VENT ! My 13 yr old son ..... is going back to his bad habits ! His dad, my exH, got out of prison about 4 months ago. And the poo hits the fan on a regular basis again now. I'm all about letting my exH live his life and staying out of his. I am fortunate to have supervised visitation and even tho he says and does stupid things around my son, I stay in my own yard about it. My EX mother in law is the supervisor and she is an enabler deluxe, so that situation will not change as they are happy needing and caring for each other in their own way. So they rarely get reactions from me. I get angry that they fill the kid with bs. I'm starting to see some old behaviour problems with my son again... THIS IS MY CONCERN. He is getting the "everyone owes me" and the whole "Ill say the right thing, but do what I want" attitude. I have tried to teach him better !!!!! UUUGGGHHHH
Freetime said
Sep 11, 2018
{{sweeetr}} I feel for you and your son. The effects of this disease are hard on everyone. Kids express their feelings in ways we might not like. My experience with my kids was I couldn't resolve all their issues myself, as much as I wanted to.
Are Alateen meetings available where you live? Can you find free or low-cost counseling for him (and/or for you?) I know it is hard to be understanding of our kids' pain when we are going through our own pain. I hope you can find him some support so he understands why he feels bad and healthy ways to feel better.
canadianguy said
Sep 12, 2018
Ughhh is right, and that is a tough one...
All that comes to mind is that, over time, your son will watch both of you fairly closely, and if you are making good life & personal choices, and genuinely happy - he WILL see and model that.... He is 13, but old enough to see some of the same things in his Father that you see - the manipulation, bs, etc.... I wish there was a more magical pill answer, but unfortunately there probably is not.... If you are happy and healthy, it will go a long way for both yourself AND your son.
Take care,
Tom
SerenityRUS said
Sep 12, 2018
oh goodness I relate in ways that boggle the mind.
It was literally affecting my overall health and I had to decide to be ok with the fact my son was going to make mistakes (both my kids) find the best way to allow the lesson to play out and stay as much out of the immediate consequences as possible. Meaning they have to come to me and talk about what's going on and they know I'm available.
My son believes at 14 he's a grown adult .. his maturity level is that of a grown adult and he knows best .. He's had a couple of shocks and is on a warning at the moment of further consequences at home to come if he doesn't stop .. lol. Missed bus and a detour that left him confused that schools have rules about being IN school not at his old school. Go figure .. lol.
For both the kids boundaries and natural consequences really help a great deal .. I am grateful I don't have to deal with the Ex stuff .. mine is out of the picture far more than he is in it. I try to listen I remember being that age and soooo angry .. he was such a happy little guy .. hormones are the devil in teenagers .. lol.
He's also had a couple of light bulb moments about some things and is seeing that sometimes things don't go as planned if you don't plan. It really boils down to life experience and lack of it.
I have said my kids seem to believe anyone over the age of 40 is old and dumb .. and I miss the days that I was young and smarter than everyone else around me .. lol .. especially when the kids come back and say .. so .. about that blah blah .. yah .. I see where you are coming from .. hmmm .. ok. Thanks for letting me know.
Hang tough mama .. I had to really focus on not taking what my kids did or said (do or say) personally because the rational thought process does return even if in the moment they are suffering from teenager brain damage because of lack of life experience.
Big hugs .. working my program with my kids keeps everyone sane even if I find myself in the closet crying from time to time .. it's going to workout.
S :)
bud said
Sep 12, 2018
(((Sweetr)))
Ha! Those deluxe enablers love that term I used to be super duper deluxe, I'm sure. I can so relate to your post on many levels and had a deluxe MIL enabler that just made things worse, despite her wanting better.
I could not change her and I could not change him.
And my daughter was so young, but aware.
ODAT. Baby steps and a lot of consistency and support to help my daughter through some dark muck. It's not easy. I stayed on offering corrections (AKA boundaries) when needed, did my best to role model behaviors and get her and myself support when needed. I don't know how, but must be G-d's grace that things have worked out well. She's now almost 30 years old and we enjoy a close relationship and I'm so proud of who she is and has become. Hang in there!
Bo said
Sep 13, 2018
Excellent thread. I dealt with supervised visitation, and luckily, it's an ongoing process, it's fluid. Thus, I can act and react accordingly. In NY, where I've handled cases professionally, and in NJ where I had my own case and handled even more -- and it is very common to have the parent(s) of a spouse as one of the approved supervisors.
Anyway, my focus always was -- it is about the kids. It doesn't matter whether I like it or not. It is -- whether it be court ordered, mediation ordered, whatever. Even when the other person is so unhealthy that it can be to the detriment of the kids -- we do what we do. We do the next right thing in front of us.
Thanks again for the thread.
Jozie said
Sep 13, 2018
(((Sweeetr)))
Me Being a Child of an Alcoholic Father that was Never Around for this Reason or Another (Mainly his Many Addictions) ... I Know the Feelings Your Child is Coming from, and I too thought My Parents & the World Owed Me when they Split, but I Can say FOR ME, I didn't have Anyone in my "Safe" Zone that I Could Speak to After 13... I Lost my Grandma at 13 and My Parents where to Busy Hating Each other to Try and Work out ANY Kind of Agreement for over a Decade!
So You are Doing Wonderful... Just Being Mindful of What is Going On with your Child, is Way more then My Mom ever had time for... But I Was One of Three...
I guess If Ask What I Would have Liked to have in those Moments? I Would say, Honesty, Compassion, and Also to Be able to Speak Without being Talked Over, I would have Loved for my Mom to ASK With out a Judging Tone or a Tone that Sounded Forced... If I Was Ok? If I Wanted to Talk about What Makes me Feel/Be this Way? And if I Tried to Tell her... Her Listen, (My Mom was Always Somewhere Else) when we "Talked". I never felt Worthy of Her Attention due to it always being so Obvious, (Even tho Now, I know... She was Doing the Best she Could)... I Would have LOVED Consequences, because even if I Would Kick & Scream about it, at Least Someone would have been looking out for me... My Mom Never Put Rules on my Father, Never Spoke a Bad Word about him, and In some things I Grateful she didn't Bash Him, but Also sometimes I wish 'When I Ask her', She was Honest with her answers!
You are Doing the Best you Can, You are Showing up for your Child, You are Watching Him Closely Enough to know He is Struggling and Even tho I'm Sure Hormones/Age is a Part of it... As an ACOA... I'm Grateful for Parents like you...
I Only have One Son, and He is Now 21... I've Learned thru Raising Him, and Being a Member of Al-Anon now for a Single Decade, that there was Times I Have Over Done it, There are Times that My Emotional Issues, Clouded My Parenting Correctly or at least, Better! But the One thing My Son Knows, is... I Am the ONE Person, that Regardless of How Much it Hurts me to Say, or Him to Hear! I Will NEVER Lie to Him, I Will Give him an 'Honest' Answer, even if I have to Walk out of the room till I can find a Way to Word it Better...
Your Son is Lucky to have you Looking out for him, You have No Idea how much your Share Meant to me today, I Needed to Remember some of these things for Myself, And Your Post did that... And always Remember, This too Shall Pass, and Everyday is a Great Day for a Great Day :)
Please Take what you Like and Leave the Rest
Jozie
sweeetr said
Sep 18, 2018
Thank you my friends. all the understanding and well thought words/stories help me know Im not alone. I have my son, with a fantastic therapist. My son has grown up knowing that I cant deal with lies, I lived through to many of lies in my lifetime. And the children I raise (hes the last one at home, others are grown) may have a consequence for a bad choice, even when they tell the truth, but a lie... has NEVER been tolerated. An honest conversation is never punished. They can talk to me about any and everything. Trust me some convo's I didn't want to hear, but I remind myself how thankful I am my kids trust me.
They know I dont lie to them, because of how deeply I dont tolerate lies.
My son saw his therapist recently and he told his therapist .. his dad couldnt work cuz no one will hire someone out of prison and with DWI's ... He was crying a making excuses for his dad. She calmly looked at him and said, he can work, he might not want to work where he can work but there are jobs. She said LOOK AT ME. Im going yo tell you something only my family knows and I trust you to not tell anyone. You trust me and I trust you thats how this works. She said she got a DWI on her 18th bday. She said she was embarrassed and had a lot of consequences . She lost her license and her brother drove her to work her two jobs while she was finishing High School. She did everything they told her to do legally. And then she looked at him and said. I didnt let that define me, I graduated -went to college- got many degrees and worked until I finished all my colleges to help others with their problems. I didnt feel sorry for myself and I didnt have others feel sorry for me. To top it off.... I have never and will never drink and drive again. If I have a glass of wine at home. I stay home. And thats only on special occasions. Theyre no excuses that undo or justify to keep making the same bad choices.... needless to say ....Got his attention !! He still cant believe she can be a "doctor" (therapist) .... He was very impressed.
Yall touched my heart with your replies ... stay safe my friends..
JerryF said
Sep 18, 2018
Sweetr thanks for the Vent especially about your 13yo son. I also was a adolescent therapist in the program...Alateen and in the school systems where I lived and was in program. I have grand memories from working with the young as they taught me so much as I tried so hard to help them. It is how you listen without judgement and with an open mind which our program teach us how to do in spades.
I was raised in the disease and to have any expectations beyond what the family was already getting from my thoughts, feelings and behaviors would be sheer lunacy no matter who was having them. I made insane choices over and over and over again until I found my chair in Al-Anon and claimed it for the duration. My Higher Power is no longer Jerry F so on a daily basis I have, with the help of the program and all of its suggestions and tools.
Keep steering him to those he can talk and listen to and I pray one of those continues to be you. (((((Hugs)))))
el-cee said
Sep 19, 2018
I found using the program in my mothering really helped. So I stopped nagging, I was very guilty of saying things over and over and I was also guilty of big discussions, basically insisting on my will. I learned to say what I mean, mean what I say and not say it mean. I put consequences in place and appropriate ones. Made the rules clear and let go, if the rules were broken I had appropriate consequences like no internet access or something like that. This really helped my relationship with my son, he began learning that I did what I said and that the rules were important because there were consequences each and every time. Maybe a frank and honest conversation about the disease of alcoholism or even better - Alateen if its available.
VENT ! My 13 yr old son ..... is going back to his bad habits ! His dad, my exH, got out of prison about 4 months ago. And the poo hits the fan on a regular basis again now. I'm all about letting my exH live his life and staying out of his. I am fortunate to have supervised visitation and even tho he says and does stupid things around my son, I stay in my own yard about it. My EX mother in law is the supervisor and she is an enabler deluxe, so that situation will not change as they are happy needing and caring for each other in their own way. So they rarely get reactions from me. I get angry that they fill the kid with bs. I'm starting to see some old behaviour problems with my son again... THIS IS MY CONCERN. He is getting the "everyone owes me" and the whole "Ill say the right thing, but do what I want" attitude. I have tried to teach him better !!!!! UUUGGGHHHH
Are Alateen meetings available where you live? Can you find free or low-cost counseling for him (and/or for you?) I know it is hard to be understanding of our kids' pain when we are going through our own pain. I hope you can find him some support so he understands why he feels bad and healthy ways to feel better.
Ughhh is right, and that is a tough one...
All that comes to mind is that, over time, your son will watch both of you fairly closely, and if you are making good life & personal choices, and genuinely happy - he WILL see and model that.... He is 13, but old enough to see some of the same things in his Father that you see - the manipulation, bs, etc.... I wish there was a more magical pill answer, but unfortunately there probably is not.... If you are happy and healthy, it will go a long way for both yourself AND your son.
Take care,
Tom
It was literally affecting my overall health and I had to decide to be ok with the fact my son was going to make mistakes (both my kids) find the best way to allow the lesson to play out and stay as much out of the immediate consequences as possible. Meaning they have to come to me and talk about what's going on and they know I'm available.
My son believes at 14 he's a grown adult .. his maturity level is that of a grown adult and he knows best .. He's had a couple of shocks and is on a warning at the moment of further consequences at home to come if he doesn't stop .. lol. Missed bus and a detour that left him confused that schools have rules about being IN school not at his old school. Go figure .. lol.
For both the kids boundaries and natural consequences really help a great deal .. I am grateful I don't have to deal with the Ex stuff .. mine is out of the picture far more than he is in it. I try to listen I remember being that age and soooo angry .. he was such a happy little guy .. hormones are the devil in teenagers .. lol.
He's also had a couple of light bulb moments about some things and is seeing that sometimes things don't go as planned if you don't plan. It really boils down to life experience and lack of it.
I have said my kids seem to believe anyone over the age of 40 is old and dumb .. and I miss the days that I was young and smarter than everyone else around me .. lol .. especially when the kids come back and say .. so .. about that blah blah .. yah .. I see where you are coming from .. hmmm .. ok. Thanks for letting me know.
Hang tough mama .. I had to really focus on not taking what my kids did or said (do or say) personally because the rational thought process does return even if in the moment they are suffering from teenager brain damage because of lack of life experience.
Big hugs .. working my program with my kids keeps everyone sane even if I find myself in the closet crying from time to time .. it's going to workout.
S :)
Ha! Those deluxe enablers
I could not change her and I could not change him.
And my daughter was so young, but aware.
ODAT. Baby steps and a lot of consistency and support to help my daughter through some dark muck. It's not easy. I stayed on offering corrections (AKA boundaries) when needed, did my best to role model behaviors and get her and myself support when needed. I don't know how, but must be G-d's grace that things have worked out well. She's now almost 30 years old and we enjoy a close relationship and I'm so proud of who she is and has become. Hang in there!
Anyway, my focus always was -- it is about the kids. It doesn't matter whether I like it or not. It is -- whether it be court ordered, mediation ordered, whatever. Even when the other person is so unhealthy that it can be to the detriment of the kids -- we do what we do. We do the next right thing in front of us.
Thanks again for the thread.
Me Being a Child of an Alcoholic Father that was Never Around for this Reason or Another (Mainly his Many Addictions) ... I Know the Feelings Your Child is Coming from, and I too thought My Parents & the World Owed Me when they Split, but I Can say FOR ME, I didn't have Anyone in my "Safe" Zone that I Could Speak to After 13... I Lost my Grandma at 13 and My Parents where to Busy Hating Each other to Try and Work out ANY Kind of Agreement for over a Decade!
So You are Doing Wonderful... Just Being Mindful of What is Going On with your Child, is Way more then My Mom ever had time for... But I Was One of Three...
I guess If Ask What I Would have Liked to have in those Moments? I Would say, Honesty, Compassion, and Also to Be able to Speak Without being Talked Over, I would have Loved for my Mom to ASK With out a Judging Tone or a Tone that Sounded Forced... If I Was Ok? If I Wanted to Talk about What Makes me Feel/Be this Way? And if I Tried to Tell her... Her Listen, (My Mom was Always Somewhere Else) when we "Talked". I never felt Worthy of Her Attention due to it always being so Obvious, (Even tho Now, I know... She was Doing the Best she Could)... I Would have LOVED Consequences, because even if I Would Kick & Scream about it, at Least Someone would have been looking out for me... My Mom Never Put Rules on my Father, Never Spoke a Bad Word about him, and In some things I Grateful she didn't Bash Him, but Also sometimes I wish 'When I Ask her', She was Honest with her answers!
You are Doing the Best you Can, You are Showing up for your Child, You are Watching Him Closely Enough to know He is Struggling and Even tho I'm Sure Hormones/Age is a Part of it... As an ACOA... I'm Grateful for Parents like you...
I Only have One Son, and He is Now 21... I've Learned thru Raising Him, and Being a Member of Al-Anon now for a Single Decade, that there was Times I Have Over Done it, There are Times that My Emotional Issues, Clouded My Parenting Correctly or at least, Better! But the One thing My Son Knows, is... I Am the ONE Person, that Regardless of How Much it Hurts me to Say, or Him to Hear! I Will NEVER Lie to Him, I Will Give him an 'Honest' Answer, even if I have to Walk out of the room till I can find a Way to Word it Better...
Your Son is Lucky to have you Looking out for him, You have No Idea how much your Share Meant to me today, I Needed to Remember some of these things for Myself, And Your Post did that... And always Remember, This too Shall Pass, and Everyday is a Great Day for a Great Day :)
Please Take what you Like and Leave the Rest
Jozie
They know I dont lie to them, because of how deeply I dont tolerate lies.
My son saw his therapist recently and he told his therapist .. his dad couldnt work cuz no one will hire someone out of prison and with DWI's ... He was crying a making excuses for his dad. She calmly looked at him and said, he can work, he might not want to work where he can work but there are jobs. She said LOOK AT ME. Im going yo tell you something only my family knows and I trust you to not tell anyone. You trust me and I trust you thats how this works. She said she got a DWI on her 18th bday. She said she was embarrassed and had a lot of consequences . She lost her license and her brother drove her to work her two jobs while she was finishing High School. She did everything they told her to do legally. And then she looked at him and said. I didnt let that define me, I graduated -went to college- got many degrees and worked until I finished all my colleges to help others with their problems. I didnt feel sorry for myself and I didnt have others feel sorry for me. To top it off.... I have never and will never drink and drive again. If I have a glass of wine at home. I stay home. And thats only on special occasions. Theyre no excuses that undo or justify to keep making the same bad choices.... needless to say ....Got his attention !! He still cant believe she can be a "doctor" (therapist) .... He was very impressed.
Yall touched my heart with your replies ... stay safe my friends..
Sweetr thanks for the Vent especially about your 13yo son. I also was a adolescent therapist in the program...Alateen and in the school systems where I lived and was in program. I have grand memories from working with the young as they taught me so much as I tried so hard to help them. It is how you listen without judgement and with an open mind which our program teach us how to do in spades.
I was raised in the disease and to have any expectations beyond what the family was already getting from my thoughts, feelings and behaviors would be sheer lunacy no matter who was having them. I made insane choices over and over and over again until I found my chair in Al-Anon and claimed it for the duration. My Higher Power is no longer Jerry F so on a daily basis I have, with the help of the program and all of its suggestions and tools.
Keep steering him to those he can talk and listen to and I pray one of those continues to be you. (((((Hugs)))))
I found using the program in my mothering really helped. So I stopped nagging, I was very guilty of saying things over and over and I was also guilty of big discussions, basically insisting on my will. I learned to say what I mean, mean what I say and not say it mean. I put consequences in place and appropriate ones. Made the rules clear and let go, if the rules were broken I had appropriate consequences like no internet access or something like that. This really helped my relationship with my son, he began learning that I did what I said and that the rules were important because there were consequences each and every time. Maybe a frank and honest conversation about the disease of alcoholism or even better - Alateen if its available.