Hi Y'all,

I borrowed the title off of another member...

My own take was a little boat sailing out into the surf. What I didn't say was that my sister and two brothers were on the boat with crowbars- ramming holes in the bottom.

Or that is how it feels like to me. Not only am I affected, but I am surrounded with damaged people.

This came to the surface at my step-father's funeral on Monday. Two brothers got up to speak- asked up by oldest stepbrother- and they spoke on behalf of mother, sister in Australia, and themselves. But I was not allowed to get up and pay my respects. After they finished I got up and walked out of the room.

So gutted.

(((((David)))))  I feel for you on this...been there and kinda sorta done that myself.  Since I bring my own roar or used to I was refused and still fulfilled the roar.  The last time at my Mother's funeral the response from my brothers was "I didn't know you knew Mom that well".  I believe with the "Courage to change the things I can".  So there. ((((Hugs)))) 

OK...Round 2 David... I hear you. My mantra run toward the roar, doesn't mean others will not be obstacles, a hinderance, or whatever else is going on. If siblings are taking crowbars to your boat...in whatever form and fashion that is going on...what can you do? For you? When surrounded by damaged people -- I look to the basics -- acceptance. OK, got it. Surrender, OK, check. Letting go, got that covered. All of those things, and our program, have to do with me. People don't like looking at themselves, taking ownership, etc. -- and just one of the reasons is because then, they may have to do something. Is there something, or some things, you have to do with these relationships? Re-frame them? Define and manage them in a new or different context? Some people just spew out "boundaries" and think that's the answer. And, most people get it wrong. Boundaries are not the end all cure all to a relationship, dialog, communication, etc. Boundaries are an "advanced" topic so to speak...Oh, I established my boundary, and I enforced it, I honor it...but so and so is still punching me in the face every single day. Great. How's that working for you.

If you are surrounded by damaged people -- what can you do? In my experience, I've learned that rarely is the answer nothing. For me, my sister is a damaged person. My ex as well. My father also. While it's not pure sualanon -- oh yeah, that's right, we are not a conference approved forum, lol, so we are allowed to refer to non-alanon literature, material, etc. -- in my advanced adult work and education, professionally, and more, what I've learned is that one can re-frame a relationship with anyone. Sure, it's different if you live in the same house, but even with parent/child, it is common and can be very healthy and rewarding...when done properly, efficiently, effectively, etc.

While I live alone, I've had to spend time re-framing my relationship with my sister and my father. I've defined them differently, in a way that is healthy for me, and not a threat to my well-being. I've managed them differently, with different content and inside a different context. Sure, sometimes the other person is not happy, but what else is new!!! It is no different than the alcoholic being mad at you for whatever reason!!! People throw around words like re-framing, and defining, but they are far more than words. There is a process to it. No different than alanon and recovery. Re-framing a relationship is not only a process, but it starts with outside the relationship, and acknowledging that the relationship is "broken" and needs "repairing" -- and that acknowledgment is about you and from you. Not the other person. Once one is in a place where taking action is the only choice -- then the process can begin. Re-framing relationships is very powerful, and very empowering. While the mourning and grieving is ongoing, it has finite life. And, you don't have to do it with them.

The funeral is one day, one moment in time. While you were not allowed to get up, speak, etc. -- you can pay your respects your way. In a way that is meaningful and important to you. Forget about them. Remember, you are surrounded by damaged people!!! And you are not one, nor do you want to become one! It's over. Mourn now. Grieve. Pay your respects with honor, dignity, and class. That is who you are!!! And remember, that is who you are being when nobody's looking!!!

Don't let these damaged people sink your boat! LOL. Even if you lean into your program -- acceptance, surrender, letting go, detachment, boundaries, all of that is for YOU. Remember, this is about YOU...and for YOU.

 Thanks Jerry and Bo... Kia miharo...

Bo... all the time you are asking "what goes" around here- like what are the boundaries?

I act and believe like we are Alanon affiliated. But also I have seen some Alanon which is rigid, restricted and very doctrinaire.

I don't believe that 'anything goes". However it scares me that i might get zapped here- for saying the wrong thing- or saying something the wrong way...

But that is the story of my life [as Shakespeare said} in a nutshell. I took a slight risk taking one or your lines- and running with it. ...

but I have not been blasted off of the face of the planet by a sherman tank. Au contraire- more the opposite it seems...  ...

David, I don't know what you are referring to when you say all the time me asking "what goes" around here. Sorry, I don't understand. Nor do I understand your question about "like what are the boundaries?" I apologize that I don't clearly understand what you are trying to say.

I can't speak to what anyone else sees or feels in and about alanon. If you have seen rigidity, restrictions, and the like -- OK. I can't argue about what you see or feel. There's no right or wrong. You see it, you feel it. OK, I got it. Personally, I feel alanon -- as a program and the meetings I attend -- is a warm and welcoming place. But, that's alanon -- conference approved alanon meetings, where they follow the principles of the program. I've come across some people who "run" the meeting and it feels rigid -- but that's the person, not the program. I like that alanon has principles. I like that it has structure. I like that anywhere in the country I go to a meeting, it follows a guideline, a format, etc. Sure, it's different, the content might be different...but the context is the same. That's my feeling. It is a "program" that has universal aspects and elements. I also feel with alanon -- you get out of it what you put into it -- not you get out of it based upon how desperate you are, but what you really put into it. But, we all see and feel differently. There is also take what you like and leave the rest. I don't think anything goes either, although I don't know exactly what you mean on this either.

Personally, I don't' see anything wrong with what you are saying, or how you are saying it; and again I apologize for not clearly understanding your what you are saying. And, on that note, I admire and respect -- and thank you -- for taking my mantra and running with it. I think that's great! Who cares what anyone else thinks, LOL. I liked your portrayal of what run toward the roar means to you. Run toward the roar -- I speak to it often, as it relates to self. Not conflict with another. Self. Fear. Discomfort. All the things I've said before. Thanks again David.

  Thanks Bo... I came into Alanon as an adult child... it's not that I don't have any boundaries- I have lots... idea is- that in the formation of my personality my boundaries were assaulted by my carers... and it was the addiction talking- not them really...

...I had to try and second guess everything and everybody- or so it seemed- and that naturally screwed my head.

I have actually seen a person kicked out of a meeting- for mentioning codependency. Being kicked- "my way, or the doorway" is the story of my life. And that happening to me would seem like death- truly.

That would not happen here- in this group... if something was out of kilter someone would pm me and explain.

So I think "boundaries is okay to talk about in Alanon anywhere- because it is now a part of the lexicon.

I am not angry about Alanon. I am angry about everything- and Alanon sometimes gets in the way.

But Alanon is a place there my fixer can get fixed... because we all know what this is like- one way or another... bin there, done that.  ...

Thanks David. I just can't imagine someone being kicked out of (an alanon?) meeting for mentioning co-dependency. It is common for that to be part of "our" sickness in alanon. Co-dependency is real, and can be decimating. It's a common ingredient in the recipe of sickness, disease, what we have and have to deal with. I've seen people cross-talk in meetings, bring AA into the discussion, other fellowships, etc. -- but no one kicked out for doing that.

Now, I've seen people get kicked out of meetings -- for being belligerent, disruptive, offensive, threatening, etc. That too, was about the person, not the program. I've been going to meetings a long time, so I've seen a lot, LOL. I can't really speak to what happens here -- and after the last discussion about the webmaster, the process for bringing up other issues, etc. -- I have no interest in doing so. Yes, I am sure that no one would get kicked out for mentioning co-dependency, because I've seen it mentioned numerous times, I've mentioned it myself numerous times, and I am unaware of anyone being kicked out, and I didn't get kicked out, LOL. So, I share. I share my experience, strength, and hope.

I am glad you embrace and welcome alanon into and as part of your life. The answers, the solutions, are all there, inside the rooms of alanon.

(((((((((///David)))))))))''

So sorry you experienced that. You are a gentle man. And it is a shock when people act outrageously. It can throw us back into the dysfunction of years long past.

Husband's mother's family used to have verbal fights after family funerals. The survivors would decide that somebody had drugged the deceased and conned him into leaving all his money to whomever--doctors and nurses included in the plotting. they were usually much more sane than that. It was the way they grieved, I supposed. I was relieved when mother-in-law outlived the rest of them. I'd never attended these nightmare rituals but could not have avoided her funeral.

And I am sorry for your loss.

You will think and feel your way through this. You have decades of healing and are so very wise. And kind. And gifted. It is good that you get to be out of doors; Nature is very healing.

PM me if you want links to places I find relief when I am vibrating like a rung bell. That is the only thing I have to offer. You know much more about this living life and navigating thing than I do. I am so much a cody, but I am also getting help with that from a couple of authors--one who wasn't in the recovery business, as such.

Bless you!

Temple

(((David))) - to your original message, I can feel your pain and I am so sorry that this happened. I am the youngest and the only daughter so I have been the 'baby' always and continue to be so - while I am now in my 50's. I can tell you the perpetual snubbing, belittling and all that comes with being the youngest and only daughter ate my lunch for a long, long, long while.

This probably contributed to my distorted thinking as much as living with the disease. Of course, it's all a part of the disease - my parents both had fathers who were alcoholic and their experiences were vastly different. Yet - I can see the generational patterns of the disease and as Jerry suggests, use the Serenity Prayer and program to focus on what I can change while accepting what I can not.

I recall a moment when many things shifted for me.....the entire family was here at my home for my parents 50th wedding anniversary. That meant my brothers + wives + kids + my own family. I had 17 people here for the better part of the week. I was stressed trying to be the best hostess and considering the disease and dynamics, everything really, really went well.

As kids, we were taught/trained to compete/compare for EVERYTHING. Success was defined by income, job title, bank account, house size, etc. - all superficial, materialistic 'things'. By the grace of God and the gift of recovery, I knew by then success for me had nothing to do with all that - success was unconditional love, unconditional acceptance and consistent kindness to all persons - no matter who they are or where they're from.

My brothers were all 'beating their chests' talking about their jobs, income, importance, etc. and openly shared their salaries, bonuses, etc. I was just cleaning the kitchen with a huge smile and stayed completely silent/detached as I knew in that moment that all the chest-beating in the world showed me that each had pain just like me.  At the time, I was earning more than all of them yet found no need to say so as my motive would have been self-serving.

Each of them privately thanked me for the hospitality, and each suggested they would not have the room to host the whole family. I honestly hadn't even thought about it - where I live, housing is more affordable and we have 3 levels, 5 Bedrooms, 2 family rooms and 4 garages. It's just customary for the area yet it did serve as a great place for the whole famn damily.

I've been set aside for many funerals and weddings over the years. I always just assumed it was due to the birth order and the only gal but who knows. I honestly have earned the black sheep of the family award from my choices while active in alcoholism and for many in my family, I still am.

But recovery has gifted me with believing the only ones I need to truly honor are self and HP. For all others, I no longer give away any power for I am an equal and I go out of my way to avoid crazy/controlling - that's what I consider as running toward the roar and how I used to be.

Again, the middle of the boat is my preferred place. I value you, I loved how you shared about your step-father and I'm grateful you're a part of my journey.

My main meeting here does prefer we stick to Al-Anon literature, topics, etc. ACoA and AA and others are considered outside topics as is religion, politics, therapy, etc. We never boot anyone for anything like that but we will suggest a return to the topic while offering a one-on-one if someone is in crisis. My other meeting locations are more relaxed and one is actually a mixed meeting for members of both AA & Al-Anon.

I do not claim a home group as I love all that I attend equally and provide service as well. Take good care of you - and remember always that who you really are is a product of a creator who knows what he/she is doing!!  Keep doing you - it looks great on you!

I ran toward the road last night...I try and live this way so that this is what I do, this is who I am... I've been in a relationship with a woman...relatively new, early on, etc. After 2 months, she admits she has a pending DWI court day coming up. I am guessing at a certain point she would have to tell me because she will be losing her license, and it's hard to hide that fact, LOL. However, two other incidents now potentially appear a bit differently to me. Side note -- the DWI -- she was found passed out, behind the wheel of her car, motor running, car in park, emergency brake on. She blew a .22 on the breathalyzer. OK, but the two other incidents where she appeared to be out of it, now are shed in a slightly different light, potentially. Regardless, things had not been working out. Communication has broken down, making plans has become difficult, motivation perhaps too. I don't know.

What I do know is that I was not happy, and this wasn't working for me. Period. I wasn't feeling a connection, that we were connected, as a couple, that we could have meaningful, connected, substantial discussions and conversations -- other than "how was work today" LOL -- and that our lives just weren't progressing together, as a couple. Over time, the recent several weeks, it -- the relationship -- ran its course so to speak. We had talked about this prior, we had tried, made efforts. She works at night, on the weekends, I own a business and sometimes meet with clients for dinner, in the evenings, etc., so there was the feasibility and practical application of everything. Whatever it was -- it wasn't working. And that's OK. She didn't want to end it. But, it had to end. I had to do it. We both deserve something excellent in our lives. So, I did it. Last night, after one of the weekly alanon meetings I attend. I framed it without pointing any fingers. Not even for a moment. No blame. Not her or my "fault" -- but more just circumstantial, and "not feeling" connected. The dynamic developed over time, and exacerbated over the last several weeks. I must have done a great job, LOL, because she agreed! LOL. She still said she didn't want to end it, but she understood my position and what I wanted, for me. She did point a couple of fingers, but I didn't allow it to manifest, and I didn't allow her to compound it. I simply interjected when she was done, I don't feel it's about what you did or what I did, and it's not about blame, it more is just the dynamic that developed over time.

I ended this relationship and did this because my actions HAD TO BE in alignment, and congruent with my mind, my heart, and my spirit. I knew what was the right thing for me. I knew what was best for me. I knew what was healthy for me. It was uncomfortable. I didn't "want" to have to do it, or do it at all, but I had to. We have to make the right decision...not the popular one. We have to do the right thing...not the easy or popular thing. Run Toward The Roar.