For me that doesn't work anymore and I'll tell you why. When I got into Al-Anon there was me with my stinking thinking attitude and major EGO smart ass attitude and my loud commanding act out and plain old "dumb as a stick" presence. I didn't know and didn't know anything; not even the basics or anything else I didn't even know that I was coming from hurt, pain and anger which I resisted openly. I often was the only male in the rooms and somewhat often was asked to correct my behavior or leave. The few times I had the courage to get up and head for the door before I reached the knob I always heard, "and Keep coming back" which always softened my toughness and caused me to retake my seat. A time or two I would be scolded with a few cuss words mixed in and still the "and keep coming back". I come close to tears with those memories.
And then I realized that most often my Higher Powers were women...females. I was being touched with tough love and of course it worked and I got use to it and would later always accept love that way. One of my meeting sisters once told me after a meeting, "You know Jerry you are the most arrogant son of a bitch I have ever met". I responded "Give me a few days to think about that. I know what a bitch is and my mom certainly isn't one and I have to learn what arrogant is so I can understand who it is your are talking about". I did an inventory on the word arrogant and she was correct!! and I could change that part and did.
Not long after I accepted that many if not most of the Higher Power instruments in my life were women and that I was grateful beyond words. My respect and honor of the women in my life grew bigger and today still when I speak of and to Higher Power my expectations often are fulfilled by the female in recovery. Yes it is completed here also as the majority of the membership is again the lady in recovery. Thank you God dess. lol (((hugs)))
just a side note? My mother also I believed that the women of Al-Anon gave her the son she always wanted. Go figure.
-- Edited by JerryF on Sunday 12th of August 2018 10:24:13 PM
hotrod said
Aug 12, 2018
((JerryF)) great insights
DavidG said
Aug 13, 2018
Kia ora... with you on that one M8... ...
JerryF said
Aug 13, 2018
Isn't that something David? I don't count it as luck but a miracle. It is sooo opposite and different than many of the other experiences I have heard in the fellowship that I count it as one of my miracles. I don't know if I will live long enough to repay the debt. Lots of the time I wonder "why didn't they just blow be off and kick me out of the fellowship when I deserved it" and then I can hear my Higher Power whisper, "that is not what I wanted for us...you and me". Today I would not, could not turn my back on a female newcomer who was attracted some to my experiences with HP especially my prayer, "Place me where you want me...tell me what to do" Don't even know her name...is that really important in the end? listening now.
mamalioness said
Aug 13, 2018
WOW!!! ((((((Jerry)))))) Here I am eating a snack and getting ready for bed and you just told me the most beautiful bedtime story and it is REAL.........Loved your post....Thank You
Iamhere said
Aug 13, 2018
Great share Jerry....I haven't given much thought to he/she only because I find HP speaks to me through each encounter in my life. My first exposure to recovery came from the 'other side of the house' and I was a young woman in a setting with more males than females. Some were gruff and unpolished and some were kind and gentle yet they all carried the same message to me - one of recovery brings wholeness, sanity and joy to those who want it.
I was divorced from the religious teachings of my youth, and was rebellious enough that the word God and even the phrase Higher Power caused me anger and internal discomfort. One gruff man once said, "I don't care if you look at that door knob and believe it has more power than you..." - you have to just believe in any power greater than self to counter the ego magnified by this disease. That made more sense to me and so my journey began.
What I know and don't know today isn't much different than when I first arrived. I know when I am restless, irritable or discontent, there is something in me that's out of alignment. If I turn to my recovery, which I consider spiritual based, and reach out to a program friend, sponsor, here or just in meditation, I get what I need. Each avenue I travel gives me guidance that I find comes from HP - in many forms and many ways.
I am grateful that I surround myself with healthy minded persons. I no longer believe any event in my life was a mistake or a mis-step - instead I view them as part of my journey that carries me closer to who I am to be so long as I keep trusting in any power greater than self. I am eternally grateful that HP put those in my life at the right time to carry me until I could walk. It has happened over and over again, and I too am humbled when looking back at the journey. Grateful you are part of it too!!
DavidG said
Aug 13, 2018
JerryF wrote:
Don't even know her name...is that really important in the end? listening now.
Yes... the gender "him" in the steps went to the Alanon WSO conference and they stuck with the status quo.
Parts of the USA community have strong church affiliations- unlike the rest of the world. And dealing with the higher power issue can be tricky. Some professional agencies will not refer at all- for this reason.
We do know the truth- it is spiritual, not religious.
We move away from black and white thinking- 'my way, or the highway'.
For me "him" is still a part of who Hp is...
but of course- not the only part... ...
Jayla said
Aug 13, 2018
I have always thought that the main acts of HP are creative actscreating the universe, everything in it, universal laws etc. And creating life is more of a female attribute I think. Therefore I have never found it a stretch to think of the Creator as female. If you are Christian and believe in Jesus, Ive always thought he had to be male or the culture he was in at the time would have never listened to him. But perhaps if he had come today instead of back then, he could have very well taken a female form. God is a spirit and a spirit has no gender. Perhaps having no gender means it is free to possess attributes of both. I think about these kinds of things. Glad someone else is too!
mamalioness said
Aug 14, 2018
Jayla wrote:
I have always thought that the main acts of HP are creative actscreating the universe, everything in it, universal laws etc. And creating life is more of a female attribute I think. Therefore I have never found it a stretch to think of the Creator as female. If you are Christian and believe in Jesus, Ive always thought he had to be male or the culture he was in at the time would have never listened to him. But perhaps if he had come today instead of back then, he could have very well taken a female form. God is a spirit and a spirit has no gender. Perhaps having no gender means it is free to possess attributes of both. I think about these kinds of things. Glad someone else is too!
Ohhh (((((((Jayla))))))) I think EXACTLY as you do.....I struggled all my life with this "male gender" remote, outside diety..I pictured a harsh guy with a long beard with a big club, ready to smash me if I messed up because that is what I was TAUGHT...Oh yea, and G-d told him to teach his daughter about sex....Yea, right!!! WTH wants a G-d like that??? So I began studying and reading metaphysical approach, reading Schin and Bloodworth, 2 very good metaphysicians who did belive in Creator (so do I) and they actually hinted at that Christ had to be a man because of the times he was in...Now??? he could have been a she.....but no gender....just pure spirit.....creating the universe...and universal law, aka good karma or bad...(our choice to make either) and of good health, prosperity and love and self expression for all......and because I am a part of the universe, one of its children and so therefore having a part of that divine creation in me......and IF I ever hope to connect to and benefit from this HP, I need to do as Buddha did and that is meditatiion and focusing on my body, connecting with me and my highest self....which is what I am about to do before I go to bed...just "chillax" sometimes I get on one of my work out machines and blast my tunes and toss off the negative energy that way....just don't fight it, toss it off me...send it back to its source because I refuse to own negative....(LOTS of stuff going wrong of late--so I am resisting and fighting...hard to stop old habits, but I am gonna keep practicing) anyway, that is my take on the HP thingy....its all spiritual, never religious...I don't support organized religion...too much of man and his ego and control for my taste.....
But I just had to tell you i ABSOLUTELY LOVE your post............
MeTwo2 said
Aug 14, 2018
thanks for your share Jerry. I love our tradition 2 .. as the traditions remind us there remains only one hp expressing Thru each member. I am grateful for a spiritual program because ive learned the majority of my very human problems need very spiritual solutions. funny in this moment it near seems ironic sometimes to go to wso to change a program that calls for acceptance and honest open willing searching inside us .. believe today the Real miracle whenever traditions are followed is the learning to keep an open mind .. heart.. to accept whats real for ourselves along with whats real for others realising there is no right no wrong .. theres layers and layers of experience only. whats right for one may not be right for another and thats never wrong an vice versa .. merely the reality according to some there is a he according to others there is no he but at the end of it all there remains a we which is better than me .. very grateful for a program of mutual acceptance and more than grateful youve been a small part of my journey with many meaningful experiences to share .. its really good to see you. your shares .. every one of them .. have helped me on differant layers an so many others .. ((( serenity wishes an hugs )))
JerryF said
Aug 14, 2018
This is the family I consider my own. It is so very unlike the family of origin I was born into and then years later had to separate myself from. I don't believe HP objected to that movement because of the wise and loving experiences I have been given which restored my mind, body, spirit and emotions back to health. I have come to understand where as at the start I came without any understanding and didn't even understand I was lacking.. "If you keep and open mind...you will find help" is repeated at the end of everyone of our face to face meetings. Now I stay obedient to the suggestions. Thank you all each and every one. ((((hugs))))
hotrod said
Aug 14, 2018
Hi All one final thought on this subject I believe in the world of the "Spirit" sexual identity is not important
el-cee said
Aug 14, 2018
I've been thinking about this lately too. I believe my higher power is bigger than gender. I find myself often thinking if him as a man a bit like Santa Claus. It's like the god if my childhood but I get the feeling lately God is much more than that. More like his is nature in every living and non living thing everywhere and everything and I get the feeling if I feel and connect with this power then it's in people men wo men children trees butterflies and it can be easier to connect using him sometimes. I think it's amazing that I even have god a God of my own understanding x your pretty special yourself Jerry and defo sent from my higher power to me over the yrs.x
-- Edited by el-cee on Tuesday 14th of August 2018 07:04:20 PM
mamalioness said
Aug 14, 2018
hotrod wrote:
Hi All one final thought on this subject I believe in the world of the "Spirit" sexual identity is not important
dear Queen Betty...I love how you can say on one sentence what it takes me a paragraph or two to say XO
MeTwo2 said
Aug 20, 2018
I too have always loved bettys ability to say so much in such a simple way. for me i just try to remember .. whats important to me isnt necessarily whats important to another and vice versa. not sure thats the most important. we all have different views .. we take what we like leave the rest. thats how we work. alcoholism on the other hand is a selfish disease. we read we parallel the alcs.. and growing up in an alcoholic situation seems many times when something is important to the alcoholic suddenly whats important to others is less important. so i try to remember whats most important .. the love of the fellowship among members. .. acceptance serenity unity hope love and keeping an open mind heart. how else can we be honest open safe and free to explore whats right for us personally. its never one right wrong view . its one hp growing the love an freedom in al .. from absolute judgments separations targeting pitting and more. we keep an open mind to hp opening our minds hearts growing our understanding. i have a long ways to grow. grateful for this and every thread and each person who shares.
learning theres real value in you may be right .. who are we to know for sure ... so many perceptions but one hp in center .. one Loving authority who knows for sure .. only thing we can be sure of is growing will continue until we get to the point of knowing. when that happens we hit the bump in the road. we lose our humility along with our unity.
no criticism or judge in my reply. love every al member. cumulative shares wisdom experience. thank you for sharing so much.
MeTwo2 said
Aug 20, 2018
.... phone shared twice and i couldnt delete .. so left dots and this instead .. serenity wishes or us all.
-- Edited by MeTwo2 on Monday 20th of August 2018 06:16:55 PM
Bo said
Aug 20, 2018
I always invite the opportunity to hear others opinion, perspective, and especially knowledge. Be that as it may, as it relates to this topic -- here, in this forum, and in the alanon program -- my feelings and my experience on this is that alanon is a spiritual program, not a religious one. It is one of the principles of the alanon program. The reference to a HP, or God, as we understood "him" is not a religious orientation. If someone makes it one, that is their prerogative. However, what that means to me is that it is gender-less, or gender-preferred. That's just me. However, for anyone else, of course it is still in the eye of the beholder.
This is an alanon forum and while we don't adhere to the principles or guidelines of a conference approved alanon meeting or forum -- one thing that is constant, whether it's "official" alanon or not -- and that is, that this, is an alanon forum.
If someone wants to incorporate God, into their recovery, vis a vis religion, that is certainly their prerogative. The same is true about religion. Alanon does not incorporate religion. An individual can. For themselves, on their own as it is not part of alanon. That being said, God is referred to in our steps. As part of a spiritual program. A Higher Power is not, or at least to some it is, to the extent, in Step 2 -- "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."
God, is specifically referred to in the following steps:
Step 3 -- "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him"
Step 5 -- "Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs"
Step 6 -- "Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character"
Step 7 -- "Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings"
Step 11 -- "Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out"
Be that as it may -- whoever one sees, feels, incorporates, or whatever you want it, as their Higher Power, is of course their prerogative. If it is gender non-specific, so be it. If it is not, so be it as well.
MeTwo2 said
Aug 21, 2018
well shared bo. true. even when it comes to alanon opening or closing prayers .. al is not church. 'none of it should matter. if we try to keep an open mind heart we will learn much .. about ourselves .. love the honest sharings in al and that we can share open with many and manage to keep the love in the fellowship 'between us.
For me that doesn't work anymore and I'll tell you why. When I got into Al-Anon there was me with my stinking thinking attitude and major EGO smart ass attitude and my loud commanding act out and plain old "dumb as a stick" presence. I didn't know and didn't know anything; not even the basics or anything else I didn't even know that I was coming from hurt, pain and anger which I resisted openly. I often was the only male in the rooms and somewhat often was asked to correct my behavior or leave. The few times I had the courage to get up and head for the door before I reached the knob I always heard, "and Keep coming back" which always softened my toughness and caused me to retake my seat. A time or two I would be scolded with a few cuss words mixed in and still the "and keep coming back". I come close to tears with those memories.
And then I realized that most often my Higher Powers were women...females. I was being touched with tough love and of course it worked and I got use to it and would later always accept love that way. One of my meeting sisters once told me after a meeting, "You know Jerry you are the most arrogant son of a bitch I have ever met". I responded "Give me a few days to think about that. I know what a bitch is and my mom certainly isn't one and I have to learn what arrogant is so I can understand who it is your are talking about". I did an inventory on the word arrogant and she was correct!! and I could change that part and did.
Not long after I accepted that many if not most of the Higher Power instruments in my life were women and that I was grateful beyond words. My respect and honor of the women in my life grew bigger and today still when I speak of and to Higher Power my expectations often are fulfilled by the female in recovery. Yes it is completed here also as the majority of the membership is again the lady in recovery. Thank you God dess. lol (((hugs)))
just a side note? My mother also I believed that the women of Al-Anon gave her the son she always wanted. Go figure.
-- Edited by JerryF on Sunday 12th of August 2018 10:24:13 PM
Kia ora... with you on that one M8...
...
Isn't that something David? I don't count it as luck but a miracle. It is sooo opposite and different than many of the other experiences I have heard in the fellowship that I count it as one of my miracles. I don't know if I will live long enough to repay the debt. Lots of the time I wonder "why didn't they just blow be off and kick me out of the fellowship when I deserved it" and then I can hear my Higher Power whisper, "that is not what I wanted for us...you and me". Today I would not, could not turn my back on a female newcomer who was attracted some to my experiences with HP especially my prayer, "Place me where you want me...tell me what to do" Don't even know her name...is that really important in the end? listening now.
I was divorced from the religious teachings of my youth, and was rebellious enough that the word God and even the phrase Higher Power caused me anger and internal discomfort. One gruff man once said, "I don't care if you look at that door knob and believe it has more power than you..." - you have to just believe in any power greater than self to counter the ego magnified by this disease. That made more sense to me and so my journey began.
What I know and don't know today isn't much different than when I first arrived. I know when I am restless, irritable or discontent, there is something in me that's out of alignment. If I turn to my recovery, which I consider spiritual based, and reach out to a program friend, sponsor, here or just in meditation, I get what I need. Each avenue I travel gives me guidance that I find comes from HP - in many forms and many ways.
I am grateful that I surround myself with healthy minded persons. I no longer believe any event in my life was a mistake or a mis-step - instead I view them as part of my journey that carries me closer to who I am to be so long as I keep trusting in any power greater than self. I am eternally grateful that HP put those in my life at the right time to carry me until I could walk. It has happened over and over again, and I too am humbled when looking back at the journey. Grateful you are part of it too!!
Yes... the gender "him" in the steps went to the Alanon WSO conference and they stuck with the status quo.
Parts of the USA community have strong church affiliations- unlike the rest of the world. And dealing with the higher power issue can be tricky. Some professional agencies will not refer at all- for this reason.
We do know the truth- it is spiritual, not religious.
We move away from black and white thinking- 'my way, or the highway'.
For me "him" is still a part of who Hp is...
but of course- not the only part...
...
Ohhh (((((((Jayla))))))) I think EXACTLY as you do.....I struggled all my life with this "male gender" remote, outside diety..I pictured a harsh guy with a long beard with a big club, ready to smash me if I messed up because that is what I was TAUGHT...Oh yea, and G-d told him to teach his daughter about sex....Yea, right!!! WTH wants a G-d like that??? So I began studying and reading metaphysical approach, reading Schin and Bloodworth, 2 very good metaphysicians who did belive in Creator (so do I) and they actually hinted at that Christ had to be a man because of the times he was in...Now??? he could have been a she.....but no gender....just pure spirit.....creating the universe...and universal law, aka good karma or bad...(our choice to make either) and of good health, prosperity and love and self expression for all......and because I am a part of the universe, one of its children and so therefore having a part of that divine creation in me......and IF I ever hope to connect to and benefit from this HP, I need to do as Buddha did and that is meditatiion and focusing on my body, connecting with me and my highest self....which is what I am about to do before I go to bed...just "chillax" sometimes I get on one of my work out machines and blast my tunes and toss off the negative energy that way....just don't fight it, toss it off me...send it back to its source because I refuse to own negative....(LOTS of stuff going wrong of late--so I am resisting and fighting...hard to stop old habits, but I am gonna keep practicing) anyway, that is my take on the HP thingy....its all spiritual, never religious...I don't support organized religion...too much of man and his ego and control for my taste.....
But I just had to tell you i ABSOLUTELY LOVE your post............
thanks for your share Jerry. I love our tradition 2 .. as the traditions remind us there remains only one hp expressing Thru each member. I am grateful for a spiritual program because ive learned the majority of my very human problems need very spiritual solutions. funny in this moment it near seems ironic sometimes to go to wso to change a program that calls for acceptance and honest open willing searching inside us .. believe today the Real miracle whenever traditions are followed is the learning to keep an open mind .. heart.. to accept whats real for ourselves along with whats real for others realising there is no right no wrong .. theres layers and layers of experience only. whats right for one may not be right for another and thats never wrong an vice versa .. merely the reality according to some there is a he according to others there is no he but at the end of it all there remains a we which is better than me .. very grateful for a program of mutual acceptance and more than grateful youve been a small part of my journey with many meaningful experiences to share .. its really good to see you. your shares .. every one of them .. have helped me on differant layers an so many others .. ((( serenity wishes an hugs )))
This is the family I consider my own. It is so very unlike the family of origin I was born into and then years later had to separate myself from. I don't believe HP objected to that movement because of the wise and loving experiences I have been given which restored my mind, body, spirit and emotions back to health. I have come to understand where as at the start I came without any understanding and didn't even understand I was lacking.. "If you keep and open mind...you will find help" is repeated at the end of everyone of our face to face meetings. Now I stay obedient to the suggestions. Thank you all each and every one. ((((hugs))))
I've been thinking about this lately too. I believe my higher power is bigger than gender. I find myself often thinking if him as a man a bit like Santa Claus. It's like the god if my childhood but I get the feeling lately God is much more than that. More like his is nature in every living and non living thing everywhere and everything and I get the feeling if I feel and connect with this power then it's in people men wo men children trees butterflies and it can be easier to connect using him sometimes. I think it's amazing that I even have god a God of my own understanding x your pretty special yourself Jerry and defo sent from my higher power to me over the yrs.x
-- Edited by el-cee on Tuesday 14th of August 2018 07:04:20 PM
dear Queen Betty...I love how you can say on one sentence what it takes me a paragraph or two to say XO
I too have always loved bettys ability to say so much in such a simple way. for me i just try to remember .. whats important to me isnt necessarily whats important to another and vice versa. not sure thats the most important. we all have different views .. we take what we like leave the rest. thats how we work. alcoholism on the other hand is a selfish disease. we read we parallel the alcs.. and growing up in an alcoholic situation seems many times when something is important to the alcoholic suddenly whats important to others is less important. so i try to remember whats most important .. the love of the fellowship among members. .. acceptance serenity unity hope love and keeping an open mind heart. how else can we be honest open safe and free to explore whats right for us personally. its never one right wrong view . its one hp growing the love an freedom in al .. from absolute judgments separations targeting pitting and more. we keep an open mind to hp opening our minds hearts growing our understanding. i have a long ways to grow. grateful for this and every thread and each person who shares.
learning theres real value in you may be right .. who are we to know for sure ... so many perceptions but one hp in center .. one Loving authority who knows for sure .. only thing we can be sure of is growing will continue until we get to the point of knowing. when that happens we hit the bump in the road. we lose our humility along with our unity.
.... phone shared twice and i couldnt delete .. so left dots and this instead .. serenity wishes or us all.
-- Edited by MeTwo2 on Monday 20th of August 2018 06:16:55 PM
This is an alanon forum and while we don't adhere to the principles or guidelines of a conference approved alanon meeting or forum -- one thing that is constant, whether it's "official" alanon or not -- and that is, that this, is an alanon forum.
If someone wants to incorporate God, into their recovery, vis a vis religion, that is certainly their prerogative. The same is true about religion. Alanon does not incorporate religion. An individual can. For themselves, on their own as it is not part of alanon. That being said, God is referred to in our steps. As part of a spiritual program. A Higher Power is not, or at least to some it is, to the extent, in Step 2 -- "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."
God, is specifically referred to in the following steps:
Step 3 -- "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him"
Step 5 -- "Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs"
Step 6 -- "Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character"
Step 7 -- "Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings"
Step 11 -- "Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out"
Be that as it may -- whoever one sees, feels, incorporates, or whatever you want it, as their Higher Power, is of course their prerogative. If it is gender non-specific, so be it. If it is not, so be it as well.