I was angry, hungry, and tired when I said some things to my engaged daughter.
For the past 11 months she told me that I could not invite even a single guest to her wedding, as she wanted a small wedding and her fiancé has a large family. Initially, I tried to talk to her about this twice, and she bullied me into silence.
I tried to stuff my feelings, which has never ended well, but I felt like I didn't have another choice.
At her engagement party, I mingled a little with her friends and his family, but essentially observed everyone sharing the celebration with their friends and family. I felt alone.
Last week, I started to spill over and told her how alone I felt at her engagement party and said that I'm glad she's so happy but this dynamic has continued to seep between every aspect of our relationship.
To her credit, she asked her fiancé , "wouldn't my Mom have plenty of people to spend time with at the wedding!?" He told her that I would not... that his family would be busy with his family and her friends will be engaging mostly with each other. She called me yesterday to apologize. She said i could invite a few people and then dictated whom I may and may not invite. I wouldn't have invited anyone that was on her "no" list, but she didn't give me the option to tell her that.
She wanted to have dinner with me tonight and called this morning saying she was brining me a cookie. She wanted me to choose the dinner venue and said it was about me. Only... this was not the reality that I lived for the past 11 months and this did not feel like resolution or enough.
My side of the street started blustering a storm, as I've spent 11 months suffering from this and wasn't able to navigate the 180 degree turnaround as readily as her offer. And I did not want a consolation cookie! I wanted to have had this settled 11 months ago and resent that this happened and also took so long. Even the cookie triggered me as my exAH used to buy me gifts after he abused me.
Now my side of the street grew dark, as I was hungry, tired, and angry. I called to tell her I wasn't feeling good about our relationship, the wedding, or the upcoming "family" vacation with his family. I felt like a wallet that was a wedding guest.
She had some choice nonPG words and how I always think people are out to get me and hung up, followed by a nasty text message but the gist is that she doesn't want my money - that it's not about money.
Well, if it is not about money, then it actually feels worse.
I went down the phone list and looked at my side of the street.
I called her to let her know that I have some things to apologize for - to call back when she's able.
Any additional support / slogans while I wait would be greatly appreciated. I don't know what she could do to undo my hurt and that's something difficult to give to my HP. I feel like the underlying issues that caused this aren't resolved and I think this is why it's so hard for me to let go.
Thanks for listening!
bud said
Nov 5, 2018
After I sent left the message, she sent a text stating she was on a subway. Then she left another text stating she would eat something and then call me "if I was still around."
I didn't want to respond because I didn't like the"if I was around part." I had already asked her to call and have nothing further to say until she does. I don't want to get into a negative / manipulative battle with her.
She did not call.
I'm tempted to text her the message that I left for her last night to be sure she got it, even though it seems that she did receive it and has elected to not return my call.
This whole thing has been painful and this is too.
hotrod said
Nov 5, 2018
((Bud)) sending positive thoughts and prayers your way
bud said
Nov 5, 2018
Many thanks Betty!
SerenityRUS said
Nov 5, 2018
Bud,
I empathize on so many levels regarding adult children or children navigating the adult field.
Big hugs, the best thing I have done is keep the door open and not allow my ego to dictate the who called who, even if it means I have to eat a little crow and make that initial phone call. Do I want to be right or do I want to be happy? This is where I have leaned on other alanon friends to help me work through my disappointments and my issues. Especially the issue that how dare my kids not behave the way "I" think they should behave.
I think one of my biggest things that really hits the trigger for me is not being heard by the other party. Or better yet my perception of not being heard because it becomes about me even when it's not.
Pause, pray and proceed with what's best for you however I encourage you to let go of who's right and who's wrong .. at least for me that leaves me stuck in pity and martyrdom .. after all you have stated your feelings regarding the issue of the wedding guests your daughter has heard you and she's wrapped up in all about her.
I just had a discussion this weekend with my BF about children and selfishness. I think because I am a late bloomer in terms of understanding some of the challenges my mom went through as a single parent, it wasn't until I had to walk the path (although she's going to say she had it harder with me just me .. lol) .. that I have a greater understanding as well as appreciation for some of the difficulties she faced .. I still don't agree with some of her decisions .. you know it's in the past and I can't change that. My kids have both made choices I don't agree with and when necessary I have let them know that's the line I am not going past.
As a parent .. I forget that not only do I have different perceptions of my own childhood my children are entitled to theirs as well. Some of them make me uncomfortable because at the time I wasn't ok. I find I do take things I shouldn't personally and it's really not my lesson to haggle with. I am certainly not an advocate of condoning unacceptable behavior .. I think for me it's about not taking things personally, creating my boundaries and knowing even if we have a disagreement .. the bottom line is I know I love my kids and they love me .. regardless of the "fun" we throw into dysfunction.
Anyway, big hugs .. I hope you will practice some self care that you need and deserve and are able to make this a happy occasion regardless of who is or isn't there at the wedding.
S :)
canadianguy said
Nov 5, 2018
Bud..... sorry you are hurting, as it's always difficult to see the big picture when our emotions are so damaged from past experiences....
As I read your post (and certainly not taking sides - there is no value in that at all) - it does seem that your daughter was offering you an olive branch, and made a kind and genuine movement from her earlier position - and unfortunately your past hurts from the relationship may have gotten in the way of you being able to sincerely accept her gesture?? IF this is the case, it takes a big person to do it, but perhaps an olive branch back from mom to daughter - to give her thanks for the movement she has granted you for (her) wedding, and hopefully you can be at peace with it all. From my perspective, she tried to do the right thing for you - offered you a few friends (even if they were specified, lol). Far from perfect, but a decent gesture all the same??
We get so much mud on us with all our relationships, that even when we get some legitimate "success" thrown our way, we aren't healthy enough ourselves to readily and humbly accept it.
Food for thought,
Hugs,
Tom
Iamhere said
Nov 5, 2018
(((Bud))) - great topic and great shares above me. I too am sorry you are hurting. With two children, both males and affected directly by this disease, I have really, really had to let go of all my expectations, wants, etc. and let God lead them. It took a ton of practice but I pray every day for them to have a happy, joyous, free journey no matter if I am a part or not.
My oldest and his baby momma are very close to her momma and new husband. They don't have the baggage with my son that I do so I get it. He is a lovely person when he wants to be and he's funny, intelligent, witty, etc. I kept asking just for equal time/treatment and he couldn't see what I felt nor could he change/fix it. My sponsor suggested ongoing gratitude lists for what I do get from them, and to focus on quality time and not quantity time. It hurts deeply to watch them all gather and have inside stories that I don't understand as I'm removed. Also, for the grandkids events, her whole family is present and their friends, etc. and it's usually just me and my AH (when he goes). I am not a part of, I am a part from yet I show up, support the babies, treat everyone with courtesy and respect and trust the process. I may/may not ever be part of he 'in group' and I can accept that today - not even remotely what I thought life would be like with adult children but I do believe God has a plan that's so outstanding, it will be better than what I ever hoped for.
I learned early on to say Thank you often. This next generation needs recognition and rewards. I don't believe deeply in celebrating 'doing the next right thing' but I've gotten better about that simply because I was very quick to point out when I felt they were wrong or wronging me. So - I let go of my perceived hurts and focus on what's good and it is slowly helping the relationship/both of us heal.
If I had my choice, we'd sit down, hash out the past, make our amends, hug and just move forward. Yet, it is in recovery that I've learned I rarely get 'my way' and I can choose to accept that or I can keep fighting for my will/way. It's much more serene for me to go with the former...
So - chin up girl - you've got a program and you've got some tools to pick from. Consider what you 'need' vs. what you 'want' and consider what is really important, just for today, for you and this relationship. I have faith in you - you got this!! I'm sending you positive thoughts and prayers!
JerryF said
Nov 5, 2018
WOW!! So grateful you brought this here Bud. It caused me to review many of the powerful lessons I got and get in program some soft and fluffy and still very important and others more direct and of a point and then the slogans that came with the lessons like "Let go and let GOD" with "IT AINT ALL ABOUT ME".I use to go to war about and for my EGO (MY EASING GOD OUT). It was an amazing lesson for me when I learned how demanding I was and often still am and while "no" is a complete sentence and I love to recall it hearing someone tell me no can still kill my spirit.
I hope it works out for you and that you and she find common ground to stand on in a hug.
BUD and IAH make my spirit woozy...lol
bud said
Nov 5, 2018
A HUGE thanks to everyone!
SerenityRUS - "I think one of my biggest things that really hits the trigger for me is not being heard by the other party. Or better yet my perception of not being heard because it becomes about me even when it's not. " Oh boy, does this describe my trigger too!
Tom- Thank you for this level of clarity she absolutely gave an olive branch and I believe it was I who threw mud on myself and my daughter.
IamHere - yes and the cookie felt like a participation trophy lol. I like the idea of saying thank you more often. I am also of the mindset of hashing things out and moving forward and I know that is not always an option. I was struggling.
Jerry - I'm so grateful for your share too. I was having a hard time letting go and letting God. Read on for the common ground and the hug....
She called this morning and we had a long talk that started with me making amends and offering sincere apologies for not responding better when she tried to correct things. She has had a lot of anxiety surrounding the wedding and family to be. She remembered my approaching her but made an assumption it was regarding something else.
She was in tears how hard she was trying. I felt so humbled and told her how much I love her and would wish for her to stop trying so hard and to just be.
We both identified it was the same unhealthy pattern in both of us that perpetuated this. ... likely a horrible sad "gift" that I inadvertently passed to her from pre-Alanon days.
We're in uncharted territory, but working through this together in the best way we know how. Thanks so much for helping me have a better understanding, which then opened possibilities for a better outcome.
(((MIP Familiy))) I am blessed!
mamalioness said
Nov 5, 2018
hey (((Bud))) Serenity said pretty much what I was thinking..So I'll just send you suport hugs and tell you that sometimes I have to choose....is being in the right more important or being at peace and having my serenity?? My dead sister's children dont' want anything to do with me or my brothers...They are "princesses" who don't need us "po folks" anymore....So I , instead of banging my head against the wall, trying to "fit in" with them, I just let them know that I love them and will pray for them, but I accept their not wanting to place me in their lives and its "OK" because I don't want to be where I am not wanted....I used to fight to be in a person's life...but if it is true love, I don't have to bang on the door, they will put me in their lives...It will be smooth and w/out my having to force anything....so be it....My A brother who has a heart of gold has let them go as well.....let go with peace and love
my older daughter is still MIA from my life...drugs changed her and i have to accept her AS IS, it is what it is, not what I had hoped for when she was my "little blondie" and clean and full of love and hugs for me....that girl is gone...In her place is this cynical, "i love you if you can give to me/do for me" girl whose love has so many conditions, I had to let HER go as well....As I grow, I realize that DNA is not a carte blanche on my heart nor does it guarantee that the relationship(s) will be happy and healthy.....
I've had to let a lot of loved ones go because lessons on my part were learned and I no longer bring that kind of pain to me...Its hard when its a child or a niece..it real hard, but I'm taking care of me now and focusing on the good, loving, healthy relationships that I DO have
I see you have accepted that you may have been HALT and you accept that...and I see that you really want to make amends and have a relationship with her....If this were me, I would just take responsibility for my part in the issue here...express my sorrow that I reacted rather then responded, and tell her you love her and your amend is to continue to work on yourself so as to not repeat....and let it go at that!!! the other either accepts our amends or they don't...OR they may need a cooling period first...whatever the case, she and her response is out of your hands....I hope you don't beat yourself up over this...its OK to be human as long as we are aware...being aware, brings on acceptance, which brings on good action....
I think when she cools down, things will work out OK.......IN SUPPORT
bud said
Nov 5, 2018
((Rose)) I'm grateful for your share. This was a growing pain for sure.
I appreciate the validation and I did hard-line keeping to my amends and responsibility for my part. She tried to further engage me, dump other stuff, finger-point, etc and told me that was my responsibility too. I let her know how much I love her but had already took responsibility and apologized for what was mine.
After expressing anger/frustration, she remained on the phone to have a more productive outcome.
She was worried that this would happen again under the circumstances, so together we revisited how this may roll out... I told her that if I had something that bothered me and approach her with it, that I will say what I need to say nicely, briefly, and only once. She has a problem with this because she thought she may not be fully listening, so she may revert again to shutting me down. She asked if this happens that I state something like, "I'm sure you don't want me to be hurt by ___."
I don't like repeating myself. I spent a lifetime trying to over-explain myself and have practiced hard to not do that. I can try what she wants and see if it makes a difference. (why does this feel like a lot of work?!
Bo said
Nov 5, 2018
bud, I am so sorry you are going through this. I can so empathize, not due to the wedding aspect, but more the dynamic involved with the inter-family relationship. I can't speak to you and your feelings, however, for me, when I was going through this -- there were no slogans that would make me feel better. There were no slogans that would "snap me" back into place, or onto the right track, a better track of thinking. For me, it was about getting together with my sponsor and talking and working through all of these issues. Why? Because it wasn't about "the wedding" or a "phone call" that didn't come. It was about everything that lead up to that. Where I was at, was a culmination, from an accumulation of events, from the dynamic of how the relationship developed over the course of time.
I didn't wake up one day and find myself 30 lbs. overweight! It happened -- from unhealthy eating, unhealthy habits, etc. -- over the course of time! And, I had to lose the weight, over the course of time. I didn't go on a diet on Monday and wake up on Tuesday and I lose 30 lbs.! That was the analogy that I had to learn and get ACCEPTANCE around. What got broke over the course of time needed to be fixed -- in me, about me, and by me -- over the course of time. That, my friend, is the support I can give you from my experience.
You had AWARENESS around HALT (hungry, angry, lonely, tired), and that's a very good thing! Now you have to put forth SELF-CARE, and do the work for you, around you, and it's done by you.
You are right -- the UNDERLYING ISSUES that brought you to this point, have not been resolved. That's where you have to start -- YOU! Not her, not about her! YOU! Talk to your sponsor, work on this. Your daughter may not be "emotionally available" right now for this. I wouldn't expect her to be. So, what does that mean to you? ACCEPTANCE. You have to be patient and wait.
All the best.
Bo said
Nov 5, 2018
bud, I didn't see your post about having spoken with her...great job! All the best.
Iamhere said
Nov 5, 2018
(((bud))) - awesome share and follow up! It reminded me that I pick a them each year to focus on. This year has been 'Seek to Understand'. I have made a conscious effort to use this and it's been a game changer. Sounds like as she shared where she is and what's up, you too were 'seeking to understand'.
I also get frustrated with not being heard. Many moons ago, we were forced into a variety of 'soft sills' training at my place of employment. Things such as Listening, Communications, Working with Difficult People, etc. Each of these soft skills repeated one item across the board - it takes on average repeating something 7 times for it to be fully heard. Apparently, I filed that away and kind of forgot about it.
Flash forward to living with this disease, and my sponsor who is also a retired therapist said the same line to me! Amazing how it came together in my brain - not being heard isn't about me being ignored or dismissed (as I thought) - it's about how communication does/does not work well, and the other person's ability to actually hear what's being said! I am not a fan of repeating my needs either but am more willing now since I do want peace and I and others are imperfect. I've decided it's better to repeat myself than not and being of a certain age, I'll even start by saying, "This might be repeat information, but ................................"
You got this - way to stay on your side of the street and take care of you! Best to you both - wedding are stressful as are most family events! (((Hugs)))
bud said
Nov 6, 2018
(((IamHere))) I love an annual theme and the seek to understand sounds like a daily keeper. I appreciate the leeway to repeat and am grateful this removed my angst.
So many of the wedding things weren't sitting right with me and I worried about her motives as I watched her anxiety climb to an all time high this past year. Underneath, was a false belief and a major expectation attached to it; a great recipe for disaster.
In addition, her friends and his family took it upon themselves to "intervene" with prodding questions and impose their opinion about how she "should" seek and beg her dad to come to the wedding.
Her decision is no one's business and she owes no explanation. My exAH continued to steep in his disease and was horribly abusive physically and emotionally. He has not been in touch with her other than to blame her for all the things wrong in his world. She practices safety and self care by not having contact.
I suggested she dial up her self care when people continue to be so horribly insensitive. I visualize them doing this at her wedding too. 90% of the wedding is her fiancees family, but that's another story. I made some suggestions so she could respond from a position of strength and it's ok to have a strong response to close the topic. If anyone has further ideas on this... I'm listening!
SerenityRUS said
Nov 6, 2018
Big hugs .. ...i'm so glad you found resolve with this between your kiddo and you. Based upon my experience and what you are sharing .i'm hearing a lot of fear for your kid. I just mean in terms of repeating the cycle .. and just projecting fears and concerns of your life lessons. I find that to be part of parenting and living a life that happened to have some painful experiences. I had a girlfriend of mine when my dad reached out trying to tell me I needed to leave myself open to the relationship while she was battling with her dad and his seriously crazy making ways. What I took away from that is .. I made the decision to be courteous with my dad however I left the relationship up to him lol. Guess what . I haven't heard from him since and in terms of her projections of her wanting me to have what she was never going to get from her dad.. as odd as the relationship I have with my dad .. her dad is a real life psychopath. He's incredibly cruel. This was a conversation we had about the situation. The path to hell is filled with good intentions. Letting go and allowing other people their lessons even if painful is the best way to go. I didn't find recovery late I got there on time. It was my higher powers time though not mine or anyone else's. It's not your wedding or your marriage .. this is about her and her choices. I am learning to just encourage what makes my kids happy and healthy. While being supportive to the best of my ability. I need to add I can't stand my oldest kids sig other he's a little creatin .. soo lol .. I have some work to do. Hugs keep doing you. S :)
Iamhere said
Nov 6, 2018
Oh Bud - all I really know is that as I age, it becomes more clear to me that life experiences are truly my best instruction. Often, I don't know exactly what's next but by the process of elimination, I do know what I don't want - how I used to be. Many slogans help me when I feel restless, irritable or discontent to include: It's not about me, Let Go and Let God, Just for Today, Seek to Understand, Keep it Simple, etc.
I also know I always, always leave meetings feeling better than when I arrived no matter how I am feeling so am one that ups my meetings when I am exposed to family for long periods of time. It just centers me, reminds me where I was and where I am today instead.
Lastly, I love gratitude lists, and when there is 'life' happening around me, it always helps me to find gratitude in having a recovery program, and remembering that others may not. This opens my heart to mean 'Bless Them, Change Me' when I state this mantra over and over in my head! You got this!!!
Jozie said
Nov 6, 2018
(((Bud)))
WOW... What a Thread :0) So Glad that you and your Daughter had a Chance to "Talk it Out"... Sometimes for Me, Just Voting with my Feet, Sharing Here... and Taking Time to Breathe thru it, I Find I Can Better Remove My Ego and Self-righteousness from things I have Shifted the Focus too...
You took me back over 18yrs ago when I got Married... My Mom Told me in her "Mom Voice" that I wasn't allowed to have my Best friend as My Maid of Honor, It had to be My Sister, "Too whom I Never Had a Close Relationship with!" (Because its Just the RIGHT Thing to DO!) The Rest of MY Wedding party was Over Taken by her Line Up, and the ONE Gal that I Wanted to Stand Next to Me was at the End of the Row.. Even tho she was the Only Person that Helped Me Prepare, Find a Dress, Make Decoration, Set Up & She & Her Son Sung at My Wedding. I was Heartbroken, because I "Allowed it"... And Carried that Guilt for Over a Decade...
Then on to My AFather, Whom Never Came thru when Ask, I Can Honestly Say, He was the Most Understanding of the Whole Deal... My Best Man had Got Sick and was in the Hospital and My AFather Stepped in as Best Man, So As Not To Draw Attention to the Absents...(My Sister then REFUSED To Walk down the Isle with Him, Because they didn't Speak!) So He Graciously Stepped to the Next Spot! The ONE Person I was Sure Would Fail Me, Came thru. Yet My Mom who I "Thought" would be My Biggest Support, Ruined the Vision I Had for "My Wedding!" Looking Back... She did what She Always has Done... "Guilted Me Into (Seeing Things Her Way), as She Stomps Away Like it was My Fault!" Which Always Triggered My Shame...I Still Struggle in my Life with that Part of Our Relationship...
I was Raised to Respect My Elders, and Never Talk Back... But For Her She Always Knew how to Put that Thumb on Me and Hold me Just where She Felt Comfy...As I See Her aging and things Changing in her Life, I Still Struggle to Accept where we are as Adults... I Love & Adore My Mother, but Since Joining Al-Anon 10 yrs ago, I Also See the Hold I Have Aloud her to Have on Me, My Emotions, and Some times My Reactions...
I Honestly Wish... My Mom Had a Program...Its Hard to Look Into Ourselves and See what we have Done to Others, and What Our Motives where in doing so... Thank you for Your Open & Honest Share... Parenting Sure doesn't Come with a Hand Book on "How Too!" and Why I Will Always be Grateful for My Program that Teaches me to Own My Part in Things... Its Rarely Easy... But like you Mentioned Very Humbling...
I Hope All Expectations are Left at the Door, and You Both Share in a Very Special Day when it Arrives, with Memories that Last a Lifetime :)
Thank you Again for your Share... I Hope when the Day comes my Son decides to Marry, I will Remember this Thread and Know to Keep My Side of the street Clean, While Standing in Support instead of Opinion :) So Thank you :) Please Take what you like and Leave the Rest...
Friends in Recovery
Jozie
bud said
Nov 6, 2018
SerenityRUS - Agree - I am fearful... I may be projecting, but what's happening is very real and all hers... I realize this is not my business, and I have many things to work on (like acceptance!). She is tearful because she's trying so hard to fit into what she believes is a functional family. The problem is that she does not recognize their dis-health, so she's seeing herself through someone else's unhealthy eyes. This is causing her a great deal of harm.
I'd like more than anything for her to have happy and healthy.
IamHere - Will do and lean into the program. I'd like to take it by the moment and figure out what makes me feel good each minute of the day. I do have much to be grateful for.
Jozie - thanks so much for your share and support for my big challenging side of my street. I feel my daughter felt bullied into having the wedding a certain way by other people. I didn't and don't want to add to that. I want her to be happy. I'm having a hard time overcoming my hurt that, for whatever reason, she didn't want me to have any guests at her wedding even now that she says I can invite someone. I really need to work on myself with respect to this as I want to get rid of my resentments and sharpen my Alanon skills as I believe there is going to be a lot more where this came from.
I'm grateful for the awesome shares and support that I'll be reading and re-reading several times!
mamalioness said
Nov 7, 2018
Dear Bud
Your last post here really reflects how well you are working your program even if you dont see it. The fact that you are willing to be accommodating and wanting your daughter to be happy at her special day, I am sure it is all going to work out and I am so very glad that you two talked it out and came to some sort of an understanding here. And I relate to her needing to be in a place of safety, because of the family dynamic That she grew up in. I absolutely love what Jozie said to you.
I just know this is all going to be beautiful and work out just fine and after things settle down and she is back into her routine, may be the two of you can have a loving mother and daughter chat and let you focus on your side of the street and whether she says anything about her side of the street is up to her. When I have had a disagreement with my younger daughter who is the only one in my life now , I make sure I keep the focus on my side of the street and what I did and what my part in the misunderstanding was and I always offer up to her that I am continuing to work on myself until I die and that I am a work in progress and I am trying. That always seems to work with her because I am always open and honest and willing with her and if it is something that I said or did, I am not afraid to own it, to take responsibility for it, and to make it right.
Sending you love and healing energy for both of you
bud said
Nov 7, 2018
Thank you Rose - this helps!
I will continue to be open to and encourage discussions, for sure.
I still am struggling with bad feelings and resentments and my stomach goes in knots when I think about her wedding and her fiancees family. I feel like I just want to crawl under a rock and isolate. It doesn't feel good to be around them. I didn't always feel this way, but it's like I hit a brick wall and I know I have to take care of what is inside of me. This may not change how unpleasant it is for me to think about her new family. It kinda changes how I feel about her too... I love her so much but it just feels fake to talk with her on the phone. I know how horrible this sounds and I wish I didn't feel this way.
SerenityRUS said
Nov 7, 2018
Big hugs bud .. ...i'm so glad you brought this here because i'm struggling with redefining my relationship withi my oldest. I am truly sorry you feel this way. I emphasize a great deal. What my current experience is teaching me is to let go. I tease both of my children the imprints I leave on their arms is me attempting to let go. My stuff is my stuff .. they don't need baggage that is not theirs to unpack .. they both have lessons .. they both have their life path regardless if I agree or not. I just encourage you to put the focus on you .. make it less about who you think your daughter should to be and accept regardless of what you think .. this is where she is .. it is so so so so hard to watch my kid fly into a straight head wind and not take the easier gentler path. It hurts my heart .. then I am reminded it's not about me. I have to sincerely think not to say " I told you so ". Lol not my lesson. Sigh .. this parenting stuff is hard lol. Hugs .. s :)
mamalioness said
Nov 7, 2018
((((Bud))))) yea, I get it...I've felt the same way with mine...hell!! i have a daughter who doesn't even acknowledge that I EXIST.....she gets out of jail...sober....NO program since shes been out, (over a year) going on 6 yrs. sober, I think, and all of a sudden, she kicks me to curb...NO explanation...ZERO communication...(I quit after the 5th email, trying to ask her what the hell did i do or say???) she puts me through hell with her drugging and all her life, since age 20, shes been a heartbreak, THEN she gets sober and doesn't need me anymore....so I don't get to reap all that hard work and tears I put into her when she was down and needing me........she doesn't need me anymore.....I had to let go...give up....toss in the towel...it hurts typing it, but it is LIFE....and life can be brutal...unfair....it can really suck, but this is my reality......so I am aware....after grief and anger/tears, I accept...now my action??? to keep putting out good energy, and to LOVE AND ACCEPT ME.....AS IS.....
my back spasms are for sure, "Stored pain" the burden of hate and resentment I have felt towards my dam and sire , yea, back spasms due to the PTSD, but mostly, I am sure due to the hate and resentment...i want sooo bad to get rid of it so I am "acting as if" I don't hate/resent/want to kill them/curse their souls.....I am acting AS IF, I gave up the resentment/hate, et al because to help ME.....
I know this is a bit off track, but you have a shot at a relationship with her, but I would WAIT till AFTER the wedding THEN invite her to lunch or whatever and have a heart to heart....no judgments, accusations, just a chat...and be open about how you've felt and how you hate feeling that way and you are taking responsibility for the negative feelings and you are working on you
she is your CHILD...she aint gonna divorce you, at least it does not look that way...Not like mine did....after a year, I don't see much hope of mine ever wanting a relationship with me...It is what it is...BUT....IF she wants to talk with me, yea, I'll talk with her and I'll keep the focus on me and MY esh, MY feelings, MY take, My actions and how this being kicked has made me feel, etc., but no "in her face" accusations, no shaming, no blaming, Nothing like that...Even tho She deserves me to kick her ass from West to East, it is HER karma to work out and learn....I'll be dead sooner then later , I've done my best with her, and I am not going to sell me out so she "might" speak to me???? I will be loving, firm, real , open, honest, no fake, no BS IF she ever wants to talk....and if she is not a positive in my life??? a detriment to my serenity??? then I will put me first for a change and sadly stay away from her....I've done my best...that is all one can do...I've loved her, stuck by her, and yea, I let her go to jail to save her life, and she even admitted that I saved her by letting her face her self, but the drug abuse, long term, has changed her from a loving, cuddly, funny angel girl to this cynical, out for herself and noone else, "world owes me" "entitled" lady, I don't even know....I will 4ever love her but I don't have to put my hand over the same flame that burns me each time...
YOUR situation looks a lot more hopeful then mine....Be patient..Wait...this is her biggest life event so far...let it all happen, the ceremony and everything and when it settles and she is back on earth, THEN approach her for a LOVING mom and daughter chat....You've got program training...you will do FINE!!! I swear!! I see this working out for you....She is into "self" right now because she is going to be a bride and most of them think they are princess Di and its all about them and for a short time it IS...So chill, hang with us....post here, vent your anger HERE!! and we will support you through this....YOU CAN DO THIS!!!! YOU CAN YOU CAN be OK!!!!!!! you WILL be OK
-- Edited by mamalioness on Wednesday 7th of November 2018 07:39:33 PM
Hi MIP Family,
I was angry, hungry, and tired when I said some things to my engaged daughter.
For the past 11 months she told me that I could not invite even a single guest to her wedding, as she wanted a small wedding and her fiancé has a large family. Initially, I tried to talk to her about this twice, and she bullied me into silence.
I tried to stuff my feelings, which has never ended well, but I felt like I didn't have another choice.
At her engagement party, I mingled a little with her friends and his family, but essentially observed everyone sharing the celebration with their friends and family. I felt alone.
Last week, I started to spill over and told her how alone I felt at her engagement party and said that I'm glad she's so happy but this dynamic has continued to seep between every aspect of our relationship.
To her credit, she asked her fiancé , "wouldn't my Mom have plenty of people to spend time with at the wedding!?" He told her that I would not... that his family would be busy with his family and her friends will be engaging mostly with each other. She called me yesterday to apologize. She said i could invite a few people and then dictated whom I may and may not invite. I wouldn't have invited anyone that was on her "no" list, but she didn't give me the option to tell her that.
She wanted to have dinner with me tonight and called this morning saying she was brining me a cookie. She wanted me to choose the dinner venue and said it was about me. Only... this was not the reality that I lived for the past 11 months and this did not feel like resolution or enough.
My side of the street started blustering a storm, as I've spent 11 months suffering from this and wasn't able to navigate the 180 degree turnaround as readily as her offer. And I did not want a consolation cookie! I wanted to have had this settled 11 months ago and resent that this happened and also took so long. Even the cookie triggered me as my exAH used to buy me gifts after he abused me.
Now my side of the street grew dark, as I was hungry, tired, and angry. I called to tell her I wasn't feeling good about our relationship, the wedding, or the upcoming "family" vacation with his family. I felt like a wallet that was a wedding guest.
She had some choice nonPG words and how I always think people are out to get me and hung up, followed by a nasty text message but the gist is that she doesn't want my money - that it's not about money.
Well, if it is not about money, then it actually feels worse.
I went down the phone list and looked at my side of the street.
I called her to let her know that I have some things to apologize for - to call back when she's able.
Any additional support / slogans while I wait would be greatly appreciated. I don't know what she could do to undo my hurt and that's something difficult to give to my HP. I feel like the underlying issues that caused this aren't resolved and I think this is why it's so hard for me to let go.
Thanks for listening!
I didn't want to respond because I didn't like the"if I was around part." I had already asked her to call and have nothing further to say until she does. I don't want to get into a negative / manipulative battle with her.
She did not call.
I'm tempted to text her the message that I left for her last night to be sure she got it, even though it seems that she did receive it and has elected to not return my call.
This whole thing has been painful and this is too.
I empathize on so many levels regarding adult children or children navigating the adult field.
Big hugs, the best thing I have done is keep the door open and not allow my ego to dictate the who called who, even if it means I have to eat a little crow and make that initial phone call. Do I want to be right or do I want to be happy? This is where I have leaned on other alanon friends to help me work through my disappointments and my issues. Especially the issue that how dare my kids not behave the way "I" think they should behave.
I think one of my biggest things that really hits the trigger for me is not being heard by the other party. Or better yet my perception of not being heard because it becomes about me even when it's not.
Pause, pray and proceed with what's best for you however I encourage you to let go of who's right and who's wrong .. at least for me that leaves me stuck in pity and martyrdom .. after all you have stated your feelings regarding the issue of the wedding guests your daughter has heard you and she's wrapped up in all about her.
I just had a discussion this weekend with my BF about children and selfishness. I think because I am a late bloomer in terms of understanding some of the challenges my mom went through as a single parent, it wasn't until I had to walk the path (although she's going to say she had it harder with me just me .. lol) .. that I have a greater understanding as well as appreciation for some of the difficulties she faced .. I still don't agree with some of her decisions .. you know it's in the past and I can't change that. My kids have both made choices I don't agree with and when necessary I have let them know that's the line I am not going past.
As a parent .. I forget that not only do I have different perceptions of my own childhood my children are entitled to theirs as well. Some of them make me uncomfortable because at the time I wasn't ok. I find I do take things I shouldn't personally and it's really not my lesson to haggle with. I am certainly not an advocate of condoning unacceptable behavior .. I think for me it's about not taking things personally, creating my boundaries and knowing even if we have a disagreement .. the bottom line is I know I love my kids and they love me .. regardless of the "fun" we throw into dysfunction.
Anyway, big hugs .. I hope you will practice some self care that you need and deserve and are able to make this a happy occasion regardless of who is or isn't there at the wedding.
S :)
Bud..... sorry you are hurting, as it's always difficult to see the big picture when our emotions are so damaged from past experiences....
As I read your post (and certainly not taking sides - there is no value in that at all) - it does seem that your daughter was offering you an olive branch, and made a kind and genuine movement from her earlier position - and unfortunately your past hurts from the relationship may have gotten in the way of you being able to sincerely accept her gesture?? IF this is the case, it takes a big person to do it, but perhaps an olive branch back from mom to daughter - to give her thanks for the movement she has granted you for (her) wedding, and hopefully you can be at peace with it all. From my perspective, she tried to do the right thing for you - offered you a few friends (even if they were specified, lol). Far from perfect, but a decent gesture all the same??
We get so much mud on us with all our relationships, that even when we get some legitimate "success" thrown our way, we aren't healthy enough ourselves to readily and humbly accept it.
Food for thought,
Hugs,
Tom
My oldest and his baby momma are very close to her momma and new husband. They don't have the baggage with my son that I do so I get it. He is a lovely person when he wants to be and he's funny, intelligent, witty, etc. I kept asking just for equal time/treatment and he couldn't see what I felt nor could he change/fix it. My sponsor suggested ongoing gratitude lists for what I do get from them, and to focus on quality time and not quantity time. It hurts deeply to watch them all gather and have inside stories that I don't understand as I'm removed. Also, for the grandkids events, her whole family is present and their friends, etc. and it's usually just me and my AH (when he goes). I am not a part of, I am a part from yet I show up, support the babies, treat everyone with courtesy and respect and trust the process. I may/may not ever be part of he 'in group' and I can accept that today - not even remotely what I thought life would be like with adult children but I do believe God has a plan that's so outstanding, it will be better than what I ever hoped for.
I learned early on to say Thank you often. This next generation needs recognition and rewards. I don't believe deeply in celebrating 'doing the next right thing' but I've gotten better about that simply because I was very quick to point out when I felt they were wrong or wronging me. So - I let go of my perceived hurts and focus on what's good and it is slowly helping the relationship/both of us heal.
If I had my choice, we'd sit down, hash out the past, make our amends, hug and just move forward. Yet, it is in recovery that I've learned I rarely get 'my way' and I can choose to accept that or I can keep fighting for my will/way. It's much more serene for me to go with the former...
So - chin up girl - you've got a program and you've got some tools to pick from. Consider what you 'need' vs. what you 'want' and consider what is really important, just for today, for you and this relationship. I have faith in you - you got this!! I'm sending you positive thoughts and prayers!
WOW!! So grateful you brought this here Bud. It caused me to review many of the powerful lessons I got and get in program some soft and fluffy and still very important and others more direct and of a point and then the slogans that came with the lessons like "Let go and let GOD" with "IT AINT ALL ABOUT ME". I use to go to war about and for my EGO (MY EASING GOD OUT). It was an amazing lesson for me when I learned how demanding I was and often still am and while "no" is a complete sentence and I love to recall it hearing someone tell me no can still kill my spirit.
I hope it works out for you and that you and she find common ground to stand on in a hug.
BUD and IAH make my spirit woozy...lol
SerenityRUS - "I think one of my biggest things that really hits the trigger for me is not being heard by the other party. Or better yet my perception of not being heard because it becomes about me even when it's not. " Oh boy, does this describe my trigger too!
Tom- Thank you for this level of clarity she absolutely gave an olive branch and I believe it was I who threw mud on myself and my daughter.
IamHere - yes and the cookie felt like a participation trophy lol. I like the idea of saying thank you more often. I am also of the mindset of hashing things out and moving forward and I know that is not always an option. I was struggling.
Jerry - I'm so grateful for your share too. I was having a hard time letting go and letting God. Read on for the common ground and the hug....
She called this morning and we had a long talk that started with me making amends and offering sincere apologies for not responding better when she tried to correct things. She has had a lot of anxiety surrounding the wedding and family to be. She remembered my approaching her but made an assumption it was regarding something else.
She was in tears how hard she was trying. I felt so humbled and told her how much I love her and would wish for her to stop trying so hard and to just be.
We both identified it was the same unhealthy pattern in both of us that perpetuated this. ... likely a horrible sad "gift" that I inadvertently passed to her from pre-Alanon days.
We're in uncharted territory, but working through this together in the best way we know how. Thanks so much for helping me have a better understanding, which then opened possibilities for a better outcome.
(((MIP Familiy))) I am blessed!
my older daughter is still MIA from my life...drugs changed her and i have to accept her AS IS, it is what it is, not what I had hoped for when she was my "little blondie" and clean and full of love and hugs for me....that girl is gone...In her place is this cynical, "i love you if you can give to me/do for me" girl whose love has so many conditions, I had to let HER go as well....As I grow, I realize that DNA is not a carte blanche on my heart nor does it guarantee that the relationship(s) will be happy and healthy.....
I've had to let a lot of loved ones go because lessons on my part were learned and I no longer bring that kind of pain to me...Its hard when its a child or a niece..it real hard, but I'm taking care of me now and focusing on the good, loving, healthy relationships that I DO have
I see you have accepted that you may have been HALT and you accept that...and I see that you really want to make amends and have a relationship with her....If this were me, I would just take responsibility for my part in the issue here...express my sorrow that I reacted rather then responded, and tell her you love her and your amend is to continue to work on yourself so as to not repeat....and let it go at that!!! the other either accepts our amends or they don't...OR they may need a cooling period first...whatever the case, she and her response is out of your hands....I hope you don't beat yourself up over this...its OK to be human as long as we are aware...being aware, brings on acceptance, which brings on good action....
I think when she cools down, things will work out OK.......IN SUPPORT
I appreciate the validation and I did hard-line keeping to my amends and responsibility for my part. She tried to further engage me, dump other stuff, finger-point, etc and told me that was my responsibility too. I let her know how much I love her but had already took responsibility and apologized for what was mine.
After expressing anger/frustration, she remained on the phone to have a more productive outcome.
She was worried that this would happen again under the circumstances, so together we revisited how this may roll out... I told her that if I had something that bothered me and approach her with it, that I will say what I need to say nicely, briefly, and only once. She has a problem with this because she thought she may not be fully listening, so she may revert again to shutting me down. She asked if this happens that I state something like, "I'm sure you don't want me to be hurt by ___."
I don't like repeating myself. I spent a lifetime trying to over-explain myself and have practiced hard to not do that. I can try what she wants and see if it makes a difference. (why does this feel like a lot of work?!
I didn't wake up one day and find myself 30 lbs. overweight! It happened -- from unhealthy eating, unhealthy habits, etc. -- over the course of time! And, I had to lose the weight, over the course of time. I didn't go on a diet on Monday and wake up on Tuesday and I lose 30 lbs.! That was the analogy that I had to learn and get ACCEPTANCE around. What got broke over the course of time needed to be fixed -- in me, about me, and by me -- over the course of time. That, my friend, is the support I can give you from my experience.
You had AWARENESS around HALT (hungry, angry, lonely, tired), and that's a very good thing! Now you have to put forth SELF-CARE, and do the work for you, around you, and it's done by you.
You are right -- the UNDERLYING ISSUES that brought you to this point, have not been resolved. That's where you have to start -- YOU! Not her, not about her! YOU! Talk to your sponsor, work on this. Your daughter may not be "emotionally available" right now for this. I wouldn't expect her to be. So, what does that mean to you? ACCEPTANCE. You have to be patient and wait.
All the best.
bud, I didn't see your post about having spoken with her...great job! All the best.
I also get frustrated with not being heard. Many moons ago, we were forced into a variety of 'soft sills' training at my place of employment. Things such as Listening, Communications, Working with Difficult People, etc. Each of these soft skills repeated one item across the board - it takes on average repeating something 7 times for it to be fully heard. Apparently, I filed that away and kind of forgot about it.
Flash forward to living with this disease, and my sponsor who is also a retired therapist said the same line to me! Amazing how it came together in my brain - not being heard isn't about me being ignored or dismissed (as I thought) - it's about how communication does/does not work well, and the other person's ability to actually hear what's being said! I am not a fan of repeating my needs either but am more willing now since I do want peace and I and others are imperfect. I've decided it's better to repeat myself than not and being of a certain age, I'll even start by saying, "This might be repeat information, but ................................"
You got this - way to stay on your side of the street and take care of you! Best to you both - wedding are stressful as are most family events! (((Hugs)))
So many of the wedding things weren't sitting right with me and I worried about her motives as I watched her anxiety climb to an all time high this past year. Underneath, was a false belief and a major expectation attached to it; a great recipe for disaster.
In addition, her friends and his family took it upon themselves to "intervene" with prodding questions and impose their opinion about how she "should" seek and beg her dad to come to the wedding.
Her decision is no one's business and she owes no explanation. My exAH continued to steep in his disease and was horribly abusive physically and emotionally. He has not been in touch with her other than to blame her for all the things wrong in his world. She practices safety and self care by not having contact.
I suggested she dial up her self care when people continue to be so horribly insensitive. I visualize them doing this at her wedding too. 90% of the wedding is her fiancees family, but that's another story. I made some suggestions so she could respond from a position of strength and it's ok to have a strong response to close the topic. If anyone has further ideas on this... I'm listening!
I also know I always, always leave meetings feeling better than when I arrived no matter how I am feeling so am one that ups my meetings when I am exposed to family for long periods of time. It just centers me, reminds me where I was and where I am today instead.
Lastly, I love gratitude lists, and when there is 'life' happening around me, it always helps me to find gratitude in having a recovery program, and remembering that others may not. This opens my heart to mean 'Bless Them, Change Me' when I state this mantra over and over in my head! You got this!!!
WOW... What a Thread :0) So Glad that you and your Daughter had a Chance to "Talk it Out"... Sometimes for Me, Just Voting with my Feet, Sharing Here... and Taking Time to Breathe thru it, I Find I Can Better Remove My Ego and Self-righteousness from things I have Shifted the Focus too...
You took me back over 18yrs ago when I got Married... My Mom Told me in her "Mom Voice" that I wasn't allowed to have my Best friend as My Maid of Honor, It had to be My Sister, "Too whom I Never Had a Close Relationship with!" (Because its Just the RIGHT Thing to DO!) The Rest of MY Wedding party was Over Taken by her Line Up, and the ONE Gal that I Wanted to Stand Next to Me was at the End of the Row.. Even tho she was the Only Person that Helped Me Prepare, Find a Dress, Make Decoration, Set Up & She & Her Son Sung at My Wedding. I was Heartbroken, because I "Allowed it"... And Carried that Guilt for Over a Decade...
Then on to My AFather, Whom Never Came thru when Ask, I Can Honestly Say, He was the Most Understanding of the Whole Deal... My Best Man had Got Sick and was in the Hospital and My AFather Stepped in as Best Man, So As Not To Draw Attention to the Absents...(My Sister then REFUSED To Walk down the Isle with Him, Because they didn't Speak!) So He Graciously Stepped to the Next Spot! The ONE Person I was Sure Would Fail Me, Came thru. Yet My Mom who I "Thought" would be My Biggest Support, Ruined the Vision I Had for "My Wedding!" Looking Back... She did what She Always has Done... "Guilted Me Into (Seeing Things Her Way), as She Stomps Away Like it was My Fault!" Which Always Triggered My Shame...I Still Struggle in my Life with that Part of Our Relationship...
I was Raised to Respect My Elders, and Never Talk Back... But For Her She Always Knew how to Put that Thumb on Me and Hold me Just where She Felt Comfy...As I See Her aging and things Changing in her Life, I Still Struggle to Accept where we are as Adults... I Love & Adore My Mother, but Since Joining Al-Anon 10 yrs ago, I Also See the Hold I Have Aloud her to Have on Me, My Emotions, and Some times My Reactions...
I Honestly Wish... My Mom Had a Program...Its Hard to Look Into Ourselves and See what we have Done to Others, and What Our Motives where in doing so... Thank you for Your Open & Honest Share... Parenting Sure doesn't Come with a Hand Book on "How Too!" and Why I Will Always be Grateful for My Program that Teaches me to Own My Part in Things... Its Rarely Easy... But like you Mentioned Very Humbling...
I Hope All Expectations are Left at the Door, and You Both Share in a Very Special Day when it Arrives, with Memories that Last a Lifetime :)
Thank you Again for your Share... I Hope when the Day comes my Son decides to Marry, I will Remember this Thread and Know to Keep My Side of the street Clean, While Standing in Support instead of Opinion :) So Thank you :) Please Take what you like and Leave the Rest...
Friends in Recovery
Jozie
I'd like more than anything for her to have happy and healthy.
IamHere - Will do and lean into the program. I'd like to take it by the moment and figure out what makes me feel good each minute of the day. I do have much to be grateful for.
Jozie - thanks so much for your share and support for my big challenging side of my street. I feel my daughter felt bullied into having the wedding a certain way by other people. I didn't and don't want to add to that. I want her to be happy. I'm having a hard time overcoming my hurt that, for whatever reason, she didn't want me to have any guests at her wedding even now that she says I can invite someone. I really need to work on myself with respect to this as I want to get rid of my resentments and sharpen my Alanon skills as I believe there is going to be a lot more where this came from.
I'm grateful for the awesome shares and support that I'll be reading and re-reading several times!
Your last post here really reflects how well you are working your program even if you dont see it. The fact that you are willing to be accommodating and wanting your daughter to be happy at her special day, I am sure it is all going to work out and I am so very glad that you two talked it out and came to some sort of an understanding here. And I relate to her needing to be in a place of safety, because of the family dynamic That she grew up in. I absolutely love what Jozie said to you.
I just know this is all going to be beautiful and work out just fine and after things settle down and she is back into her routine, may be the two of you can have a loving mother and daughter chat and let you focus on your side of the street and whether she says anything about her side of the street is up to her. When I have had a disagreement with my younger daughter who is the only one in my life now , I make sure I keep the focus on my side of the street and what I did and what my part in the misunderstanding was and I always offer up to her that I am continuing to work on myself until I die and that I am a work in progress and I am trying. That always seems to work with her because I am always open and honest and willing with her and if it is something that I said or did, I am not afraid to own it, to take responsibility for it, and to make it right.
Sending you love and healing energy for both of you
I will continue to be open to and encourage discussions, for sure.
I still am struggling with bad feelings and resentments and my stomach goes in knots when I think about her wedding and her fiancees family. I feel like I just want to crawl under a rock and isolate. It doesn't feel good to be around them. I didn't always feel this way, but it's like I hit a brick wall and I know I have to take care of what is inside of me. This may not change how unpleasant it is for me to think about her new family. It kinda changes how I feel about her too... I love her so much but it just feels fake to talk with her on the phone. I know how horrible this sounds and I wish I didn't feel this way.
((((Bud))))) yea, I get it...I've felt the same way with mine...hell!! i have a daughter who doesn't even acknowledge that I EXIST.....she gets out of jail...sober....NO program since shes been out, (over a year) going on 6 yrs. sober, I think, and all of a sudden, she kicks me to curb...NO explanation...ZERO communication...(I quit after the 5th email, trying to ask her what the hell did i do or say???) she puts me through hell with her drugging and all her life, since age 20, shes been a heartbreak, THEN she gets sober and doesn't need me anymore....so I don't get to reap all that hard work and tears I put into her when she was down and needing me........she doesn't need me anymore.....I had to let go...give up....toss in the towel...it hurts typing it, but it is LIFE....and life can be brutal...unfair....it can really suck, but this is my reality......so I am aware....after grief and anger/tears, I accept...now my action??? to keep putting out good energy, and to LOVE AND ACCEPT ME.....AS IS.....
my back spasms are for sure, "Stored pain" the burden of hate and resentment I have felt towards my dam and sire , yea, back spasms due to the PTSD, but mostly, I am sure due to the hate and resentment...i want sooo bad to get rid of it so I am "acting as if" I don't hate/resent/want to kill them/curse their souls.....I am acting AS IF, I gave up the resentment/hate, et al because to help ME.....
I know this is a bit off track, but you have a shot at a relationship with her, but I would WAIT till AFTER the wedding THEN invite her to lunch or whatever and have a heart to heart....no judgments, accusations, just a chat...and be open about how you've felt and how you hate feeling that way and you are taking responsibility for the negative feelings and you are working on you
she is your CHILD...she aint gonna divorce you, at least it does not look that way...Not like mine did....after a year, I don't see much hope of mine ever wanting a relationship with me...It is what it is...BUT....IF she wants to talk with me, yea, I'll talk with her and I'll keep the focus on me and MY esh, MY feelings, MY take, My actions and how this being kicked has made me feel, etc., but no "in her face" accusations, no shaming, no blaming, Nothing like that...Even tho She deserves me to kick her ass from West to East, it is HER karma to work out and learn....I'll be dead sooner then later , I've done my best with her, and I am not going to sell me out so she "might" speak to me???? I will be loving, firm, real , open, honest, no fake, no BS IF she ever wants to talk....and if she is not a positive in my life??? a detriment to my serenity??? then I will put me first for a change and sadly stay away from her....I've done my best...that is all one can do...I've loved her, stuck by her, and yea, I let her go to jail to save her life, and she even admitted that I saved her by letting her face her self, but the drug abuse, long term, has changed her from a loving, cuddly, funny angel girl to this cynical, out for herself and noone else, "world owes me" "entitled" lady, I don't even know....I will 4ever love her but I don't have to put my hand over the same flame that burns me each time...
YOUR situation looks a lot more hopeful then mine....Be patient..Wait...this is her biggest life event so far...let it all happen, the ceremony and everything and when it settles and she is back on earth, THEN approach her for a LOVING mom and daughter chat....You've got program training...you will do FINE!!! I swear!! I see this working out for you....She is into "self" right now because she is going to be a bride and most of them think they are princess Di and its all about them and for a short time it IS...So chill, hang with us....post here, vent your anger HERE!! and we will support you through this....YOU CAN DO THIS!!!! YOU CAN YOU CAN be OK!!!!!!! you WILL be OK
-- Edited by mamalioness on Wednesday 7th of November 2018 07:39:33 PM