Ive come to the realization that I cant change my AH. Been working on accepting that for a while now and Im finally there. Im learning to disengage when hes been drinking (which is pretty much daily now) and doing a pretty good job at it too. Im learning to live my life for me and allow him to join in as he desires. But...there are times when it all just hits me so hard and the tears fall no matter how much I try to distract or redirect myself. Tonight for example. AH mentioned last night that hed like to go to a movie when he gets home tonight. Great I think - a fun night out! I had wanted to go a few weeks ago but he chose to spend the evening in his man cave and I ended up going by myself. So I was excited when he wanted to go tonight and spend time together. The plan was for AH, myself, and our kids to go. Kids got home from school and really arent up for it. One isnt feeling well, the other is just exhausted. I call to confirm with AH and let him know it will just be us. He immediately backs out. Weeellllll...maybe well just wait until tomorrow or Sunday then... He was on speaker phone in the car so the kids heard him. One of them said You should take mom out on a date night, just the two of you! to which he said, Well, its not that I dont want to do that, but I kinda wanted it to be all of us. Well just wait. *sigh* He says he loves me - says Im everything hes ever wanted. But he sure seems to avoid spending any quality time with me. And it hurts.
Temple said
Jan 18, 2019
I have to remind myself from time to time that my husband is not in his right mind.
Basically, I am dealing with a chemical; he doesn't drink anymore, but he seems to be on a dry drunk lots of the time. And is stuck in adolescence. For instance, I just now asked him if he's had any water to drink today? A little. Seems to be "proud" of that? Thinks it is cute? I don't know.
I can still feel rejected/abandoned/neglected. It hurts because I thought I'd have a husband like my mother did. And I don't.
But I'm doing better. I've had a lot of years for it to dawn on me--he isn't who he was and he never was who I thought he was, anyway. He quit drinking--perhaps he feels that is all that is required. Never has had any interest in full recovery--too scared, I think. My shrink coerced him into attending AA for a time--it had to be a no-smoking group for my sake and that was not easy to find in those days. They didn't know what to do with him. He walked in years "sober." Mainlining Listerine didn't count, you see. If he had crawled in with soiled clothes, they'd have embraced him. (It was a small group--a larger group might have had some sages in attendance.)
Anyway, when his self-appointed sponsor told him if he didn't go to 90 meetings in 90 days he would lose his job, that was it.
And he's never had a desire to try it again. Nor therapy.
I hope you have a good outcome. Good for you for taking yourself to the movie. I think that gets easier over time.
I just had a thought--he may be afraid that if just the two of you go, you will "talk" to him. I really can't imagine what it is like to be inside the mind of an active A.
Bless your heart--and your dear children
Temple
-- Edited by Temple on Friday 18th of January 2019 07:25:48 PM
Fedora said
Jan 18, 2019
Twinkies, this is so hard. I feel for you. If it is at all possible, I recommend the "take yourself to a movie" route. Or find a friend. It's not as good as having a date with your spouse, but it's a few moments that you can spend on yourself and very likely even a work friend will be better company. I have told only two people at work about my AH ; for a long time I cut myself off from my friends because I was ashamed of everything. But after awhile I found some friends who don't ask questions and are just happy to share a moment with you over coffee, or a movie.
Hugs.
Temple, your sentence "and is stuck in adolescence" just leapt out at me. My AH is probably less equipped for the world than my 9 year old. Being married to a child is not good.
I'm always encouraged when I come to this forum, bc I often forget that I did not invent having an AH. Just knowing I'm not alone is huge.
Maresie said
Jan 18, 2019
I used to take it all in very very personally when the now ex A rejected me. We are hard wired to take in negativity. Learning to detach is so key practising letting it go was so so key for me to build myself up Of course it was very hard to maintain.
Getting blood out of stone is rather difficult An alcoholic can be alternatively sweet kind generous and in tune with what we need. Over time there alcoholism progressed I took full responsibility for the alcoholics progression and zero responsibility for maintaining my self care.
Detachment starts small letting small things go then moving up the chain. Eventually it is like any other habit it is about bringing in the good. The ex A had good qualities he was hard working, resourceful and determined. His alcoholism ate all of that up When I felt out of control of that I assumed responsibility as a way to feel effective Then that attitude took over my life. Of course I felt I missed out on a great deal. Learning to stop comparing ny life to others is very hard It takes a tremendous focus.
For me al anon is about taking all that massive energy I gave to the now ex A and being willing to give it to myself I never really felt worthy of giving myself that kind of loving attention. Now I do.
Maresie
-- Edited by Maresie on Friday 18th of January 2019 09:27:14 PM
Iamhere said
Jan 19, 2019
(((Twinkies))) - for me, it hurts so much because when I get disappointed, my mind wants to rethink past disappointments and it becomes a 'poor pitiful me' moment. There is no doubt that I've been conditioned to assume what's happening is about me, my pain, my suffering, my let-downs, etc. Where practicing Al-Anon has helped is I can get out of my funk way faster, or even stop the funk before it goes too deep.
My experience is that each time I am let down or disappointed, I realize that what I want/need is not remotely aligned with reality. The more I practice acceptance, tolerance, detaching and gratitude for what I do have the better grounded I am to find a tool to help me in 'life moments'.
Feeling sad or disappointed is real and logical. Al-Anon has helped me find healthy ways of dealing with my feelings vs. unhealthy. For me, it's more healthy to focus on the present than the past or future. It's more healthy for me to hang with others who want to be with me vs. those who find other priorities.
As with all things, you are not alone in your feelings! Keep doing you and keep showing up and practice the program as best you can. I'm sending you a big (((hugs))), positive thoughts and prayers....keep coming back!
Lyne said
Jan 19, 2019
{{{Twinkies}}} I can so relate to the enormous amount of pain, which I had for so many years. Sometimes I coped better than others, but the blow would still come. It's only after several years of program that I was truly able to detach with love, give up expectations, learn to take better care of myself, and now my spouse is sober and getting some addiction help. I would prefer attendance with AA, but for now we do have some progress . It's a long road to heal, and stop being crushed by pain, but help is here. Face to face meetings are a tremendous help, along with all the other alanon resources. Keep coming back, Lyne
2HP said
Jan 19, 2019
My husband and I did less and less together after I got into al-anon. I'm certain he felt me practicing my new skills, especially detachment.
And while I began feeling more freedom in detachment, the relationship had changed. He surely felt it. Today it makes perfect sense that he would go into self-protection by doing the things your husband is doing... keeping the kids or another crowd around him as a buffer.... from the one who claims to be affected by him and his behavior (me.)
I very much like the suggestion that its not personal. because it's true, it has nothing to do with you. But that idea took time to sink into my bones. Taking anothers behavior personal always causes me to suffer.
The fact that my AH's words and actions didn't match up also made me feel crazy until I better understood alcoholism. It's one thing to point at others but that does not help me to change what I can. I had to notice the constant thought in my brain, "An alcoholic should not act like an alcoholic." When I believe that thought, who's insane?
But I can change my thoughts. in fact, that is how "recovery" seems to take off.
Since you are doing rather well with "acceptance," I chime in today because I wonder if your "pain" isn't actually "grief...."
For me, after I had accepted the idea that he wouldn't change, I went through a long period of grief.... over the loss of my dreams for us and our family. Al-anon has a book on grief titled Opening Our Hearts, Transforming Our Losses.
It takes courage to keep moving forward with our life by substituting friends for movies, etc. but also takes time (and determination) to let go of grief and sorrow. Be gentle with yourself while you "wake up" to new recovery awarenesses.
Trust that God did NOT bring you this far just to drop you on your head, or otherwise cause you pain. When I trust God (or just PRACTICE it at first...) this is an absolute spiritual success, the development of CONFIDENT faith.
You are not alone, my friend ((((big hugs)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Saturday 19th of January 2019 11:03:26 AM
El said
Jan 19, 2019
So many great shares on this topic. Every single one had meaning for me......especially just plain acceptance of who the A is in this moment. I agree with 2HP that my insane thinking led me to believe that my alcoholic shouldn't act like an alcoholic! Well, why the hell not? My thinking will still make me question why he says what he says or does what he does. He's an alcoholic! That's why. It boils down to accepting what is and as IAH stated that what I want or need is not aligned with the reality I am living with. I am the one who has to adjust my thinking and outlook in order to have any serenity.
Hugs,
El
Bo said
Jan 20, 2019
For me, when this happened, and it happened a lot during the phase where my wife was drinking regularly/daily -- this was about "nothing changes if nothing changes" and that statement is about ME. Why? She's doing what alcoholics do. Drinking, doing what she's doing, drinking, feeling what she's wanting to feel -- comes from the bottle and from drinking -- not from me, spending time together, holding hands, connecting, and so on. She would tell me multiple times a day that she loved me, wanted to spend the rest of her life with me, wanted nothing more than for us to be married, together, etc. However, her definition of life together was different than mine. She needed and wanted the bottle and to drink in order to be and feel fulfilled. Not "us" but drinking. She was sick, addicted, needed it, and wanted it.
So, this was about nothing changes if nothing changes. I was asking her to do something she was incapable of doing. Sure, I made excuses that she could and she used to, however, now she wouldn't. She couldn't. And I kept on -- over and over again -- having the expectation!!! Is the "fun night" whether out or home going to fulfill me? For the moment? For life? Is that going to make my marriage? Is that going to make my life, our life? Who is this about? Not her!!! It is about me!!! What am I going to do? What am I going to do vis a vis "is this the life I want to live" and is this the life I can live...because...nothing changes if nothing changes. Am I going along for the ride? Someone else's ride?
It hurts. It is supposed to hurt when all of this happens. Change has to take place in us. Or else we have to be OK with the life we will live. Some figure out ways to make it bearable. Some figure out ways to make it OK. I guess, in that context, alanon can teach people how to make the intolerable tolerable...how to make the unbearable bearable...how to make the unacceptable acceptable. Me, I never thought that was what alanon was about. However, if that works for someone...so be it...to each their own...that's their choice.
All the best.
2HP said
Jan 20, 2019
Applause applause!!!
In your post, I'm reading about significant changes in you --- AWARENESS AND ACCEPTANCE!
where before, there was none. That is progress (((my friend))) Pain after loss is normal.
JerryF said
Jan 20, 2019
I always had expectations that things would turn around and get better and I had them everyday and yet I learned that in our disease that is not a reasonable expectation. Over time and many expectations my spirit became very bruised and bruised spirit and body hurts mind, body, spirit and emotions. The definition of alcoholism I have is that we do not have the anesthesia of alcohol to block out reality so we feel big time. My alcoholic/addict wife went thru hell and I went right along also.
Our 12steps 12traditions program when worked as directed is a cure-all for me which I choose to work on a 24/7 basis. Keep coming back; listen,listen,listen, practice,practice,practice and when you see it working for others, duplicate what they do. (((((hugs)))))
Twinkies said
Jan 21, 2019
Thank you all so much. Your thoughts, experiences, and perspectives are all so appreciated. Everything that was said resonated with me and helped ground me. It still hurt, but I was able to take me out of the picture and see things for what they really are. Doing that actually helped set up a really nice weekend between AH and I, which I will post about separately in a bit. Individual moments can be hard but thanks to this place, and some effort put into working the steps, the days seem easier overall.
I have to remind myself from time to time that my husband is not in his right mind.
Basically, I am dealing with a chemical; he doesn't drink anymore, but he seems to be on a dry drunk lots of the time. And is stuck in adolescence. For instance, I just now asked him if he's had any water to drink today? A little. Seems to be "proud" of that? Thinks it is cute? I don't know.
I can still feel rejected/abandoned/neglected. It hurts because I thought I'd have a husband like my mother did. And I don't.
But I'm doing better. I've had a lot of years for it to dawn on me--he isn't who he was and he never was who I thought he was, anyway. He quit drinking--perhaps he feels that is all that is required. Never has had any interest in full recovery--too scared, I think. My shrink coerced him into attending AA for a time--it had to be a no-smoking group for my sake and
that was not easy to find in those days. They didn't know what to do with him. He walked in years "sober." Mainlining Listerine didn't count, you see. If he had crawled in with
soiled clothes, they'd have embraced him. (It was a small group--a larger group might have had some sages in attendance.)
Anyway, when his self-appointed sponsor told him if he didn't go to 90 meetings in 90 days he would lose his job, that was it.
And he's never had a desire to try it again. Nor therapy.
I hope you have a good outcome. Good for you for taking yourself to the movie. I think that gets easier over time.
I just had a thought--he may be afraid that if just the two of you go, you will "talk" to him. I really can't imagine what it is like to be inside the mind of an active A.
Bless your heart--and your dear children
Temple
-- Edited by Temple on Friday 18th of January 2019 07:25:48 PM
Hugs.
Temple, your sentence "and is stuck in adolescence" just leapt out at me. My AH is probably less equipped for the world than my 9 year old. Being married to a child is not good.
I'm always encouraged when I come to this forum, bc I often forget that I did not invent having an AH. Just knowing I'm not alone is huge.
I used to take it all in very very personally when the now ex A rejected me. We are hard wired to take in negativity. Learning to detach is so key practising letting it go was so so key for me to build myself up Of course it was very hard to maintain.
Getting blood out of stone is rather difficult An alcoholic can be alternatively sweet kind generous and in tune with what we need. Over time there alcoholism progressed I took full responsibility for the alcoholics progression and zero responsibility for maintaining my self care.
Detachment starts small letting small things go then moving up the chain. Eventually it is like any other habit it is about bringing in the good. The ex A had good qualities he was hard working, resourceful and determined. His alcoholism ate all of that up When I felt out of control of that I assumed responsibility as a way to feel effective Then that attitude took over my life. Of course I felt I missed out on a great deal. Learning to stop comparing ny life to others is very hard It takes a tremendous focus.
For me al anon is about taking all that massive energy I gave to the now ex A and being willing to give it to myself I never really felt worthy of giving myself that kind of loving attention. Now I do.
Maresie
-- Edited by Maresie on Friday 18th of January 2019 09:27:14 PM
My experience is that each time I am let down or disappointed, I realize that what I want/need is not remotely aligned with reality. The more I practice acceptance, tolerance, detaching and gratitude for what I do have the better grounded I am to find a tool to help me in 'life moments'.
Feeling sad or disappointed is real and logical. Al-Anon has helped me find healthy ways of dealing with my feelings vs. unhealthy. For me, it's more healthy to focus on the present than the past or future. It's more healthy for me to hang with others who want to be with me vs. those who find other priorities.
As with all things, you are not alone in your feelings! Keep doing you and keep showing up and practice the program as best you can. I'm sending you a big (((hugs))), positive thoughts and prayers....keep coming back!
My husband and I did less and less together after I got into al-anon. I'm certain he felt me practicing my new skills, especially detachment.
And while I began feeling more freedom in detachment, the relationship had changed. He surely felt it. Today it makes perfect sense that he would go into self-protection by doing the things your husband is doing... keeping the kids or another crowd around him as a buffer.... from the one who claims to be affected by him and his behavior (me.)
I very much like the suggestion that its not personal. because it's true, it has nothing to do with you. But that idea took time to sink into my bones. Taking anothers behavior personal always causes me to suffer.
The fact that my AH's words and actions didn't match up also made me feel crazy until I better understood alcoholism. It's one thing to point at others but that does not help me to change what I can. I had to notice the constant thought in my brain, "An alcoholic should not act like an alcoholic." When I believe that thought, who's insane?
But I can change my thoughts. in fact, that is how "recovery" seems to take off.
Since you are doing rather well with "acceptance," I chime in today because I wonder if your "pain" isn't actually "grief...."
For me, after I had accepted the idea that he wouldn't change, I went through a long period of grief.... over the loss of my dreams for us and our family. Al-anon has a book on grief titled Opening Our Hearts, Transforming Our Losses.
It takes courage to keep moving forward with our life by substituting friends for movies, etc. but also takes time (and determination) to let go of grief and sorrow. Be gentle with yourself while you "wake up" to new recovery awarenesses.
Trust that God did NOT bring you this far just to drop you on your head, or otherwise cause you pain. When I trust God (or just PRACTICE it at first...) this is an absolute spiritual success, the development of CONFIDENT faith.
You are not alone, my friend ((((big hugs)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Saturday 19th of January 2019 11:03:26 AM
So many great shares on this topic. Every single one had meaning for me......especially just plain acceptance of who the A is in this moment. I agree with 2HP that my insane thinking led me to believe that my alcoholic shouldn't act like an alcoholic! Well, why the hell not? My thinking will still make me question why he says what he says or does what he does. He's an alcoholic! That's why. It boils down to accepting what is and as IAH stated that what I want or need is not aligned with the reality I am living with. I am the one who has to adjust my thinking and outlook in order to have any serenity.
Hugs,
El
So, this was about nothing changes if nothing changes. I was asking her to do something she was incapable of doing. Sure, I made excuses that she could and she used to, however, now she wouldn't. She couldn't. And I kept on -- over and over again -- having the expectation!!! Is the "fun night" whether out or home going to fulfill me? For the moment? For life? Is that going to make my marriage? Is that going to make my life, our life? Who is this about? Not her!!! It is about me!!! What am I going to do? What am I going to do vis a vis "is this the life I want to live" and is this the life I can live...because...nothing changes if nothing changes. Am I going along for the ride? Someone else's ride?
It hurts. It is supposed to hurt when all of this happens. Change has to take place in us. Or else we have to be OK with the life we will live. Some figure out ways to make it bearable. Some figure out ways to make it OK. I guess, in that context, alanon can teach people how to make the intolerable tolerable...how to make the unbearable bearable...how to make the unacceptable acceptable. Me, I never thought that was what alanon was about. However, if that works for someone...so be it...to each their own...that's their choice.
All the best.
In your post, I'm reading about significant changes in you --- AWARENESS AND ACCEPTANCE!
where before, there was none. That is progress (((my friend))) Pain after loss is normal.
I always had expectations that things would turn around and get better and I had them everyday and yet I learned that in our disease that is not a reasonable expectation. Over time and many expectations my spirit became very bruised and bruised spirit and body hurts mind, body, spirit and emotions. The definition of alcoholism I have is that we do not have the anesthesia of alcohol to block out reality so we feel big time. My alcoholic/addict wife went thru hell and I went right along also.
Our 12steps 12traditions program when worked as directed is a cure-all for me which I choose to work on a 24/7 basis. Keep coming back; listen,listen,listen, practice,practice,practice and when you see it working for others, duplicate what they do. (((((hugs)))))