gonna work. He lives about an hour away so maybe I will have a brief reprieve. I wish we would have accomplished SOMETHING while she was here near me. She doesn't understand why she didn't receive Medicaid or food stamps when she applied but she doesn't have a mailbox. She can't accept mail at her address so they couldn't very well verify her address and closed the application. She doesn't understand this for some reason.
As far as introspection goes...maybe I didn't adjust so well following my abusive childhood. I've been married three times. I can't see myself in a romantic relationship of any kind anymore. I'm not sure how to move forward in my life. I've got the youngest daughter living with me finishing college and I'm happy to provide her with the opportunity to do that. She says she will always be willing to turn it around and provide me with housing. Lol, well, we will see down the road. I find meaning in my work because these patients are largely unlovable but I love them. If I can get one of them to stop self focus for one minute and laugh, I did a good thing. We are always doing silly things to help them feel close to us and accepted. Some of them are so hard to like!!! Yesterday, one of them needed to put the focus on herself and took a butter knife and pressed it against her wrist and made a red mark. She said, "I hope I don't go further." *rolleyes* So that created a mound of extra paperwork for me and 15 minute status checks for the rest of my shift. This is the one who lays down on the floor and calls it a fall so I have more paperwork or breast feeds her baby doll on the front porch so visitors see and I have to do extra documentation. Lawd have mercy! I guess that the way I have to deal with sadness, is to stop the self focus and help someone else. Because as bad as I think I have it sometimes, I live in the USA. I am a single woman who is "allowed" to own a home and feel safe in it! I have clean water! I didn't have to sell a daughter into marriage to survive, I'm not in fear of my life or of being raped daily. I have a job to add meaning to my life. My daughters have opportunities to be an equal in the work world and socially, too. Is that not amazing?
For those who get 'stuck', there is something blocking them. My son and your daughter sound very much alike in their ways, attitudes, outlooks, etc. Like you, I waffle between extreme frustration, fear, sadness, acceptance, etc. For me, watching a child you gave birth to self-destruct just sucks the life out of us if/when we allow it. Some days are better than others. The good days are more common as I stay close to recovery. As much as I do know about my son's history, I suspect there is way more I don't know. He's got some demons that are too large for him, and way too much for me. And, for those events that we align on, we are very different in how we act, react, handle, heal, deal. My son is largely stuck in a 'glass 1/4 full' state currently and there is nothing I can do (but pray and give him to God) to help him view things differently.
I love that your share ended with a gratitude list! More often than not, when I take a good honest look at where I am, I do have much to be grateful for! It's good to see you again - keep coming back....(Your job sounds challenging and rewarding!!)
a year ago, I would have gone ape doo doo over your one line on your thread....glad I did not do that...I just tried to speak for your daughter in that some folks , depending on (how much support they got?? therapy??? how long it went on??? did ANYONE feel safe for me to go to??? ) I had EVERYTHING against me coping with my situation...mother hated and blamed me and actually "sold" me to him for her bottle of whiskey....older siblings thought there "must be something wrong with this child for this evil to befall her" oh yea, I had a "wonderful" family and it went on ALL through my teenage years....ALL of those formulative years.....so yea, I had almost zero chance of even surviving, much less escaping a straight jacket in a mental hospital....I had a break down in 1970....I drove home from work and found myself 3 days later at the clinic, being drugged into slowing my racing heart, etc., (don' remember much) but NOONE wanted to get me into therapy....OH NO!!! Can't let the family secret get out, so lets just let this child slowly die from untreated GAD off the charts and PTSD.....
well??? i was resourceful as one could be as sick as I was...I drank beer and partied...self medicated....LUCKILY I did not have that genetic tendency to get hooked....I was LUCKY....but yea, I was a party animal till I got into recovery 15 years ago when I decided "ENOUGH" I'm gonna deal with this...face this...do whatever I gotta do to STOP wanting to die....to get out of self and LIVE and SHARE this life with safe others...
my reocvery in Al-anon and ACA was NOT easy by any stretch of the imagination...the first time I cried, I went 12 hours or so, straight...I cried so much, (I was alone, too...YIKES) I dehydrated...I could not pee, I was so dehydrated...so I called in work and told my boos I just could not make it...and I told her what happened as she was such a supporter of me...i drank gator aide and reeeeely thought I might be "too sick" to go this recovery stuff....in other words, the pain/grief/anger was so scary to me, I was willing to just go back to "numbing it" then help me out of this world when I was ready
but something nudged me on to STAY.....keep coming back......the love and validation, acceptance, BELIEVING ME, loving me inspite of the fact that I hated me deep inside.....I had to "borrow" others love for me...till I could slowly "grow" some love for myself......
yea, my road has been rocky...I was a "problem child" here on thsi board and got kicked out some years back and I would just try, like the moth to the flame, to come back and I would be allowed to come back and I would TRY AGAIN....EACH time, each season, each milestone, I grew and began to recover, reclaim my life...establish my birthright to be happy, safe, secure, healthy, have a livable/bearable life....
yea, its hard , work is slow, lots of bad crap hit me this past 2 years has been a lesson in torture, but I am HERE and I am workign on ME and NOT giving up on ME...I am NOT gonna let the monster /freak beat me....I wont' let him win....come hell or high water, I am gonna keep moving forward, keep progressing till I "take the dirt nap"
I most likely willl never completely recover as there was just too much damage done to me...programming me , setting me up for his evil pleasure....HER abandonment of me... Yea, I may never get all of me back, but I'm gonna give it one hell of a try.....
thanks for letting me "hijack" yoru thread....Hope it was OK....and I thank you for clarifying some stuff that had previously felt like dismissal for such a wicked tragedy for ANY child........
I love this so much. :)
Choriste-thanks! I love it, too! I wish my daughter could get past the injustices done (and I don't mean to minimize them). Continuing on in bitterness and anger only holds a person back. Yes, there has to be grieving and everyone does it in their own way and time, I know.
Hi there Mamalioness! I absolutely love your name. You keep fighting girl! Fighting forward I mean! (Grrrrrowl!)
Hello again Iamhere! I am happy to see my old friends again! Thanks for all your support and wisdom everyone. Bo...good points and I reread the perspectives that I had not ever considered. Every post is a blessing to me, really.
I will just tell a short short story. Last night when I was at work, I had a patient that I only had for 2 days so I didn't yet know her patterns, her baseline behavior with her diagnoses. She has multiple serious illnesses but the one that was concerning me was her breathing. It was very labored and I tried all the tricks/medications to improve it with little success. Trying to make it short, here, but I called the family to see what they wanted to do. They came in and began to argue because some wanted to send her to the hospital (that was my vote and the Dr had not agreed with me) and other family members wanted to give it some time and let her stay put. They yelled at each other, belittled each other, egos were in full force, there was crying. It was so sad. In the end, she was sent to the hospital and they put her on a ventilator. Here was a family UNITED in their love for grandma but not on the best way to show it. To me, growing up and seeing how other families have pain, cause pain, deal with pain...it is so eye opening! We love so imperfectly. That's my point after this story, lol. I forgive myself for not loving perfectly. I'm doing it as right as I can!
JerryF....your experience with your wife is truly incredible. Thanks for that insight. Wow.
Glad you saw the picture Rachel's Mom. The journey went on as my Higher Power allowed me to participate without touching or trying to direct and then when she, not me, decided to enter recovery HP used it to give me a definition of humility and trust I had never imagined. She got into recovery and for the first two weeks did it blindly with a bag over her head telling the others, "I have come to understand that if I will not allow myself to be led blindly thru this program...I will not make it". That takes my breath away and reinforces lessons regarding trust and commitment.
I can picture your daughter taking the same journey and have held her up to HP. ((((Hugs))))
Thanks for not being mad at me re: my "speaking for daughter" post I did...I always check my motives and I wrote that out of REAL desire to just share with you, what she might be thinking/feeling and I wish i could give her a hug and say "hey!! I believe you and I hear you and can relate to you" Sure hope she can find her footing and get her life back...You too, nice lady!!! and I think you are working a strong program....Keep coming back and sharing!!! You do have a lot of support from some really caring people.......
Thanks so much JerryF!!!