Need ESH on worrying about my influence on others' moods
atheos said
Dec 12, 2018
My sister has severe mental health issues, and it is very easy for something to tip her into a downward spiral.
After I had a phonecall with her that seemed completely harmless to me, she has gone into a really terrible mood, and mom is being very distant with me. (They live together, I don't live with them.) I've danced this dance enough times to know that this means I've done something wrong and hurt or upset my sister, but I have no idea what I did wrong. (I definitely did not do any nagging/pestering/controlling - we only talked about harmless subjects like cats and television.) Maybe I talked too much about cats and didn't show enough interest in how her day went?
On the one hand, I feel terrible that I apparently said or did something that hurt her. On the other hand, I feel resentment that she is so fragile that I have to tiptoe around her moods, and that mom is being distant with me when I don't even know what I did wrong (but whatever it was is probably something that would not have been a big deal if I had done it with anyone except my sister.)
I know I can't be responsible for someone else's moods, but I can't seem to get this whole situation out of my head now. Anybody got any 12-step wisdom or ESH (experience, strength, and hope) you can share on the subject?
mamalioness said
Dec 12, 2018
Hi, I can see by your post that you "know" it, but when its family , it is always tough..I'm sorry your mom is being distant with you...Seems mom's always protect the child who is compromised, not realizing that BOTH of you need her love..Again, family!!!
I have a youngest brother who is just plain crazy from the drugs he does....HIS issues are self inflicted, but nevertheless, he is mentally ill..Severly so and it translates to lewd , inappropriate comments, thinking he is being stalked by so and so and that hes going to be murdered at any day, and on and on and on....I feel compassion for him, but I absolutely had to detach from him..In my life..In my head..No conversations anymore from him , in fact hes been MIA (lives on the streets with the other hard drug users) now for MONTHS , I mean NOBODY knows where he is, alive?? deceased?? Noone knows...
I just focus on me..my program...the loved ones I CAN help, doing my service work on MIP and doing what I CAN do and letting to what I CANT do...
Sounds to me like your convo with sis was innocent enough, but in HER mind, perhaps not?? NOT your issue..NOT your problem and NOT anything you can fix
If my brother wasn't missing and wanted to further talk with me, I would NOT!!!! his lewd and disgusting way of communicating is a trigger so for me?? its an easy choice...Stay away!! Detach!!! NO communication with him!!! I can't help him..Hes too far gone and never wanted to go into rehab /NA 12 steps, so I had to let him go
as for your sister?? I dont' know too much detail, so its hard to really give ESH, but no matter what!!! We didn't Cause their issues...We cannot control their issues and we aint gonna cure them....so loving detachment..minimizing conversations....being kind and loving, but very generic and just plain kindness would be my take on this
I'm glad you are here ..Alanon helps us keep the focus on the one being we CAN help!!! US!!!! the slogans "keep the focus on me" is there for a reason..We can't change others..we can't get into their heads and rearrage their thinking...All we can do is give them peace and love , if they are safe to be around, and let go and let God..
I know it hurts especially mom being distant..Its gotta be hard on her having a girl whose compromised and having to deal with her..I dont' know what her condition is, but anything dealing with mental illness is so hard for a parent to cope with...They want to protect..they want to help them...they take on their problems as their own
I would just be kind, but keep a safe boundary and work my program..work on me...focus on me...write down all the things that you can say "thank you" to the universe (always picks up a blue mood) and do something really nice for yourself...I like a big bubble bath if I am not going to the gym for a swim (swimming mellows me out really nice) but do something kind for yourself....
judging by your post, you care a great deal and you feel bad for your sister but you can't take on her perceptions and her issues...Sounds to me like you did your best to NOT trigger her, kept convo nice and friendly...what SHE makes of it is not your issue...If you know in your heart, you did your best to be a loving, attentive, interested , kind sister, then you got nothing to feel bad about...I know!!! Its hard!!! but family or not, we do our best..and if it isn't good enough?? Oh well!!!
Please keep coming back...sorry I didn't offer much, but w/out much detail, I did my best with the info I saw...
sending peace and light energy
SerenityRUS said
Dec 12, 2018
I think for me when it comes to certain people or specific situations my perceptions get more skewed than the other person. I am responsible for what I say (say what I mean mean what i say don't say it mean) their perception isn't my issue. Mental health struggles are tricky. I know in my life there are some people I can't have certain conversations with. It doesn't mean I don't love them or vise versa ... it means i choose to stay out of the minefields when I know they are .. from time to time i find one i didn't know was there .. I don't know if that makes sense or not. Having a kid that's in the LGBTQ community I know i'm not having that conversation with someone whos unwilling to try to have an open mind. I have a lot of people in my life who are religious and I can have that conversation with .. some people can't and that's not my battle .. i have to find my own discernment though and with family that's hard stuff. It sounds like you are asking the right questions and moving forward .. keep doing you .. it does sound like you found someone else's trigger. You recognized it .. you can't be responsible for someone else's mental health it helps me to redirect the conversation .. it is my choice to close the conversation down. Hugs s :)
Iamhere said
Dec 13, 2018
When I am troubled over a situation, and uncertain what my part is/was, I love to read/reflect/pray on the Just For Today bookmark. It is in recovery that I learned I don't have a crystal ball nor am I a mind reader. The same is true in reverse - nobody can know what's in my mind/heart unless I make an effort to share. We are blessed as we do have a program to help us move forward in difficult times. Many others do not. I no longer try to chase answers from others, instead ask God to direct my actions and thinking so I my better be of service to others.
What I've come to accept is I am not in charge of resolving every potential conflict in my life, family, etc. I can show up as the best version of me, and hope all goes well but at the end of the day, since we are all imperfect, there will be challenges! It's how I respond to those that matters for my own sanity/serenity. More often than not, I do end up letting Go and letting God.
Hang in there - family is so darn perplexing! Most put the fun in dysfunction and button pushing is 'sport'. Just keep doing you, focus on you and more will be revealed!!
Maresie said
Dec 13, 2018
I think it is very hard to be around someone who is triggered. The issue you that you are not psychic
I know the grief of having an impaired sister. One of my sisters is a classic alcoholic. There is a lot of grief involved in having a dysfunctional family. The grief is multiplied at this time because we are all bombarded with these images of the perfect family by media.
I have my own issues with triggers. I have to be careful at certain times of the year Christmas being one of them. I have to set up more boundaries for myself. I also have to avoid stress. Taking care of ourselves is a hard one.
Maresie
DavidG said
Dec 14, 2018
Hi Atheos,
often we talk about "walking on eggshells"... ...or, "walking on broken glass".
Meaning... no matter what we do, we are going to get it wrong. ...
We end up feeling responsible for everything and everyone, sometimes- because there are no boundaries...
being in a drinking or addictive family system will do this to just about anyone.
I just go out for "one day at a time..."... getting into situations where we can have healthy adult to adult conversations will help us clarify situations like this- over time.
Getting into an Alanon group is a great help. We aren't perfect, of course- but at least we are on the right path... ...
je m'appelle David G.
-- Edited by DavidG on Friday 14th of December 2018 12:08:06 AM
canadianguy said
Dec 14, 2018
"what you think of me is none of my business" is such a powerful statement/tool, and quite possibly one of the hardest we Al-Anoners struggle with....
We are not mind readers, and I can literally "feel" how much angst and stress you are feeling over this perceived wrongdoing.
Sorry for what you are going through, but can you see the impracticality of 'guessing' at what you could have possibly done to get under the skin of either your sister, mother, or both?
They are unhealthy - that is their issue.
You can choose to be healthy, and the closer you can get to "what you think of me is none of my business" is an excellent measuring stick for how you are progressing.
Hugs
Tom
2HP said
Dec 14, 2018
My struggle in difficult relationships is not so much that they do what they do, but that I react the way I react.
When people are unkind to me or when groups ice me out, my self-esteem and emotional security can become triggered.
I am not guilty or a failure just because people accuse me of it. Somewhere in our literature it asks if our guilt is earned or unearned? Are they projecting something on me that I did not earn? My real problem is when I start believing them. I can ask myself, is anything they think of me TRUE?
If its true, it gives me something to work with. If it's not true, my problem is simply that I'm believing their garbage. the problem is not them, it's ME and I have a choice.
Deepening my work in step 2 helps me remember where true self-esteem and emotional security come from... brings me back to sanity so I can enjoy a blissful day in the practice of step 3 ideas.
Today when they do what they do, I can think to myself, "Thank you for being so consistent" because it builds consistency in my personal recovery thoughts and actions.
I remember joking around with my sponsor once, begging her to just wave a magic wand and make me feel detached... like a spiritual giant!!! Even though we were joking around, I was quite bummed when she said these experiences have to happen. They have to happen so that I can change for real. they are valuable "opportunities" for flexing recovery muscles, not the obstacles I perceive them to be.
Avoidance is not a permanent solution for me, not if I keep praying for HP to change me, lol! With that prayer, the tests are indeed going to come! How else could it be done?
So I thank you for your post and all the enlightening replies, Together, we can remember not to take anything personal today.
-- Edited by 2HP on Friday 14th of December 2018 01:11:54 PM
-- Edited by 2HP on Friday 14th of December 2018 01:40:20 PM
tiredtonite said
Dec 17, 2018
I think most of us can find ourselves in a place of wondering what we might have said or done to set another person off. But the kind of stonewalling you are experiencing from your sister and your mother is not something you deserve. Others can try to control us with their moods, make us their scapegoat for their personal unhappiness. I like your comparision of your sis/mom behavior to an emotional dance. You have the awareness that comes with program to realize this really has nothing to do with you. And despite your sis' mental health issues, there is still a strong possibility that she is getting mileage out her behavior from others. Perhaps there is no "right" or "wrong" thing to say to her. If one chooses to make a case against another person to seek attention that can be happen even if you tell the person you hope they have a good day. At times like these, when I cannot release these "what did I do to deserve this" thinking; I will reading some reading on obsession, pray the Serenity Prayer, speak with sponor or others in the program, go to a meeting or two and most importantly... not engage with the person/people with whom I'm having the problem. I typically have to feel emotionally ready for any sort of conversation to take place.
When I was new to this program, I felt an exaggerated sense of responsibility for the problems of others. I was being blamed and scratched my head and questioned whether I had indeed done something to cause the problem. Alanon gives us the 3 Cs I didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure it. I soon learned that I didn't have to walk on eggshells. Alanon also tells us we can be true to ourselves. To Thine Own Self Be True. You have a right to be authentic, be yourself. If I choose to manipulate myself to fit with others, I am no longer myself. I am then controlled by the disease/illness of others. Being true to ourselves, recovering instead of falling into old family roles of caretaking and ignoring our own needs can be met with resistance from other family members. It's my job to choose to continue to respond to this with new healthy behaviors that I've learned in Alanon. I can have empathy, compassion for others but if my expression of it enmeshed with basically throwing myself under the bus to continue to have their acceptance; I'm not working my program. Today, I take a moment to consider whether any sort of explanation or apology is due someone rather than instantly apologizing.
When met with unfair accusations, I can pute JADE into action. I can listen but not justify, argue, defend or explain as a defense to what I'm being accused of. I may express and often do how much that person means to me but I am careful these days not to engage in any attention seeking of others and feed that behavior. I think most people have some ability to regulate their emotions if not on their own with the help of a medical provider. I refuse to wear other people's moods. Hope you will do something nurturing for yourself today and can find a way to refocus to self love. (((hugs)) TT
PosiesandPuppies said
Dec 17, 2018
I really liked what your shared, T2T... I also tended to "wear other people's moods." I am learning that it is "OK" to allow their moods to wash OVER me... they do not need to reside there! Now I can actually imagine that, and put into practice... I never could before.
Thank you for your ESH!
Peace & Love
KT2015 said
Dec 17, 2018
I feel you on your post atheos. I grew up in a household where I had to guess what I did to upset my mother and how to make it up and if I guessed wrong there was a lot of upset. It was exhausting trying to read minds and always kept me on the eggshells until I found this program. In Al Anon I started to learn to judge for myself I felt I did anything wrong and if I didn't I would let it go. If I did feel I did something wrong I could make amends and also move on from it.
My mom is also not the best at directly telling me if she is upset with me. She drops hints, denies anything is wrong when there is. I can relate to her behaviour because before my recovery I was the same way and I was that way because I didn't know how to express my feelings, I wanted to avoid conflict and I wanted to maintain the peace outside myself (while inside myself there was a raging storm). I've started to ask her directly if there is something wrong. If she denies there is something wrong I do my best to let go and let God. Just like I have the right to not discuss everything that is bothering me with everyone I am bothered by so does she. I do my best to move forward and get back to normal myself.
My sister has severe mental health issues, and it is very easy for something to tip her into a downward spiral.
After I had a phonecall with her that seemed completely harmless to me, she has gone into a really terrible mood, and mom is being very distant with me. (They live together, I don't live with them.) I've danced this dance enough times to know that this means I've done something wrong and hurt or upset my sister, but I have no idea what I did wrong. (I definitely did not do any nagging/pestering/controlling - we only talked about harmless subjects like cats and television.) Maybe I talked too much about cats and didn't show enough interest in how her day went?
On the one hand, I feel terrible that I apparently said or did something that hurt her. On the other hand, I feel resentment that she is so fragile that I have to tiptoe around her moods, and that mom is being distant with me when I don't even know what I did wrong (but whatever it was is probably something that would not have been a big deal if I had done it with anyone except my sister.)
I know I can't be responsible for someone else's moods, but I can't seem to get this whole situation out of my head now. Anybody got any 12-step wisdom or ESH (experience, strength, and hope) you can share on the subject?
I have a youngest brother who is just plain crazy from the drugs he does....HIS issues are self inflicted, but nevertheless, he is mentally ill..Severly so and it translates to lewd , inappropriate comments, thinking he is being stalked by so and so and that hes going to be murdered at any day, and on and on and on....I feel compassion for him, but I absolutely had to detach from him..In my life..In my head..No conversations anymore from him , in fact hes been MIA (lives on the streets with the other hard drug users) now for MONTHS , I mean NOBODY knows where he is, alive?? deceased?? Noone knows...
I just focus on me..my program...the loved ones I CAN help, doing my service work on MIP and doing what I CAN do and letting to what I CANT do...
Sounds to me like your convo with sis was innocent enough, but in HER mind, perhaps not?? NOT your issue..NOT your problem and NOT anything you can fix
If my brother wasn't missing and wanted to further talk with me, I would NOT!!!! his lewd and disgusting way of communicating is a trigger so for me?? its an easy choice...Stay away!! Detach!!! NO communication with him!!! I can't help him..Hes too far gone and never wanted to go into rehab /NA 12 steps, so I had to let him go
as for your sister?? I dont' know too much detail, so its hard to really give ESH, but no matter what!!! We didn't Cause their issues...We cannot control their issues and we aint gonna cure them....so loving detachment..minimizing conversations....being kind and loving, but very generic and just plain kindness would be my take on this
I'm glad you are here ..Alanon helps us keep the focus on the one being we CAN help!!! US!!!! the slogans "keep the focus on me" is there for a reason..We can't change others..we can't get into their heads and rearrage their thinking...All we can do is give them peace and love , if they are safe to be around, and let go and let God..
I know it hurts especially mom being distant..Its gotta be hard on her having a girl whose compromised and having to deal with her..I dont' know what her condition is, but anything dealing with mental illness is so hard for a parent to cope with...They want to protect..they want to help them...they take on their problems as their own
I would just be kind, but keep a safe boundary and work my program..work on me...focus on me...write down all the things that you can say "thank you" to the universe (always picks up a blue mood) and do something really nice for yourself...I like a big bubble bath if I am not going to the gym for a swim (swimming mellows me out really nice) but do something kind for yourself....
judging by your post, you care a great deal and you feel bad for your sister but you can't take on her perceptions and her issues...Sounds to me like you did your best to NOT trigger her, kept convo nice and friendly...what SHE makes of it is not your issue...If you know in your heart, you did your best to be a loving, attentive, interested , kind sister, then you got nothing to feel bad about...I know!!! Its hard!!! but family or not, we do our best..and if it isn't good enough?? Oh well!!!
Please keep coming back...sorry I didn't offer much, but w/out much detail, I did my best with the info I saw...
sending peace and light energy
What I've come to accept is I am not in charge of resolving every potential conflict in my life, family, etc. I can show up as the best version of me, and hope all goes well but at the end of the day, since we are all imperfect, there will be challenges! It's how I respond to those that matters for my own sanity/serenity. More often than not, I do end up letting Go and letting God.
Hang in there - family is so darn perplexing! Most put the fun in dysfunction and button pushing is 'sport'. Just keep doing you, focus on you and more will be revealed!!
Hi Atheos,
often we talk about "walking on eggshells"... ...or, "walking on broken glass".
Meaning... no matter what we do, we are going to get it wrong.
...
We end up feeling responsible for everything and everyone, sometimes- because there are no boundaries...
being in a drinking or addictive family system will do this to just about anyone.
I just go out for "one day at a time..."... getting into situations where we can have healthy adult to adult conversations will help us clarify situations like this- over time.
Getting into an Alanon group is a great help. We aren't perfect, of course- but at least we are on the right path...
...
je m'appelle David G.
-- Edited by DavidG on Friday 14th of December 2018 12:08:06 AM
"what you think of me is none of my business" is such a powerful statement/tool, and quite possibly one of the hardest we Al-Anoners struggle with....
We are not mind readers, and I can literally "feel" how much angst and stress you are feeling over this perceived wrongdoing.
Sorry for what you are going through, but can you see the impracticality of 'guessing' at what you could have possibly done to get under the skin of either your sister, mother, or both?
They are unhealthy - that is their issue.
You can choose to be healthy, and the closer you can get to "what you think of me is none of my business" is an excellent measuring stick for how you are progressing.
Hugs
Tom
My struggle in difficult relationships is not so much that they do what they do, but that I react the way I react.
When people are unkind to me or when groups ice me out, my self-esteem and emotional security can become triggered.
I am not guilty or a failure just because people accuse me of it. Somewhere in our literature it asks if our guilt is earned or unearned? Are they projecting something on me that I did not earn? My real problem is when I start believing them. I can ask myself, is anything they think of me TRUE?
If its true, it gives me something to work with. If it's not true, my problem is simply that I'm believing their garbage. the problem is not them, it's ME and I have a choice.
Deepening my work in step 2 helps me remember where true self-esteem and emotional security come from... brings me back to sanity so I can enjoy a blissful day in the practice of step 3 ideas.
Today when they do what they do, I can think to myself, "Thank you for being so consistent" because it builds consistency in my personal recovery thoughts and actions.
I remember joking around with my sponsor once, begging her to just wave a magic wand and make me feel detached... like a spiritual giant!!! Even though we were joking around, I was quite bummed when she said these experiences have to happen. They have to happen so that I can change for real. they are valuable "opportunities" for flexing recovery muscles, not the obstacles I perceive them to be.
Avoidance is not a permanent solution for me, not if I keep praying for HP to change me, lol! With that prayer, the tests are indeed going to come! How else could it be done?
So I thank you for your post and all the enlightening replies, Together, we can remember not to take anything personal today.
-- Edited by 2HP on Friday 14th of December 2018 01:11:54 PM
-- Edited by 2HP on Friday 14th of December 2018 01:40:20 PM
I think most of us can find ourselves in a place of wondering what we might have said or done to set another person off. But the kind of stonewalling you are experiencing from your sister and your mother is not something you deserve. Others can try to control us with their moods, make us their scapegoat for their personal unhappiness. I like your comparision of your sis/mom behavior to an emotional dance. You have the awareness that comes with program to realize this really has nothing to do with you. And despite your sis' mental health issues, there is still a strong possibility that she is getting mileage out her behavior from others. Perhaps there is no "right" or "wrong" thing to say to her. If one chooses to make a case against another person to seek attention that can be happen even if you tell the person you hope they have a good day. At times like these, when I cannot release these "what did I do to deserve this" thinking; I will reading some reading on obsession, pray the Serenity Prayer, speak with sponor or others in the program, go to a meeting or two and most importantly... not engage with the person/people with whom I'm having the problem. I typically have to feel emotionally ready for any sort of conversation to take place.
When I was new to this program, I felt an exaggerated sense of responsibility for the problems of others. I was being blamed and scratched my head and questioned whether I had indeed done something to cause the problem. Alanon gives us the 3 Cs I didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure it. I soon learned that I didn't have to walk on eggshells. Alanon also tells us we can be true to ourselves. To Thine Own Self Be True. You have a right to be authentic, be yourself. If I choose to manipulate myself to fit with others, I am no longer myself. I am then controlled by the disease/illness of others. Being true to ourselves, recovering instead of falling into old family roles of caretaking and ignoring our own needs can be met with resistance from other family members. It's my job to choose to continue to respond to this with new healthy behaviors that I've learned in Alanon. I can have empathy, compassion for others but if my expression of it enmeshed with basically throwing myself under the bus to continue to have their acceptance; I'm not working my program. Today, I take a moment to consider whether any sort of explanation or apology is due someone rather than instantly apologizing.
When met with unfair accusations, I can pute JADE into action. I can listen but not justify, argue, defend or explain as a defense to what I'm being accused of. I may express and often do how much that person means to me but I am careful these days not to engage in any attention seeking of others and feed that behavior. I think most people have some ability to regulate their emotions if not on their own with the help of a medical provider. I refuse to wear other people's moods. Hope you will do something nurturing for yourself today and can find a way to refocus to self love. (((hugs)) TT
Thank you for your ESH!
Peace & Love
My mom is also not the best at directly telling me if she is upset with me. She drops hints, denies anything is wrong when there is. I can relate to her behaviour because before my recovery I was the same way and I was that way because I didn't know how to express my feelings, I wanted to avoid conflict and I wanted to maintain the peace outside myself (while inside myself there was a raging storm). I've started to ask her directly if there is something wrong. If she denies there is something wrong I do my best to let go and let God. Just like I have the right to not discuss everything that is bothering me with everyone I am bothered by so does she. I do my best to move forward and get back to normal myself.
You're doing great.