I knew better but still have old unhealthy patterns of being conflict avoidant at any cost.
I've recently been shocked at a "friend's" behavior towards me name calling, standing me up for plans and after I'm there sending a lame text "I'm out having fun with X, hope you're not upset."
She had borrowed equipment from me that I now want back. Somehow I got the nerve to drive to her house and knock on her door and say I'm here to pick it up. She wanted to chat to justify her bad behavior. Each awful justification was met with a monotone Alanon "OK". Seeing she hadn't made headway, she apologized for behaving horridly and being selfish followed by more justification and validation that all relationships have this kind of abuse and she deserves respect from me. (imagine that! lol I guess her version of respect meant hanging around for more abuse, but don't worry ... I know this is not part of the program.)
In between her garbly-gook, I heard anger leaking out of every nook and cranny. I said nothing and just looked at her in the eye, saw her crazy, and held my hand out for the equipment. I think people like this realize when someone recognizes their crazy and it scares them more...the truth revealed means zero manipulation leverage. She handed the equipment to me and rattled on, back-peddling a little more, but continued to counter with disclaimers/ justification. Not out of ammo, this was followed by manipulation... apparently she wanted me to show her the new barn I'm affiliated with. (calling me names and treating me worse than dog poo really didn't carry her in the direction she wanted to go!)
Thanks to Alanon, I'm now smart enough to know a brick wall when I see one. I also know that it doesn't matter when there's crazy, gas-lighting, name calling, etc where their anger comes from... I used to give things time and energy into figuring it out. Today, I just identified it, let it be, and detached. (so this is what it's like safety in the eye of the storm and thank you HP!)
It's incredible how many, many years it took for me to have a voice, and then to regain it after having lost it again. I could not believe how steady my gaze was, looking at her in the eye, unemotional, and with the softest but firm voice... "Not every selfish person is hurtful. I'm not going to modify how I think about your asinine behavior just so you don't have to stop being abusive."
There was silence and she took a step back away from me.
I waited no more. I got into my car and escaped.
I have my equipment, and more importantly my dignity. I don't know why I still get shocked when someone shows me their crazy.
Thanks for listening.
Skorpi said
Oct 3, 2018
Thanks for sharing, Bud!
Hearing how others use the AlAnon tools helps me so much.
Bo said
Oct 3, 2018
bud wrote:
Thanks to Alanon, I'm now smart enough to know a brick wall when I see one. I also know that it doesn't matter when there's crazy, gas-lighting, name calling, etc where their anger comes from... I used to give things time and energy into figuring it out. Today, I just identified it, let it be, and detached. (so this is what it's like safety in the eye of the storm and thank you HP!)
I love this!!! Absolutely love it. In my experience, too many people either don't get this, short-cut learning this, or neglect it. Thank you so very much for pointing this out and saying it so clearly! I think it's not just knowing a brick wall when we see it...it is also everything else you said, and that's the important part. It doesn't matter!!! I've said this for so long and so many times -- and the more you try and figure it out, the more you drive yourself crazy! The time and energy spent trying to figure out what can't be figured out...is time and energy lost, it's a distraction, and it is not getting better, getting healthy.
Thank you very much again for posting this, and if I offended you by using the quote feature, I apologize.
hotrod said
Oct 3, 2018
Good Morning Bud great use of program and powerful ESH Thanks
tiredtonite said
Oct 3, 2018
:) Way to work it! Glad you took care of yourself. (((hugs)) TT
Jozie said
Oct 3, 2018
(((Bud)))
Great Share, I had to Move thru Something similar many Years ago, I had Only been in the Program a Few Short Years, but the More I worked on me, the More I Noticed the Abuse I was Receiving some times Daily from one Said Other.... It was One of the Hardest Relationships I EVER had to walk away from, I think it hurt me Way more then them, because I Still to this Day Love them dearly, I just had to realize My life was Just as Important as theirs even if they didn't feel the same...
The tools of this Program Truly do work if you want to Put the time and effort into a Better, More Meaningful life... I Never thought that 8 years ago, not only would I walk away from this Toxic relationship, but that I Would Also in that Same Year become Sober Myself... Nothing in my Life Prepared me for that! All I Knew was Addiction and Insanity, and Once "Al-Anon & MIP" Not AA Showed me the Way to a Better Me, I Was Ready to put the work in...
You are a Shining Example of "It Works When we Work it!" Great Job, and Thanks for Your ESH...
Please Take what you like and Leave the Rest :)
Friends in Recovery
Jozie
PosiesandPuppies said
Oct 3, 2018
ALRIGHT!! YOU GO BUD!!!
I LOVED how you stood your ground... stood with your own TRUTH... and did not falter when you looked this person's "crazy" in the eye!!
I also loved not only what you told this person, but the WAY you said it!!
You are ROCKIN' IT!!
Iamhere said
Oct 3, 2018
Way to work it Bud - the longer we work recovery, the sooner we see the 'crazy/controlling' in others. Your post reminded me of the three A(s) - Awareness, Acceptance, Action. Keep working it - looks awesome on you! No better way to depart any situation than with dignity and grace! AWESOME program skills!!!
Aline said
Oct 3, 2018
Thanks for sharing, bud... What a difference this program makes in our lives, huh? Awesome
bud said
Oct 3, 2018
Thank you Skorpi- I feel like I finally made it to the tippy top of the smallest mountain... now on to the next...
Bo - thank you and so validating to know I'm not alone. SO cool you used the quote feature certainly no offense taken... this may be my first Alanon quote... so honored
Appreciate your steadfast support Betty... the many smart and wonderful things you've said since I've joined MIP are getting some traction. I'm so grateful!
Thanks TT I suppose I had enough of stuffing things back down and pretending it didn't happen....
speaking of which....
She texted today to invite me somewhere. Too little too late. I've already exited. In the past, I'd hang around for the hook... then bite to find it also had a line and sinker.
Thank you ((Jozie)) I'm now able to break away when people issue the ultimatum of me or them. It used to be so hard to do this and now I can't imagine staying near it one second more.
Thanks PosesandPuppies - As a child I was groomed to overlook the truth in favor of surviving someone else's unhealthy distortion. I love your saying about the truth having the strength and power of a lion. When I can let go of outcomes, it feels so good to stand behind my truth instead of standing in front of it!
IamHere - thank you for attaching the appropriate Alanon slogan of the three As. I believe I have always been aware, but had to grow into acceptance and action.
Aline - thank you and yes this program and the support of our MIP family can really make a major difference. I'm so grateful!
Bo said
Oct 4, 2018
You are welcome. No, not only are you not alone, but you are in a good place as well. I absolutely feel what you feel on this -- and I so appreciate, admire, and respect how you were able to clearly and concisely express it, in a way that can benefit so many others. I have seen, countless times, people who aren't getting better, making progress, etc. -- because they are stuck, trying to "figure it out" so to speak. Think about the the movie Rain Man, with Tom Cruise and Dustin Hoffman. There is a scene where Dustin Hoffman is trying to "figure out" and solve the classic "Who's on first?" riddle. He keeps going and going, round and round, in this circular exercise, trying to figure out exactly who is on first base!!! He drives Tom Cruise crazy to the point where Cruise finally yells at Hoffman and says it's a riddle, there is no answer, you can't figure it out...and the name of the guy on first base is "WHO" LOL.
Moral of the story -- don't try and figure out that which can't be figured out. You will in fact drive yourself crazy -- with anger, rage, resentment, frustration, pain, sadness, disappointment, guilt, and potentially more.
We have the cliche -- cut bait or fish. Paralysis by analysis. It's common, it happens, a lot, to the loved ones of alcoholics and addicts. There are many common byproducts. Many common ailments. Many common consequences. And, we have a program...it works if you work it.
bud said
Oct 4, 2018
Bo - TRUTH!!!
Also, ironically she kept saying let's move past this. In the past, I'd take this at face value with all the trimmings of expectations to go with it. (I must have quite a large U-Haul of expectations and make quick work of unpacking them! )
I have come to believe that there is a difference in how one moves past things with respect to if I'm really/ they're able to move past them. In my experience, ignoring things or sweeping them under the rug isn't moving past anything. This woman continued to pepper conversations with things she's stated she has moved past. Moving past things to her seemed to mean that I would now do everything her way. I wonder if this is also her definition of a good friend, or even love. I have learned to perceive this attitude as having a threatening tone... as in, next time I'll know better to submit to someone else's will no matter what or their will be an even stronger punishment levied... (get goosebumps writing this and I take that as an appropriate response)
Only now I have a wonderful supportive HP and MIP family to know how to value myself, no matter someone else's "hook" of a weak moral compass that feeds into my own compromised one that I'm learning to strengthen.
I hope this makes sense because for the longest time I've felt "wrong" when someone else wronged me; now it feels "wrong" because being true to myself and not allowing myself to suffer someone's punishment is new. While it feels unnatural, it also feels pretty amazing.
norasq said
Oct 12, 2018
So glad you shared this! What struck me and what I really relate to is how when you say less, it reveals more. Youre saying ok as your friend kept saying excuses, etc, allowed you to hold your ground and see what was going on. Good for you.
bud said
Oct 12, 2018
Thanks Norasq -
Yes, the "ok" means I heard them, not that I agree with what someone is saying. A long time ago, an Alanon member suggested I use this technique for deflecting and avoiding an argument.
By practicing not engaging or showing up to every argument, more is definitely revealed.
... And she's still at it. After contacting me one time last week and this week to see if I wanted to "try" and get together, I texted that I had plans. (which I do, with people who don't call me names, don't stand me up, don't try and manipulate and bully me to do what they want.) She was trying to manipulate me so that I would show her my new barn... I'd like peace and quiet and so inviting her there is just not going to happen!
So today, she let her anger out, saying how childish I am (because I won't meet her demands) and that her daughter was flying in and she was going to invite me for dinner but now will not be doing that. She then said she won't be chasing me anymore. (twice she texted and she's already exhausted .... and I should be so lucky ). I know I can't change her perceptions or selfishness. I've heard her state many times that "from now on, I'm doing what I want and not making changes for anyone..." OK, so now I know what that means...
I have not responded and do not intend to respond. I do not want her behavior in my life. It's sad she won't change, but on the bright side...
Since I wrote the original post, I've been in touch with old friends and also made some nice new acquaintances who are warm, funny, responsive, responsible, caring, respectful... MIP!
I knew better but still have old unhealthy patterns of being conflict avoidant at any cost.
I've recently been shocked at a "friend's" behavior towards me name calling, standing me up for plans and after I'm there sending a lame text "I'm out having fun with X, hope you're not upset."
She had borrowed equipment from me that I now want back. Somehow I got the nerve to drive to her house and knock on her door and say I'm here to pick it up. She wanted to chat to justify her bad behavior. Each awful justification was met with a monotone Alanon "OK". Seeing she hadn't made headway, she apologized for behaving horridly and being selfish followed by more justification and validation that all relationships have this kind of abuse and she deserves respect from me. (imagine that! lol I guess her version of respect meant hanging around for more abuse, but don't worry ... I know this is not part of the program.)
In between her garbly-gook, I heard anger leaking out of every nook and cranny. I said nothing and just looked at her in the eye, saw her crazy, and held my hand out for the equipment. I think people like this realize when someone recognizes their crazy and it scares them more...the truth revealed means zero manipulation leverage. She handed the equipment to me and rattled on, back-peddling a little more, but continued to counter with disclaimers/ justification. Not out of ammo, this was followed by manipulation... apparently she wanted me to show her the new barn I'm affiliated with. (calling me names and treating me worse than dog poo really didn't carry her in the direction she wanted to go!)
Thanks to Alanon, I'm now smart enough to know a brick wall when I see one. I also know that it doesn't matter when there's crazy, gas-lighting, name calling, etc where their anger comes from... I used to give things time and energy into figuring it out. Today, I just identified it, let it be, and detached. (so this is what it's like safety in the eye of the storm and thank you HP!)
It's incredible how many, many years it took for me to have a voice, and then to regain it after having lost it again. I could not believe how steady my gaze was, looking at her in the eye, unemotional, and with the softest but firm voice... "Not every selfish person is hurtful. I'm not going to modify how I think about your asinine behavior just so you don't have to stop being abusive."
There was silence and she took a step back away from me.
I waited no more. I got into my car and escaped.
I have my equipment, and more importantly my dignity. I don't know why I still get shocked when someone shows me their crazy.
Thanks for listening.
Hearing how others use the AlAnon tools helps me so much.
I love this!!! Absolutely love it. In my experience, too many people either don't get this, short-cut learning this, or neglect it. Thank you so very much for pointing this out and saying it so clearly! I think it's not just knowing a brick wall when we see it...it is also everything else you said, and that's the important part. It doesn't matter!!! I've said this for so long and so many times -- and the more you try and figure it out, the more you drive yourself crazy! The time and energy spent trying to figure out what can't be figured out...is time and energy lost, it's a distraction, and it is not getting better, getting healthy.
Thank you very much again for posting this, and if I offended you by using the quote feature, I apologize.
Great Share, I had to Move thru Something similar many Years ago, I had Only been in the Program a Few Short Years, but the More I worked on me, the More I Noticed the Abuse I was Receiving some times Daily from one Said Other.... It was One of the Hardest Relationships I EVER had to walk away from, I think it hurt me Way more then them, because I Still to this Day Love them dearly, I just had to realize My life was Just as Important as theirs even if they didn't feel the same...
The tools of this Program Truly do work if you want to Put the time and effort into a Better, More Meaningful life... I Never thought that 8 years ago, not only would I walk away from this Toxic relationship, but that I Would Also in that Same Year become Sober Myself... Nothing in my Life Prepared me for that! All I Knew was Addiction and Insanity, and Once "Al-Anon & MIP" Not AA Showed me the Way to a Better Me, I Was Ready to put the work in...
You are a Shining Example of "It Works When we Work it!" Great Job, and Thanks for Your ESH...
Please Take what you like and Leave the Rest :)
Friends in Recovery
Jozie
ALRIGHT!! YOU GO BUD!!!
I LOVED how you stood your ground... stood with your own TRUTH... and did not falter when you looked this person's "crazy" in the eye!!
I also loved not only what you told this person, but the WAY you said it!!
You are ROCKIN' IT!!
Bo - thank you and so validating to know I'm not alone. SO cool you used the quote feature certainly no offense taken... this may be my first Alanon quote... so honored
Appreciate your steadfast support Betty... the many smart and wonderful things you've said since I've joined MIP are getting some traction. I'm so grateful!
Thanks TT I suppose I had enough of stuffing things back down and pretending it didn't happen....
speaking of which....
She texted today to invite me somewhere. Too little too late. I've already exited. In the past, I'd hang around for the hook... then bite to find it also had a line and sinker.
Thank you ((Jozie)) I'm now able to break away when people issue the ultimatum of me or them. It used to be so hard to do this and now I can't imagine staying near it one second more.
Thanks PosesandPuppies - As a child I was groomed to overlook the truth in favor of surviving someone else's unhealthy distortion. I love your saying about the truth having the strength and power of a lion. When I can let go of outcomes, it feels so good to stand behind my truth instead of standing in front of it!
IamHere - thank you for attaching the appropriate Alanon slogan of the three As. I believe I have always been aware, but had to grow into acceptance and action.
Aline - thank you and yes this program and the support of our MIP family can really make a major difference. I'm so grateful!
Moral of the story -- don't try and figure out that which can't be figured out. You will in fact drive yourself crazy -- with anger, rage, resentment, frustration, pain, sadness, disappointment, guilt, and potentially more.
We have the cliche -- cut bait or fish. Paralysis by analysis. It's common, it happens, a lot, to the loved ones of alcoholics and addicts. There are many common byproducts. Many common ailments. Many common consequences. And, we have a program...it works if you work it.
Also, ironically she kept saying let's move past this. In the past, I'd take this at face value with all the trimmings of expectations to go with it. (I must have quite a large U-Haul of expectations and make quick work of unpacking them!
I have come to believe that there is a difference in how one moves past things with respect to if I'm really/ they're able to move past them. In my experience, ignoring things or sweeping them under the rug isn't moving past anything. This woman continued to pepper conversations with things she's stated she has moved past. Moving past things to her seemed to mean that I would now do everything her way. I wonder if this is also her definition of a good friend, or even love. I have learned to perceive this attitude as having a threatening tone... as in, next time I'll know better to submit to someone else's will no matter what or their will be an even stronger punishment levied... (get goosebumps writing this and I take that as an appropriate response)
Only now I have a wonderful supportive HP and MIP family to know how to value myself, no matter someone else's "hook" of a weak moral compass that feeds into my own compromised one that I'm learning to strengthen.
I hope this makes sense because for the longest time I've felt "wrong" when someone else wronged me; now it feels "wrong" because being true to myself and not allowing myself to suffer someone's punishment is new. While it feels unnatural, it also feels pretty amazing.
Yes, the "ok" means I heard them, not that I agree with what someone is saying. A long time ago, an Alanon member suggested I use this technique for deflecting and avoiding an argument.
By practicing not engaging or showing up to every argument, more is definitely revealed.
... And she's still at it. After contacting me one time last week and this week to see if I wanted to "try" and get together, I texted that I had plans. (which I do, with people who don't call me names, don't stand me up, don't try and manipulate and bully me to do what they want.) She was trying to manipulate me so that I would show her my new barn... I'd like peace and quiet and so inviting her there is just not going to happen!
So today, she let her anger out, saying how childish I am (because I won't meet her demands) and that her daughter was flying in and she was going to invite me for dinner but now will not be doing that. She then said she won't be chasing me anymore. (twice she texted and she's already exhausted .... and I should be so lucky
I have not responded and do not intend to respond. I do not want her behavior in my life. It's sad she won't change, but on the bright side...
Since I wrote the original post, I've been in touch with old friends and also made some nice new acquaintances who are warm, funny, responsive, responsible, caring, respectful...