I'm asking for some prayers...this is the worse Christmas that I have ever been through.
Two Days ago me and my daughter got into an argument because a boy came to the house(shes 14). An hour later she took off and went missing. I was so scared and my husband left work to go to all her friends houses, to see my family and nothing. So we turned her into the cops and my husband continued to drive around. After talking to all her friends that she has been lying about having a boyfriend. Then we get a phone call from cps and our daughter is at the hospital and they need to see us because she is contemplating suicide. We find out after talking to them that my sister had her and lied to us about her being at their house(that was the first house we went to after she went missing). I had sit through questioning and we had to tell him that we don't talk to my family because they are very manipulative/dysfunctional/alcoholics that we cant have a relationship because they have In the past tried to manipulate our daughter. He was very surprised and hurriedly told security to get my sister out of the room. He Admitted later that he didn't know the specifics about my relationship with my sister and honestly? It feels like he listened to her speech and spiel before even talking to us and the. Oh crap! I "probably" shouldn't have done this..
So after that is when he suggested we get a restraining order on my sister because he admitted that it will probably be harder for us to help our daughter with the family conflict going on. In between all of this, I'm just breaking down here and there because I had no idea that my daughter was feeling this way and apparently she told my sister and not me. Normally that would be okay but in my family that's not a good thing. My family has proven in the past with my daughter wanting to manipulate her to their side and will say and do anything to have her in their life. Its made my life a living hell because it's impossible to have a relationship with her when someone else is telling her things. So I cut them off and didn't go back because I didn't want them trying to manipulate or influence my other kids.
After All of this we found out that cps wants to send her out and I can't be in the room and she wants her dad. I agree to this because I want her to have the best help possible and shes leaving today. Bottom line? I'm going to give up. My husband told her before she left that we can't be around my family because of all the trouble they have given us and she needs to be aware that if she wants to have that relationship then we can't be involved. There isn't going to be a back and forth relationship because we for sure don't want the mess that comes with having them around. I guess he told her to use this as a break and get reset so she can start with a blank slate and when she comes back she can decide where she wants to live because she obviously isn't happy with us with how she has completely disconnected from all of us. She agreed to that. I am literally in shock. My sister keeping vital information about my daughter away from me so she can use it later? My daughter saying she doesn't Want to be around me? And then there is the issue about all the lying she has done. Talking to her friends they all told me little tidbits about her and I had no idea. Her Dad asked about the boyfriend and she said she ran because she didn't want to get yelled at and he asked again if its true and she said no its not and he said well your friends say differently and then she just went super silent and her face was in shock.
I'm sorry for such a long post I'm in shock and I've been crying for two days. I know she needs help but also I have been fighting my families influence on her for so long that I cant do it anymore. I'm trying to think of myself right now because I have to try and get Christmas together for my other kids. I told my therapist my thoughts and he said you have been fighting this for so long(12 years) that I think you know what you should do. You have to be there for your other kids and try to keep them from your family's harsh influences so you can keep that bond. He agreed with me when I told him shes almost 15 and I cant block her decision on who she wants to be with because she does know her own mind.
I'm so devastated right now like in shock and disgust And angry. My friend drove me around for about two hours last night and we talked and I told him everything that has been happening and said he wishes we would have told him sooner because we wouldn't have to deal with all of this alone. He said the depression is pretty bad and I said I know..but she has disconnected from us for so long that I didn't know. Her running to my sister and then cps showing up and telling me that she doesn't want to be around me and the boyfriend issue is just all a lot to deal with at once. I said I can't fight my whole family because its taken a toll on me so badly that I long lasting issues from what they did to me and almost destroying my marriage due to their antics. I Also have to get a restraining order against my sister but then Idk if I want to do that because she hasn't reached her decision yet and I have to keep that option open for her. I'm literally in a rock and a hard place. It's taking everything in me to just not breakdown even though I want to. I don't know if she is even thinking about the ramifications she put us in that night. I don't know what she told the cps guy but the questions were pretty heavy and I feel like there was a lot of lying from my sister on my daughters behalf due to how he literally ran from the room to tell security to get her barred from our daughters room and the restraining order advice.
Its a lot to take in.
-- Edited by Pol on Sunday 23rd of December 2018 12:49:34 PM
JerryF said
Dec 23, 2018
My thoughts and prayers and experiences are with you Pol. This post sounds much like a duplicate what I am going thru with my family and what others are going thru with theirs too. This morning I just finished reading the November 2018 issue of the Forum, our monthly magazine issue and read Sally M from Maine's ESH from page 14 and yes it involved her struggle with her daughter and the solution she and her husband found in our program. WOW!! She makes the statement of one of three awesome awareness , that being the first step.
Of course I relate...it is also my first step which supports us as our grand-daughter struggles with he affects of addiction from her family too.
My thoughts and prayers and experience are with you. I will take you and your husband and family with me to my morning meeting and turn this all over to my HP. (((((hugs)))))
mamalioness said
Dec 23, 2018
My thoughts and prayers for you and this awful situation. I have a grown child who wants nothing to do with me this is been an issue since she turned 20 and started using drugs. I had to let go finally. I just couldnt take anymore of the roller coaster. I am so sorry that this is happened to you, and I can relate to having a bad sister.
For years, I had to cut one of mine out of my life, not because of alcoholism but because she attacked me and demeaned me when I wanted to get into recovery and do it. Please keep coming back here and sharing and hopefully you can find a sponsor in the meetings and learn how to take good care of yourself. I am so sorry reading your post made me so sad. When it comes to a child it is really the worst. If you are in doubt about getting the restraining order or not, wait until you know for sure what to do. But I would definitely, if this were me, stay clear of that sister. My heart goes out to you
Iamhere said
Dec 23, 2018
(((Pol))) - I too am sending you thoughts and prayers. My boys are now 26 and 24 and the teen years were sheer hell on earth. I would love to say that there were good times mixed in but truly that's just not the case for our home. I can point to the disease as I am 5th/6th generation of 'it' and possibly some MH issues yet what I can share is that we did all get to the other side. We still have issues, and there are still extreme dysfunctional moments. Our program saved my life and sanity during this extremely long 'phase' that still continues in so many respects.
For me, I had this idea (expectation) that I could fix, heal, cure decades of disease insanity. In our home, my boys have never seen me under the influence as I got sober before they arrived. I thought I could protect them from the hardships of life and so many other things - of which I really had no control.
I have a very large dysfunctional family. Alcoholism/addiction is all around us. I could tell you many stories similar to yours yet prefer to focus on what happened that moved us forward. I had no choice but to embrace this program and really, really embrace the First Step (as Jerry suggests) and then the remaining steps. I had to find/use a sponsor to bounce things off as each family member had a vested interest, just like me, and rarely did we believe in the same 'next right thing'. I had to use any/all tools offered to me to learn how to live One Day at a Time, Stop Projecting the Worse Case Scenario and Stop ASSuming the past was the predictor for the future. I really had to find a HP and practice turning 'it' over all day, every day as I knew at most levels there was no action I could take that would fix 'this'.
My oldest ended up in state custody after threatening to kill me and his brother. That was a awful experience for all of us yet we did learn some things because of it. My youngest ended up in a homeless shelter, and then was booted out and asked never to return. Both have been in trouble with the law, in jail and even prison. Along the way, when I was unwilling to enable/pacify, they did reach out to other family, and manipulated/conned others to 'help'. Again, many, many painful, ugly roads on this journey, yet each scenario presented me and them with learning opportunities.
Had I not embraced Al-Anon, and committed to saving my own sanity, I would never have been of value to them when they really needed me. I was a controlling, fearful, helicopter parent that expected way too much from them. They are very smart, capable boys yet they are also a bit lazy and slow to mature emotionally. The biggest mistake I made at the teen time was to talk at them, and not to them. I had no issue telling them what I expected, yet I didn't really give them a voice as to what they expected of themselves or us as parents. I unintentionally limited their growing by my actions and fear.
My own teen experience - I felt different from as far back as I can remember. I was the youngest with 3 older brothers. My parents are both untreated ACoA(s) and we had more rules and punishments than I can even recall. I was the why kid - very inquisitive about everything and that curiosity was all it took to rock the boat big time as my brothers were conformists. Needless to say, I was in trouble all the time, restricted, etc. I rebelled big time and had a deep-seated hatred for my mother especially as she was the one home the most. I had an unhealthy fear of my father as when he came home, and my mother reported on my 'crimes' for the day, he was the belt-swinger. My parents were big believers in corporal punishment and while it kept my brothers in line, it really wasn't effective with me.
I began escaping through substances early and never looked back. I lived in a state that allowed me to leave home @ 17, and I did so - the day after my birthday. We became estranged, and did not speak for 3+ years. Our town wasn't that big, and when I saw my brothers/parents, they ignored me and acted as if I was not there. I was uninvited to all family functions and holidays, and it hurt big time but was absolutely a necessary part of my journey to be who I am today.
My disease took me through the court process, many jobs, a few relationships, one failed marriage and a level of pain I didn't even know could exist. I landed in jail and prison as well, and finally got sick and tired of being sick and tired. I found AA and committed myself to recovery 31 years ago, and by the grace of God, a great sponsor and the love of many in recovery found my way.
I am certain I put my parents through hell. I put myself in harm's way so many times that I should not be alive. Yet, here I am, sharing with you, in the hopes of offering you hope that no matter the level of pain you have today, there is hope and help in recovery. Who she is today is not who she will be tomorrow, one year from now, etc. Who you are today is not who you will be either.
The estrangement I experienced resolved over time as I became more sane. While most of my family has not changed, I am better equipped to manage my thoughts, feelings, and the outcomes. While my sons are still immature and taking some detours, they do see now that some of our family is healthier than others. Yet, they had to learn this - me telling them really went in one ear and out the other.
I know as a teen I thought my parents were mean, stupid, strict, unfair, etc. I know my boys believe the same of me from that age. They know now as I learned in my 20(s) that it was out of love - even if it was different than I thought, it was out of love.
My best suggestions are to lean into this program as best you can...focus on just one day at a time. Take time to consider what is good in your life each day instead of what's broken. Consider gratitude/asset lists. Be gentle with you and consider 'when in doubt, don't'. I will say that it was really, really difficult to be a parent instead of a friend when my boys were in the hate you stage...I did consult with local MH professionals, the police, the courts, etc. all that I could as our issues were larger than I could handle/fix. In our case, when Restraining Orders were suggested, I did not delay - I did not want my child (with a child mind) to have the freedom to choose an unhealthy outcome. It's easier to undo one than to react when one is delayed.
You truly are not alone. I am who I am today and I am where I am today because of the gift of extreme pain and despair. This program saved my life and my sanity and you are not alone. (((Hugs)))
wp said
Dec 23, 2018
Pol, You have my prayers and believe me alanon peeps understand. It can be better in spite of the feelings we have that we just don't know how it will. This is a very hard time for me as well...I'm calling it the worst Christmas I've had too, but I still trust in HP to make it work out . Love and caring to you. wp
JerryF said
Dec 23, 2018
((((Pol)))) before I left for the meeting my HP put a rainbow over our house which reminds me that there is always peace and beauty in our world even when it seems that insanity rules. I thought of you and your daughter and my grand-daughter also and great grandsons. I am not God so I don't and won't make things worse by attempting to fix what I am powerless over.
This mornings meeting was very good because it was mutually supportive member to member and then we enjoyed the meal put together by the fellowship to bring Christmas around each other. We have many more reasons to be happy and sane than to be not.
Find your Higher Power's hand and hold it and give all else over. This disease is cunning, baffling and powerful and doesn't need to take you down. ((((hugs))))
Pol said
Dec 23, 2018
Im sorry Ive just been dealing with everything and we have been so busy. I really appreciate all the input and Im just letting it all go because I cant focus on it right now. Im just at this point to where I cant fight it and I dont want to. Only because she is in a fragile state and its not a good thing for her. Its a hard situation for everyone and I dont want to make it worse.
andromeda said
Dec 24, 2018
I"m so sorry your family is dealing with all of this. I will be praying for you and sending healing thoughts of peace and serenity and wisdom, as well.
Pol said
Dec 28, 2018
Hi everyone I thought I would give an update...
I sent my daughter away to an acute treatment center so they could get her out of crisis mode. But we have indefinitely stalled...due to it being christmas the therapists and social workers were all off of work for holiday and then when we finally got a hold of them well...it just didn't go anywhere. The therapist suggested that we (dont) send her to my sister due to the mind manipulation but also because we will stop having contact with her once she goes over there(i just don't like my family). I guess she did try to throw herself in traffic but then realized it wasn't working and then ran to my sisters. Those were details we didn't know and I had to explain to the social worker that because my sister contacted cps before us...they kept her away from us and wouldn't give us specifics(but yet we are supposed to be able to remedy this somehow without knowing anything????). It hasn't been easy to talk to her because she still has it in her head that I am the bad person but yet wants to come back here? and when I mentioned in order for the family therapy to work that we don't need distractions. I brought up the boyfriend and she just completely shutdown, refused to talk and started in on me to the point where I had to point out to her that ya know...I'm mom...I'm gonna have to say no sometimes and right now you are to young for a boyfriend especially in your fragile depressed state. That I can't be the bad person all the time because you are suggesting therapy and you are laughing at dad..and attacking me how is that communicating?.
I'm really scared and I've just been a wreck...I haven't slept and I miss her. I want her home here but I know she isn't happy here and with how she is acting, I can't handle it because my husband does have to work and I do stay home with the kids. I feel like this center is just telling her that we are the bad folks but yet we have to point out the lying on her end because its gone over to manipulation...hence the yes we will go to therapy...yes mom I love you...but I'm keeping the boyfriend and your still the bad person and I'm gonna do what I want.
It's really messed up and I don't feel safe around her? I'm seeing a side to her that is just depressing me and scaring me and I'm trying to be mom to her other siblings but we have just broke down so much over this that I'm super sad.
I know she is sick but she still mentioned that she wants to go to my sisters instead of home and THEN come home. I'm sitting here like...why am I even bothering?
Maresie said
Dec 28, 2018
I can tell you when I was a teenager the boyfriend was EVERYTHING. Relationships indeed were everything to me until I got into Al anon. I certainly would not have been able to tolerate anyone suggesting being out of one.
I dont doubt your daughter notices you #bothered# about her
One of.my big faults with therapy was everything shuts down around the holidays Then the therapists will ask how you are going to manage. These days I can be light hearted about it but I certainly felt abandoned most holidays
Being around someone who is involved in substance abuse often divides up families one of the characteristics is chaos. That is why al anon is so helpful in learning how to detach and focus on not reacting (which us extremely difficult).
You are in all the right places with being in al anon and being able to talk about what is coming up for you.
I am so grateful to be a men er of al.anon.
Maresie
Kcsnooze said
Dec 28, 2018
The therapist and counselors have absolutely seen and experienced every kind of lie, manipulation of facts and deflection of blame and responsibility we can imagine. They dont often take things at face value. There will be an opportunity for you and your husband to talk privately with the case worker and perhaps therapist to give your side.
I alto know that when the immediate goal is getting someone out of crisis, a therapist would not directly confront a patients lies (or false excuses for why they are in the situation they are in). Their whole jug right now is to get her stable emotionally, psychologicall, mentally and physically - to keep her safe. When they get through that initial psych-hold process, then they will start talking therapy sessions, including family therapy.
My suggestion is to only focus on the Next Right Step. Whether that is information gathering (medical records, insurance contacts), or reading up on suicidal tendencies in teenagers focusing on the very next thing to do (and not the other 50 that will come your way in the coking weeks), allows you to stay in the present, for options to present themselves at the appropriate time and not having anxiety worrying about an unknown future.
See, you can only find solutions when you know the problem you are addressing and have all the pertinent information. By worrying about what to do for a problem you dont fully understand yet, and the options that may be possible, you set yourself up for a very stressful ride.
what I want for you is to slow down and breathe, and when you get super stressed, slow down and breathe some More. When you talk to anyone at the hospital next, ask them if there is anything that you should be doing as they work to,get her settled in and ultimately prepare for s treatment plan. Tell them it can be chasing down records, whatever. But it may just help you feel like you are doing something.
I am sending lots of love and hope your way.
Susan
-- Edited by Kcsnooze on Friday 28th of December 2018 11:02:05 PM
Kcsnooze said
Dec 28, 2018
MaresIve,
You are so rifht. At that age, boys are everything.
Pol,
You may consider a compromise on the boyfriend issue. Kids do date a lot younger that we did.
But there can be age appropriate dating. Such as, activities like going to the movies must be accompanied by a group of friends. No hanging out amhones houses without a parent or a responsibility adult being present. No overnight trips with his family (yes, they do ask that these days). My daughter was asked several times when she was 14-15 to go on a skiing trip with 8 hours away. Eventually, we sat down and negotiated a dating contract for her. all these are ideas.
Pol said
Dec 28, 2018
We had a very tense phone call and Im just giving up. I want to do whats best for her with therapy and everything else but she has just shut me and her dad out so completely that I just cant do it anymore. Honestly talking to her this last time she has built up her defenses so high and just said I already called auntie and Im moving out and I love you but this is what Im doing. I mean what can I do? Bring her back here and shes just gonna keep doing what shes doing and then she will just continue to hate us? I think she already does. She didnt feel bad over anything and Im balling my eyes out hearing this and I know when to wave the flag. She hates us and I have to accept that. I dont know why, no one will give me a straight answer including her. Im just so sad and I failed. My family won.
serenity47 said
Dec 29, 2018
I am so sorry that you are experiencing this with your daughter and family. I know how extremely difficult and overwhelming it can all seem.
There were many times when I felt like I had lost my daughter forever when she began her descent into addiction. I never gave up on her or us though. There continues to be many tough times but they are less and I am able to handle them better.
Its ok to take a break for yourself to regroup. I know that I became so stressed and overwhelmed that I could not think myself out of anything let alone make any good decisions for myself or my family at that time.
JFT she is alive, there is hope and a lot can change in a short period of time. Hugs.
Im said
Dec 29, 2018
Please dont think youve failed. Teenage years are so tough. I have three of them and am in the midst of it all right now. You know what is best for your family and Id encourage you to stick w that. Prayers for you, your family and young daughter. ...
Iamhere said
Dec 29, 2018
(((Pol))) - I so agree with Im - you've not failed and nobody can prepare us for the teenage years - they are rough! I feel like I am stuck in them even though my sons are 24 and 26....there are moments where it almost freezes me to see or hear some blip from the past when it was constant turmoil, chaos, insanity.
Our program tools really helped me greatly. Especially the slogans. There were many times that I wanted to 'quit' on my kid(s), walk away, etc. It just felt like the 'only answer' in the moment. Lovely program friends and sponsor kept reminding me that we really, really try to live one day at a time. I was given permission to 'quit' just for that day.
Ultimately, I really had no choice but to let go - not of them but of my expectations. I had this idea that my kids would respect me because I birthed them. I had this expectation they would follow rules because I housed them. I had this idea that they would finish HS and then go to college. I could list a million more ideas, expectations, projections I had - and I had to let all of them go, and really focus on this day, my health and how I could be of service. It was unbelievable difficult and seemed really unfair, yet it was absolutely necessary for my own sanity and theirs as well.
I also had to admit that I was not equipped to handle, manage or even deal with the issues they were experiencing. Allowing the professionals to lead the discussions, plans, etc. for treatment - even when I disagreed - became necessary and was terrifying at times. I felt very inadequate, as I believed that as a mom, I should know best (my ego)....which wasn't always the case.
I really made an effort to shake off the negative energy each morning upon awakening. I prayed for the strength to stay in this one day only, and to PAUSE always to PRAY before PROCEEDING. I had to do a ton of tongue biting as my boys views of our home life and mine varied GREATLY. We did survive it all, and things are better - far still from my expectations - but progress is a ton better than not.
Be gentle with you. Let go of expectations and try to stay in the moment. Lean into recovery as best you can, and try to not take it personally even when it's directed right at you...sending tons of prayers!
Pol said
Dec 29, 2018
Hi everyone.
I've just been trying my hardest not to take everything personally. I know she still loves me because she was so upset last night after we argued. I'm finding more and more out while I'm here and she's there. I'm trying to make it through the layers of her depression and lying. Everyone keeps telling me that it hasn't been that long at all and that I should be able to break through at some point but I honestly feel like the program is flawed because I have to keep bothering the therapists and nurses to give me insight on how she's doing. The biggest problem I'm facing is that it seems like once I uncover something about her, something that i should know...she just shuts down and refuses to talk. Her defense is that I'm the problem etc. but its like well its my way or no way at all and that's it. I still don't understand the thinking behind that one and that scares me because I could see how she has impulse control if she's still throwing around suicide.
It's scary. I'm trying not to give up but my self esteem is super low. My husband is just so sad, we don't know how to deal with this.
Iamhere said
Dec 30, 2018
Pol - there truly are no easy answers and it's extremely painful and difficult. You are right that it's extremely scary and upsetting and sad. Mine also talked of suicide and that's when I knew I was dealing with something well beyond my skill set. I really had to keep things simple, focus on one day at a time and listen to the experts. It was not easy and it often felt like one step forward, two steps backwards. Again, there are no easy answers!
Somebody suggested to me that God doesn't make mistakes, and perhaps he placed my 2 boys with me as he knew I could handle it. I literally wanted to smack this person, but practiced restraint. In looking back, I believe there is some truth to this - as painful as our experiences here were, we did all get to the other side, learned many lessons and grew more individually and as a family.
Keep coming back, keep an open mind and keep being gentle. You are not alone!
Mattie said
Jan 2, 2019
I'm sorry this is happening - it is very stressful. I second the others in saying that getting professional counselors involved as much as possible could be extremely helpful - if we could solve all these problems ourselves they'd already be solved, right? I think we've all been in that situation. I know when I'm in a time of high stress, my thinking tends to be very much all-or-nothing, and I wonder if there is some of that going on. I well know the importance of setting boundaries with dysfunctional family. But my thought is that right now, taking a position of "If she has anything to do with the dysfunctional family, then I will not interact with her," increases the intensity of the situation. And really what would benefit everyone is de-escalating a bit and letting things get calmer and letting her find her way back to you, emotionally as well as physically. When stress is high, people also tend to polarize: one person says "I'm going to do this thing and you can't stop me!" and the other person reacts with "If you do this thing then I'll have nothing to do with you!" and the first person says, "If you say that then I'll never deal with you again!" and everyone gets in their corners and it gets hard to reach out and find harmony and compromise. My guess (having been a difficult teen myself) is that she badly wants help and love and for you to reach out, even if she is all fury and self-righteousness. And I'd imagine one reason she hangs onto the boyfriend so hard is that she sees him as another source of love, which she is craving so much. Teen brains are not good at compromise, but fortunately adults can see straighter and make the first steps at coming out of the corner. People threaten suicide when they don't see other ways out. I know it must be a big and sad and horrible shock that she has thought of these things. But maybe more ways forward would help her see that there are options for her. Take very good care of yourself too. None of this is easy, heaven knows. Hugs.
Pol said
Jan 2, 2019
Thanks everyone for the input.
I want to sit back and say that it will all work out but I cant say that right now. Shes still angry but not as bad, we have been able to hold a conversation without any judgment and fighting. We had a family therapy session and shes pretty aware of some things that the therapist had to set her straight on. Im very worried about my family because they have just been causing a lot of side issues when we should be focusing on the stuff at hand.
One day at a time.
Staying in the moment.
JerryF said
Jan 2, 2019
Pol it is a disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions and very very few of us come or came prepared for it. You are not the healer or savior because you don't know and don't know you don't know how it bafflingly moves up and down, in and out, round and round. When I came to understand the truth of that myself I quit trying to fix it or solve it or make it different except just for me.
Our program has lots of tools and solutions I can focus on and learn instead of trying new and different ways to beat the disease and remake my alcoholics and addicts into the miracles I think they should be. The impossible task made even more impossible.
What could I do instead? Go get myself fixed one day at a time.
How much weight would you take off your spirit and heart when you let go of your daughter? How much does she weigh and place on her feet? (((((hugs)))))
mamalioness said
Jan 3, 2019
(((Pol))) I love what Jerry said...I have zero to offer after reading the GREAT ESH you got from the others....You didn't cause this...you'll never control this...you will NEVER cure this.....Step one..I am powerless, (but I DO have the choice to take care of me, stay on my side of the street or get enmeshed and obsessed with aother's issues where I am 1000% powerless)
seems to me you see that...Good on you...Keep coming back...Keep loving on and working on you.......
I'm asking for some prayers...this is the worse Christmas that I have ever been through.
Two Days ago me and my daughter got into an argument because a boy came to the house(shes 14). An hour later she took off and went missing. I was so scared and my husband left work to go to all her friends houses, to see my family and nothing. So we turned her into the cops and my husband continued to drive around. After talking to all her friends that she has been lying about having a boyfriend. Then we get a phone call from cps and our daughter is at the hospital and they need to see us because she is contemplating suicide. We find out after talking to them that my sister had her and lied to us about her being at their house(that was the first house we went to after she went missing). I had sit through questioning and we had to tell him that we don't talk to my family because they are very manipulative/dysfunctional/alcoholics that we cant have a relationship because they have In the past tried to manipulate our daughter. He was very surprised and hurriedly told security to get my sister out of the room. He Admitted later that he didn't know the specifics about my relationship with my sister and honestly? It feels like he listened to her speech and spiel before even talking to us and the. Oh crap! I "probably" shouldn't have done this..
So after that is when he suggested we get a restraining order on my sister because he admitted that it will probably be harder for us to help our daughter with the family conflict going on. In between all of this, I'm just breaking down here and there because I had no idea that my daughter was feeling this way and apparently she told my sister and not me. Normally that would be okay but in my family that's not a good thing. My family has proven in the past with my daughter wanting to manipulate her to their side and will say and do anything to have her in their life. Its made my life a living hell because it's impossible to have a relationship with her when someone else is telling her things. So I cut them off and didn't go back because I didn't want them trying to manipulate or influence my other kids.
After All of this we found out that cps wants to send her out and I can't be in the room and she wants her dad. I agree to this because I want her to have the best help possible and shes leaving today. Bottom line? I'm going to give up. My husband told her before she left that we can't be around my family because of all the trouble they have given us and she needs to be aware that if she wants to have that relationship then we can't be involved. There isn't going to be a back and forth relationship because we for sure don't want the mess that comes with having them around. I guess he told her to use this as a break and get reset so she can start with a blank slate and when she comes back she can decide where she wants to live because she obviously isn't happy with us with how she has completely disconnected from all of us. She agreed to that.
I am literally in shock. My sister keeping vital information about my daughter away from me so she can use it later? My daughter saying she doesn't Want to be around me? And then there is the issue about all the lying she has done. Talking to her friends they all told me little tidbits about her and I had no idea. Her Dad asked about the boyfriend and she said she ran because she didn't want to get yelled at and he asked again if its true and she said no its not and he said well your friends say differently and then she just went super silent and her face was in shock.
I'm sorry for such a long post I'm in shock and I've been crying for two days. I know she needs help but also I have been fighting my families influence on her for so long that I cant do it anymore. I'm trying to think of myself right now because I have to try and get Christmas together for my other kids. I told my therapist my thoughts and he said you have been fighting this for so long(12 years) that I think you know what you should do. You have to be there for your other kids and try to keep them from your family's harsh influences so you can keep that bond. He agreed with me when I told him shes almost 15 and I cant block her decision on who she wants to be with because she does know her own mind.
I'm so devastated right now like in shock and disgust And angry. My friend drove me around for about two hours last night and we talked and I told him everything that has been happening and said he wishes we would have told him sooner because we wouldn't have to deal with all of this alone. He said the depression is pretty bad and I said I know..but she has disconnected from us for so long that I didn't know. Her running to my sister and then cps showing up and telling me that she doesn't want to be around me and the boyfriend issue is just all a lot to deal with at once. I said I can't fight my whole family because its taken a toll on me so badly that I long lasting issues from what they did to me and almost destroying my marriage due to their antics. I Also have to get a restraining order against my sister but then Idk if I want to do that because she hasn't reached her decision yet and I have to keep that option open for her. I'm literally in a rock and a hard place.
It's taking everything in me to just not breakdown even though I want to. I don't know if she is even thinking about the ramifications she put us in that night. I don't know what she told the cps guy but the questions were pretty heavy and I feel like there was a lot of lying from my sister on my daughters behalf due to how he literally ran from the room to tell security to get her barred from our daughters room and the restraining order advice.
Its a lot to take in.
-- Edited by Pol on Sunday 23rd of December 2018 12:49:34 PM
My thoughts and prayers and experiences are with you Pol. This post sounds much like a duplicate what I am going thru with my family and what others are going thru with theirs too. This morning I just finished reading the November 2018 issue of the Forum, our monthly magazine issue and read Sally M from Maine's ESH from page 14 and yes it involved her struggle with her daughter and the solution she and her husband found in our program. WOW!! She makes the statement of one of three awesome awareness , that being the first step.
Of course I relate...it is also my first step which supports us as our grand-daughter struggles with he affects of addiction from her family too.
My thoughts and prayers and experience are with you. I will take you and your husband and family with me to my morning meeting and turn this all over to my HP. (((((hugs)))))
For years, I had to cut one of mine out of my life, not because of alcoholism but because she attacked me and demeaned me when I wanted to get into recovery and do it. Please keep coming back here and sharing and hopefully you can find a sponsor in the meetings and learn how to take good care of yourself. I am so sorry reading your post made me so sad. When it comes to a child it is really the worst. If you are in doubt about getting the restraining order or not, wait until you know for sure what to do. But I would definitely, if this were me, stay clear of that sister. My heart goes out to you
For me, I had this idea (expectation) that I could fix, heal, cure decades of disease insanity. In our home, my boys have never seen me under the influence as I got sober before they arrived. I thought I could protect them from the hardships of life and so many other things - of which I really had no control.
I have a very large dysfunctional family. Alcoholism/addiction is all around us. I could tell you many stories similar to yours yet prefer to focus on what happened that moved us forward. I had no choice but to embrace this program and really, really embrace the First Step (as Jerry suggests) and then the remaining steps. I had to find/use a sponsor to bounce things off as each family member had a vested interest, just like me, and rarely did we believe in the same 'next right thing'. I had to use any/all tools offered to me to learn how to live One Day at a Time, Stop Projecting the Worse Case Scenario and Stop ASSuming the past was the predictor for the future. I really had to find a HP and practice turning 'it' over all day, every day as I knew at most levels there was no action I could take that would fix 'this'.
My oldest ended up in state custody after threatening to kill me and his brother. That was a awful experience for all of us yet we did learn some things because of it. My youngest ended up in a homeless shelter, and then was booted out and asked never to return. Both have been in trouble with the law, in jail and even prison. Along the way, when I was unwilling to enable/pacify, they did reach out to other family, and manipulated/conned others to 'help'. Again, many, many painful, ugly roads on this journey, yet each scenario presented me and them with learning opportunities.
Had I not embraced Al-Anon, and committed to saving my own sanity, I would never have been of value to them when they really needed me. I was a controlling, fearful, helicopter parent that expected way too much from them. They are very smart, capable boys yet they are also a bit lazy and slow to mature emotionally. The biggest mistake I made at the teen time was to talk at them, and not to them. I had no issue telling them what I expected, yet I didn't really give them a voice as to what they expected of themselves or us as parents. I unintentionally limited their growing by my actions and fear.
My own teen experience - I felt different from as far back as I can remember. I was the youngest with 3 older brothers. My parents are both untreated ACoA(s) and we had more rules and punishments than I can even recall. I was the why kid - very inquisitive about everything and that curiosity was all it took to rock the boat big time as my brothers were conformists. Needless to say, I was in trouble all the time, restricted, etc. I rebelled big time and had a deep-seated hatred for my mother especially as she was the one home the most. I had an unhealthy fear of my father as when he came home, and my mother reported on my 'crimes' for the day, he was the belt-swinger. My parents were big believers in corporal punishment and while it kept my brothers in line, it really wasn't effective with me.
I began escaping through substances early and never looked back. I lived in a state that allowed me to leave home @ 17, and I did so - the day after my birthday. We became estranged, and did not speak for 3+ years. Our town wasn't that big, and when I saw my brothers/parents, they ignored me and acted as if I was not there. I was uninvited to all family functions and holidays, and it hurt big time but was absolutely a necessary part of my journey to be who I am today.
My disease took me through the court process, many jobs, a few relationships, one failed marriage and a level of pain I didn't even know could exist. I landed in jail and prison as well, and finally got sick and tired of being sick and tired. I found AA and committed myself to recovery 31 years ago, and by the grace of God, a great sponsor and the love of many in recovery found my way.
I am certain I put my parents through hell. I put myself in harm's way so many times that I should not be alive. Yet, here I am, sharing with you, in the hopes of offering you hope that no matter the level of pain you have today, there is hope and help in recovery. Who she is today is not who she will be tomorrow, one year from now, etc. Who you are today is not who you will be either.
The estrangement I experienced resolved over time as I became more sane. While most of my family has not changed, I am better equipped to manage my thoughts, feelings, and the outcomes. While my sons are still immature and taking some detours, they do see now that some of our family is healthier than others. Yet, they had to learn this - me telling them really went in one ear and out the other.
I know as a teen I thought my parents were mean, stupid, strict, unfair, etc. I know my boys believe the same of me from that age. They know now as I learned in my 20(s) that it was out of love - even if it was different than I thought, it was out of love.
My best suggestions are to lean into this program as best you can...focus on just one day at a time. Take time to consider what is good in your life each day instead of what's broken. Consider gratitude/asset lists. Be gentle with you and consider 'when in doubt, don't'. I will say that it was really, really difficult to be a parent instead of a friend when my boys were in the hate you stage...I did consult with local MH professionals, the police, the courts, etc. all that I could as our issues were larger than I could handle/fix. In our case, when Restraining Orders were suggested, I did not delay - I did not want my child (with a child mind) to have the freedom to choose an unhealthy outcome. It's easier to undo one than to react when one is delayed.
You truly are not alone. I am who I am today and I am where I am today because of the gift of extreme pain and despair. This program saved my life and my sanity and you are not alone. (((Hugs)))
((((Pol)))) before I left for the meeting my HP put a rainbow over our house which reminds me that there is always peace and beauty in our world even when it seems that insanity rules. I thought of you and your daughter and my grand-daughter also and great grandsons. I am not God so I don't and won't make things worse by attempting to fix what I am powerless over.
This mornings meeting was very good because it was mutually supportive member to member and then we enjoyed the meal put together by the fellowship to bring Christmas around each other. We have many more reasons to be happy and sane than to be not.
Find your Higher Power's hand and hold it and give all else over. This disease is cunning, baffling and powerful and doesn't need to take you down. ((((hugs))))
I sent my daughter away to an acute treatment center so they could get her out of crisis mode. But we have indefinitely stalled...due to it being christmas the therapists and social workers were all off of work for holiday and then when we finally got a hold of them well...it just didn't go anywhere. The therapist suggested that we (dont) send her to my sister due to the mind manipulation but also because we will stop having contact with her once she goes over there(i just don't like my family). I guess she did try to throw herself in traffic but then realized it wasn't working and then ran to my sisters. Those were details we didn't know and I had to explain to the social worker that because my sister contacted cps before us...they kept her away from us and wouldn't give us specifics(but yet we are supposed to be able to remedy this somehow without knowing anything????). It hasn't been easy to talk to her because she still has it in her head that I am the bad person but yet wants to come back here? and when I mentioned in order for the family therapy to work that we don't need distractions. I brought up the boyfriend and she just completely shutdown, refused to talk and started in on me to the point where I had to point out to her that ya know...I'm mom...I'm gonna have to say no sometimes and right now you are to young for a boyfriend especially in your fragile depressed state. That I can't be the bad person all the time because you are suggesting therapy and you are laughing at dad..and attacking me how is that communicating?.
I'm really scared and I've just been a wreck...I haven't slept and I miss her. I want her home here but I know she isn't happy here and with how she is acting, I can't handle it because my husband does have to work and I do stay home with the kids. I feel like this center is just telling her that we are the bad folks but yet we have to point out the lying on her end because its gone over to manipulation...hence the yes we will go to therapy...yes mom I love you...but I'm keeping the boyfriend and your still the bad person and I'm gonna do what I want.
It's really messed up and I don't feel safe around her? I'm seeing a side to her that is just depressing me and scaring me and I'm trying to be mom to her other siblings but we have just broke down so much over this that I'm super sad.
I know she is sick but she still mentioned that she wants to go to my sisters instead of home and THEN come home. I'm sitting here like...why am I even bothering?
I can tell you when I was a teenager the boyfriend was EVERYTHING. Relationships indeed were everything to me until I got into Al anon. I certainly would not have been able to tolerate anyone suggesting being out of one.
I dont doubt your daughter notices you #bothered# about her
One of.my big faults with therapy was everything shuts down around the holidays Then the therapists will ask how you are going to manage. These days I can be light hearted about it but I certainly felt abandoned most holidays
Being around someone who is involved in substance abuse often divides up families one of the characteristics is chaos. That is why al anon is so helpful in learning how to detach and focus on not reacting (which us extremely difficult).
You are in all the right places with being in al anon and being able to talk about what is coming up for you.
I am so grateful to be a men er of al.anon.
Maresie
The therapist and counselors have absolutely seen and experienced every kind of lie, manipulation of facts and deflection of blame and responsibility we can imagine. They dont often take things at face value. There will be an opportunity for you and your husband to talk privately with the case worker and perhaps therapist to give your side.
I alto know that when the immediate goal is getting someone out of crisis, a therapist would not directly confront a patients lies (or false excuses for why they are in the situation they are in). Their whole jug right now is to get her stable emotionally, psychologicall, mentally and physically - to keep her safe. When they get through that initial psych-hold process, then they will start talking therapy sessions, including family therapy.
My suggestion is to only focus on the Next Right Step. Whether that is information gathering (medical records, insurance contacts), or reading up on suicidal tendencies in teenagers focusing on the very next thing to do (and not the other 50 that will come your way in the coking weeks), allows you to stay in the present, for options to present themselves at the appropriate time and not having anxiety worrying about an unknown future.
See, you can only find solutions when you know the problem you are addressing and have all the pertinent information. By worrying about what to do for a problem you dont fully understand yet, and the options that may be possible, you set yourself up for a very stressful ride.
what I want for you is to slow down and breathe, and when you get super stressed, slow down and breathe some More. When you talk to anyone at the hospital next, ask them if there is anything that you should be doing as they work to,get her settled in and ultimately prepare for s treatment plan. Tell them it can be chasing down records, whatever. But it may just help you feel like you are doing something.
I am sending lots of love and hope your way.
Susan
-- Edited by Kcsnooze on Friday 28th of December 2018 11:02:05 PM
MaresIve,
You are so rifht. At that age, boys are everything.
Pol,
You may consider a compromise on the boyfriend issue. Kids do date a lot younger that we did.
But there can be age appropriate dating. Such as, activities like going to the movies must be accompanied by a group of friends. No hanging out amhones houses without a parent or a responsibility adult being present. No overnight trips with his family (yes, they do ask that these days). My daughter was asked several times when she was 14-15 to go on a skiing trip with 8 hours away. Eventually, we sat down and negotiated a dating contract for her. all these are ideas.
There were many times when I felt like I had lost my daughter forever when she began her descent into addiction. I never gave up on her or us though. There continues to be many tough times but they are less and I am able to handle them better.
Its ok to take a break for yourself to regroup. I know that I became so stressed and overwhelmed that I could not think myself out of anything let alone make any good decisions for myself or my family at that time.
JFT she is alive, there is hope and a lot can change in a short period of time. Hugs.
Our program tools really helped me greatly. Especially the slogans. There were many times that I wanted to 'quit' on my kid(s), walk away, etc. It just felt like the 'only answer' in the moment. Lovely program friends and sponsor kept reminding me that we really, really try to live one day at a time. I was given permission to 'quit' just for that day.
Ultimately, I really had no choice but to let go - not of them but of my expectations. I had this idea that my kids would respect me because I birthed them. I had this expectation they would follow rules because I housed them. I had this idea that they would finish HS and then go to college. I could list a million more ideas, expectations, projections I had - and I had to let all of them go, and really focus on this day, my health and how I could be of service. It was unbelievable difficult and seemed really unfair, yet it was absolutely necessary for my own sanity and theirs as well.
I also had to admit that I was not equipped to handle, manage or even deal with the issues they were experiencing. Allowing the professionals to lead the discussions, plans, etc. for treatment - even when I disagreed - became necessary and was terrifying at times. I felt very inadequate, as I believed that as a mom, I should know best (my ego)....which wasn't always the case.
I really made an effort to shake off the negative energy each morning upon awakening. I prayed for the strength to stay in this one day only, and to PAUSE always to PRAY before PROCEEDING. I had to do a ton of tongue biting as my boys views of our home life and mine varied GREATLY. We did survive it all, and things are better - far still from my expectations - but progress is a ton better than not.
Be gentle with you. Let go of expectations and try to stay in the moment. Lean into recovery as best you can, and try to not take it personally even when it's directed right at you...sending tons of prayers!
I've just been trying my hardest not to take everything personally. I know she still loves me because she was so upset last night after we argued. I'm finding more and more out while I'm here and she's there. I'm trying to make it through the layers of her depression and lying. Everyone keeps telling me that it hasn't been that long at all and that I should be able to break through at some point but I honestly feel like the program is flawed because I have to keep bothering the therapists and nurses to give me insight on how she's doing. The biggest problem I'm facing is that it seems like once I uncover something about her, something that i should know...she just shuts down and refuses to talk. Her defense is that I'm the problem etc. but its like well its my way or no way at all and that's it. I still don't understand the thinking behind that one and that scares me because I could see how she has impulse control if she's still throwing around suicide.
It's scary. I'm trying not to give up but my self esteem is super low. My husband is just so sad, we don't know how to deal with this.
Somebody suggested to me that God doesn't make mistakes, and perhaps he placed my 2 boys with me as he knew I could handle it. I literally wanted to smack this person, but practiced restraint. In looking back, I believe there is some truth to this - as painful as our experiences here were, we did all get to the other side, learned many lessons and grew more individually and as a family.
Keep coming back, keep an open mind and keep being gentle. You are not alone!
I'm sorry this is happening - it is very stressful. I second the others in saying that getting professional counselors involved as much as possible could be extremely helpful - if we could solve all these problems ourselves they'd already be solved, right? I think we've all been in that situation. I know when I'm in a time of high stress, my thinking tends to be very much all-or-nothing, and I wonder if there is some of that going on. I well know the importance of setting boundaries with dysfunctional family. But my thought is that right now, taking a position of "If she has anything to do with the dysfunctional family, then I will not interact with her," increases the intensity of the situation. And really what would benefit everyone is de-escalating a bit and letting things get calmer and letting her find her way back to you, emotionally as well as physically. When stress is high, people also tend to polarize: one person says "I'm going to do this thing and you can't stop me!" and the other person reacts with "If you do this thing then I'll have nothing to do with you!" and the first person says, "If you say that then I'll never deal with you again!" and everyone gets in their corners and it gets hard to reach out and find harmony and compromise. My guess (having been a difficult teen myself) is that she badly wants help and love and for you to reach out, even if she is all fury and self-righteousness. And I'd imagine one reason she hangs onto the boyfriend so hard is that she sees him as another source of love, which she is craving so much. Teen brains are not good at compromise, but fortunately adults can see straighter and make the first steps at coming out of the corner. People threaten suicide when they don't see other ways out. I know it must be a big and sad and horrible shock that she has thought of these things. But maybe more ways forward would help her see that there are options for her. Take very good care of yourself too. None of this is easy, heaven knows. Hugs.
I want to sit back and say that it will all work out but I cant say that right now. Shes still angry but not as bad, we have been able to hold a conversation without any judgment and fighting. We had a family therapy session and shes pretty aware of some things that the therapist had to set her straight on. Im very worried about my family because they have just been causing a lot of side issues when we should be focusing on the stuff at hand.
One day at a time.
Staying in the moment.
Pol it is a disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions and very very few of us come or came prepared for it. You are not the healer or savior because you don't know and don't know you don't know how it bafflingly moves up and down, in and out, round and round. When I came to understand the truth of that myself I quit trying to fix it or solve it or make it different except just for me.
Our program has lots of tools and solutions I can focus on and learn instead of trying new and different ways to beat the disease and remake my alcoholics and addicts into the miracles I think they should be. The impossible task made even more impossible.
What could I do instead? Go get myself fixed one day at a time.
How much weight would you take off your spirit and heart when you let go of your daughter? How much does she weigh and place on her feet? (((((hugs)))))
seems to me you see that...Good on you...Keep coming back...Keep loving on and working on you.......