Im a very grateful member of Alanon and I trust this program and everything about it completely and utterly but I heard an interesting take on our program from a friend.
Her sponsor told her that Alanon is no gentle program, not if you want to get well.
Its made me think. On the one hand we who have been affected need time to leave behind our denial and on the other hand to get well we must take the action, do the work.
Maybe its a fine line between easing into the program and then getting started, making the commitment, working the steps, doing service work, helping others etc. A gentle program yes and no.
Any thoughts?
hotrod said
Aug 28, 2018
LC i think the idea that alanon is gentle program stems from the fact that no one will hold a hammer over your head to make you work the steps or attend meetings. We do not give advise and only share our ESH. i find it is a difficult program for complicated people
PosiesandPuppies said
Aug 28, 2018
I do think it is a gentle program... there are no facilities, no one "makes" you attend meetings, but it IS a program where you need to fearlessly look at your own behavior(s). This can seem daunting to some - in fact dare I say all of us at some point in our journeys! But I do understand that sponsor's point... you can ease into it all you want, but at some point you will have to do the "work" to get healthy.
Bo said
Aug 28, 2018
el-cell -- this is a great topic/discussion! Thank you for posting it. I had long wanted to bring up this exact topic here, however, due to the audience and many of the responses I have seen, compounded by many of the alanon principles not being prevalent here -- I decided to punt, LOL.
That said, first, on a surface-level, if we look to the principles of alanon, we have a program that is a welcoming, understanding, and "gentle" place, one that speaks to going gentle unto yourself, being gentle with yourself, and self-care. Alanon speaks to the beginner/newcomer being the most important person in the room, and for good reason. A person in crisis becomes a focal point, and for good reason. I would hope all of us here know the reasons why. Gentle is a compassion, an empathy, an understanding, can offer comfort, support, and more of the "soft-side" emotional aspects. Whether it be physical or emotional, gentle has that "mild" element, whether it be temperamental or behavioral. Gentle comes from a place of being kind, tender, a calmness, perhaps a way of or to pacify.
Now, with all that being said -- if a person is looking for that, alanon can give that. And it will. And the people in alanon should as well. When one seeks out another, whatever they seek, they shall find. If they seek gentle, someone to listen, I for one, hope they find that. However, if a person asks questions, suggestions, guidance, insight, perspective, or something more "active" (active from a psychology perspective), then I hope they find that as well. Why wouldn't we hope that someone finds exactly what they are looking for. You see, in my experience -- the good and the bad of alanon -- is that this program will give you exactly what you are looking for...exactly what you want. Not what you say you want, but what you behavior, mindset, attitude, etc., is congruent with in what you want. What does that mean? I've seen and heard innumerable people walk into meetings, numerous times, crying, in crisis, saying that want nothing else but to "get better" and they are ready to do whatever it takes to get better. And, they are passionate about it. And it might be true, consciously however. On a different level, on another level, their behavior, their decision making, their actions, say something different. Now, of course they are not lying. They perhaps have just not hit their rock bottom. How many times have you done something, said something, that wasn't healthy? If I had a dollar for each time, my net worth would be increased by about a million dollars, LOL. This is where we -- our disease, sickness, whatever you want to call it -- is nothing different than that of the alcoholic, as far as catalyst for desire for recovery. It takes a person to say enough, no more, I do this again, not one more time, it's done, over. Rock bottom.
Pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. However, pain is one of the most powerful motivators that exist. I've long said either you make a conscious decision to change, because you want to, want to get better, etc. -- or you won't, and eventually the pain of whatever you are doing will become so great, and unbearable, that you will have no choice, you will be forced to change.
Be this as it may -- I have a meeting to go, and I will follow up after my meeting on the "gentle" and "getting better elements.
Thank you.
mamalioness said
Aug 28, 2018
hey el-cee thank you for this post.....I think it is BOTH......gentle in that we are not forced to do the steps, et al, but gently told each time, "keep coming back" but its also a hard program IF we are to work it honestly, like the steps....step 4, everyone thinks is so brutal and it CAN be...it WAS for me, but it also showed me the gentle side in that I had that place to list my "assets" as well.....it is simple yet hard....freeing yet its like pulling a tooth....When I walked into the dentist of the 12 steps, My emotional "jaw" was swollen..infected...full of poison and it HURT BIG TIME...so I get into the chair (steps workbooks) and I "get to work" as i shed my bad characteristics like that rotten tooth, I feel a sense of loss (losing the bad tooth/survival skills that now hurt my life), ...so yea, program is gentle in that we are all in the hands of this wonderful program, but it is brutally painful, at times, when step 4 is being worked honestly and yea, it hurts to see how much damage they did....but the GOOD news is that I can overcome..I can retrain me...i can overwrite their lies...but its gonna take work..dedication...perseverance...consistency....
its a GOOD pain...a productive pain....and no, its not gentle at times because tuff love is what gets me off my rear and into the discipline of the program....THIS time pain will produce for me a good result...not just rounds and rounds of the empty, non productive pain I felt in the past
the deeper the pain,the deeper the recovery...I have to GO through it to GET through it...
I hope this post made sense..lousy analogy, but I haven't had my breakfast yet..........
EXCELLENT share, el-cee...nice to see you.....
-- Edited by mamalioness on Tuesday 28th of August 2018 01:00:45 PM
Aloha said
Aug 28, 2018
I've been told that as a sponsor, if you don't piss off your sponsee every now and then, you're not doing your job.
I've pissed off sponsees in the past but not with the goal to upset them but to remove the wool from their eyes around heavy denial on things they wish to see change in their lives.
My sponsor has pissed me off at times, as well. There have been times where I thought her behavior was uncalled for, actually, but there have been many OTHER times where her blunt honesty punched a necessary hole in my ego and got me to see where I needed to do some work.
Changing ourselves is not for the faint of heart. Sponsoring others is not for the faint of heart, either.
Yes, Al-Anon is a gentle program in that you're not getting torn apart every day by your fellow member's words. We all love and support each other, sometimes in spite of our differences. In fact I'd say probably around 99% of the time, we're there for others as loving, caring, listening companions who share our experience, strength, and hope around similar challenges and situations. We lift each other up and give encouragement.
But that other 1% of the time, we make decisions to not do a disservice to others and speak our truths, especially when heavy denial is running rampant.
One thing I am always reminded of however, is that God's got this handled, and that God puts people in our lives to learn from them in one way or another.
I am very grateful this is a gentle program. I'm also grateful for those members who cared enough and were brave enough to speak their truths to me when they saw me floundering and in denial.
mamalioness said
Aug 28, 2018
Aloha, this is so great, you mentioning sponsors....I had one that was too easy on me so I replaced him...got a female that was just right...tough love she gave me, and many times i was pissed at her, but then I would think and 'oh yea, she is right" so yea, in that case program can be gentle with the unconditional and consistent love, but brutal when i don't want to see a truth about me that needs to be addressed.....program is not for the faint hearted as you say, but it is for the heart.....if i want to heal, I have to step up....face me...face the truth...deal with it...accept it and deal....
canadianguy said
Aug 28, 2018
Interesting perspective and post, to be sure...
For my two cents, I have always thought & believed that Al-Anon is, indeed a gentle program.... There are no "bosses", nor any "right or wrong" - just simply a whole lot of empathy, understanding, and support.... I truly love that about our program - we are given tools, gentle reminders (of what may have worked for us), and widespread experience, but the program never "should" anybody. Whenever there is any "shoulding" on anyone, that comes from individuals, and not the program itself....
Copying an old post of mine, from 2013, as this question brought back that memory for me.
Thanks ((el-cee))) for the topic and your share. I've always liked that Alanon is considered to be a gentle program - a one day at a time program. As a newcomer, I felt very frustrated when comparing my recovery to that of others who had been around longer. I can think of so many things we say in the program that are reflective of the gentle philosophy. Progress not perfection, easy does it, one day at a time all speak to being works in progress in this program and a lifetime recovery journey.
I was pretty lazy about working the steps formally when I got here. I enjoyed step meetings, the CAL readings and somehow through the years I worked all of the Alanon steps. I worked a few with Alanon sponsors and others on my own. I also did service in and out of the program. Risking to put into action some life changes and try out some new healthier behaviors, I progressed even with working what some might feel was a lopsided program. My higher power was with me and sponsors as well as other trusted friends through the years. Everything in Alanon is merely suggested. I've always liked that about the program. It's a should"less" program.
It isn't difficult for me to welcome and accept newcomers who are in the throes of enabling and accepting what today would be unacceptable to me. That was who I was too. At meetings I was just told keep coming back. Nobody chastised me for continuing behaviors that were painful. Of course And it was a gift to be able to come to Alanon meetings free of shame because members had lived it themselves and understood.
I think for me, continuing to show up has done the most for my own growth in the program. I especially credit this site, it message board and it's meetings. It's opened my mind to so many perspectives from around the world on Alanon topics I would have otherwise not experienced as well as and how to apply the program to real life situations. Best of all it's available 24/7. It also allows me to carry the message which is a wonderful gift.
So yes, I think it's definitely a gentle program.. a take what you like and leave the rest program because despite sharing similiarities, each of our lives is unique to our own life experiences and that makes how we work the program very individualized.
El-cee, I appreciate that you post these wonderful topics for us to think about. I'm grateful you choose to keep coming back to share here. TT
Iamhere said
Aug 28, 2018
Great topic El-cee and lovely discussion. I do know that when I arrived, if someone had said, "That's all well and good, but if you want to get better, you NEED TO.........................................................
I would have either bounced to never return (the denial and defiant me) or I would have tried to be the 'perfect alanoner' and given up when I felt I wasn't progressing fast enough or that I had failed. These were my MO before recovery - Black/White....Right/Wrong.....All/No Effort - I had no shades of gray!
For me, it's gentle because we each get to move forward as we see fit, when we are ready and in any time frame desired. I know people who only attended meetings for years, and didn't even get near the steps until well beyond year 5-10. I also know others who dove right in, completed all 12 Steps in short order and appear as crazy today as they first arrived.
What makes it gentle is we are to only share ESH and not pressure anyone to do it our way, faster than they are able/willing, etc. We encourage, we share and we support - and that's it. Most that I now who truly 'get it' are ones who just kept coming back and kept putting forth effort to align with the program as best they could. There's no gold star for completing the steps nor redoing the steps, etc.
My own experience is that this recovery program is no different than most other facets of life - there is a huge return on my level of effort/investment. If I back off daily readings, prayer, etc. I see a direct correlation to my level of acceptance and serenity. When I maintain structure and ensure daily program efforts, I'm much more prepared spiritually and emotionally for what 'life brings'. I also believe my HP leads me where I need to be and lays in front of me what's necessary for me to be the best version of me - case in point...my mother is nearing the end of her life as well as a dear friend and also a close cousin. While I am sad and have fear about these coming experiences, I am able to stay grounded in the here/now, keep being of service and keep doing me/my thing. Without the effort I've put in, one of these might put me into great anxiety with the risk of panic attacks returning. That's not happened as I'm managing 'my disease' with this program and all the tools.
So - I do the best I can to live, breath, speak and embrace all the steps, principles, traditions, etc. in all facets of my life. I stay true to this program at the grocery store, the post office, the ball fields, the golf course, etc. I embrace life and love as best I can unconditionally and without expectations. And, all of this would not be possible if this program were not gentle, allowing me to experience it as my HP wanted it to unfold.
I'm a huge believer that you can't see the forest for the trees and personal accountability and responsibility is what clears the way! For the record, my sponsor has also irritated me and I've irritated sponsees. It's par for the course when you are building a deep relationship based on total honesty....my sponsor is very gentle yet has called me out before and I do what I can to mirror her style - simply because I have a profound and deep level of respect that she was able to lead me from the darkness I lived in to the light.
Great topic - thanks for bringing it here!
serenity47 said
Aug 28, 2018
Yes, such a great topic. For me, it does seem very gentle program which is exactly what I needed because god forbid someone told me what I had to do! Instead, I have been allowed to tread as lightly as I choose and do not feel guilty for doing it exactly the right way as that doesn't exist.
That being said, I get out of it what I am willing to put in to it just like everything else in life so.... if I continue to whine and complain and remain unwilling to make a change, I welcome the tough love part to perhaps propel me into action. I may not like it initially but I will learn to appreciate it later. Its really all up to me.
-- Edited by serenity47 on Tuesday 28th of August 2018 05:43:36 PM
Bo said
Aug 28, 2018
To follow up on my previous post -- the gentle aspect of alanon is prevalent. There is no doubt that alanon is a gentle program -- and all of the things I said above, is my experience and my perspective that I've found over my personal and professional life, recovery, etc.
In any "self-help" or "self-improvement -- any advanced education work that one does -- gentle and the other side of the proverbial coin so to speak is separate and distinct. Most people I've found don't understand that. It is a question about self -- not what one person tells, shares, shows, etc., to another. That has nothing to do with it. In my experience the people who if someone else got pushed, prodded, or someone else was going to push or prodme -- and say that would not have worked with me -- those are the people who don't get it. It's not about someone else. It's about YOU.
It is up to the person as to what they do or don't want to do. Period. Bringing up the other person aspect is, to me, a cop out. It allows one to not look at themselves.
Gentle is what alanon is about. However, seperate and disticnt from that is -- a person getting better, getting better, finding recovery, etc. -- involves change. It may be major change or minor, the latter being a change in thinking, which one may find easy. Gentle in the program is about YOU going gentle unto YOU. If you have a sponsor who muscles you, that's your problem. Get a new sponsor. But if that's what you need, then what are they pushing? Change.
Change can be easy, or can be hard. It can be an extreme of either -- and that is up to YOU -- not the person guiding you, not a sponsor, etc. However, change of any type brings about certain elements -- new, discomfort, alternative thinking, action steps, perhaps pain, pressure or opposition from others, and so on. That is not easy. I've seen people make slight, easy change, and they got better. But for many, who are "in it" and in crisis, have a variety of issues that they need to get a handle on -- change can be uncomfortable. Saying no can be uncomcfortable. And, that's when progress begins. Many people don't see that. Make change in how you deal with, live with, etc., an alcoholic -- and it can't be easy as there is another person, opposing what you are doing. You are detaching, you are no longer enabling, etc. -- do you think the alcoholic is going to be thrilled about this? No way. Thus, as soon as the person feels discomfort, pressure, anger, and all the things we face -- anger, guilt, manipulation, sadness, threats, begging, pleading, etc. -- many people cave in. Pushing through that is where living begins. It is where you take your life back. It is where recovery begins. The majority of recovery starts out on a road that is not easy to go down -- because it is uncomfortable.
Obviously each person chooses how and when they want to get better, make progress, make change. However, the potential of we can get back -- comes with a price. It comes with effort. It is not easy. It is not supposed to be easy -- because what we are gaining is so great.
My perspective is I want to hear what someone thinks. I want to hear their bottom line, no BS, hard core experience, wisdom, and what their thinking is. It is up to ME if I want to do that or not. It is up to ME as to whatever I do or don't do. If that's the crux of your argument -- then that's simply saying today is Tuesday. Factually correct, but of no help.
If a person doesn't make effort, doesn't make change, etc. -- then, I think, depdending on their circumstances, in all likeligood, no, the miracle won't occur. They will not get better. Or they will vis a vis denial. If that's OK for you, that's fine. But one can't say why am I am not getting better if one is not taking action and making change. I've long said -- you don't get better by going to meetings. You get better by going to meetings, learning, AND THEN TAKING ACTION AND MAKING CHANGE. Knowing the alanon program is the first hurdle. Understand the mindset, the philosophy, the methodology in and around that root knowledge is important as well. That's the second hurdle. Lastly -- it takes action. It is some action. Changing the way you react is action. It is change. Changing your thinking is an action, it is change. That takes YOU doing something. The program doesn't do it for you.
My sponsor is the most gentle, caring, warm, loving individual I've ever met. Yet, he can add accountability and objectivity to the mix as well as anyone. Does that make him not gentle? No. People who don't want to do what it takes to get better sometimes think so. He has said things to me -- when being objective and holding me accountable, some may say "calling me out" so to speak -- that have been not what I wanted to hear. They have sometimes hurt -- only because sometimes the truth hurts. Sometimes it has to hurt. Does that make him not gentle? When the doctor tells you that you are dying, does that make him not gentle? Well, he can do it in a caring, gentle, kind, compassion way...or not. Being the delivery person of something someone doesn't want to hear can be done in a gentle way...but sometimes you need to say it like it is. And it it not being or coming from a place of "not gentle" -- it is coming from a very different place, even though it might be blunt.
Bo said
Aug 28, 2018
If you want to get better, get healthy, get well, whatever you want to call it...there is going to be some discomfort, some anxiety, perhaps some embarrassment, perturbation, some unease, angst, some awkwardness, perhaps discomposure, maybe some confusion and conflict, some distress, and perhaps some pain...but that has nothing to do with the program being gentle or another person being gentle. The two can be mutually exclusive. The skill, the gift, is in finding how to have the latter ease the former.
mamalioness said
Aug 28, 2018
WOW!!! Bo!!! Loved your share and yea, I have to go through it to get through it........the deeper the pain, the deeper the recovery and that involves more pain, but productive pain....not the hollow, non productive pain in the pat....the program itself is of love, compassion, acceptance, unconditionally accepting others, self love, discovery of the truth, perhaps for the first time, etc., so yea, I 1000% agree with what you said above......Great points....
Bo said
Aug 28, 2018
Pain is inevitable...but suffering is optional.
You can't go around it...you can't go under it...and you can't go over it...you have to go through it.
Bo said
Aug 28, 2018
And, thanks Rose.
Bo said
Aug 31, 2018
We were talking about this last night at one of the meetings I attend regularly. One guy interjected and said alanon is without question, absolutely, a very gentle, warm, welcoming, and safe place, program. I agreed. When a newcomer comes into the room, the focus is always turned on them. Here, in this forum, while there may not be formal guidelines, and the principles of the program are not incorporated formally -- the same things exists. However, being that this is a dead medium, it is absent of all inflection, tone, nuance, and everything else that goes along with that.
It is also style. Some people express themselves very well in the eyes of others. Other people don't. Some are verbose, and some are succinct. A dead medium compounds much of that. Are there mean people here? Nasty people? Angry people? Bitter? Scorned? Tall? Short? And so on? I think so, but that is irrelevant. What is tantamount -- is that -- alanon is a gentle program.
From the self perspective -- getting better means something. If you are not healthy, not well, etc. -- then getting better will always involve change. It will involve doing something that is not part of what's become your "norm" so to speak. Change, making change, all that goes along with it, can be -- uncomfortable, difficult, painful, not easy, can cause anxiety, angst, anger, sadness, it can and probably will have reactions, comments, thoughts, etc., from others...all of that. Yes, when you make change, when you feel uncomfortable...that's when you start getting better.
It was a great conversation to have last night, and for those of you who go to meetings, it might be worthwhile chatting about it. It was very interesting, thought provoking, and hearing others' perspective was excellent.
Im a very grateful member of Alanon and I trust this program and everything about it completely and utterly but I heard an interesting take on our program from a friend.
Her sponsor told her that Alanon is no gentle program, not if you want to get well.
Its made me think. On the one hand we who have been affected need time to leave behind our denial and on the other hand to get well we must take the action, do the work.
Maybe its a fine line between easing into the program and then getting started, making the commitment, working the steps, doing service work, helping others etc. A gentle program yes and no.
Any thoughts?
LC i think the idea that alanon is gentle program stems from the fact that no one will hold a hammer over your head to make you work the steps or attend meetings. We do not give advise and only share our ESH.
i find it is a difficult program for complicated people
That said, first, on a surface-level, if we look to the principles of alanon, we have a program that is a welcoming, understanding, and "gentle" place, one that speaks to going gentle unto yourself, being gentle with yourself, and self-care. Alanon speaks to the beginner/newcomer being the most important person in the room, and for good reason. A person in crisis becomes a focal point, and for good reason. I would hope all of us here know the reasons why. Gentle is a compassion, an empathy, an understanding, can offer comfort, support, and more of the "soft-side" emotional aspects. Whether it be physical or emotional, gentle has that "mild" element, whether it be temperamental or behavioral. Gentle comes from a place of being kind, tender, a calmness, perhaps a way of or to pacify.
Now, with all that being said -- if a person is looking for that, alanon can give that. And it will. And the people in alanon should as well. When one seeks out another, whatever they seek, they shall find. If they seek gentle, someone to listen, I for one, hope they find that. However, if a person asks questions, suggestions, guidance, insight, perspective, or something more "active" (active from a psychology perspective), then I hope they find that as well. Why wouldn't we hope that someone finds exactly what they are looking for. You see, in my experience -- the good and the bad of alanon -- is that this program will give you exactly what you are looking for...exactly what you want. Not what you say you want, but what you behavior, mindset, attitude, etc., is congruent with in what you want. What does that mean? I've seen and heard innumerable people walk into meetings, numerous times, crying, in crisis, saying that want nothing else but to "get better" and they are ready to do whatever it takes to get better. And, they are passionate about it. And it might be true, consciously however. On a different level, on another level, their behavior, their decision making, their actions, say something different. Now, of course they are not lying. They perhaps have just not hit their rock bottom. How many times have you done something, said something, that wasn't healthy? If I had a dollar for each time, my net worth would be increased by about a million dollars, LOL. This is where we -- our disease, sickness, whatever you want to call it -- is nothing different than that of the alcoholic, as far as catalyst for desire for recovery. It takes a person to say enough, no more, I do this again, not one more time, it's done, over. Rock bottom.
Pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. However, pain is one of the most powerful motivators that exist. I've long said either you make a conscious decision to change, because you want to, want to get better, etc. -- or you won't, and eventually the pain of whatever you are doing will become so great, and unbearable, that you will have no choice, you will be forced to change.
Be this as it may -- I have a meeting to go, and I will follow up after my meeting on the "gentle" and "getting better elements.
Thank you.
hey el-cee thank you for this post.....I think it is BOTH......gentle in that we are not forced to do the steps, et al, but gently told each time, "keep coming back" but its also a hard program IF we are to work it honestly, like the steps....step 4, everyone thinks is so brutal and it CAN be...it WAS for me, but it also showed me the gentle side in that I had that place to list my "assets" as well.....it is simple yet hard....freeing yet its like pulling a tooth....When I walked into the dentist of the 12 steps, My emotional "jaw" was swollen..infected...full of poison and it HURT BIG TIME...so I get into the chair (steps workbooks) and I "get to work" as i shed my bad characteristics like that rotten tooth, I feel a sense of loss (losing the bad tooth/survival skills that now hurt my life), ...so yea, program is gentle in that we are all in the hands of this wonderful program, but it is brutally painful, at times, when step 4 is being worked honestly and yea, it hurts to see how much damage they did....but the GOOD news is that I can overcome..I can retrain me...i can overwrite their lies...but its gonna take work..dedication...perseverance...consistency....
its a GOOD pain...a productive pain....and no, its not gentle at times because tuff love is what gets me off my rear and into the discipline of the program....THIS time pain will produce for me a good result...not just rounds and rounds of the empty, non productive pain I felt in the past
the deeper the pain,the deeper the recovery...I have to GO through it to GET through it...
I hope this post made sense..lousy analogy, but I haven't had my breakfast yet..........
EXCELLENT share, el-cee...nice to see you.....
-- Edited by mamalioness on Tuesday 28th of August 2018 01:00:45 PM
I've pissed off sponsees in the past but not with the goal to upset them but to remove the wool from their eyes around heavy denial on things they wish to see change in their lives.
My sponsor has pissed me off at times, as well. There have been times where I thought her behavior was uncalled for, actually, but there have been many OTHER times where her blunt honesty punched a necessary hole in my ego and got me to see where I needed to do some work.
Changing ourselves is not for the faint of heart. Sponsoring others is not for the faint of heart, either.
Yes, Al-Anon is a gentle program in that you're not getting torn apart every day by your fellow member's words. We all love and support each other, sometimes in spite of our differences. In fact I'd say probably around 99% of the time, we're there for others as loving, caring, listening companions who share our experience, strength, and hope around similar challenges and situations. We lift each other up and give encouragement.
But that other 1% of the time, we make decisions to not do a disservice to others and speak our truths, especially when heavy denial is running rampant.
One thing I am always reminded of however, is that God's got this handled, and that God puts people in our lives to learn from them in one way or another.
I am very grateful this is a gentle program. I'm also grateful for those members who cared enough and were brave enough to speak their truths to me when they saw me floundering and in denial.
Interesting perspective and post, to be sure...
For my two cents, I have always thought & believed that Al-Anon is, indeed a gentle program.... There are no "bosses", nor any "right or wrong" - just simply a whole lot of empathy, understanding, and support.... I truly love that about our program - we are given tools, gentle reminders (of what may have worked for us), and widespread experience, but the program never "should" anybody. Whenever there is any "shoulding" on anyone, that comes from individuals, and not the program itself....
Copying an old post of mine, from 2013, as this question brought back that memory for me.
http://alanon.activeboard.com/t52949036/what-is-al-anon-what-is-al-anon-not/
Thanks El-Cee
Tom
Thanks ((el-cee))) for the topic and your share. I've always liked that Alanon is considered to be a gentle program - a one day at a time program. As a newcomer, I felt very frustrated when comparing my recovery to that of others who had been around longer. I can think of so many things we say in the program that are reflective of the gentle philosophy. Progress not perfection, easy does it, one day at a time all speak to being works in progress in this program and a lifetime recovery journey.
I was pretty lazy about working the steps formally when I got here. I enjoyed step meetings, the CAL readings and somehow through the years I worked all of the Alanon steps. I worked a few with Alanon sponsors and others on my own. I also did service in and out of the program. Risking to put into action some life changes and try out some new healthier behaviors, I progressed even with working what some might feel was a lopsided program. My higher power was with me and sponsors as well as other trusted friends through the years. Everything in Alanon is merely suggested. I've always liked that about the program. It's a should"less" program.
It isn't difficult for me to welcome and accept newcomers who are in the throes of enabling and accepting what today would be unacceptable to me. That was who I was too. At meetings I was just told keep coming back. Nobody chastised me for continuing behaviors that were painful. Of course And it was a gift to be able to come to Alanon meetings free of shame because members had lived it themselves and understood.
I think for me, continuing to show up has done the most for my own growth in the program. I especially credit this site, it message board and it's meetings. It's opened my mind to so many perspectives from around the world on Alanon topics I would have otherwise not experienced as well as and how to apply the program to real life situations. Best of all it's available 24/7. It also allows me to carry the message which is a wonderful gift.
So yes, I think it's definitely a gentle program.. a take what you like and leave the rest program because despite sharing similiarities, each of our lives is unique to our own life experiences and that makes how we work the program very individualized.
El-cee, I appreciate that you post these wonderful topics for us to think about. I'm grateful you choose to keep coming back to share here. TT
I would have either bounced to never return (the denial and defiant me) or I would have tried to be the 'perfect alanoner' and given up when I felt I wasn't progressing fast enough or that I had failed. These were my MO before recovery - Black/White....Right/Wrong.....All/No Effort - I had no shades of gray!
For me, it's gentle because we each get to move forward as we see fit, when we are ready and in any time frame desired. I know people who only attended meetings for years, and didn't even get near the steps until well beyond year 5-10. I also know others who dove right in, completed all 12 Steps in short order and appear as crazy today as they first arrived.
What makes it gentle is we are to only share ESH and not pressure anyone to do it our way, faster than they are able/willing, etc. We encourage, we share and we support - and that's it. Most that I now who truly 'get it' are ones who just kept coming back and kept putting forth effort to align with the program as best they could. There's no gold star for completing the steps nor redoing the steps, etc.
My own experience is that this recovery program is no different than most other facets of life - there is a huge return on my level of effort/investment. If I back off daily readings, prayer, etc. I see a direct correlation to my level of acceptance and serenity. When I maintain structure and ensure daily program efforts, I'm much more prepared spiritually and emotionally for what 'life brings'. I also believe my HP leads me where I need to be and lays in front of me what's necessary for me to be the best version of me - case in point...my mother is nearing the end of her life as well as a dear friend and also a close cousin. While I am sad and have fear about these coming experiences, I am able to stay grounded in the here/now, keep being of service and keep doing me/my thing. Without the effort I've put in, one of these might put me into great anxiety with the risk of panic attacks returning. That's not happened as I'm managing 'my disease' with this program and all the tools.
So - I do the best I can to live, breath, speak and embrace all the steps, principles, traditions, etc. in all facets of my life. I stay true to this program at the grocery store, the post office, the ball fields, the golf course, etc. I embrace life and love as best I can unconditionally and without expectations. And, all of this would not be possible if this program were not gentle, allowing me to experience it as my HP wanted it to unfold.
I'm a huge believer that you can't see the forest for the trees and personal accountability and responsibility is what clears the way! For the record, my sponsor has also irritated me and I've irritated sponsees. It's par for the course when you are building a deep relationship based on total honesty....my sponsor is very gentle yet has called me out before and I do what I can to mirror her style - simply because I have a profound and deep level of respect that she was able to lead me from the darkness I lived in to the light.
Great topic - thanks for bringing it here!
Yes, such a great topic. For me, it does seem very gentle program which is exactly what I needed because god forbid someone told me what I had to do! Instead, I have been allowed to tread as lightly as I choose and do not feel guilty for doing it exactly the right way as that doesn't exist.
That being said, I get out of it what I am willing to put in to it just like everything else in life so.... if I continue to whine and complain and remain unwilling to make a change, I welcome the tough love part to perhaps propel me into action. I may not like it initially but I will learn to appreciate it later. Its really all up to me.
-- Edited by serenity47 on Tuesday 28th of August 2018 05:43:36 PM
In any "self-help" or "self-improvement -- any advanced education work that one does -- gentle and the other side of the proverbial coin so to speak is separate and distinct. Most people I've found don't understand that. It is a question about self -- not what one person tells, shares, shows, etc., to another. That has nothing to do with it. In my experience the people who if someone else got pushed, prodded, or someone else was going to push or prodme -- and say that would not have worked with me -- those are the people who don't get it. It's not about someone else. It's about YOU.
It is up to the person as to what they do or don't want to do. Period. Bringing up the other person aspect is, to me, a cop out. It allows one to not look at themselves.
Gentle is what alanon is about. However, seperate and disticnt from that is -- a person getting better, getting better, finding recovery, etc. -- involves change. It may be major change or minor, the latter being a change in thinking, which one may find easy. Gentle in the program is about YOU going gentle unto YOU. If you have a sponsor who muscles you, that's your problem. Get a new sponsor. But if that's what you need, then what are they pushing? Change.
Change can be easy, or can be hard. It can be an extreme of either -- and that is up to YOU -- not the person guiding you, not a sponsor, etc. However, change of any type brings about certain elements -- new, discomfort, alternative thinking, action steps, perhaps pain, pressure or opposition from others, and so on. That is not easy. I've seen people make slight, easy change, and they got better. But for many, who are "in it" and in crisis, have a variety of issues that they need to get a handle on -- change can be uncomfortable. Saying no can be uncomcfortable. And, that's when progress begins. Many people don't see that. Make change in how you deal with, live with, etc., an alcoholic -- and it can't be easy as there is another person, opposing what you are doing. You are detaching, you are no longer enabling, etc. -- do you think the alcoholic is going to be thrilled about this? No way. Thus, as soon as the person feels discomfort, pressure, anger, and all the things we face -- anger, guilt, manipulation, sadness, threats, begging, pleading, etc. -- many people cave in. Pushing through that is where living begins. It is where you take your life back. It is where recovery begins. The majority of recovery starts out on a road that is not easy to go down -- because it is uncomfortable.
Obviously each person chooses how and when they want to get better, make progress, make change. However, the potential of we can get back -- comes with a price. It comes with effort. It is not easy. It is not supposed to be easy -- because what we are gaining is so great.
My perspective is I want to hear what someone thinks. I want to hear their bottom line, no BS, hard core experience, wisdom, and what their thinking is. It is up to ME if I want to do that or not. It is up to ME as to whatever I do or don't do. If that's the crux of your argument -- then that's simply saying today is Tuesday. Factually correct, but of no help.
If a person doesn't make effort, doesn't make change, etc. -- then, I think, depdending on their circumstances, in all likeligood, no, the miracle won't occur. They will not get better. Or they will vis a vis denial. If that's OK for you, that's fine. But one can't say why am I am not getting better if one is not taking action and making change. I've long said -- you don't get better by going to meetings. You get better by going to meetings, learning, AND THEN TAKING ACTION AND MAKING CHANGE. Knowing the alanon program is the first hurdle. Understand the mindset, the philosophy, the methodology in and around that root knowledge is important as well. That's the second hurdle. Lastly -- it takes action. It is some action. Changing the way you react is action. It is change. Changing your thinking is an action, it is change. That takes YOU doing something. The program doesn't do it for you.
My sponsor is the most gentle, caring, warm, loving individual I've ever met. Yet, he can add accountability and objectivity to the mix as well as anyone. Does that make him not gentle? No. People who don't want to do what it takes to get better sometimes think so. He has said things to me -- when being objective and holding me accountable, some may say "calling me out" so to speak -- that have been not what I wanted to hear. They have sometimes hurt -- only because sometimes the truth hurts. Sometimes it has to hurt. Does that make him not gentle? When the doctor tells you that you are dying, does that make him not gentle? Well, he can do it in a caring, gentle, kind, compassion way...or not. Being the delivery person of something someone doesn't want to hear can be done in a gentle way...but sometimes you need to say it like it is. And it it not being or coming from a place of "not gentle" -- it is coming from a very different place, even though it might be blunt.
You can't go around it...you can't go under it...and you can't go over it...you have to go through it.
And, thanks Rose.
It is also style. Some people express themselves very well in the eyes of others. Other people don't. Some are verbose, and some are succinct. A dead medium compounds much of that. Are there mean people here? Nasty people? Angry people? Bitter? Scorned? Tall? Short? And so on? I think so, but that is irrelevant. What is tantamount -- is that -- alanon is a gentle program.
From the self perspective -- getting better means something. If you are not healthy, not well, etc. -- then getting better will always involve change. It will involve doing something that is not part of what's become your "norm" so to speak. Change, making change, all that goes along with it, can be -- uncomfortable, difficult, painful, not easy, can cause anxiety, angst, anger, sadness, it can and probably will have reactions, comments, thoughts, etc., from others...all of that. Yes, when you make change, when you feel uncomfortable...that's when you start getting better.
It was a great conversation to have last night, and for those of you who go to meetings, it might be worthwhile chatting about it. It was very interesting, thought provoking, and hearing others' perspective was excellent.