Al-Anon Family Group

I invaded his privacy- his inventory

gloves808 said
Nov 16, 2018

Hi everyone. So, this will be my first time doing anything regarding al-anon. I joined my bf on two regular AA meetings about 4 years ago to get an idea of what he was going through. My boyfriend and I have been together for over 7 years. I saw him struggle, fall, and get sober again during all this time. I've seen a huge transformation. We hit a rough patch the year before he got sober. His drinking was at its worst then.

He's really turned his life around and is a certified teacher in a high school. It seems like he's growing all the time. He's really been able to help me too with my own health issues. Also helping me with my dad who was just diagnosed with prostate cancer 2 weeks ago. We both have become so much more spiritual too since he's gotten sober. We just have a strong relationship.

Anyway, we have been going long-distance. The last time we did long distance was 3 years ago and he was freshly sober. I own the house we lived in currently, and I'm working as best I can to prepare it for sale. Sometimes I take breaks and rummage through books/notebooks and stuff. It's both my stuff and his that I sit and read. Reflect. I've told him that I do that, and he's okay with it. I found something else before that was personal, but it was beautifully written. I told him I'm sorry, I read it, he said it was really okay.

Then...yesterday, I was cleaning a bunch of his stuff. He kind of is a hoarder. He keeps so many papers/receipts/empty boxes. I have to go through his things so I make sure I don't toss anything of major importance. Important stuff mixed in with mail that is 3+ years ago. Did I mention he's not tidy? Lol. Well, anyway, I found his moral/sex inventory. I thought, oh, there it is. I just kind of flipped through it quick... that is until I saw some women's names I recognized. Then from there, I just couldn't stop. It was heavy. He says I know everything about him, but I really didn't know his sexual past at all. He knows all of mine because it isn't very long.

Now, it's today, and I'm still bothered by what I found. He has names and sex acts listed w/ all the women who I always thought were just platonic friends. All the women who he was hanging out with back when he was really deep in with his alcoholism, he had intimate relations with before. Oral and actual sex giving and receiving. It makes me rethink the whole beginning and middle of our relationship. He even had down that he slept with a previous girlfriend who was sleeping. This really bothers me. IDK whether that is just guilt on the page why he's calling it "sleeping", but I'm pretty sure when you have sex with someone who is "sleeping," they are incapacitated? Isn't that rape? There is no consent there?

My bf told me if I ever wanted to, I could talk to his sponsor about stuff. I would, but I don't think he's the right person. I felt like starting at a board like this might be a good decision. I really need help. I did invade his privacy. Thank you.

Freetime said
Nov 16, 2018

Welcome, Gloves808! I'm sorry you are going through this stress. I don't have any experience with what you've just experienced, but I wanted to you know that someone has read your post. Stay tuned, and other wise members of MIP will come along with experience, strength and hope.

gloves808 said
Nov 16, 2018

Hi Freetime, thanks for responding. I look forward to others' inputs as I'm really in a dilemma. I've always liked writing on boards, and I hope to find others who really understand. Obviously I betrayed his trust, but then, I have questions over some things to help me understand. If in fact something did happen.... rape.... that really makes me question our entire relationship. I need more information from him... but I don't know how to broach the topic. "Hey babe, while you were gone all week, whether you wanted to share with me or not, I read your entire moral/sex inventory! Let's talk!"

Obviously I want to be sensitive to him, but I also need to be strong for myself and protect my values. I know what's important is what is happening in the present. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. But, I have no idea how to go about talking to him about this. I'm scared of what could be the truth. Then again, perhaps it is nothing. Perhaps I don't understand. All I have is his detailed inventory.... I am grateful he is no longer that person, but it is really eye-opening as to how much this disease of alcoholism has hurt others he knew. And me. And him.

I realized I forgot to mention that he will be 4 years sober in February.

My hope to have some advice on what to do from here. I am nervous... and scared. Thanks.

SerenityRUS said
Nov 16, 2018

Hi gloves,

I wanted to welcome you. I hope you keep coming back.

Hugs S :)

JerryF said
Nov 16, 2018

Aloha Gloves and welcome to the board and hopefully to the Al-Anon Family Groups. So you are facing yourself right now and not liking that you invaded his privacy which to me suggest that "this woman has some principles". I do also and had to learn in program not to just have them and also to work them. An early sponsor gave me tools and encouragement with hints and his own ESH. One of the best slogans he impressed upon me was..."When in doubt DON'T". I got the benefit of that one quick as I knew that slogan would keep me out of trouble quickly.

Early on in our relationship my alcoholic/addict wife wondered if it would be so bad and ok having relationships (include sexual) with others. While not going along with this idea I did understand since she spoke of it that it would happen and left it alone. It invaded my privacy because I constantly worried about it and then acquired an STD from her. Had I behaved the "Don't" of the slogan things would have been different I believe.

How would it have come about had you not? When I include my sponsor and Higher Power and the groups within my recovery my sanity gets well along with my life. Keep coming back. ((((hugs)))) smile

gloves808 said
Nov 16, 2018

Hi Jerry! Thank you for writing. You mentioned ESH... what does that stand for?

That is definitely good advice, when in doubt... don't!

To give more background, we did establish monogamy from the get-go 7 years ago. He wanted to be monogamous. I was cautious at opening my heart up again because of my ex prior to him. My ex pretty much broke me. It was an abusive relationship.

With my current relationship, when we started, I took it slow, and put my foot down over some flags I saw early on. Today, after reading his inventory, I'm so happy that my former self did this. Also, it's strange, after the few times we did long distance, he would hang out with mostly other women. He was giving me a bad feeling then, and they were too. They put everything out on twitter at the time (flirting outrightly). He tried to hide it from me after I confronted him. He made amends to me for not investing himself in our relationship more during that time. Though, now I know it's not the whole story. Now I know all the girls he was hanging out with, he had very intimate relations with them. He was using them for self-esteem. A few of them developed feelings for him, and he led them on. But most seriously though, the possible rape of a previous gf. I feel like I want to know if she's okay and if she knows that he "had sex with her while she slept" as his inventory states. As a female, this really bothers me.

And I remember little things again. Like, if you have ever seen the film "Kids," there is a rape of a girl who is unconscious. He showed me this movie the first year we dated, and he really liked it. I thought it was disturbing as it was graphic. Now, I wonder if he felt sympathetic to the male of the story who committed rape? Did he realize that's what it was? And perhaps he always remember my reaction. I did cry during that movie and it bothered me for a couple days.

Jerry, responding to your question and challenging myself.. how would this information had come about if I had not invaded his privacy. I don't think it ever would have come up. Reflecting back, there have been so many opportunities for him to share more on this part of his life. So many situations in which he could have, but a decision was made by him not to go there. I wouldn't have been able to open up that door myself because I don't think I'd ever ask "have you ever had sex with someone who was unconscious?"

Iamhere said
Nov 16, 2018

Hey gloves808 - welcome to MIP....I am not proud to admit this but I stumbled upon my son's 4th step once upon a time. It was out in front of me open and 'screaming' read me!!!

Well - the curious mom in me did start and then I backed away when I hit something that was extremely unsettling. I can't say it was 'me' that stepped back - I do believe it was a divine intervention as the 'me I know' would have rather keep reading.

My best thoughts are seek Al-Anon recovery for your self. Within the group, you'll be able to share where you are, what's happened and probably here ESH (Experience, Strength & Hope) from others with similar experiences. After my experience, I had to tell on myself to my sponsor (we get/have them too) and we decided based on the ugliness at the time in the relationship to not disclose.

I do know that before my own recovery, I spent way too much time trying to manage, fix, deal, etc. all of life's problems. Today, I feel we are designed to be imperfect and we just do the best we can, one day at a time. Give yourself a break, and seek out your own recovery. It's been a game changer for me!

Keep coming back - it works when we work it! Glad you are here.

gloves808 said
Nov 16, 2018

So, as there is with AA/NA, there is al-anon recovery also? Not just the group? And you work steps within it? Probably very similar steps, but worded differently? I feel like it's finally time for me to seek it out. I have already looked up meeting times in my area, but I have a crud car with bad mileage. No al-anon meetings in town, half hour away.

Ever since my bf went through the steps, I thought the AA/NA program always sounded wonderful. It would be good for everyone, I thought. I had health issues and took up meditating almost a year ago, and I feel like it is a game-changer. I'm reading the Tao of Pooh, and all sorts of books that my bf found out about while working the program. They are extremely helpful.

Thanks everyone for being so welcoming and kind. I started to look at the al-anon website today but haven't been able to go very far into it since I felt really bad today (migraine+plus optometry appointment and had eyes dilated), and felt nauseated! On top of it, just getting emotionally hijacked. It was like a constant narration in my head over so much. I've meditated 3 times today just to get maintain control of myself time and time again. Plus a hot bath. So stressed out, started spotting (not due for another month!!). Sorry TMI for some people but it's my reality at this time.

After the bath and meditation, I feel better. Drained, but better. My bf is coming back tonight after having not seen him since last Sunday. He called me while I was in the tub, and I honestly cried after he called me. Meditated again. Just keep breathing. Just keep breathing. Focus on the breath and right now. Things seem so rough when you don't feel good.

At this time, I think I need to sort through my feelings on what I found. I feel like it would be really unfair of me to broach the topic with him at this juncture. I need better tools in my toolbox.

Ok, feeling better. Give myself a break. Give myself a break. Give myself a break.

SerenityRUS said
Nov 16, 2018

There are a few things that come to mind after reading your post, when in doubt don't .. I never do my best talking when I am emotionally charged positive or negative.

As far as meetings, .. there are many options for meetings .. we have online meetings here and there are phone in meetings. For more information on phone in meetings there is an Alanon WSO website that will hook you in directly. There are ways around real time meetings. The whole "I can't" I don't buy .. it is a choice to work a program or not work a program and you are the only one who can decide what you want to do. I hope you will because it is a valuable life tool.

Podcasts are amazing and if you do a search on youtube you can find Alanon Recovery and just start picking .. my favorites are Father Tom and Mary Pearl. They put things into perspective for me. I don't think I realized how much my X's drinking had affected me and granted we did not have a fun relationship. We are not together however there are others who have stayed and are happy regardless of what the alcoholic has done in the past because the person they are today is not who they were .. that's not to say that they didn't make the amends needed that's to say they didn't hide from what happened.

You don't have to decide today to stay or go .. that will come when it comes. Only you can decide what your deal breakers are and today is not the day. I kind of wish the information in my case had come slower .. I wouldn't have stayed that wasn't the plan .. ever I don't think .. that's to say I would have been healthier in where I was coming from and handled my divorce very differently. I wasn't and it had it's own lessons. I had to decide what my deal breakers were and I could not move past the infidelity and the lies because I wanted something different .. I wanted a partner who was not an alcoholic. That's a true statement.

Just for today you do not have to decide .. just for today you can live in the present with a man who is no longer who he was. I am sorry that you have information that is very difficult to deal with and process. I have been watching a BBC show and one of the storylines was how long until a murder doesn't really count .. and I liked what the lead detective had to say about it. I don't know how to quantify a situation that no one seems to remember what happened really.

I hope you will be gentle with yourself and just kind of take it moment by moment .. they say one day at a time however sometimes it's literally min by min.

Big hugs, S :)

hotrod said
Nov 16, 2018

Welcome Gloves, You are not alone. Please do keep coming back and search out alanon face o face meetings and attend It is here that i discovered powerful principles that I could live by and tools that helped me face myself when i made a mistake,

When my hubby passed, I found his Inventory in a drawer but "knowing myself" I choose to discard the book and not read it as I felt it would cause me more harm than good I am glad i did.
Keep coming back,.

Bo said
Nov 16, 2018

Gloves, welcome. First, what someone else did or didn't do about reading something is now irrelevant. That's them, and you are you. You have integrity -- that I can tell. However, what's done is done. The best thing you can do for YOU right now is not beat yourself up. Second, stop trying to figure out what you read, the how and why, etc. The more you try and figure it out, the more stories you will tell yourself, the more scripts you will write, and the more you will drive yourself crazy. You won't come up with real answers, just possibilities, theories, etc.

You sound like you've already made the decision to not broach the subject now. I agree. I wouldn't. When I found out -- in a written document as well -- that my wife was cheating on me, I spoke to my sponsor first. And second. And third. LOL. The approach I took was...JUST FOR TODAY...I do not have to broach this subject. I agree with you for innumerable reasons. Start going to face to face alanon meetings. Find a sponsor and start working the alanon program FOR YOU, and YOUR recovery. You are not an addict or alcoholic. However, a loved one is...and thus...ALANON IS FOR YOU.

All the best.

a4l said
Nov 17, 2018

Welcome Gloves. For what its worth I've read similar posts on this exact same subject. So you're not alone. Certainly snooping has gotten me into world's of trouble mentally and emotionally but in all honesty I can't say I ever discovered anything that was a big dramatic instantaneous game changer. By that I mean, when relationships are rocky/addicted/abusive, I already knew something was off, so confirming it with spying just made me angry and upset but making the change to leave/end it was a decision that didn't need that external evidence either way. In your case it sounds like curiosity got the better of you and it burns. But he was in active addiction and sounds solid now. I guess now the choice is yours to forgive or resent. On the sleeping girlfriend, politically we are all a bit charged over the "metoo" type movement but as a female also, I think there is a real danger in dramatising things that in reality we do have the power to change. As a 36 year old woman I don't consider what you described as rape. What woman hasn't had a partner try to get things started while she's sleeping? Nothing a slap across the head and a no can't stop. Should that fail, then maybe it's a violation but I would not be crying rape over every single sex act that isn't explicitly requested and acquiesced to. I also have great difficulty believing that a woman wouldn't instantly or near instantly know when someone is trying it on when sleeping in order to administer that slap, and if intoxicated at the time, I am one who believes that the ultimate disempowerment is to avoid responsibility for putting oneself in that situation. At the end of the day though it isn't your concern, that's his inventory and his amends to make if to do so causes no harm to others. Keep coming back.

JerryF said
Nov 17, 2018

((((Gloves))))...All of that was ESH as was explained...our Experiences, Strengths and Hopes. We learn from those who come to and share this recovery program as it was shared with them creating a new sanity. Yes our program is a step and tradition program...twelve of each and others while the focus is different. For the alcoholic and addict the focus is sobriety and sanity and for us peace of mind and sanity...yes there is much more available to all of us and we work the program as directed by those who came before us. For me for a long while I was the only man in Al-Anon that I was aware of so I was re-raised by the women in the program which gave my mom the son she always wanted and didn't have the ESH to get. Love her. I got a life worth living from Al-Anon and my Alcoholic/Addict got a crazy person taken out of her way to sobriety.

We can and will take the program one day at a time so I am very happy to share this one day with you and the rest of this family. ((((hugs)))) wink

el-cee said
Nov 17, 2018

I see this disease as cunning and baffling as it tells us in our program. The disease is one where it's difficult to live with the racing thoughts the guilt pain misery so self medication or self soothing of Mr self forgetting is necessary. This relief comes from drink, affairs, gambling, food etc anything that gets a buzz long enough to remove the pain. I think alcoholism and infidelity can go hand in hand for some. For me my ex was commited to the drink. He didn't have time or energy for women. Does it mean I got it easier than You? Was the abandonment any different? I wonder how important is it in the grand scheme of things. Not to say your feelings are invalid and you deserve to honour them but he's sober now. He's done his inventory on this there's a really good chance he's a faithful sober man even though while he's active in his drinking he's not. Can be as simple as that and it's not personal it's pain and this disease in another human searching for peace if mind in the wrong places.

-- Edited by el-cee on Saturday 17th of November 2018 08:24:55 AM

gloves808 said
Nov 17, 2018

Hi everyone!

Wow thank you all so much for responding and providing input. It really is so very, very helpful for me. It assisted me getting back to the present even more. To remember what is important. To remind myself of his transformation which I saw with my own eyes! I'm feeling better about not giving my own fears power. It was really odd, when my bf did arrive (I think I'll call him Bob here), I found myself just watching him as a person. More clued into his mannerisms and personality. I felt like an observer. It was weird but I felt like I was waiting to fall in love again-- to see what drew me in the first place.

I did have a migraine yesterday, and felt like crud, but I used it to get me through spending the first few hours with him since I found the inventory. I just couldn't get myself to feel... much of anything. I felt in my own world. Detached. I'm really bad at hiding things when something bothers me, but I managed to make it work. Somehow. And Bob was being just as sweet as he could be. I think it was a challenge for him (let go and let god).

I think I'm taking my own slow road to forgiveness. I just feel the "pre-inventory me" coming through the clouds every once in a while. I know he must have carried that guilt for a long time, and I think there is probably more behind the story. He's just that kind of person. It wasn't meant for me to see. Some things I won't understand, and I will be okay with that. My emotions are going to probably ebb and flow with this, but I still want to start going to al-anon meetings. It'll have to wait until after Thanksgiving break so Bob won't have to know. I'd rather keep it private. Good for me, and good for him too.

When I could, I signed on my phone to read all your responses throughout last night, and it helped me get through last night so much. It made me feel warm. I'm so glad I came here.

Iamhere said
Nov 17, 2018

Hey Gloves - great on your for getting through yesterday! What I love about recovery is each day truly is a new start. It was such an interesting concept to me to live one day at a time and accept life as it happens on life's terms.

I (and others here) are double winners - AA members & Al-Anon members. There are burdens in my inventory from when I was active in the disease that were extremely shameful and painful. In both programs, rigorous honesty is suggested, as that's how we find freedom - dumping the old making room for new. Accepting that all of us are perfectly imperfect helped me too - I had very high expectations of myself and others and this really held me back.

When instead I can accept that we are going to make mistakes and that's part of being human, I was able to better accept that in others. I try to spend time each day writing gratitude lists and focusing on what is good in my life instead of what's not how I think it should be. Just keep doing you, one day at a time!

gloves808 said
Nov 18, 2018

Getting through the weekend is finally over. I felt myself feeling not attracted to him sexually/emotionally at all at this time. We watched the movie called "Blow" and it opened up a conversation about how being sober in with sex addiction is like with drinking/drugs. He said a couple of his friends from high school he thinks were sex addicts. You know, the crowd he hung around with. I was just listening to him and asked questions like I normally would. It's weird for me though now having read his inventory. At one point he brought up on his own that he is thinking about revisiting his fearless inventory and doing it over again. I asked how it changes, and he was thinking of doing it again with his sponsor. This made me feel relieved. I asked when was the last time he went to a meeting, and it's been since August.

At another point during the night yesterday, we talked about people who have been more-or-less blacklisted because of their sexual past. He said he believes everyone deserves redemption and a second chance. This all stems from watching that Blow movie! Bob is also a HS teacher, and he said he feels good reaching out to at-risk youths. He said he relates to them. He's saying all the right things to me. And I feel like, without him knowing it, he's providing input that I need to hear. But, it's really hard not to just come right out and ask specific things. To tell on myself. I still am not going to say anything until I go to an al-anon meeting, but each day I feel like I'm pretending, and I don't like that. So I'm glad at least until then, I can come here and write, and read responses.

Also, through my pretending, I feel disappointed because I am being more in the moment. By being more in the moment, I'm more observant. By being more observant, I remember how non-helpful he is about things in general. He isn't particularly helpful or thoughtful when it comes to me/our home. Though, he did do things to make me laugh, which was nice. On Thursday, I asked him what makes me happy (this obviously is out of context), and he didn't want to add anything. He said "what makes you happy is what makes you happy." I responded I hoped for a real answer, and he just said but I love you! Idk, sometimes I feel like he doesn't really know what I need. It has been communicated before. I've felt like this before (actual years), but learned to accepted it. After this weekend, I feel like I have that reminder again. My focus has shifted from him and what he is doing as an individual, to me focusing on what my needs are. Need to refocus...

Also, while we were watching Blow, I was looking up what falls under someone w/ a sex addiction and it said chronic masturbation. Bob went into how little he masturbates now while we are doing long-distance. He then wanted to know how often I do, and it's more than him for sure. Although we had just talked about this last week, he acted like he'd not heard it before. He just looked at me like he was hurt by that. He used to get weird about it even when we were together. Jealous acting. That insecurity that I'm so familiar with coming around again. Might be my contribution as to how I pulled back from him this weekend.

Anywho, I think that's all for now. I think he probably needs to get active in the AA community again, and I really am eager to go to an al-anon meeting. It'll have to wait until next Monday or Tuesday. I am meditating still every day. Thanks everyone for reading and providing feedback.

gloves808 said
Nov 19, 2018

Feeling a lot better today. Needed some space from it all I think so I could think and process. I know that there's some things I would not tell Bob because it would hurt him, even things that I consider small things, because I know him well enough that he wouldn't need to know. Sort of a protection. I don't have a substance abuse problem, so all my "dirty laundry" so to speak, isn't just all out on a piece of paper as part of inventory. He and I just are different people with different experiences. Fortunately, I had the right set of tools growing up. He didn't. I shouldn't fault him for that since this is where his disease begins. It was out of his control. He has that control now, and a great support system.

Feeling warmer all the time. Just letting these feelings come and go. Like clouds in the sky. Practicing mindfulness and doing my best. Thanks all.

Iamhere said
Nov 19, 2018

Hey gloves - good on you that you're living life on life's terms! I'm glad you're feeling better as well. What recovery taught me is that I overthink, over-analyze, over-process almost everything. When I try to just focus each day on the present, my brain slows a bit and I can see the beauty of most today. I had to work to accept others exactly as they are, define boundaries as I could and detach from what's not mine...easier said than done, but very possible with this program.

Make it a great day! Keep coming back!

JerryF said
Nov 19, 2018

Having a fellowship and sponsor you also trust to think it out and process is gold and was gold for me. I knew nothing about our disease when I first got to and stayed in program. I didn't know and didn't know that I didn't know and came to describe it as being "dumb as a stick". During the process of learning which took years of meetings and college support and continued participation I become able to know how this disease really works and affects all it touches.

I listen and learn here and often my family members use descriptions for the disease which I can now acknowledge as being accurate and from my very early attendance in and with Al-Anon when the definition (AMA) of alcoholism would say, "It can never be cured...only arrested by total abstinence" I am assured that I am in the right place within this program and with those who have come to understand and are willing and courageous for sharing it with others.

Alcoholism is older than 6000 years and even found in the bible. Who am I not to listen and learn today? Mahalo to all of my recovery family for keeping the wisdom before me. (((((hugs))))) smile

gloves808 said
Nov 22, 2018

Detaching from what's mine, you said Iamhere. That really helps me this morning. Yesterday, we kind of had an argument. I wanted to watch a movie we've always enjoyed watching together; we'd been talking about it for months. He said he's going to multi-task while it's on, and so I said well let's watch something else since I've been waiting to watch so maybe another time. Yes, I was disappointed, but I was moving on. He wanted to stop everything and discuss this. To be honest, I had to go through a reminder of expectations. Bob often does whatever he wants, and I can't change that. I don't have control over it. After everything that I read last Thursday, yeah, under the surface, I was really struggling of that reminder. I couldn't tell him that. So it came out with me being upset. He felt the need to, as he put it, challenge me while I was crying. I told him if you are wanting to contribute to any growth, usually you would want to do it when the person isn't crying. At least, that's what I always did with him. Pass the emotions, then have a real talk. Emotions cloud judgment. He was really wanting to explore emotions while I was upset. Why am I disappointed? And it was honestly such a juvenile thing. But he was the one telling me that it was all very stupid after his need to challenge something that I didn't think was worth all of it.

PS, having slept for only 12 hours over a 48 hr period isn't great especially when upset.

Anyway, I'm nearing 30, and we aren't married, and I want to have kids. I've been really feeling the need to have children stronger and stronger of these past few months. We talked about how his mom is supportive whether we are married or not (we are kind of traditional). He actually just talked to her a few days ago about it. It was the first time yesterday that he contributed the idea to having kids in a realistic way...

Going back to the argument (if that's what you want to call it), I tell him I need a break, because I'm upset and I know what I need to do for myself. He says, "Is this how you are going to behave with our own kids?" And honestly, that gutted me SO badly. I sobbed in the shower, I sobbed by myself in bed once I went to bed, and I cried upon waking. I never cry like this... I haven't cried this badly since he was drinking and he'd say the perfect thing that would send me into a whirlwind. Because he always knew what would hurt me the most at that moment.

I'm just having a hard time. This week is providing its difficulties, and I don't feel well. I accepted so much of who he is, and I'm taking a really strong effort to accept everything that I now know. In my own time, you know? I felt judged for being upset, I felt unaccepted. I'm doing the best that I can...

Iamhere said
Nov 22, 2018

gloves - there is so, so many ways this program can help you! You truly are not alone and I feel for you with the hard time. I really encourage you to visit the top left, check out the online meeting schedule and see if you can start there. Right now, for the holiday, I believe there are folks present at all times - great group and great way to connect with others who understand how this disease affects us.

I can only speak for me, but when I am not rested and lacking in self-care, I am more emotional almost towards all things. Al-Anon really encourages self-care and being present and much more that helps us settle our brains/thoughts/minds when we are projecting or obsessing. Not saying you are - just saying that when I can stay centered, using this program and any other tools I might find, I am so better at responding vs. reacting. When I react around my home, things tend to escalate in unhealthy ways. When I can respond instead, things tend to go smoother!

Know that I'm sending you positive vibes, thoughts and prayers. This disease is progressive and rarely are we (loved ones, family, friends) unaffected. Take good care of you as best you can!

J42day said
Nov 23, 2018

havent read this whole thread. I may come back to it tonight. I just wanted to share a thought. We learn in alanon we make an amends Unless when to do so would harm someone deeper. what comes to me is this .. Everything you read in this inventory is part of an Honest admission and miracle in progress .. Motive ? to change and grow for the better and come Clean thru the Care of hp. Some will Never do an inventory .. will Never become willing. I think it's a blessing when others are willing so just sayin .. what might be viewed as a negative might ironically be a positive .. turning to hp is always the next right action. no judge in my reply. hugs for u thru the discomfort. I love betties short and simple wise replies.

Jayla said
Nov 27, 2018

Hugs to you Gloves. I am a member who experienced infidelity committed by my husband who is an alcoholic. I am just going to give you my thoughts on my situation which while not the same as yours, had some similarities. The similarities being that he lied, hid things from me, claimed former sex partners were just friends. I considered anything he did before being with me not my business. His past is his and mine is mine. However, what he did while we were together is TOTALLY MY BUSINESS because we were in a monogamous marriage and HELLO STDs are a thing!!! I caught him cheating quite by accident (although I had much time snooping before that). I dont feel bad about my snooping at all. He WAS LYING, CHEATING and putting my heath (and my nursing infants at risk). He was not giving me the information I should have had to decide whether or not to stay in the relationship. Im not sorry I snooped, not sorry I caught him and not sorry I kicked him out. I deserve better. * Now in your situation, it seems to me an important question isdid any of this sexual stuff in the inventory happen DURING your relationship with him?? If not, I would work on moving past it because his past is his and hes trying to move forward and heal. However if it did happen while he was with you (if he cheated on you with these women), it would be your decision whether or not to let bygones be bygones or declare the cheating a deal-breaker. And that would be worth putting thought into and making a choice youre comfortable with. Those are my 2 cents anyway. You can take what you like and leave the rest of course.

gloves808 said
Nov 28, 2018

Hi everyone! I was honestly scared of coming back here because I have this guilt for saying anything. I'm afraid of criticism about this :(

I realized that the past several weeks that he had pulled back emotionally (like I said earlier, we are doing long-distance right now). He isn't telling me things anymore. This just lent itself into his inventory that I found and I began to worry. I know how he was when he began to invest in other women before (as for physically cheating, I don't really know. Emotionally, yes, he did. And he had slept with them before). It made me scared!

Another thing happened earlier last week. I had planned on seeing him before I went on a campus tour to think about graduate school. He tried to get me to not go, and wanted to discuss all these reasons why it might not be a good idea. It really upset me; I've been talking about grad school for several years now. Like I mentioned before, I have some medical issues, so the mental/emotional abrupt changes really has a negative effect on my body. Also, it really took the wind out of my sails. Through Bob and I talking, I realized that he sabotaged me looking at grad school again, and he wasn't exactly aware he was doing it. He felt really, really bad, and he apologized. I felt helpless. In retrospect, it just made me wonder if I just became complacent with our relationship, and maybe I do need to care more about some things.

During this conversation, I decided to talk to him about him going to AA and me going to al-anon. He was all on board with me going to al-anon. But with him, honestly, the more we talked, the more I realized he really needs to have a sponsor near him. So I encouraged him, and he said he will take care of it. Whatever that means. I guess that is where trust is supposed to come in to play.

Just to wrap up the argument I wrote about last week, we ended up talking for a few hours that morning. I still haven't brought up the inventory. It's STILL in the same place I found it. At some point, I need to be ready to ask him to take it out of the house. I really don't want it here, and I don't want to know where it is. I did tell Bob that I hadn't been that upset since he was drinking to his face. He said he wanted to understand better. It just came back to something I noticed years ago... does he really know what makes me happy? What makes me joyful? He told me that he doesn't know how I handle disappointment, and wanted to know how I was thinking and to help "fix" me. This made me feel condescended to for a multitude of reasons. 1. I used to talk to him like that, and I stop once I realized how I came across, and came to love him as he was. I stopped doing this once I understood he was an alcoholic. 2. I feel like I don't need to share every single time I teach myself something, so that he knows that I'm still "growing as a person." To me, that is really annoying, and not giving me any credit to living with a recovering alcoholic.

I would have wanted to go to an al-anon meeting this week, but the roads are still so bad from a blizzard we got a few days ago, and I don't feel safe to drive yet. I know there are chat meetings, I'll try to look into them in the meantime. Some days I feel better than others. Some days I forget I read it at all, and that feels really good. All that tells me is that I'm healing and coming along, but there are other things to work on.

Bo said
Nov 28, 2018

Focus on YOU...your program, your recovery, you getting better, you getting healthy.

Stay on and keep your side of the street clean...not his...and keep coming back.

Iamhere said
Nov 28, 2018

gloves - we too had a blizzard on Sunday! I finally ventured out last night - had to get milk. Otherwise, I would not have bothered yet. I had 3 gallons on Saturday - milk monsters live here and it's not me!

The meetings and chat here are a great way to just get acclimated to how Al-Anon works. I hope you find your courage and attend here or locally - it has been a game changer for me! Keep coming back - you are worth it!

gloves808 said
Nov 30, 2018

You must be in the Midwest Iamhere!! It's all finally starting to melt away, but we had ice last night again.

I tried to sign on to the chat, but it said I couldn't join on, and suggested I go to some DroneBL website which looked kind of suspicious, so I will need to wait til a face-to-face meeting next week.

Thank you Bo and Iamhere. Focusing on myself definitely is helping. Keep my street clean; do what I need to do! I am going to do my best!!!

Iamhere said
Nov 30, 2018

I am gloves and yes - we've had some melting during the day and refreezing over night. Yesterday presented tons of melting - yay!!!

I just now went to the top left, and clicked on the 2nd link. I scrolled down a little bit and found a field with mib_xxxxxxx. I believe it asks you to select a nickname to sign in or join. I put in Test123, and hit enter, and it took me right to the chat room. I am on a laptop vs. a mobile, just FYI...

Please try again and shout back - if there are issues, we can share accordingly and get some trouble-shooting for you (and others if needed).

I too would have stopped my efforts if there was a redirect to a strange site - I am very careful about what I do and where I go online...Make it a great day!

gloves808 said
Dec 6, 2018

Good morning everyone!

Been a week since I wrote! Doing good. While I was at a health services clinic, I saw the behavior services was right upstairs, so I decided to go up and see when I could get an appointment. They deal a lot with substance abuse issues, so I hope that they can help.

I decided to go because I've thought about it ever since I went to Mayo last March. And now it feels like the right time to just go talk to a counselor. Pain management skills, coping skills.... all that. I finally felt like just going and doing it, so I'm really happy about it.

I felt bad w/ Bob, because when he came to visit at the end of the week again, there were some things he didn't understand why I was doing all of a sudden. Such as, "Why are you talking about what I did before when we were doing long distance? I was drinking!! Don't compare then and now cus it's totally different!" He said, "you keep bringing up before and is something wrong?" And it felt like so awkward because of course it feels like out of nowhere with him. So I apologized for it, and reminded myself of a few things. In a way, I feel like I'm ignoring what I know... or possibly I'm accepting it (which is probably more like it). Idk. I think I'm making progress though. I think I kind of veer towards thinking about it once a day now, but then I willingly veer away because I'm causing my own pain and it's over.

So, the progress is underway. Another month til I get in to see therapist, and I am looking forward to unburdening myself!

Thank you everyone.

Freetime said
Dec 6, 2018

Gloves, glad you are feeling that progress is under way. I think it is a great decision to see a therapist. In my experience, individual therapy and diving into the Al-Anon program (meetings, sponsor, steps) were tools that worked together for my recovery.

SerenityRUS said
Dec 6, 2018

I agree with Freetime .. individual therapy as well as alanon helped me progress faster through things. I needed to hear from others who had been where I was at even after my X and I split .. it put things in perspective. I am still healing and so it's been a very positive experience overall.

Big hugs and glad you found something that will help you move forward .. that's so important.

s :)

gloves808 said
Dec 7, 2018

Thank you :) I really appreciate it. I'm looking forward to it! I went to counseling when Bob first got sober. It was also when the stress of our relationship was first beginning to cause me some health problems. I was seeing a cardiologist at the time and was experiencing chest pains! This was the beginning of the end of the body I used to have, really. In counseling then, we didn't end up talking about Bob at all, but about my family instead.... and it was liberating. Very painful though. I feel like it's time again! I feel very confident. I'm going to see a woman this time. One thing that my counselor years ago pointed out is that I have a problem opening up to fellow women. So I decided to see a female therapist. Think it ties back to growing up with brothers, and just about every female relationship I've ever had is unhealthy (probably links to my mother), so it'll be a good challenge in so many ways.

So back with my problem regarding the chatrooms....I tried to join the chat room again, through a different browser, and it said "Your IP address is listed in a blacklist. You may have a virus, trojan or be running an open proxy. Please check dronebl.org for details." I use a MacBook, so I should not have any virus at all. Not sure what to do about it... thanks in advance :)

Freetime said
Dec 7, 2018

Hi Gloves, for your technical problem with the chatroom, try sending a private message to WebHelper. The team might have some insight on this.

Iamhere said
Dec 7, 2018

Hey Gloves - I too love to see you seeing/feeling progress. That's all we strive for one day at a time! There is never any shame in using any/all resources available to help us heal/deal from this disease and all it brings. We talk always about being willing to go to any lengths and that's such a personal part of the journey. Just keep doing you and what helps you deal/heal - you've got great awareness and a great start going! Keep coming back - you are not alone!

Maresie said
Dec 13, 2018

For me being in a relationship.was pretty raw. It brought up all kinds of issues about abandonment and of course boundaries. Alcoholics were a good fit for me for a long time because they appeared accepting. In fact they weren't they wanted someone who.would support wherever they were. This was a mutually very dependent relationship. The alcoholic only looked like they were more independent. I was always in conflict and often in crisis over certain situations. Given life with an alcoholic generally 8nvolves some crises this was hard going My needs were pretty much subjugated 99% of the time so I would get angry and resentful but still not do anything about it. The good news is that I got to work through a lot of those triggers and became much more mindful of. Boundaries. It has been hard going but al.anon has been very effective for me. My gauge of success in the past.was whether I could somehow hold onto.a relationship. Now it is about doing better for me. I am very very careful about not taking in other people's issues. I work daily on knowing what my limits are. Self care is a huge hurdle for me. You are in the right place to deal with all the issues you describe. Al anon is very effective but it takes work.and willingness. Maresie .

gloves808 said
Dec 15, 2018

Hi everyone!

So I met up with my oldest and best friend this weekend. It's actually been 5 years since we've seen each other, the entire length of time that Bob has almost been sober too! I told her everything, and she felt so strongly about the fact that I need to sometime bring it up with him. She also thinks that he should have burned his inventory and not left in the house I own. He had said "don't look in here," and that it was unfair of him to do that. Once I started to talk, she said it was obvious I was carrying a burden. When I talked about it with her, I started to shake and feel cold, and have a stomach ache... a really bad one. My friend is a nurse, and she said I was having a little bit of a panic attack from it. Thank god for her, since it made me feel like I had more control understanding what it was that was happening. It was really such a strange thing to realize how much I am still hurting from it. I really want to already be talking to a therapist about it... but I have to wait until the beginning of January. She said as long as he hasn't cheated on me, that's what is important. I honestly feel like I really do think I need to talk to him about it at some point because it's still causing me pain.

Makes me sad. I feel sad today. :(

-- Edited by gloves808 on Saturday 15th of December 2018 08:32:55 AM

-- Edited by gloves808 on Saturday 15th of December 2018 08:34:08 AM

SerenityRUS said
Dec 15, 2018

While I agree with your friend it needs to be addressed at some point, sometimes I have to look at my part in my own pain.

Something that happened this week was I had a bit of a fit because my BF was saying something that he felt was a joke and because I never spoke up that it was upsetting me .. I blew up .. probably NOT the right time to address the issue. I hurt his feelings because I said something I did not need to say out loud .. so look at me getting to make amends and that's not where it started. I should have said something earlier to him about the phrase he was using was triggering me. I assumed (you know what they say about that) he would get the verbal cues I was giving him .. guess what .. he doesn't get verbal cues .. I think that's a him thing because he's not been in a relationship where people speak kindly or rationally to each other. So listening isn't one of his strong points during a high tension moment.

Basically I can keep doing what I'm doing and expecting different results or out of the gate .. .I should have said honey .. this is really hard for me to hear because it triggers ALL the way back to childhood for me and to say I was triggered is minor. He would have heard that because it was direct and I didn't expect him to guess and when it originally happened I should have said something.

My part .. learning to be more direct about my wants and needs, accepting what he can't give at this point .. someday he may understand verbal cues .. today .. he doesn't so that falls on me to be a better communicator. I should have said something and been direct about it and not expected him to guess.

Should he choose to continue to the behavior .. that's a totally separate conversation because I have been extremely clear about how I feel. His part is his part and I don't need to take inventory about what he should or shouldn't be doing .. I am responsible for ME.

This is a conversation that was super difficult for me to have especially leading from an I had to make an amends even though I was triggering. I had a difficult time with the conversation as it is and this is a conversation I couldn't have begun to have with anyone 3 years ago.

If you need to have the conversation have the conversation .. I caution you greatly to have the conversation because you believe you are going to be "in charge of it and steer it" the way YOU think it should go. He has a right to his feelings and responses to the conversation. This is why I need to have the conversation with someone I trust first and then pause, pray and proceed or I wind up saying something not nicely which I am prone to do out of defense or not ever getting around to saying what I actually meant.

Maybe it will be a great conversation and maybe it won't .. this isn't a conversation I would choose to have during the holidays because then I gotta wonder what my motive is for bringing a whole lot of drama during a season that I am personally trying to find the good in others.

I would be talking to someone who specializes in therapy and has been down the road I'm going so I could weigh my options .. that's what has worked best for me. One thing I can absolutely promise you is the conversation you have in your head is not usually the conversation that happens .. at least for me that's a true statement.

Big hugs and best of luck to you.

S :)

2HP said
Dec 15, 2018

Dear friend, I don't believe you can simply tell your heart to be quiet now, regardless of how you found this information, it's irrelevant. And I believe your meditation practice is arousing this deep concern for our fellow sister, who may have been violated. so I understand your longing to discuss it with him ((big hugs))

My former AH apologized for all of his secrets and harm to our relationship. However, the extreme selfish, self-seeking, and dishonesty actually never stopped. Al-anon helped me to notice that whenever words and actions don't match up....... it kills the trust, regardless of the relationship.

Apologies are not amends, they're just words. A change in character is a true amends. I can trust with my own eyes. The kind of character I trust today is one that desires everyone's well-being and happiness...

which I am grateful to add, describes my significant other. I am in a wonderful relationship today. One that is mutually respectful, reliable, loyal, understanding, quiet and peaceful. His character so inspires me, and resonates with my own values and spiritual goals. So my ESH is

Expect the highest and best for yourself, because NOTHING is too good for you. Hold that in your heart ((my friend))

-- Edited by 2HP on Saturday 15th of December 2018 08:02:55 PM

gloves808 said
Dec 16, 2018

Thanks for the responses. Honestly, it is helping me so, so much. I'm so glad that I decided to join this group. It helps me get through these uncertain times.

My friend is concerned about me. She's said it so many times since I've been here. She says I'm a little different, not as confident as I used to, and she notices I feel guilty for things that I really don't need to feel guilty about. I've gotten to a place where I feel really dependent on my boyfriend. And it just gradually started to get that way.

2HP you really hit the nail on the head. Regardless of everything, I still feel deeply unsettled. Since I've been here visiting my friend, my boyfriend is like really showing his insecurities. He wants to know all my movements, and he's doing some passive aggressive things. Just not being like himself when I'm at home. And it's really annoying and aggravating. I've never cheated, never done anything at all. He's having a real problem of "let go, let God," and relinquishing control because he does not have control over what I do!! It makes me mad! Like as if he's trying to sabotage my time here. And I think whether he's aware of it or not, I think that is exactly what he's doing. And it's working unfortunately!! I need to get back to me. I keep reminding myself "focus on me," and that there is nothing wrong with that!! He's showing insecurity so profoundly, and it's such a turn off.

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